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Clarity is so hard to find...


The Other Man / Woman The other side of the story: Support and discussion for those who find themselves involved with a committed partner.

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Old 15th June 2017, 11:56 AM   #61
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She has this loong thread that you are stringed to...from another room she just pulls it whenever she likes and feels happy seeing you come with the thread.

Wonder how she will feel when one day the thread comes to her all the way and she discovers that nothing is attached to it....

She knows she isnt going to be serious with you, she knows what you want and she knows you wont get it ( its her, not you)...then why just string you along?... bigger thought : why get stringed along?
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Old 15th June 2017, 12:39 PM   #62
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You don't understand why she wasn't responding to your texts? I can explain. First, no evidence. If she responded in the manner of lovers it would be clear evidence of an affair. She probably couldn't get time alone and undistracted to sanitize her phone, so she was avoiding incriminating herself just in case. Second, she really is busy getting herself and her husband ready for their trip.

This isn't going to change. If you stay in contact with her you'll always have​ to watch from the sidelines while she lives her real life with her husband and family. It's masochistic. Don't. Please.
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Old 15th June 2017, 1:39 PM   #63
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MJ,

Thanks for the advice. FWIW, when I say "text," I mean Snapchat. That has been our primary means of written communication for months because of the self-deleting feature. It was getting annoying and, she said, emotionally difficult for her to delete the sweet and intimate texts that she loved receiving from me.


In this case, just ignoring it and responding with something totally unrelated seemed like an unequivocal "you are dirt to me."


Though I do believe she was legit super busy - she got about four hours of sleep last night as she's also managing her parents' move to another state - and I don't hold her being busy against her, I don't understand why she can't either send me a kiss back or tell me she's going to miss me or *anythig* that doesn't take any more thought than the small talk she decided to make instead. She does send texts/snaps almost daily asking how my studying is going, what I'm up to, but it's all very platonic.


It just makes me feel marginalized. I think it's just as others have suggested. I'm a fun toy when she has both time and the inclination. Otherwise I'm not even a blip on her radar, not even a thought in her head. I have given her too much credit thinking she's all tortured and guilty and believing her tears when she would cry in my arms. What an actress! What a liar!
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Old 15th June 2017, 3:34 PM   #64
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Honey, you ARE marginalized. Being marginalized is part and parcel of the OW/OM gig. It's that " know your role" thing. I don't doubt she cares about you, but she cares about herself, her husband, her lifestyle, and her reputation far more.

She's not so much an actress as a drama queen. The drama if it all is part of the affair fantasy.

In her mind, she's been honest with you about her intentions, she's even advised you date and she is doing the friend push-lover pull because she thinks that will somehow establish a boundary that keeps you in your place. It's also how she absolves herself of guilt over you because, hey, you knew what you were getting into and volunteered for it.

She's not evil, just toxic to you.
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Old 15th June 2017, 10:17 PM   #65
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I hate myself for loving her, for letting her do this to me, for believing anything she ever told me, for believing I was ever going to be enough for her to walk away from everything else she has. And now I hate myself for wanting her to hurt, to feel an inkling of the pain she's caused me. But no, she's living it up with the H she chooses every day, will always choose over me. Her life is just fine while mine falls apart. She's laughing as I cry. She's just fine. She will ALWAYS be just fine because she's a liar who never gave a damn about me, who never will. I could be found dead in a ditch and she'd just feel relief that her secrets will never be spilled.

You're all absolutely right. She TOLD ME. She made it clear. Except for the times she didn't. She told me to see other people... and that she would never be able to stop wanting me. She told me she would probably never leave her marriage... and that she loved me deeply. She told me she knew she was being selfish and was no good for me... and that she couldn't pretend not to have feelings, that she loved everything about me, especially my heart. She told me we were a friendship first and foremost... and that she could talk to me in ways she'd never felt safe talking to her husband.

And she knew how I felt, I told her I was in love with her and wanted to spend the rest of my life with her. She listened, but she still went ahead and put me in a specific box and took me in and out to suit her whims. I let it all happen. I want to blame her, but this is my fault.

The sickest part? All she'd have to do is look at me with those beautiful eyes, apologize, and I'd take her right back. I need to prepare for the eventual small-talk, casual snaps she's going to send me from her vacation. I need to prepare for her request for a casual hang-out when she gets back. I used to think this was because she *does* value my friendship. Now I don't know. Maybe she's trying to keep me from hating her so she doesn't have to worry I'll start telling people. Or maybe that's never crossed her mind because she knows I'm as loyal to her as she's never been to me.

I've thought about unfriending her, about removing Snapchat from my phone... but I want to throw up every time I think about it. This woman has been my best friend for a long time, my lover for almost a year. To cut her off without a word, to ignore her when she inevitably tries to act like there's nothing wrong and we're still besties... it seems cruel. But you know, it isn't nearly as cruel as what she's done to me. Still I feel like that's the coward's way out, like she deserves an explanation.

And again... I still don't *want* to let her go. Right now I'm trying to make her a monster in my mind so that it might be remotely possible to start wanting a life without her. But she isn't a monster. She's just my monster. And the woman I love.

Last edited by BreakingWave; 16th June 2017 at 12:19 AM..
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Old 16th June 2017, 12:38 AM   #66
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BW, I am so sad to hear that you are going through such a hard time. I can tell that you love her deeply. I think it's easy to try to guess her motives and her heart for the way that she's been acting and treating you and although others may be right, only she really knows.

For myself, because I am married but fell for someone outside of my marriage, for myself and my MM I know it was full of internal conflict, guilt and turmoil for most of the relationship. I wonder if some of her actions are a result of her trying to create distance between you and her because part of her wants to hang on and the other part of her wants to let go. Like I said though, only she really knows.

I know you're feeling angry at her which is totally justified. And part of you wants to take the anger out on her and make decisions based on your anger. But I have this feeling that because you love her, I think decisions made out of love for her would resonate more with the person that you are. (Or maybe I'm projecting because that's how I made my decision!)

I think for me, I realized that the most loving thing I could do was to let my MM go. I'm not saying that decisions born out of anger are wrong, but I personally think that decisions born out of love are better ones, more thought out. And ultimately you should love yourself and take care of you and your needs.

Thinking of you tonight. Take care of yourself!
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Old 16th June 2017, 8:35 PM   #67
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She may be worried about you telling other people but it's just as likely that she is trying to give you just enough to keep you so you will be there when she wants you. Or maybe she really is trying to shift you back into the realm of just a friend, which shows that it is not as painful for her as it is for you. If it helps you to think of her as not caring about it at all, then that is probably for the best.

You don't have to ghost her or cut her off, but you need to make sure you are strong enough to have the talk and stick to it. It sounds like she is persuasive so it may be easier to not have it in person. I think honesty is the best and if she truly cares about you, she will respect your wishes enough to let you go and not manipulate you into staying with her. You can explain that it causes too much turmoil for you to be with someone who won't be with you fully, that you don't find it easy to see others while you are seeing her and that you need to let go of your relationship for the sake of your health. And if she tries to keep you from doing that, it will be a reminder that she cares more about herself.

Your friendship may not survive, but that is often the case when friendships turn more physical or romantic. Better to lose a friend than lose yourself completely.
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Old 16th June 2017, 11:54 PM   #68
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Thanks, Honeytomb. I think the worst part is I don't want to let her go at all. I know it is the smart, healthy thing. I get all the reasons I am supposed to want it. But I just don't. I have a feeling she's made that decision for us again. Whether her mind will change yet again, I have no idea. I do think you got it exactly right when you said she doesn't care as much as I do.
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Old 17th June 2017, 11:24 AM   #69
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Baby steps

Today I removed Facebook, Instagram, and Snapchat from my phone. The first two so that I won't be tempted to look at her vacation pictures all the time (though, to her credit, she isn't posting much at all and when she does, there's none of the crap about how much she adores H like there was last time. I expect with Father's Day tomorrow she'll lay it on thick and I just. don't. need. to. see. it.) I removed Snapchat because it's our primary form of communication. She hasn't bothered to say as much as "hello" for two days now, so I want to remove the temptation to answer her right away if she does indeed spare me a minute to see how I'm doing or what's up. I am planning to add Snapchat back tomorrow. If there's still no word, I'll take it off for two days, etc.

Is there a rhyme or reason here? Probably not, but I guess for me it's a small mental victory knowing I'm not setting myself up to be instantly available every time she decides to care.
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Old 18th June 2017, 10:41 PM   #70
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Great progress, BreakingWave. Small victories lead to bigger ones. Wishing you a peaceful week.
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Old 19th June 2017, 9:18 AM   #71
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Definitely a victory that you removed those apps from your phone! Was it helpful for you? How did your weekend go?
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Old 19th June 2017, 10:29 PM   #72
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One step forward, two steps back.

i wish I could say it was a peaceful weekend but it really wasn't. I told a friend who lives in another state about the situation a while ago. She has not been supportive and when I was crying about missing MW, she really laid into me about how I must have known this was coming and that it would never work out. I said she was kicking me while I was down, and she became so upset with me. The next two hours was basically a long list of everything I've ever done wrong and I think I'm losing a very close friend as well.

As far as MW, I eventually reinstalled the apps on Sunday night, after more than three days of silence. I waited a few hours to open her first text when it came through on Sunday evening, because I kind of already knew it would be a very casual, meaningless message, and it was. "Hi, how are you, this place is great," etc. Just completely blew past the awkward conversation we'd ended things on before she left. I don't really want to have a hostile text conversation while she's on vacation, either, so I waited until the next morning to respond with my own friendly but short message.

She's been posting lots of pictures of their trip to FB, but I guess what I said really registered because she's not doing any overly lovey dovey posts about her H. Just beautiful landscapes and a couple of photos of the two of them. That's made it less of a heartache to see them, but ultimately I know she's choosing to be there with him, that she is not choosomg to be with me.

She texted about the weather and having to buy a jacket. I just didn't respond. It isn't that I don't want to talk to her, I just got the feeling she was bored and I could have been anyone. She didn't say she missed me or give me any reason to feel as though she does. So... I decided not to get sucked into once again being the person she only talks to when she's bored.

My plan for self-preservation now is to step back as much as I possibly can make myself and let her chase me, or not. I'm done trying ten times harder than her, I'm done feeling humiliated. And if she's just texting to tell me it's cold, or ask me to hang out with her and H when she gets back (she wants me to go out on their new boat and, I guess, pretend I'm not in love with her while I watch her play happy couple with him) I am going to let her know that that's just not my idea of a good time.

Last edited by BreakingWave; 19th June 2017 at 10:34 PM.. Reason: Grammar/typos
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Old 20th June 2017, 10:24 AM   #73
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I actually think you are moving forward and that you should be proud of yourself. You allowed yourself to have space from her for a few days, and you're recognizing that you need to protect yourself. Definitely a step in the right direction! You deserve so much better than what she is offering you. I know it's hard to let go, especially since your friendship predates the affair but I think you're seeing how it's affecting you negatively and you're starting to put up boundaries.

Thanks for your encouragement on my thread. It means a lot to me to have a non-judgmental listening ear. I hope I can be the same for you!
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Old 20th June 2017, 5:29 PM   #74
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Hi BBS,

You certainly are that. I am so appreciative of you and the other wonderful people who are keeping up with my unfolding story. Today has been harder. This morning, I saw a notification that MW was typing a message - Snapchat actually lets you know the second someone starts texting you, and again once the message has been sent. Whatever she was typing, she either lost a connection or changed her mind, because eight hours later no message ever came. I finally decided it doesn't matter what happened - I have promised myself that she will have to work harder and I'm not going to reach out to her every day, even if I think of her every minute, which I still do. It might be a small measure of dignity but people will continue to treat us the way we allow them to, and I want her to go back to making more effort. If she doesn't want to, then that tells me what I need to know.


I can't see ever not wanting her or loving her. I know time is supposed to heal everything, but it's very hard for me to see life after this.
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Old 20th June 2017, 6:27 PM   #75
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Wow, BreakingWave, you are really in the thick of it.

I've read through most of your posts, though not quite all. The one about you texting her something sweet and loving and her responding with crap resonated with me. My xMM used to do that BS to me. It was very hurtful. You said you felt marginalized and MJJean very astutely pointed out it is because you ARE marginalized. I hope you can see that. You are fighting for something you don't have...won't have. She is managing you down with communication like that. You offer her kind and loving words...kisses and emotion...and she responds with small talk.

I remember saying something to my xMM one time about wishing I was on a trip with him. This was after HE had re-initiated contact with me (and I had previously been NC). My emotions were back and invested again. He had made a comment in passing about wanting me to be on the trip. And then I offered this sentiment. He ignored me for about 24 hours. And then he finally responded the next day with a load of bull about some stuff he did on the trip, completely glossing over my dangling heart.

But that was him, distancing himself. He regularly put me back in my place using communication (cold, no response, different subject, etc.).

Did he want me there for him, though? You bet.

It is very tempting to look at them as some kind of Machiavellian sadists. I think in reality, they are just very self-centered. They really love how we made them feel. They love us to the extent that they can. And they want to maintain the relationship, while being unable to give fully back. Even when told it's extremely painful for us, they hang on. But I also learned part of that is my responsibility. Because if it is THAT painful, I needed to uphold my own boundaries and walk away. By telling him it hurts and I don't like that kind of relationship, but letting him do it anyway, he eventually thought I've gotten over it...that I was accepting his terms.

Your MW may be thinking the same thing of you.

You obviously have a lot of love to give. I do hope you find someone more worthy. Eventually you will see that she's not the one. I just don't know if you're totally ready. Sometimes, it takes more hurt to get there.
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