And so the cycle continues

[Messy Lady]

Following on from my earlier thread:

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/other-man-woman/576573-hurting-me-hurting-others

 

Yes, the cycle of hot/cold continued. A couple of weeks ago he came back from holiday and said we had to end things. I thought he would say this and I was actually prepared for that and ready to deal with that. Yet literally within 2 or 3 hours, it was all back on and all very much at his initiative. Then the next day it was back off again! But it was never 100% off and it was clear that he was having concerns about the risks we were taking hence back on again within a couple of days.

 

All was going well until on Thursday, we almost got caught at work when he kissed me in his office. This was a wake up call to us both on how stupid we have been at work but he was particularly panicked by it and said again we had to end things. So that is where we are again and we have to try and make that stick this time. But it's different because he didn't actually want to end it this time (me kidding myself again?). I am upset that it is over but on the whole yesterday at work went fine with him. Though maybe too fine? We are still just as close when it comes to sharing work issues and he still made some playful references to "us". Neither of us are being good on boundaries. Even an exchange of work emails last night ended up with "x" being tagged in to emails (he started that!).

 

I don't know how we are going to make it work as just colleagues. We are too relaxed and comfortable with each other so there are some gestures and touches we both do without even thinking about now. I tried to create more of a physical distance between us to stop that but sometimes that was not practical. But then that is because he and I are making it not practical isn't it.

 

I know I will get grief for this post and still being in this mess but actually typing up this post has allowed me to think about how he and I are not enforcing boundaries when we easily could.

Edited June 11, 2016 by Messy Lady

[Jersey born raised]

You are allowing this guy to own you, or are you forgetting your post on 5/10 #188 - he is the dominant one Not you?

 

His demands will grow and intrude deeper into your life, absorbing more and more of you until there is nothing left of you in your family's life. You will become a source of pain and loss to them.

 

I am not trying to give you grief, but this is not going to end well and will continue down this path until you deciede to stop it.

[Jersey born raised]

Understand he "loves" you for how you allow him to feel dominant, no other reason. He lives for the push-pull of knowing you will yield. Not much of a life he is offering.

 

You need to focus on yourself and who you are, and who you will be.

[Oran]

MessyLady

 

It seems to me you are on a very self-destructive, self-sabotaging path, IMO. You are on the brink of imploding your family life, your marriage and your professional life. Why are you doing this to yourself? I think it may appear that your AP is the instrument of this destruction, but he is only enabling you to be so destructive. You don't have to continue with this pattern of behaviour.

[SolG]

I know I will get grief for this post and still being in this mess but actually typing up this post has allowed me to think about how he and I are not enforcing boundaries when we easily could.

 

Hi messy :-) I'm glad you're back and that posting has some value for you in terms of reflection and thinking about what you can do differently. That's a positive first step.

 

Like others will undoubtedly say, and I've said before, I think your MM is particularly manipulative. I hope you find the strength to extricate yourself.

[Messy Lady]

Understand he "loves" you for how you allow him to feel dominant, no other reason. He lives for the push-pull of knowing you will yield. Not much of a life he is offering.

 

You need to focus on yourself and who you are, and who you will be.

 

I do see how he likes that and have even commented on it to him. When I said that I was being submissive with him, he laughed at the idea that I was submissive. As for "love" - even yesterday after we are supposedly over, he asked me if I still love him. This is not an "in love" type of declaration and we both know that but it is still not professional. It is something he has asked me on a frequent basis yet the one time I asked him the same question, he tried to avoid answering the question.

 

 

Hi messy :-) I'm glad you're back and that posting has some value for you in terms of reflection and thinking about what you can do differently. That's a positive first step.

 

Like others will undoubtedly say, and I've said before, I think your MM is particularly manipulative. I hope you find the strength to extricate yourself.

 

Thank you SolG. The reflection when posting does help. I can see how he and I are still allowing this.

 

I still struggle to see him as this extreme manipulator. I don't know whether that is because I'm too close to it all or maybe it's because I can understand him better because I can see how he acts at other times too when he is not supposedly manipulating me. But then maybe I should just look to what I said in response to Jersey.

[13Hearts]

What have you come to LS for?

 

Do you just post here so that you can justify your behavior? Or validate your feelings? Or do you want to change things? If you want to change things, what would you like to change?

 

I would like to point out I read your original post and you seem to think this is just something that has happened to you. For instance, you say that "we wound up having sex" or something to that effect. No, you did not wind up having sex. You decided you were going to have sex with this guy so you purposely stayed late, probably lied to your husband and your kids, and accomplished what you set out to do.

 

The fact that he keeps saying "we have to stop," is not a matter of weak boundaries. That is merely a way for him to shift blame in his mind. This way he can think he tried not to do this, and has a defense for his horrid behavior.

 

One of you needs to take responsibility for what is happening. And I promise you it won't be him. You, as a woman, are responsible for what you morally allow into your life, and the life of your family. To expect a man to make the moral choice when it comes to sex is just silly.

 

I think you need to think about how you define yourself as a person. Because to him, you're easy. You both are using one another. If that's the extent of your integrity as a person, and you're ok with that, then by all means continue. But if you're not ok with that, perhaps you should look into the concept of integrity and see if rationally you want to live with integrity or not.

 

It's easy to just have sex with whomever you're attracted to, and to cultivate the great feelings sex can provide by having even more sex. But really, what are your values?

 

These are questions you need to ask yourself in order to grow as a person.

[loveisanaction]

Messy Lady, Why are you doing this to yourself? Why are you inflicting unnecessary emotional pain on yourself? Why are you sabotaging your marriage and betraying your husband this way? Why are you embarrassing and placing your job and career at risk like this? Forget about if your married man loves you; do YOU love you?

 

No woman who has love inside of her for herself will accept this type of treatment.

 

I get the woman who falls for the married man who treats her with respect, and kindness. But your married man treats you as if you should be grateful and appreciative that he gives you cheap scraps of attention; that you should feel honored he's even considered you his other woman.

 

You are a married woman; he knows this, you know this but you seem to have selective memory where your marriage is concerned. This man has no respect for you, no respect for your husband, no respect for his wife, none for his children and zero for his job. Just typing this and thinking about the way he treats you makes my blood boil. Yet you are all "He respects me, we have a good working relationship."

 

Honey Please!

Edited June 11, 2016 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
rude ~T

[elaine567]

I do see how he likes that and have even commented on it to him. When I said that I was being submissive with him, he laughed at the idea that I was submissive. As for "love" - even yesterday after we are supposedly over, he asked me if I still love him. This is not an "in love" type of declaration and we both know that but it is still not professional. It is something he has asked me on a frequent basis yet the one time I asked him the same question, he tried to avoid answering the question.

 

Everyone loves to be loved, and here is a man that has two women who love him, what an ego boost...

BUT he doesn't actually care enough about you to give you that ego boost back, he just wants to keep on taking.

He wants to keep you dangling on a string.

YOU therefore fill in the blanks, you are besotted, so you assume he loves you back.

 

Trouble is you have no idea, best case scenario - he does love you.

Worst case - you are just the easy married woman at work who is willing to cheat on her husband, and who he is trying to shake off as she is getting too involved, but he is new to the job too and needs her input, so doesn't want to piss her off completely, so he blows hot and cold..

[HeCantBreakMe]

Following on from my earlier thread:

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/other-man-woman/576573-hurting-me-hurting-others

 

Yes, the cycle of hot/cold continued. A couple of weeks ago he came back from holiday and said we had to end things. I thought he would say this and I was actually prepared for that and ready to deal with that. Yet literally within 2 or 3 hours, it was all back on and all very much at his initiative. Then the next day it was back off again! But it was never 100% off and it was clear that he was having concerns about the risks we were taking hence back on again within a couple of days.

 

All was going well until on Thursday, we almost got caught at work when he kissed me in his office. This was a wake up call to us both on how stupid we have been at work but he was particularly panicked by it and said again we had to end things. So that is where we are again and we have to try and make that stick this time. But it's different because he didn't actually want to end it this time (me kidding myself again?). I am upset that it is over but on the whole yesterday at work went fine with him. Though maybe too fine? We are still just as close when it comes to sharing work issues and he still made some playful references to "us". Neither of us are being good on boundaries. Even an exchange of work emails last night ended up with "x" being tagged in to emails (he started that!).

 

I don't know how we are going to make it work as just colleagues. We are too relaxed and comfortable with each other so there are some gestures and touches we both do without even thinking about now. I tried to create more of a physical distance between us to stop that but sometimes that was not practical. But then that is because he and I are making it not practical isn't it.

 

I know I will get grief for this post and still being in this mess but actually typing up this post has allowed me to think about how he and I are not enforcing boundaries when we easily could.

 

Hi Messy Lady- I have not read all of your story just parts but we have some similarities. I too am a MW who had an affair with a MM only mine was a very close coworker and not a boss. My exMM was/is and extremely intelligent individual and he knew at every turn what to say and when to say it. I think he still tries to play mind games with me but I am choosing not to analyze it. I walked away from our affair 23 days ago we didn't have a D-day and though he future faked me about leaving his wife I realized 1) he never would 2) I didn't want him to and 3) i was done being hurt in an affair that I tried to walk away from 100X before.

 

My advice for you is to sit back and consider where this is going to go. You work with this man and you are taking a lot of risks at work (I get this because I did too). You will get caught if you keep going and here is what is going to happen:

 

1.) You will be HATED at work and labled the homewrecker

2.) Your MM will HATE you, will throw you under the bus, and will completely ghost you

3.) HE will get fired and you will be lucky if you do not

4.) ONE of your spouses may end up at your office and this is drama

5.) Your entire life will be a whole lot messier than you think it is now

 

Your MM doesn't love you. What he is doing isn't love and in your gut you know this. You probably think you are not strong enough to walk away, you probably think he has made your marriage that much more exciting and without him your life will be dull and boring. You probably think work will be too difficult if go NC (or LC in your case since you work together) but this is all NOT true. I am living this and I am doing fine. Yes it is tough at work and i am job hunting but it is doable.

 

You probably can't answer the question - what about your husband- because you are so caught up in the affair fog but I HOPE this thought is creeping in because that will help. I am guessing your husband, like mine was, is hurting BAD. He knows you have pulled away and he is suffering. I started seeing the pain in my husbands eyes towards the end of my 10month affair and it was like a bucket of cold water being thrown onto me and my affair fog.

 

If nothing else wakes you up from this then consider what destruction you are about to bring down on your head. Because it WILL happen if you continue.

[Messy Lady]

I've not got time to do a full reply but I want to clarify something. This thing where he asks me if I love him? It is a joke thing we have between us. It does not mean that I actually do love him and we both know that. I also know that he doesn't love me.

[elaine567]

I've not got time to do a full reply but I want to clarify something. This thing where he asks me if I love him? It is a joke thing we have between us. It does not mean that I actually do love him and we both know that. I also know that he doesn't love me.

 

Keep telling yourself that.

Why then bring it up and put a little sad/mad emoticon on it, if now you say it is just a joke...

Really???

[Messy Lady]

Keep telling yourself that.

Why then bring it up and put a little sad/mad emoticon on it, if now you say it is just a joke...

Really???

 

I am being absolutely consistent with what I have said about love. Please refer to posts 44, 98, 102, 179 and particularly post 127 in my old thread if you don't believe me.

[William]

As a note to those contributing this thread, the OP's previous thread was closed due to a few members who could not seem to keep their posts civil.

 

Because of that, the margin for error in this new thread will be very slim and suspension of posting privileges will be applied very liberally after this directive. ~Thank you

[Satu]

There is no cycle.

 

Nothing has changed.

 

He's still where he wants to be, with the person he wants to be with.

[Jersey born raised]

Hi messy,

 

In your first post you asked not to be warned about what would happen if this relationship was discovered by co-workers, your children and your husband. Instead to help you understand how you got here. I have honored this request and focused on you. But you do need to consider how you will handle the fallout.

 

I understand William's warning and I will try to stay within his constraints.

 

When you past off a remark about this being an inside joke, understand that he is using this as a tool to continue his use of you. It is an intimacy building tool.

 

You will continue to live in limbo as long as you allow him to do and say these things to you. There are posters here and on other boards who have spent decades in this type of relationships always in pain. Want it to end?

 

Tell him that you are filing for divorce and want him to do the same. Tell him it has gone to far for you to deny your feelings. Tell him you want a child with him. When it gets real cowards run, he will run.

[DKT3]

You want to break the cycle? Tell your husband, or at least tell your boss that you did and watch how quickly he totally cuts you off, boom no more cycle

[William]

Having received a private 'sigh' from the moderator who worked this thread, relevant to some content published after their directive and now removed, I also wish to point out that, as this topic references a closed thread linked in the opening post, any members wishing to bring relevant content from that thread into this one shall do so by quoting it directly and linking to it, per our long-published policy on such matters. Moderation prefers each thread to stand alone in discussion but does respect that past content can be relevant to the current discussion.

 

I noted no directives from moderation in the linked thread so I hope this will be the last one in this thread. Thanks for your attention and please continue

[BuddyX]

The MM is not the problem, you are the problem. It's like asking a snake why he bit you. Because it's what they do. You know how you stay away from the venom? By not getting close to the snake.

[imperfectangel]

OP, I'm not a MW, I'm a single OW but we seem to be at the same point.

 

I believe someone's already said it here "they're where they want to be with who they want to be with". Every time I want to contact my MM - multiple times a day infact I repeat this to myself and I cannot say how much that line alone has helped me.

 

Do you want to end your affair or do you just want more out of it?

[Messy Lady]

Hi messy,

 

In your first post you asked not to be warned about what would happen if this relationship was discovered by co-workers, your children and your husband. Instead to help you understand how you got here. I have honored this request and focused on you. But you do need to consider how you will handle the fallout.

 

I understand William's warning and I will try to stay within his constraints.

 

When you past off a remark about this being an inside joke, understand that he is using this as a tool to continue his use of you. It is an intimacy building tool.

 

You will continue to live in limbo as long as you allow him to do and say these things to you. There are posters here and on other boards who have spent decades in this type of relationships always in pain. Want it to end?

 

Tell him that you are filing for divorce and want him to do the same. Tell him it has gone to far for you to deny your feelings. Tell him you want a child with him. When it gets real cowards run, he will run.

 

Jersey

 

Don't worry about upsetting me. You have been tough yet supportive and patient with me and it is appreciated.

 

Yes I do worry about the potential fallout and the incident at work on Thursday highlighted how easy it could be to be discovered.

 

The inside joke thing. You are right and that is why it upsets me. He is reaffirming his dominance over me when he does this. When he asked me this question yesterday, my initial response was "what am I supposed to say?". I was confused because he said we were over when we had last met and subsequently spoke over the phone yet the very next day he wants reassurance that I still "love him". Yes it does pi$$ me off hence the angry face.

 

Living in limbo for decades? No that won't be the case here. He only plans to work here another couple of years so there is a clear time limit on all this. In some ways I'm glad of that because it emphasises the temporary nature of this relationship.

 

As for your final paragraph, he and I have actually both made it clear we don't want anything complicated. Well to be accurate, he has asked me more than once (including this week after we had spent the afternoon together!) " this isn't an affair is it?". My answer was that I don't want anything complicated between him and I. My answer is pretty honest. I am not after us leaving our respective spouses. To be honest I just want consistency from him whether that be on or off!

 

But his comment about it not being an affair. This is just ridiculous semantics. I figure he means that it is just sex etc. But I am quite sure his wife and my husband would not think "oh it was only sex and not an affair so that's ok then". It's delusional.

 

The child thing? Well impossible for him! And at my age, highly unlikely. . But thank you for making me laugh at the thought.

 

But being serious. I know he would never leave his wife for me. I also know I don't want to leave my husband for him.

[Messy Lady]

Do you want to end your affair or do you just want more out of it?

 

Now that's the question and I have yet to figure out the answer. Logic, common sense, decency, self-preservation says the former. But I know I still want him. If he came into work on Monday and he was in "it's over" mode I would deal with it and work my way through it. But I also know that if he came in and started to flirt and tease and touch....

 

Which I find even more troubling after some of the reflection I have gone through in this thread.

[Jersey born raised]

So you spent the afternoon together.

 

As to my last paragraph I suggest doing so to drive him away from you. If you wrote it he will run from you like a man on fire. He wants this on his terms not your's.

 

How many Wayward husbands would disappear in a heartbeat if their AP were to write that note to them.

 

Are you sure this is not an exit affair for you? I can understand your MOM being a way stop not a destination. But that still does not mean this is not in some form this is not an exit affair on your part.

[Messy Lady]

It's not an exit affair. I love my husband and on the whole our marriage is good. The only real problem is the lack of physical intimacy which I did mention in my last thread. Sex only happens if I initiate (he never does) and the last two or three times I tried to initiate, he wasn't interested. I have tried to talk to him about this - he also agrees it's a problem and I know he wants to have sex with me too - but nothing changes.

 

Huge concern I have realised whilst writing this is that sex with the MM is creating an intimacy that I don't have with my husband and that pulls me away from my husband. I don't want that to happen.

 

Before I forget. Your suggested letter? I do see what you are getting at but if and when this does end (already ended?) I have to consider the working relationship afterwards. There is no way of avoiding each other at work. One of the concerns he and I have had is how what has been happening could damage work if it ended badly. The letter would damage it - though I'm sure far less than the affair (if that is what it is, even if he won't use that word) being discovered would damage things. As it is, he knew I was not in a great mood at work on Friday which was due to a number of things but I did tell him that it was in part (I knew mostly) due to us ending. He knows I am more involved in this than I have said to him which has all been part of his game, if that is what he has been doing, as it has meant I'm there when he wants me to feed his ego.

[loveisanaction]

Jersey

 

Don't worry about upsetting me. You have been tough yet supportive and patient with me and it is appreciated.

 

Yes I do worry about the potential fallout and the incident at work on Thursday highlighted how easy it could be to be discovered.

 

The inside joke thing. You are right and that is why it upsets me. He is reaffirming his dominance over me when he does this. When he asked me this question yesterday, my initial response was "what am I supposed to say?". I was confused because he said we were over when we had last met and subsequently spoke over the phone yet the very next day he wants reassurance that I still "love him". Yes it does pi$$ me off hence the angry face.

 

Living in limbo for decades? No that won't be the case here. He only plans to work here another couple of years so there is a clear time limit on all this. In some ways I'm glad of that because it emphasises the temporary nature of this relationship.

 

As for your final paragraph, he and I have actually both made it clear we don't want anything complicated. Well to be accurate, he has asked me more than once (including this week after we had spent the afternoon together!) " this isn't an affair is it?". My answer was that I don't want anything complicated between him and I. My answer is pretty honest. I am not after us leaving our respective spouses. To be honest I just want consistency from him whether that be on or off!

 

But his comment about it not being an affair. This is just ridiculous semantics. I figure he means that it is just sex etc. But I am quite sure his wife and my husband would not think "oh it was only sex and not an affair so that's ok then". It's delusional.

 

The child thing? Well impossible for him! And at my age, highly unlikely. . But thank you for making me laugh at the thought.

 

But being serious. I know he would never leave his wife for me. I also know I don't want to leave my husband for him.

 

Messy Lady, You are saying that the affair will not remain in limbo because your married man plans on leaving the job in a couple of years. In a couple of years!! So the affair will continue for the next couple of years and the only reason why it will end is if he leaves the job? You are also saying that you want consistency from him whether it be on off. So, you are okay continuing in this affair if your married man is consistent in continuing in it also?

 

He ends the affair one day then comes back the very next day. This proves that he was right when he told you in the car that he can have you any time he wants. Remember he told you that? The day you were in the car with him and you tried to make a move on him and he turned you down then told you that he could have you any time he wanted. So, was he right?

 

He keeps repeating to you that what you have with him isn't an affair. Then what is it? If he is not in an affair with you and you are not his affair partner then what are you to him?

 

I wish with everything inside of me that you will come out of this as soon as possible because the more you remain in this the more damage, destruction and harm this man will continue to inflict on your self esteem.

 

I understand that as humans we want to be loved and we want to be touched. But we should never want to be loved or touched at the expense of our self worth and dignity.

 

You do not see it but it is as clear as night is from day that this man is not treating you right.