What is BS thinking?!

[ThinkMore]

Let me start by saying everyone involved is older, in our 50s, and no kids are involved. We have all previously been in long term marriages and divorced.

 

It's a long story and I'll warn you now I hold some unconventional views. I'm hoping to hear from open-minded people who can think outside the box.

 

MM is on his second marriage, 3 years now. The first year was great apparently, but then he had to move 3,000 miles away for work. Circumstances are such that he will have to continue living that far away for the foreseeable future. He is able to go home for a short few weeks a year with several months between visits.

 

W can't move out here because MM owns a small business that she runs and it requires her full attention. She treats it like her own, devotes her life to it and it makes her very happy. He has to stay out here to earn enough money to keep the business afloat. Soon the legal and financial obligations that have been a burden will finally be fulfilled so that it will start to return on their investment. It won't be enough to support them living on the income though so he can't return home. She has never drawn a wage from the business. He supports her.

 

Given the great distance and infrequent visits the marriage suffered. Well, MM suffered. BS is happy as a clam. Every time he tried to discuss the relationship she refused to participate. Everything was fine according to her, thus nothing to discuss.

 

MM was terribly distressed. So he went looking for a friend and lover, someone he could actually spend time with. He did not intend for it to lead to anything.

 

Enter me. I've been divorced for many years and involved in open relationships. Finding a compatible partner seemed hopeless. Eventually, after careful thought, I decided I wasn't responsible for other people's morals. I have a high sex drive and no difficulty separating sex from love. So I started seeing married men. I figured if they're going to cheat anyway, best do it with me because I would never poach a man from his wife.

 

The plan worked for a while between MM and I. But ever so slowly we fell in love. He couldn't pull away. R with his wife was a sham. When he'd visit home he'd spend his time repairing and maintaining business equipment and their house. W had a very full life without him and he felt like he was interrupting things by being there. W lost interest in sex.

 

He and I agreed that spilling news of the affair by phone was inappropriate. When he'd go home he tried to bring up the subject. No dice. Did I mention that in their years together they have never had a single argument? She hasn't uttered a word of complaint no matter what he does; things any normal person would have something to say about. She is all sweetness and light at all times. Everyone in their town loves her.

 

She holds very strong views on cheating. When she found her first H cheated she tossed him right out. MM and I have been together a year now. Despite the distance, all the signs have been blatantly obvious. She hasn't questioned a single one of his thinly veiled lies. He can't believe she doesn't see the obvious. He can't quite bring himself to blurt out the truth though. He can't see himself hurting her with such a statement. He has never spoken a negative word about her. He says she's a good person and hasn't done anything wrong.

 

On his last visit he made it abundantly clear he was unhappy with the marriage. He tried to discuss divorce with her, over and over. She told him not to leave her and refused to say another word. Dead silence every time.

 

I the meantime BS's best friend happens to be married to WS's best friend. He told his friend about me and swore him to silence. His DW could see the signs. And she knew that he knew. So she worked on him for months trying to get information on the A. In the face of overwhelming evidence he caved in, told her what he knew. She trotted straight over to BS to tell her all about it. She got upset briefly. Asked her friends for my name and phone number, which they didn't have. Then she decided the whole story was a fabrication. WS couldn't possibly be having an A. Strange that her friends would invent such a crazy story! And everything went back to normal between BS and WS.

 

Meanwhile it's eating at MM. He can't bear lying to her. He has no feelings left for her. And he realizes me knowing about his lying means I can't trust him that much. I don't believe in the need for marriage among older people so I would never marry him anyway. I can't let him live with me either because I am permanently disabled and could lose my disability pension. And besides I need a lot of time to rest alone due to my health. He does stay in my home for long stretches though. We're together as much as we can. My adult kids like him; my dog has adopted him in preference to me, and he's really helpful with things I can't do myself. He fits in perfectly with us.

 

Now that the obligations tying them both to the business are about to be fulfilled he's ready to travel the 3,000 miles to tell her the truth.

 

But given all her actions, does she even want to know? What can she possibly be thinking? Is she just blocking unwanted information from her conscious mind. Shouldn't it be bothering her on some level?

 

We really don't want to hurt her. I wouldn't mind them continuing things as is. Stay married. Just stop lying to her. But what do you do with someone who refuses to discuss anything? It's like she thinks as long as she doesn't talk nothing bad can happen. But seriously????

[purplesorrow]

Their marriage is none of your business. You only know his side. He doesn't need her permission to divorce. He can file and move on, it's not like he doesn't know how. What's stopping him?

[MJJean]

My short and sweet take on the situation.

 

The BW is burying her head in the sand because she likes having a husband and being supported by him so she can play all day at her hobby business that doesn't turn a profit.

 

MM is too much of spineless puss to simply file and end his "torment". This means the "torment" isn't that bad. If it was, he'd have filed by now. No discussion required. That's what process servers and lawyers are get paid to do.

 

He wants to stay married and be a martyr and she wants to turn a blind eye to her husband's adultery, well, whatever.

[startingagain15]

He needs to figure his stuff out. He doesn't have feelings for her anymore, but he's afraid to hurt her? It seems like BS is willing to live with the status quo, and her denying the affair is part of how she wants to do that. So maybe he is happy with the status quo too, with her running his business and keeping things under control, and he's too much of a coward to do anything else about it. And if he can't ever marry you or live with you full time, why should he bother to give up the wife? Seems like a pretty good situation for him.

[whichwayisup]

MM is a grown man acting like a child and playing a victim role. He also seems like a fantastic liar and manipulator as he is both his wife and YOU wrapped around his baby finger.

 

Instead of worrying and wondering what BS is thinking, focus on why you are with him and why you possibly think that he isn't fooling/lying to you. Many MM (and MW) are skilled liars.

 

Those who want to divorce, do so. They put together a plan and make it happen. Your MM seems to just want a marriage and someone on the side.

[minimariah]

But what do you do with someone who refuses to discuss anything?

 

sweetheart - you DIVORCE them. as simple as that.

 

this is how it looks like from her perspective: he isn't going anywhere. he's staying married to her even though they don't have any children together + their financial situation isn't bad. so he's staying married to her because he wants to. they live apart: to her - you're probably just a necessary booty call... someone to keep his bed warm when she can't or won't. so she figured... why bring up the affair? why even believe in it when it's so irrelevant to her life? seriously - why should she know...? NOTHING will change for her. so what would be the point of the additional stress? what is the point of telling her the truth?

 

to be honest -- i understand perfectly why the BS isn't doing a thing. she's good and happy. what i DON'T understand is why your MM ISN'T doing a thing. like, what is he waiting for? he is not a young man, this isn't his first marriage - so why is a simple act of breaking up such a difficult task for him?

 

if i was the BS - i wouldn't utter a damn word. i'd keep going about my life and i'd stay married. no way in hell should i give him or you the satisfaction of doing YOUR job. nuh-uh!

 

like... just DIVORCE. file and divorce. okay... money troubles, i get it. but he doesn't seem to plan to divorce AT ALL. and don't give me that - oh, i don't want to hurt her - crap. that's completely void. just go to the court and file and call it a day. why is that such a difficult thing to do for an already divorced man of 50 years with NOTHING real keeping him in the marriage? makes no sense whatsoever and i think you know that - and these feelings should really be directed at him... not her.

 

it's perfectly clear to me what's BS thinking. but God knows what's MM thinking!

Edited July 25, 2016 by minimariah

[Furious]

Let me start by saying everyone involved is older, in our 50s, and no kids are involved. We have all previously been in long term marriages and divorced.

 

It's a long story and I'll warn you now I hold some unconventional views. I'm hoping to hear from open-minded people who can think outside the box.

 

MM is on his second marriage, 3 years now. The first year was great apparently, but then he had to move 3,000 miles away for work. Circumstances are such that he will have to continue living that far away for the foreseeable future. He is able to go home for a short few weeks a year with several months between visits.

 

W can't move out here because MM owns a small business that she runs and it requires her full attention. She treats it like her own, devotes her life to it and it makes her very happy. He has to stay out here to earn enough money to keep the business afloat. Soon the legal and financial obligations that have been a burden will finally be fulfilled so that it will start to return on their investment. It won't be enough to support them living on the income though so he can't return home. She has never drawn a wage from the business. He supports her.

 

Given the great distance and infrequent visits the marriage suffered. Well, MM suffered. BS is happy as a clam. Every time he tried to discuss the relationship she refused to participate. Everything was fine according to her, thus nothing to discuss.

 

MM was terribly distressed. So he went looking for a friend and lover, someone he could actually spend time with. He did not intend for it to lead to anything.

 

Enter me. I've been divorced for many years and involved in open relationships. Finding a compatible partner seemed hopeless. Eventually, after careful thought, I decided I wasn't responsible for other people's morals. I have a high sex drive and no difficulty separating sex from love. So I started seeing married men. I figured if they're going to cheat anyway, best do it with me because I would never poach a man from his wife.

 

The plan worked for a while between MM and I. But ever so slowly we fell in love. He couldn't pull away. R with his wife was a sham. When he'd visit home he'd spend his time repairing and maintaining business equipment and their house. W had a very full life without him and he felt like he was interrupting things by being there. W lost interest in sex.

 

He and I agreed that spilling news of the affair by phone was inappropriate. When he'd go home he tried to bring up the subject. No dice. Did I mention that in their years together they have never had a single argument? She hasn't uttered a word of complaint no matter what he does; things any normal person would have something to say about. She is all sweetness and light at all times. Everyone in their town loves her.

 

She holds very strong views on cheating. When she found her first H cheated she tossed him right out. MM and I have been together a year now. Despite the distance, all the signs have been blatantly obvious. She hasn't questioned a single one of his thinly veiled lies. He can't believe she doesn't see the obvious. He can't quite bring himself to blurt out the truth though. He can't see himself hurting her with such a statement. He has never spoken a negative word about her. He says she's a good person and hasn't done anything wrong.

 

On his last visit he made it abundantly clear he was unhappy with the marriage. He tried to discuss divorce with her, over and over. She told him not to leave her and refused to say another word. Dead silence every time.

 

I the meantime BS's best friend happens to be married to WS's best friend. He told his friend about me and swore him to silence. His DW could see the signs. And she knew that he knew. So she worked on him for months trying to get information on the A. In the face of overwhelming evidence he caved in, told her what he knew. She trotted straight over to BS to tell her all about it. She got upset briefly. Asked her friends for my name and phone number, which they didn't have. Then she decided the whole story was a fabrication. WS couldn't possibly be having an A. Strange that her friends would invent such a crazy story! And everything went back to normal between BS and WS.

 

Meanwhile it's eating at MM. He can't bear lying to her. He has no feelings left for her. And he realizes me knowing about his lying means I can't trust him that much. I don't believe in the need for marriage among older people so I would never marry him anyway. I can't let him live with me either because I am permanently disabled and could lose my disability pension. And besides I need a lot of time to rest alone due to my health. He does stay in my home for long stretches though. We're together as much as we can. My adult kids like him; my dog has adopted him in preference to me, and he's really helpful with things I can't do myself. He fits in perfectly with us.

 

Now that the obligations tying them both to the business are about to be fulfilled he's ready to travel the 3,000 miles to tell her the truth.

 

But given all her actions, does she even want to know? What can she possibly be thinking? Is she just blocking unwanted information from her conscious mind. Shouldn't it be bothering her on some level?

 

We really don't want to hurt her. I wouldn't mind them continuing things as is. Stay married. Just stop lying to her. But what do you do with someone who refuses to discuss anything? It's like she thinks as long as she doesn't talk nothing bad can happen. But seriously????

 

Why don't you call her up and discuss it?

[loveisanaction]

You seem to have a very unhealthy interest concerning your married man's wife, pretty much all of your post is about what she's like, whether she knows, her character, her personality, how your married man feels about her, the state of their marriage. Your post is even titled about about what she's thinking.

 

If your married man wants a divorce he doesn't need his wife's permission to do so. If he doesn't love her anymore he can leave. He's not leaving because he doesn't want to.

 

..and why should he? You said it yourself that he can't live with you because you would lose your disability, this would then mean that he would have to get his own place and may be at his age he doesn't want to live alone.

 

Also, you said by him not telling his wife the truth concerning you and him that maybe's he's thinking that you can't trust him. Maybe he's not leaving his wife because he can't trust you either, you do have a history of sleeping with married men, he's not the first and he's probably thinking he won't be the last.

 

He said his wife is a good person and that she has done nothing wrong. In his mind, he might not have mind blowing sex with her but at least he can trust her.

[waterwoman]

I don't think divorce has to be a bilateral decision. if he wants to do it he can do it. She is going to be hurt and have her life disrupted anyway so being straightforward about it instead of cowardly would be much better.

[anika99]

I think he is lying to you even more than he is lying to his wife. His reasons for not divorcing make no sense. He's in the perfect situation to divorce as he doesn't even live in the same town as his wife and only visits her a few times a year. All he has to do is serve her with papers and stop visiting her. On the one hand you describe her as a woman who would be devastated by her husband leaving her and at the same time describe her as someone who wouldn't even notice her husband leaving her. This doesn't add up and I think your MM has you snowed pretty good.

 

Since you are happy being the OW and you can't even live with the MM anyways, why even care what the reason is for him remaining married? Why all this focus on his wife? How will knowing what the BS is thinking change anything for you? Your MM is staying married because he chooses to. What more is there to know?

[heartwhole]

There are many parts to your story that don't seem to add up.

 

For example, MM had a perfect opportunity to exit the marriage when their best friends told BW. You imagine that she simply refuses to accept reality, though in her previous marriage she was so against cheating that she ended it immediately. Conclusion: MM is a skilled liar who made sure to "explain away" the situation.

 

She hasn't questioned a single one of his thinly veiled lies. He can't believe she doesn't see the obvious.

 

So it's the wife's responsibility to assume that her husband is lying to her and to question what he tells her? And if she doesn't, then it's her fault that she's lied to and cheated on? I call this victim-blaming.

 

On his last visit he made it abundantly clear he was unhappy with the marriage. He tried to discuss divorce with her, over and over. She told him not to leave her and refused to say another word. Dead silence every time.

 

He's a grown man who has been divorced before, but she can force him to remain married to her by being silent? Conclusion: MM is a passive conflict avoider who is not having the same conversation his wife is having because he lacks communication skills and the ability to face conflict.

 

 

They've both divorced before. They know how it's done. If they wanted the marriage to be over, then a distance of 3,000 miles and a DD at the hands of their best friends would be the perfect catalyst to end the marriage. Conclusion: for some reason that none of us not in the marriage can fathom, they both want to remain married. MM has worked himself into a pickle but clearly lacks the communication and conflict resolution skills to resolve it. (Show me a man with good communication and conflict resolution skills, and I'll be you he's not having an affair.) So now he sits around stewing that BW accepts the little that he's giving her and his "thinly veiled" lies. It's a very sad situation all around.

 

If I had to guess, I'd bet that accepting a job 3,000 miles away and only visiting every few months were his way of passively escaping from the marriage. I don't know why; maybe he's a self-sabotaguer. Clearly he enjoys being a victim or else he wouldn't treat his wife so poorly and them blame her for accepting it. If you are expecting him to "make things right" then I am very afraid you will be disappointed. Odds are he'll be sharing with you the outrageous story of her refusing to accept that the marriage is over after this next discussion. And then you and he can marvel at how terrible it is for him to be stuck with the Big Bad Wolf (a woman who never argues, never complains that he visits rarely and moved far away, who gives him the benefit of the doubt and accepts what he tells her as truth) while the situation remains exactly as it is.

[anika99]

My short and sweet take on the situation.

 

The BW is burying her head in the sand because she likes having a husband and being supported by him so she can play all day at her hobby business that doesn't turn a profit.

 

MM is too much of spineless puss to simply file and end his "torment". This means the "torment" isn't that bad. If it was, he'd have filed by now. No discussion required. That's what process servers and lawyers are get paid to do.

 

He wants to stay married and be a martyr and she wants to turn a blind eye to her husband's adultery, well, whatever.

 

The BW is not playing at a hobby business. It is the MM's business that she is running for him. He made the choice to take on another job because he needed to finance his business that he left in his wife's care. He isn't financing his wife's "hobby", by the sounds of it she is working her ass off trying to make his business a success (of course it's really the wife's business as well even though the OP referred to it as though it solely belongs to the MM) and it sounds like the business is making a profit now but not enough to support both of them. This business is obviously important to the MM and that's why he took the job away from home, so that the business would survive. It's not like the BS is just a mindless housewife who is so caught up in her silly hobby that she is blind to her husband. I doubt that she has her head in the sand. She thinks she is working towards a common goal with her husband. He likes having his OW in one town for playtime and his wife in another town, running HIS business for him. He's got it made.

[ladydesigner]

Op I would read these forums thoroughly and you will begin to see you are not in a unique situation.

[MJJean]

The BW is not playing at a hobby business. It is the MM's business that she is running for him. He made the choice to take on another job because he needed to finance his business that he left in his wife's care. He isn't financing his wife's "hobby", by the sounds of it she is working her ass off trying to make his business a success (of course it's really the wife's business as well even though the OP referred to it as though it solely belongs to the MM) and it sounds like the business is making a profit now but not enough to support both of them. This business is obviously important to the MM and that's why he took the job away from home, so that the business would survive. It's not like the BS is just a mindless housewife who is so caught up in her silly hobby that she is blind to her husband. I doubt that she has her head in the sand. She thinks she is working towards a common goal with her husband. He likes having his OW in one town for playtime and his wife in another town, running HIS business for him. He's got it made.

 

It's actually technically THEIR business if it was started after they married.

 

 

Frankly, though, my opinion is if the business isn't turning enough of a profit to pay some bills, it's a hobby business. I don't care if she works 12 hours a day at it. If she isn't drawing a paycheck, it's a hobby business until profitable enough to at least pay a portion of their monthly expenses.

 

A theory of mine is that she is basically waiting until the business is profitable enough to pay her bills and then all hell will break loose, but we'll see.

[ThinkMore]

I'm not sure my post was clear. I don't want him to divorce her. Really I don't. I've been pretty clear about that. I know what kind of person he is. And it actually doesn't bother me because he suits my purposes just fine the way things are.

 

And he's been pretty honest about not trusting me on account of my past. It took us a long time to work through that. I don't trust him but I already said that. He's just not happy about me not trusting him.

 

Please respect my beliefs. I know I'm unconventional. But I held these beliefs long before I met MM. I appreciate that my views rub against the grain of what many here believe.

 

My post was about the BS because that's the issue I have a question about. The rest of it I don't have a problem with. I'm sorry if it sounded like either of us was blaming her.

 

Thank you to those of you who posted about the subject I have questions about.

[MuddyFootprints]

Maybe she doesn't think conventionally, either?

[minimariah]

I know I'm unconventional.

 

i'm not sure what exactly you're unconventional about; if he doesn't want or plan to divorce her - then what would be the point in telling her the truth? why do you care if he's lying to her if he suits your purposes just the way they are? you seem pretty conventional to me.

[rainbowsandkittens]

My guess is she's thinking: I didn't put 12 hour days into this business and get it to a point where it's finally profitable for him to try to take it away from me in a divorce. I have my own business and life and someone supporting me so why rock the boat?

 

I would guess that his thinking is: I didn't spend all this time away from my wife and supporting her from afar for us to divorce and me potentially have to split the business with her.

 

This arrangement works for both of them, clearly, or they would change it.

[Shadowburn]

Seems like an arrangement is working for all the three of you.

His wife is happy and busy with the business, obviously she doesn't mind they barely see each other.

He found you to fulfill whatever his needs are.

You seems to be ok with the way things are - you don't want to live with him and don't want to be married in general.

So why exactly does it matter what his wife thinks? Just curious.

[noelle303]

I'm not sure my post was clear. I don't want him to divorce her. Really I don't. I've been pretty clear about that. I know what kind of person he is. And it actually doesn't bother me because he suits my purposes just fine the way things are.

 

And he's been pretty honest about not trusting me on account of my past. It took us a long time to work through that. I don't trust him but I already said that. He's just not happy about me not trusting him.

 

Please respect my beliefs. I know I'm unconventional. But I held these beliefs long before I met MM. I appreciate that my views rub against the grain of what many here believe.

 

My post was about the BS because that's the issue I have a question about. The rest of it I don't have a problem with. I'm sorry if it sounded like either of us was blaming her.

 

Thank you to those of you who posted about the subject I have questions about.

 

The thing is, it sounds like you wanted her to leave him when she found out. Otherwise, you wouldn't be here wondering what is wrong with her and questioning her motives. You'd simply go on with the affair as it was.

 

I don't question the motives of my xMM's wife on why she decided to stay because that is their business and their life in which I have absolutely no interest.

 

Anyway, I personally don't have problems with unconventional beliefs. But we all have more than one dimension to our personality and I think this time you got caught in a pretty conventional OW story. You may have treated other relationships and partners in a certain way and with no emotions attached, but this is obviously different. It's different just by observing how invested you are in their marriage.

 

I think maybe you can reflect on how this MM is different and how you obviously want something more from him. And then ask yourself if there is ever a chance that you'll actually get it.

[Quiet Storm]

Some older women have low sex drives and just don't crave sex anymore. They can be content, happy and fulfilled by other parts of their lives- family, work, hobbies, etc.

 

If he's getting sex elsewhere and she doesn't want it from him anyway, it's possible she just doesn't care.

 

I actually believe there are more women like this out there than we think, but they keep it to themselves to avoid judgement. The conventional way of thinking is that a woman should feel betrayed, angry and hurt if her husband seeks sex elsewhere.

 

Even someone as unconventional as you judges her- you say "shouldn't it be bothering her on some level?" That would be like me judging you by thinking, "shouldn't it be bothering her that he's married?" As you have found in your life, circumstances that would normally be cause for concern, actually work for you.

 

If an older woman no longer considers sex to be essential in her life, then why cause conflict in a life that she enjoys and doesn't want to change? Over something that's not important to her?

 

Some women accept that their husband's cheat, but don't want it in their face. They feel more comfortable "not knowing", because conventional society says that if she finds out he's cheating, then she's supposed to do something about it. If she likes her life the way it is, and doesn't mind that another woman is meeting needs that she's no longer interested in meeting, there's no reason to interrogate him over his "thinly veiled lies".

 

The other possibility is that she just trusts him and believes him. It's not stupid to believe your spouse- they are supposed to have your best interests at heart.

[ThinkMore]

I don't think divorce has to be a bilateral decision. if he wants to do it he can do it. She is going to be hurt and have her life disrupted anyway so being straightforward about it instead of cowardly would be much better.

 

Some of us are just nice non-confrontational people who don't want to see another person hurt, no matter who they are. It may or may not have anything to do with us being Canadian. If the status quo works for everyone none of us has been in any hurry to rock the boat. I stayed in my marriage way too long in order to pull off an amicable divorce. I have no regrets.

[MJJean]

Maybe she doesn't think conventionally, either?

 

What could be more "traditional" or "conventional" than a BW turning a blind eye to preserve her lifestyle? It's been so common for so many centuries, it's well past cliche.

[sandylee1]

For some strange reason she doesn't believe there is an affair, but as he's such a liar ... how do you even truly know that she was told about it by his friend's wife?

 

You only have the word of a proven liar and cheater on everything you've said about her.

 

This nonsense about her refusing to discuss divorce is just that ..NONSENSE. Has the cat got his tongue that he can't open his mouth? Does she put earplugs on so she can't hear him? Whatever happened to him putting it in writing if she refuses to listen? Or is she illiterate?

 

Nothing makes sense based on what he's told you. If he has no feelings for her it would be easy to tell her. Alternatively, he needs her to run the business and can't risk her walking away if he goes through with a divorce.

 

This man took a job 3000 miles away from home. He needs his wife to run his business, so she can't move to him and he's not happy with the marriage? Where did the poor woman go wrong!

 

You have one side of the story and that's the cheaters side.

[ThinkMore]

MM is a grown man acting like a child and playing a victim role. He also seems like a fantastic liar and manipulator as he is both his wife and YOU wrapped around his baby finger.

 

Instead of worrying and wondering what BS is thinking, focus on why you are with him and why you possibly think that he isn't fooling/lying to you. Many MM (and MW) are skilled liars.

 

Those who want to divorce, do so. They put together a plan and make it happen. Your MM seems to just want a marriage and someone on the side.

 

There's no reason for him to lie to me. Whatever he chooses to do with his life is his business and totally fine with me. I have him available as much as I want to see him. I'd like to see his business succeed and for him to get his money back. He's perfectly happy to just give it to her.

 

The only thing that bothers me is i just don't think it's healthy for anyone to be lying that much. Surely it's going to affect his health in the long run. Or so I suspect. But if she doesn't want to know maybe he should just keep his mouth shut.