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I've decided to post an update due to reading posts about others being reticent to share due to fear of attack. So here goes...

 

Things for me are goodish. MM and his W and I have an agreement of sorts that allows us to access what we need. With one major exception.

 

The logistics of time and access are working quite well.

 

To illustrate where we're at... MM last week finished a major project and has been promoted. On the second last day he had his W, kids and family (including parents) out to tour the facility. He then spent the night with me and I spent the last day with him at work. In his farewell speech he thanked his family for their support, and also thanked me as his 'dear and trusted friend and colleague' for my support as well.

 

Last thing for the day was a wee dram of scotch with me and his exec team--who all know about us now--to toast an excellent project; the scotch I bought him on being appointed to his current role. He and I then packed up his office and he accompanied me to a family dinner (with my family that is).

 

He then went home to pack for an OS holiday with his W and kids. They are away for three weeks. When they get home, MM and I head off for two weeks together. Although our trip combines both work and leisure; we both have some meetings in the location we have chosen. We'll celebrate our sixth anniversary while there.

 

I'm actually pretty content right now. It has taken us a long time to reach this point. Our one remaining sticking point is openly acknowledging me as a partner in life. His W remains adamant that, while we can have a relationship, we can't be open about it. She insists on 'discretion'.

 

It's almost ludicrous now. Even my mother regularly asks about him as 'my special friend'. Our network, and extended network, of professional colleagues now routinely refer to us as a couple in a roundabout way. Everybody knows... but participates in the fiction that it doesn't exist. Even MM's last surviving grandparent, his maternal grandmother winks at me for goodness sake!

 

The problem for me is that all this tacit approval and acceptance is making him less inclined to be open.

 

'See Sol, they all accept us already. Why do we need to be overt? What does that achieve?'

 

To me it achieves legitimacy and security. It achieves support and recognition. It achieves acknowledgement. It achieves inclusion and acceptance.

 

When our vacation period is over, MM his W and I are planning to meet to discuss our Rs and how this is going to work going forward.

 

I'm full of trepidation, but hopefull.

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Maddieandtae

Do you think there will come a point in time that MM's wife will not want to be his wife anymore? If she is open to this arrangement for all her time here on earth, what is your threshold? How about the MM is he also open to this arrangement indefinitely.? If I remember correctly from previous posts and of course this current post not being fully acknowledged is a sticking point for you. If his wife does come to a point and agrees that you should be fully acknowledged as his other wife will that be enough for you? I've followed your story for a long time and indeed you three have come to a point where probably a lot of couples could never accept. Although I'm sure there are a lot of couples who can and I guess that is where you would need to know if you can co-exist with his wife if MM would prefer this arrangement over an "traditional" relationship. I'm thinking you three will be discussing these points when you all meet?

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None of their logistics matter. The outcome needs to be about your romantic goal in life which screams monogamy not open relationship. That means you have to dump him and find the one for you. Outcome and goals trump the person you are with. You are just wasting time while all the good ones get snapped up based on what you say and my experience and all of the stories here about who succeeded and who did not.

 

His W is a saint or crazy to allow an open relationship, she is already pushed to her limits and I don't think he will leave his family. You will feel bad when you are outed it's terrible. It is better to move on in my opinion because he has showed you his preference for an outcome. And his preference is open relationship which is not your goal. The pick me dance never works.

 

Good luck with whatever you decide.

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I hesitate to use the word "lucky", but this guy is definitely the most fortunate man in the world. If WH's had a religion, he'd be their deity.

 

The "why do we need to be overt?" question would bother me. You should be able to have an open R and treat it how you wish, without worrying how overt it is.

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Grapesofwrath

We each have our own needs and desires in a relationship. If this arrangement is meeting yours, then you're set and don't need to explain yourself to anyone. (His wife knows about you, so that issue is settled.)

 

Search your heart. Are your needs being met, truly? Are your desires being met, truly? If not--and it sounds like this may be the case--then the situation must be altered. He has done a masterful job of figuring out how to have it all. My question would be, "Why does he get to have it all and you only get to have a portion?" It seems that he is making the decisions about how this will work, and I would encourage you to regain some power for yourself in the situation as well.

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I think if you aren't discreet then perhaps that will be the final straw for his wife and he is afraid she will divorce him. Do his kids know about you?

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So you're saying that his wife is fully aware of her husband's emotional and sexual affair with you and she approves? When did that happen? I've been following your story too and I don't recall you ever giving an update on this. Isn't your affair also a long distance relationship? Have you actually spoken with his wife about this and know for a fact that she is awr of you?

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Security? He's offered you security?

 

If he were in the hospital his wife makes all the decisions.

 

Has he taken out life insurance in your name? You said security!

 

He may have trained all his friends and family to accept you - but at what cost? What did he have to tell them in order to obtain that goal of his?

 

I do think you feeling you have security is an illusion. What evidence do you have that you have security?

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So its basically like a Sister Wife-esque situation with a primary relationship and a secondary relationship, both of whom are fully aware of each other, but the public is not aware of the secondary relationship.

 

If it works for everyone then more power to you all. However it seems you arent happy since your relationship with him still has to be concealed and hidden. I dont see that ever changing since the wife wont allow it, and MM seems to not want it out in the open either

 

This guy must be truly amazing. Are there any OOW?

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hi, Sol!

 

so good to read an update from you! i gotta admit i don't understand one thing... what do you mean by being open...? if i understood well - you already are out there in the open and folks know about you and acknowledge you as a couple? also - will this be your first time meeting the W after she found out? how do you feel about it?

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SolG think it's awesome the three of you have an understanding. Living honestly.

 

What I don't understand is why you continue to push for more?

 

Also have you discussed his wife having an outside relationship...i believe that can be the next step that can possibly change the dynamic and his focus

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To each his own and whatever floats your boat and all that but forgive me if I'm a little cynical. Threesomes have a way of getting volatile, and IMO it's not worth the risk. People can lose their heads.

 

Why on earth ANYONE would want to try to manage such an arrangement, IDK. I personally don't have the time or energy to juggle custody arrangements with someone in order to jointly be with A MAN.

 

It sounds like all three of you are now living in the fog. Even if BW gets a BF and moves on, I hope you are prepared to continue this shared arrangement in the future when he finds a new third wheel.

 

Sheesh. What some people will do to keep a guy around is beyond me.

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I think if you aren't discreet then perhaps that will be the final straw for his wife and he is afraid she will divorce him. Do his kids know about you?

 

I agree.

 

SolG,

So whilst you are forging onward, sharing this affair with anyone who will listen, and acting like his SO, he is holding back as that is NOT what his wife agreed to. I guess the meeting is about you reining in your enthusiasm and respecting her wishes more, else I guess she will pull the plug on this arrangement.

Fine to give tacit approval, but not so fine to have her nose rubbed in it and for her to be seen as a laughing stock..

There is a very good reason she wants it kept quiet and that is all about maintaining her dignity and position as his wife, be very careful here or I guess you risk being unceremoniously dumped.

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LivingWaterPlease

SolG, I'm amazed at how well you seem to handle your feelings about your MM, and this entire situation.

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You are still the OW. She is still the wife. "Discreet" means that it is still a secret.

 

You are being recognised as the OW. Nothing more.

 

Poppy.

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I actually think this is a good situation. No lies no deceit on all three parties. The terms as to who is SO and who is not may be a constant negotiation, but everyone's happy and legal so I say good for you all.

 

My great grandfather has one wife and seven concubines, and they worked everything out. In our time nowadays some feminists probably would propose some grand talk of equality, but I say we are all consential adults living in a free world, so whatever strikes your fancy, as long as you're not hurting or deceiving.

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whichwayisup
I actually think this is a good situation. No lies no deceit on all three parties. The terms as to who is SO and who is not may be a constant negotiation, but everyone's happy and legal so I say good for you all.

 

My great grandfather has one wife and seven concubines, and they worked everything out. In our time nowadays some feminists probably would propose some grand talk of equality, but I say we are all consential adults living in a free world, so whatever strikes your fancy, as long as you're not hurting or deceiving.

 

It will be good for as long as it works. As soon as one or both or all get unhappy then it doesn't work anymore. this is kind of (but not really) like a poly relationship. Something you all should talk about if his wife and you are on okay terms, at least this way you'll be recognized more than just his hidden secret in his world. (Do his children know about you?)

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Sol, I wish that you would read some of my old threads.

 

My similar situation, which ended, and was then followed by multiple D Days, was quite simply disastrous for everyone involved.

 

Please read them. I got some good advice at the time, but I seem to be a person who needs to learn things the hard way. And that is what happened.

 

Feel free to PM me any time you want to talk.

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I hesitate to use the word "lucky", but this guy is definitely the most fortunate man in the world. If WH's had a religion, he'd be their deity.

 

Our male friends, and in particular my best male friend, actually think he's crazy. My BMF used to in the earlier days of the A tell me that I was nuts... he now tells MM he's the one that's nuts. His perspective is that MM can't satisfy two women. Particularly because one of them is me :)

 

So you're saying that his wife is fully aware of her husband's emotional and sexual affair with you and she approves? When did that happen? I've been following your story too and I don't recall you ever giving an update on this. Isn't your affair also a long distance relationship? Have you actually spoken with his wife about this and know for a fact that she is awr of you?

 

Yes, she knows everything. He set out to tell her all about himself excluding the A... but in the telling he said he had to keep going. She needed to know everything.

 

Yes we are LD. I have indeed spoken to his W and know that she knows everything.

 

Security? He's offered you security?

 

If he were in the hospital his wife makes all the decisions.

 

Has he taken out life insurance in your name? You said security!

 

He may have trained all his friends and family to accept you - but at what cost? What did he have to tell them in order to obtain that goal of his?

 

I do think you feeling you have security is an illusion. What evidence do you have that you have security?

 

What does security mean to you? To me it means emotionally knowing that someone is there for you. His W having the con if he's dying, insurance, etc... that's not security to me.

 

I just want to know that he's there for me. That the people I love, know and love him too. That's security.

 

We have a joint bank account for our expenses. That's the only entanglement we have. Beyond that all I need for security is to know that my loved ones know.

 

hi, Sol!

 

so good to read an update from you! i gotta admit i don't understand one thing... what do you mean by being open...? if i understood well - you already are out there in the open and folks know about you and acknowledge you as a couple? also - will this be your first time meeting the W after she found out? how do you feel about it?

 

Yes Mini, this will be our first in the face meeting since all this.

 

To put it in MM's terms... I'm not his W's favourite person.

 

I do need to spell out that this has not been an overnight process. His W didn't just at the first revelation accept and decide all was well. There was an immense amount of trauma along the way.

 

I actually recall one weekend where MM didn't want his W to drive because he believed her driving in her emotional state was unsafe. She was incredibly distraught. And no, that weekend wasn't about me or the A. They have had a lot to work through.

 

When she called me I thought she would be seeking to corroborate facts about the A. But actually what she wanted to talk about was my aspirations and the future.

 

For some reason she thought I was a lot younger than I am. So I reaffirmed my age. I also assured her that I don't want to remarry, that I don't want (and can't have) any more children, and that I am absolutely content with our arrangement and don't want or need MM to leave her.

 

She thanked me, asked me to remain discreet, and also asked that I give her time to work through things. I've honoured all of this.

 

I'm very nervous about our upcoming meeting. I'm the one who asked for it... because I hate being hidden. But I'm also cognisant of the fact that I've been a hidden factor for approx half of their marriage. I don't expect her to be kind.

 

What I don't understand is why you continue to push for more?

 

Also have you discussed his wife having an outside relationship...i believe that can be the next step that can possibly change the dynamic and his focus

 

The more I want is just the freedom to be a couple. I don't want him to parade me at work. I don't want to change my FB relationship status. I want to be able to tell my mother, brother and daughter that this is the R I'm in.

 

I want to be able to tell my close work colleagues fully what my weekend was like. I want to be able to walk down the street in my town holding his hand without having to worry.

 

We are all technically free to have other partners. I have two other lovers. MM's W has declined the prospect. MM states that he is content with me and his W at present. I'm not adverse to the concept of other serious partners for him and/or me. However, I do know that he is not seeking others right now. He promised his W that it is and will be just me as an additional partner.

 

Fine to give tacit approval, but not so fine to have her nose rubbed in it and for her to be seen as a laughing stock..

There is a very good reason she wants it kept quiet and that is all about maintaining her dignity and position as his wife, be very careful here or I guess you risk being unceremoniously dumped.

 

I agree. I don't want this to outstrip her comfort levels. To be clear, MM and I are both very cognisant of her wishes. But here is a balance here that needs to be attained if we are to remain in this R.

 

It will be good for as long as it works. As soon as one or both or all get unhappy then it doesn't work anymore. this is kind of (but not really) like a poly relationship. Something you all should talk about if his wife and you are on okay terms, at least this way you'll be recognized more than just his hidden secret in his world. (Do his children know about you?)

 

His children are young. We are still debating what to do here. MM's view is that this can teach them a lot about love and tolerance and R choices. His W's view is that she doesn't want them to know because it will expose them to aberrant R models.

 

This is not my fight. I don't have skin in this game because they are not my children. But I do know I want my daughter (in her twenties undertaking her post-grad qual) to know. But I won't tell her until they're ready.

 

Sol, I wish that you would read some of my old threads.

 

My similar situation, which ended, and was then followed by multiple D Days, was quite simply disastrous for everyone involved.

 

Please read them. I got some good advice at the time, but I seem to be a person who needs to learn things the hard way. And that is what happened.

 

Feel free to PM me any time you want to talk.

 

Thank you WU. I read your threads. How are you doing now?

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I admire your desire to live authentically and honestly. I'm glad everyone knows the truth in your situation and can make choices based on that truth.

 

I've heard of this arrangement working but not in this exact situation. The problem here is that this is sort of being forced upon the wife. Oh she may be free to leave the marriage if she doesn't like it but if her heart is not in leaving then her only choice is to accept this arrangement. I feel like her self esteem took a dive upon discovering that her husband wishes to have other women and in this weakened emotional state she has agreed to something she normally wouldn't. In the show sister wives every single one of those women married the guy knowing that there were going to be other wives and they wanted that. Your MMs wife didn't know when she married her husband that this is what she was going to get.

 

I hope this all turns out well but I can see a lot of problems and land mines

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I admire your desire to live authentically and honestly. I'm glad everyone knows the truth in your situation and can make choices based on that truth.

 

I've heard of this arrangement working but not in this exact situation. The problem here is that this is sort of being forced upon the wife. Oh she may be free to leave the marriage if she doesn't like it but if her heart is not in leaving then her only choice is to accept this

 

The wife has young children to consider here, so I guess she is doing this for them and not because she is truly OK with the arrangement.

Another reason she wants this kept under wraps.

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Like others, I appreciate the air of openness the three of you are striving for. You and the W are showing some other-level type of maturity by sitting down together. I have to ask, though, if by "everything" you really do mean "everything". Not as in details, but as in things like the joint bank account. She's aware of that?

 

Also, I see what the MM is trying to get at in regards to the kids and teaching tolerance. BUT, I think that works if everyone is truly happy, including their mother. She's obviously not 100% there, given her request for discretion. So I think the MM is being a little naive about this. The world is mostly revolving around him, not the three of you equally. I would fear that's the lesson they eventually learn.

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What I'm afraid of for SolG who I've grown fond of over the years here, is eventually his wife will join in, find herself an additional lover, the safe guards of marriage isn't in place. I fear that mm will view the set up alot different and want to change the rules leaving SolG out.

 

Otherwise whatever kind of relationship adults conduct and are happy in its great.

 

Also at the end of the day of the wife had her say and decided this could work for her, anyone judging SolG or any of them for that matter is wrong, no one has the right to push their moral standards of what marriage and relationship should be to them.

 

SolG if your happy then I'm happy for you.

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The proof of the pudding is in the tasting. In the long term Sol, I do hope he is worth all the heartache and trauma you have been through.

 

His wife might change her mind at any time..... early days yet.

 

Will you be happy to have concubine status for the rest of your life?

 

Poppy

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The wife wants discretion because she doesn't want her children to know. She doesn't want them going to school saying daddy has a girlfriend. And she doesn't want their mutual friends to know either. When the wife gets tired of this, and she will especially if Sol insists on being open about this, then the wife very well could file for divorce. And that will be very costly for the mm since he has small children. Imo she is being coerced into this just to stay married. She isn't going to put up with this for long.

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