Logic and Emotions at war

[paradoxx]

Hi. I'm a newbie but have been reading others' stories for a while trying to wrap my head around what I'm doing, going to do. It seems that most people start posting when they are looking to get out of their affair. I've read many encourage and advise those in affairs to get out, cut ties and run in the other directions.

 

I am a MW involved in a PA with a MM. We both have children and are unhappy in our marriages. On the surface things seem fine between my H and I and we do a good job as parenting partners and friends. I've realized; through IC, that I've had to compromise parts of my personality throughout my marriage and that's lead to my discontent and emotional disconnect. So, enter MM, who is younger and also unhappy with his marriage. We're not in love, and we know that this will end, we're just lonely and needing someone to appreciate us as we are without compromise. I know this is cake eating and I'm not proud of it or defending it. I feel so disconnected from my emotions that I don't know if I still love my husband but I also don't love my AP.

 

Honestly, I don't know what I'm going to do and all the convincing/ shaming/ reasoning may not sink in despite the warnings of others. What I'm looking for are others to talk to who may have gone through similar scenarios and what they learned. I WANT to want to stop. Some of you may just be angry with me. I read through Messy Lady's thread (who's honesty I appreciated) and took a lot of what was said to heart. My logical self nods in agreement with all of that advice. My emotions, however aren't cooperating.

[Sabella]

Hi Paradoxx

 

I think that's the hardest part when you are in the middle of the A. There are so many emotions involved, it's difficult to think clearly about much of anything.

 

I guess it's different for me because I loved both men. People may argue that it was all AFog, and perhaps I will come to a different conclusion in a year from now, so I won't argue that point with anyone. Regardless, I am without either one now and alone, and it's how it should be in this moment.

 

The 3 year A was not without its many down sides, it's a relationship, they all have ups and downs. Although we never planned on leaving our marriages, because I loved him and he said the same, my feelings would get hurt over lots of things. There were many times I wanted to leave, even though I loved him and he became my best friend.

 

I've never been a deceitful person, really the only lies I would ever tell were white lies to protect feelings etc. towards the end of this secret life I was holding on to, I didn't know who I was, who I had become. I had started living 2 lives in a way, and not succeeding at either of them and feeling ****ty about myself.

 

I rationalized a lot for the love, that it was keeping my family together and just filling a void and such. But really for me I was scared of making hard decisions and putting a band aid on a bad marriage.

 

Even though you don't feel like you love either of them...don't you feel like you deserve to love someone without guilt? For me, it was hard to live a lie. Easier to even be alone than live that way any longer. Also, although I have many issues with my spouse, he deserves to find happiness and real love as well.

 

The hard part for you now I think might be in seeing clearly to make the best decision for your family and yourself. I'm not gonna guilt you and if you ask me any questions I will be honest with you.

 

Just keep reading and posting

[Poppy47]

I think you should get away from both and find what you really want.

 

Poppy

[Sabella]

One more thing that really hit home for me was something my sister said to me.

She asked me "if your daughter was in a situation like you are now, would you want her to live that way? What would your advice be to her?" For me hands down, I would support her regardless of her choice, but would tell her she should leave her marriage and affair and work on herself and find true happiness.

 

I pushed that even further in my mind and imagined my son in a marriage with his spouse cheating on him. How horrid I would feel for him.

 

Mind you, I still terribly miss my AP, and I'm in a lot of pain over the ending of my marriage. But it's honest pain and I can start to look at myself in the mirror. I dont say any of these things in a judgy way. This is just my story with my filters.

[SomethingToSay]

Our 1st World culture is amazing. There are people struggling across the world for basic necessities and human rights. And here we are...whining about any little minutea of our marriage that might give us the sadz, feeling entitled to our ****ty affairs.

 

Hon, if your H finds out he wil be devastated and full of pain. They say the pain is often worse than losing a child. All bc what? Youre bored....had to compromise....dont get butterflies dealing with mortgages and dishes? Your feelings are confused? Good lord.

 

May i suggest if you need perspective try volunteering in your local childrens cancer ward?

 

As to your emotions pulling you towards this A, you do realize its all fake and fantasy. As you say, you arent in love with him. He isnt in love with you. So what, you basically are putting bandaids on your emotional needs with something yucky and ugly and cruel.

If you truly want to be emotionally fulfilled, you need to focus on your marriage -- counseling, etc. I realize thats hard and the A provides instant gratification.

 

Good luck to you.

Edited May 26, 2016 by SomethingToSay

[burnt]

Hi Paradox,

Yes, life is funny. It's not black and white--it's awful shades of grey. It would be wonderful to be able to go back to childhood and see everything neatly categorized into 'good' and 'bad' piles. Life is messy and understanding ourselves is the hardest journey and that journey takes some of us on roads that are rugged and hostile and damaged.

 

Those people who can stand at the top of the mountains with their angel halos on, preaching to the rest at the bottom, are often the least self-reflective and least self aware ones.

 

So sadly, it's these times when you find yourself in the midst of an affair and you start to wonder HOW you became this person that you can no longer recognize, it brings in immeasurable confusion and overwhelming frustration but it also brings in a hidden gift: the opportunity to explore and understand yourself.

 

I never thought I'd find myself to be a married woman having an affair with a married man. But here I am. All I can say is that I no longer see life or myself the same way I did before. It's a harsh lesson.

 

You are on a tough road. WHY you ended on this path is a good question and you will spend years discovering the answer to that question. But for now, I have only a few thoughts to share:

 

1. I'm glad you are in IC. I'm glad you are actively and thoughtfully looking into WHY you feel disconnected in your marriage. I hope you find the answer soon. Stay with the IC and keep reading everything about affairs and marital problems you can find--the more you read, the more insights you will gather.

 

2. Affairs sometimes have a positive outcome but mostly leave behind devastating irreparable damage; they either make the WS reawaken and rekindle their marriage or they destroy the marriage or they make the WS realize they need to exit the marriage. But the risk of damage is too high--and if you can figure out what's wrong with your marriage with the help of IC or MC, that would be a million times better than having the affair.

 

3. Final note: though you have no feelings for your AP for NOW, you being a woman, sooner or later there's a STRONG chance that you will develop feelings for your AP and then you will discover what we OWs mean when we say "indescribable pain". So, don't go down that path to find out what this pain feels like. Affairs are bad ideas; affairs with MM are worse than affairs with single man. You risk hurting too many people--everyone--both WS, both BS, children on both families.

 

If you feel emotionally disconnected--you don't have to invalidate your instincts. Chances are there are things that are going wrong with your marriage that either need addressing or that the marriage is dead. Either way, you have to examine what's going on in YOUR marriage. The answer lies INSIDE your marriage, not OUTSIDE.

[paradoxx]

Our 1st World culture is amazing. There are people struggling across the world for basic necessities and human rights. And here we are...whining about any little minutea of our marriage that might give us the sadz, feeling entitled to our ****ty affairs.

 

Hon, if your H finds out he wil be devastated and full of pain. They say the pain is often worse than losing a child. All bc what? Youre bored....had to compromise....dont get butterflies dealing with mortgages and dishes? Your feelings are confused? Good lord.

 

May i suggest if you need perspective try volunteering in your local childrens cancer ward?

 

As to your emotions pulling you towards this A, you do realize its all fake and fantasy. As you say, you arent in love with him. He isnt in love with you. So what, you basically are putting bandaids on your emotional needs with something yucky and ugly and cruel.

If you truly want to be emotionally fulfilled, you need to focus on your marriage -- counseling, etc. I realize thats hard and the A provides instant gratification.

 

Good luck to you.

 

Yes. This all makes logical sense. I am very blessed in all I have and have been saying that to myself all the years that I have been married. Maybe the absence of major stresses (or even minor ones i.e. Both kids are in school, job has settled) is why I am more focused on my own selfish needs. The distraction of being busy with kids and work kept me from dwelling on my own emotions and now the emotions are erupting like a volcano.

 

It is very much like a bandaid...trying to cover a volcano...which I realize is ridiculous.

 

We have been trying MC and I am in counseling as well.

[paradoxx]

Thank you for your thoughtful replies burnt and Sabella. It helps to know that others understand my confusion and conflict.

 

Poppy - you may be right that this is what I will need to do. I don't know yet. I also know that the choice may be made for me if H finds out.

 

Sabella- If you are comfortable answering, why did your marriage end?

[SomethingToSay]

Glad you are in IC. Unfortunately MC will not work while you are in the midst of an A. You have to quit the A or you are just wasting timecand money in MC. Plus, going to MC while betraying your spouse is a special form of cruel.

[Bufo]

You seem aware that "it will end". That's good as it will help you to get over its ending quicker than believing that the Affair Fairy will wave her magic wand and make the hurt vanish. Just read any 10 or so threads by OW and count how many A's turn out well and how many turn out with heartbreak. If that doesn't convince you, pick another ten threads and do the same math.

 

Your choice is apparent: current pleasure versus future anguish.

 

Find out what it is that led you to decide to engage in a PA instead of divorce. If BH discovers the affair (and remember that not even the head of the CIA could keep his secret) you may find yourself on a wild ride to divorce that you are stuck on until it's over on his terms. I've only been married once so it's a small sample--but learning from an IC that marriage requires compromise is hardly an earth shattering revelation or the reason you chose an A to fill some blank spaces in your life. The reason for the A must be deeper than that. Even if you don't love your H and the marriage dissolves, you'll be better for knowing what led you to choose this path. If you must have all facets of your personality in the forefront all the time, maybe marriage isn't for you.

[Sabella]

 

Sabella- If you are comfortable answering, why did your marriage end?

 

We are still married but separating for now to do individual counseling, I'm pretty new to these forums too actually.

 

The short of it is my H has some anger issues and alcohol abuse problems. We've tried working on them through counseling, and while the alcoholism is pretty non existent, the anger issues remain. Over the years, this caused me to loose all interest in him altogether, sexually and emotionally...which led to my 3 year A.

 

I disclosed the A to him shortly after it ended (ap ended ours and I was devistated, but understood it needed an end) While H was upset by my news, he wasn't surprised. He wants to work it out and I believe I'm beyond that.

 

Then there was an incident with his anger that made me realize he was probably never going to get control. I'm such a newbie that I don't know how to link my own thread...derp. If you click on my name you can find threads I started though.

[imsosad]

Paradoxx,

Sometimes it takes a long time for our hearts to catch up with our brains, and for our behaviour to match both.

I knew for the longest time that I needed to dislclose my A to my H, but while I knew it in my mind, it took month for my feeling to align. Even then, it took another while until I actually did it.

I feel your pain, I sense you feel lost, maybe a stranger to yourself.

It seems you are working on yourself to understand your own feelings and make better choices. While I agree that affairs are awful and better end asap, i think you are in the process of getting there. As you are not in love with your AP, and are not holding out in hopehe leaves his W, i say give yourself some time. Dont be so hard on yourself. You know you are ending this A, it just might take a bit longer than you'd hoped. Doing it before you're ready will increase the risk if breaking NC and so the cycle begins once more. Do it when you're good and ready.

[paradoxx]

I've been evaluating my feelings for AP. I think I've been trying to convince myself that I love my H for so long that I can't even tell what I genuinely feel for anyone other than my children. That's scary. So I'm going NC for now at least (I'm too chicken to say forever - sorry.) to see how that feels.

 

H is going to seek IC to deal with his issues as the MC suggested. We'll see how that goes.

[lemondrop21]

I've been evaluating my feelings for AP. I think I've been trying to convince myself that I love my H for so long that I can't even tell what I genuinely feel for anyone other than my children. That's scary. So I'm going NC for now at least (I'm too chicken to say forever - sorry.) to see how that feels.

 

H is going to seek IC to deal with his issues as the MC suggested. We'll see how that goes.

 

There are many different kinds of love. There is also lust, infatuation, codependency and a host of other feelings that can be mixed in with love or substituted for love.

 

You probably love your husband in some way. Whether it's in a way that will sustain your marriage over the long haul is another question.

 

Good for you for seeking IC and proactively trying to address your issues. And I agree with the earlier post that the A will end when one or both of you is good and ready for it to end. Your "trial NC" almost surely won't last, but the self-reflective quiet time may still be helpful.

[whichwayisup]

Hi. I'm a newbie but have been reading others' stories for a while trying to wrap my head around what I'm doing, going to do. It seems that most people start posting when they are looking to get out of their affair. I've read many encourage and advise those in affairs to get out, cut ties and run in the other directions.

 

I am a MW involved in a PA with a MM. We both have children and are unhappy in our marriages. On the surface things seem fine between my H and I and we do a good job as parenting partners and friends. I've realized; through IC, that I've had to compromise parts of my personality throughout my marriage and that's lead to my discontent and emotional disconnect. So, enter MM, who is younger and also unhappy with his marriage. We're not in love, and we know that this will end, we're just lonely and needing someone to appreciate us as we are without compromise. I know this is cake eating and I'm not proud of it or defending it. I feel so disconnected from my emotions that I don't know if I still love my husband but I also don't love my AP.

 

Honestly, I don't know what I'm going to do and all the convincing/ shaming/ reasoning may not sink in despite the warnings of others. What I'm looking for are others to talk to who may have gone through similar scenarios and what they learned. I WANT to want to stop. Some of you may just be angry with me. I read through Messy Lady's thread (who's honesty I appreciated) and took a lot of what was said to heart. My logical self nods in agreement with all of that advice. My emotions, however aren't cooperating.

 

Another option is, come clean and confess your affair to your husband. It may actually save your marriage or end it. Living in limbo is going to be stressful and emotional. Allowing your husband to know the truth IS going to end your affair.

[burnt]

I think I've been trying to convince myself that I love my H for so long that I can't even tell what I genuinely feel for anyone other than my children. That's scary.

 

Oh, yes, it is indeed frightening.

 

I didn't plan on or even foresee having an affair. I have been with my husband for over a decade and a half. I thought I was the luckiest and the happiest person alive. Since the turmoil of the affair and finding myself drowning in the confusion for three years, with the help of my therapist I am starting to see things that I never thought would even be possible.

 

It took me decade and half to finally open my eyes and what I have just realized is that I have been emotionally abused for this many years in my marriage and I had no clue. Yet, looking back now, I see every red flag glaring right at my face from the start. I ignored all the warning signs all along. I suspected nothing. And, with horror I also realize that on some subconscious level I must had known something was wrong.

 

It's so easy to think we know ourselves.

 

It's scary to find out how little we actually know ourselves. Our own minds are amazing mazes and we are capable of deluding ourselves to such limitless capacity.

 

It somehow all feels like a the worst form of betrayal--all self imposed.

[paradoxx]

I really want to say I love my H. He loves me, but I think he always knew that I didn't love him the same way and was okay with that. I can't remember what it felt like to be in love with him. But even before the affair, I knew I wasn't happy. I just never realized how unhappy I was and why.

 

The thing that really makes me think I must not love him is that I could knowingly enter into this affair and keep it up for months. How could I do this to someone I truly love?

 

I don't think I can leave my husband. But how can I remain in my marriage and stay sane? I want to just be content and grateful for what I have.

 

In MC, it was suggested that he get IC because there was a lot he had to deal with that was about his issues and until he sorted through that MC wouldn't be helpful. I'm waiting for him to do this.

[Arieswoman]

paradoxx,

you say

 

I WANT to want to stop.

 

however, unless you WANT to stop, nothing anyone says to you will have any effect.

 

The initial motivation must come from you.

 

A nurse friend of mine runs Stop Smoking support classes. If someone comes to her and says "I WANT to want to stop smoking" she'll turn them away. She tells them to come back when they actually WANT to quit. Got it?

[paradoxx]

paradoxx,

you say

 

 

 

however, unless you WANT to stop, nothing anyone says to you will have any effect.

 

The initial motivation must come from you.

 

A nurse friend of mine runs Stop Smoking support classes. If someone comes to her and says "I WANT to want to stop smoking" she'll turn them away. She tells them to come back when they actually WANT to quit. Got it?

 

Hi Arieswoman

 

I think that I am sloowwwly getting there.

 

I'm not on here expecting others to be able to convince me to stop.

I know that strength and conviction needs to come from me. When this first started and I knew the "innocent" texts were going somewhere bad, I consulted a close friend who strongly advised me to stop. Her words made perfect sense and I know she cares for me, but I still knew that I wasn't going to listen. I wondered why I'd bothered calling her when I wasn't going to listen to her warnings and i think it was because talking helped me figure out how deep I'd already gotten myself at that point. It made me face it and realize how much trouble I was in. I was weak. I still am...but I might be starting to gain a bit of strength to pull myself out of this. Not very strong words, I know, but I am trying to be honest.

 

So, by making a profile and posting here I'm facing that I want to stop.

I hope that this forum will let me be honest in this struggle. I won't give excuses or pretend to be where I'm not. The part of me that wants to stop just needs to grow more. I'm working on it.

[imsosad]

I really want to say I love my H. He loves me, but I think he always knew that I didn't love him the same way and was okay with that. I can't remember what it felt like to be in love with him. But even before the affair, I knew I wasn't happy. I just never realized how unhappy I was and why.

 

The thing that really makes me think I must not love him is that I could knowingly enter into this affair and keep it up for months. How could I do this to someone I truly love?

 

I don't think I can leave my husband. But how can I remain in my marriage and stay sane? I want to just be content and grateful for what I have.

 

In MC, it was suggested that he get IC because there was a lot he had to deal with that was about his issues and until he sorted through that MC wouldn't be helpful. I'm waiting for him to do this.

 

Oh, Paradoxx. I so,so get you. I felt like that for years and years. I spent years telling myself I was crazy for not going crazy my h who loves me so much. I spent months feeling broken because what woman in her right mind not be happy with a man who loves her so much?

It's really hard not loving back enough.

One of my closest friends divorced a man who was a good to her and the kids and loved her deeply. She struggled with the same feelings for years before saying,well, his feelings are not enough.

She recieved some harsh feedback all around for that.

You can appreciate and respect someone for being good to you,im not sure we can make ourselves reciprocate emotions.

I also tortured myself wondering how i could cheat on a wonderful man who loved me. Well, I did. Maybe if I had confronted my real feelings earlier, I could have coped better.

Anyway, I wanted to let you know that I really feel for you and think I understand some of what you're going through.

[lemondrop21]

I feel this way too, Paradoxx. The A was the trigger that made me end my LTR of 5 years that was headed for engagement. Had I been married, I imagine it would have taken me a lot longer to actually divorce - I was lucky that it was just a simple phone call for me, and some financial stuff to sort out.

 

But I am still dealing with the guilt a year later. It's guilt that I couldn't force myself to appreciate what I had - an incredibly devoted man with such high morals and pure love for me. He NEVER would have cheated on me and I would hesitate to say that about 98% of people, especially after the A... But even with the added perspective I've gained from the A, I just KNOW he never would have cheated.

 

I have thoughts like, what if my personality simply cannot "fall in love" with someone who is that good? Am I doomed to a lifetime of turbulence and broken relationships?

 

I also think, he (xbf) always deserved much better than me. I was never as invested in the relationship as he was. He appears to have found a girl who he is over the moon with now, although I know little about the relationship - and part of me is slightly jealous, but mostly just sad. Why couldn't I have been that girl who makes him feel adored and appreciated like never before? I don't know, Paradoxx, I just couldn't.

[whichwayisup]

I really want to say I love my H. He loves me, but I think he always knew that I didn't love him the same way and was okay with that. I can't remember what it felt like to be in love with him. But even before the affair, I knew I wasn't happy. I just never realized how unhappy I was and why.

 

The thing that really makes me think I must not love him is that I could knowingly enter into this affair and keep it up for months. How could I do this to someone I truly love?

 

I don't think I can leave my husband. But how can I remain in my marriage and stay sane? I want to just be content and grateful for what I have.

 

In MC, it was suggested that he get IC because there was a lot he had to deal with that was about his issues and until he sorted through that MC wouldn't be helpful. I'm waiting for him to do this.

 

Why can't you leave your husband? You aren't in love with him, you don't feel the same way towards his as he feels towards you. To stay in a marriage when you're not happy and only staying to keep him happy is wrong. He will hurt but he will get over it in time.

 

He shouldn't have to change because you chose to have an affair. You do counseling on your own. Try MC together regardless of who told you he should do IC first.

[Jersey born raised]

While it may be to forward, what are some of your husbands issues? What did your relationship with OM give you that was missing?

 

Please note while many of the posts on Messy ladies thread hold true in many cases, I firmly believe she is dealing with a player. Which may not be the case with you.

 

Finally how did the two of you meet?

[paradoxx]

The reason I struggle to leave is primarily, my kids. They're young and together we make a good parenting team.

 

I'm still trying to figure out what is wrong with me. I don't expect him to change. I know that is unfair and this leads me to my bouts of sadness. throughout the years Ive realized that in order to make things work for us, I need to deny some parts of myself that were key to me being me.

For example, I'm extroverted, but throughout the years h has been less and less willing to get together with others. If i invite someone over, he grumbles and makes the guest feel uncomfortable. So, I've withdrawn as well, which has made me a bit miserable and lonely. I do try to get out by myself, but it's disappointing to not socialize together. I've kind of been living with this assumption that I expect too much. Maybe I do. I can't blame him or expect him to change who he is. I feel like I made the choice to marry him, so I need to live with that. One thing that H said to me when we discussed this was that I needed to lower my expectations of marriage. He kind of shut me down, and shut down the idea of MC too. This was years ago and I think that's when I started building a wall and stopped fighting for my marriage. I didn't realize how bad it had gotten until the affair started.

 

My counselor seems to feel like I need to leave, but I panic at the thought of it. I also panic about staying and the affair is an escape from this awful decision that I'm putting off. That's why Im having a hard time letting go of it.

[paradoxx]

I feel this way too, Paradoxx. The A was the trigger that made me end my LTR of 5 years that was headed for engagement. Had I been married, I imagine it would have taken me a lot longer to actually divorce - I was lucky that it was just a simple phone call for me, and some financial stuff to sort out.

 

But I am still dealing with the guilt a year later. It's guilt that I couldn't force myself to appreciate what I had - an incredibly devoted man with such high morals and pure love for me. He NEVER would have cheated on me and I would hesitate to say that about 98% of people, especially after the A... But even with the added perspective I've gained from the A, I just KNOW he never would have cheated.

 

I have thoughts like, what if my personality simply cannot "fall in love" with someone who is that good? Am I doomed to a lifetime of turbulence and broken relationships?

 

I also think, he (xbf) always deserved much better than me. I was never as invested in the relationship as he was. He appears to have found a girl who he is over the moon with now, although I know little about the relationship - and part of me is slightly jealous, but mostly just sad. Why couldn't I have been that girl who makes him feel adored and appreciated like never before? I don't know, Paradoxx, I just couldn't.

 

Hi lemondrop,

 

I'm so sorry for all the hurt you've gone through. Try not to think of what you've lost. Jumping into marriage and commitment before I really knew what I needed may have been the mistake I made in the first place. (Although it is so hard to think of it as a mistake when I have wonderful children who I would never regret having). Whether you realize it or not, (I haven't read your entire thread yet) your ex may not have met an important need of yours which could have led to your A.

 

My h changed significantly from when we got engaged and some things that would have made me run away surfaced. You can never know what will happen in the future, but I don't think I was truly 100% ready to get married when I did. I just didn't know myself as well as I should have.

 

Take your relationships slowly and make sure you know yourself well before committing to marriage and/or children.