ex-EA MM angry my H doesn't respect him

[starglider]

I'm so confused.

 

It took me a long time to get over the fantasy aspect of an (quasi) emotional affair I was in. I say quasi because we weren't sexting or anything like that, but we were close and confided in each other about our respective M troubles, he'd share thing/do things and ask me not to tell his wife, he'd be protective of me when my H treated me badly and tell me to dump him, long hugs, we once said ILU, etc. So emotional boundaries of being close were crossed, but we were both push/pull and it not a bonafide affair. Even if MM saw me as only a close friend I know I felt closer to him than my H during that time.

 

When he texted me he was about to end his marriage after a long period of NC that I broke I was initially hopeful we'd both end up divorcing and try a real relationship. But the fantasy fell away for me, and my problem with bad boundaries was clearly something I want to fix in life. Our last face to face encounter felt like closure and I let him know to avoid my H. Told him H doesn't like the way he is with married women (esp me) and wants to punch him in the face. MM admitted my H must personify himself as the cause of our M troubles. (H and I have plenty of troubles unrelated to MM but H knows I felt close to MM). MM seemed to get it. I didn't share my feelings for MM at that point because the fantasy felt over - I felt for both of us (or felt MM maybe never had that fantasy as I had). Ran into him once and things seemed normal and fine.

 

Out of the blue I got an angry text from MM that he is upset he's persona non grata and was disgusted for not being invited to an event at the business my H and I own, a location we hired MM to work on. I texted I am sorry if he felt disgusted and does he want to talk. I thought it was odd he'd want to be invited to a party with H and me. He refused to talk to me in person, ignored my texts, finally said he'd talk in a few days. Then he said he'd only talk to me with my H at our business together and we can tell him why he isn't welcome. I tried to talk openly in text but he was sarcastic, short, rude in his replies.

 

I spelled it out through text more clearly my H was jealous that I admired MM, respected him, enjoyed collaborating with him, felt close to him when I didn't feel that way about my H. So my H doesn't want to interact with him. MM knows I'm separated but we still run our biz together.

 

"Maybe your husband needs to learn a little respect." This comment made no sense to me. It came after saying "another *sshole client" about my H (or me or us both?)

 

I just ended it by telling MM he means a lot to me. I felt like I "saw him" and felt seen by him. I felt reminded of who I am and life is more than enduring an unhappy marriage. He's made a difference in my life. I'm thankful for him and who he is.

 

He did not reply this. I knew he wouldn't - it is the push/pull thing.

 

I don't understand if he thinks no line was crossed and my H has no right to dislike him. Why would he want to meet with us both? Why does he want my H to respect him? MM has never had any respect for my H, has always belittled him, so why now does he demand respect? If he is mad the fantasy is over, why isn't he just mad at me - why is it about my H?

 

It is a strange ending.

Edited October 28, 2015 by starglider

[summerdowling87]

Why does he want my H to respect

 

Sounds like your OM is a narcissistic.

[Popsicle]

He wants to be and feel squeaky clean.

[anika99]

Well of course the exMM doesn't respect your husband. You two bonded over your mutual disrespect of your husband. Also since the affair is over don't you think you should stop stroking this guys ego? Why don't you ask him why he wants your husband respect when he has no respect for your husband? Better yet just tell him to take his complaint up with your husband. You can't make your husband respect him so what's he whining to you for? Instead of hiding in the shadows and sniveling to you about all the respect he thinks he deserves from your husband, tell him to be a man and go talk to your husband face to face.

[Poppy47]

He's a lunatic.

Let him get in contact with you husband and maybe the punch in the nose will bring him back to earth.

Poppy.

[goodyblue]

I am pretty sure this isn't the wild west and telling OP to recommend confrontation with h and MM is not helpful. What doesn't need to happen here is physical violence. OP needs to move on from MM and not worry about what he thinks. It isn't her problem, certainly not her h's either. Just let it go.

[starglider]

Well I wish I hadn't given MM so much validation in our final words. He was so angry and childish in his interaction style, I felt sure this encounter had triggered something else for him, maybe an old childhood wound.

 

So I projected if I were in that situation and was feeling discarded I would want to hear validation, that I mattered, that I was seen, etc. But that was inappropriate of me. He just wanted to send anger my way for whatever reason and I shouldn't have engaged him more.

 

It just makes me dread running into him. But I'm the one that made this bed and now I've got to deal with it.

[privategal]

I think hes angry because it seems it was unrequited and your crush on him is now costing him professionally.

He is comfortable meeting with you and your husband together because he felt he had nothing to hide. You saw it as an A if sorts...he did not.

[stillafool]

 

 

It just makes me dread running into him. But I'm the one that made this bed and now I've got to deal with it.

 

Yes you made this bed. You should have stuck to NC and not contacted him in the first place.

[starglider]

He is comfortable meeting with you and your husband together because he felt he had nothing to hide. You saw it as an A if sorts...he did not.

 

Yes, I thought this too, but if it all comes out in front of our M partners, there are plenty of examples I could produce that show he was promoting a fantasy bond (or narcissistically leading me on) and I was guilty of it too.

 

It was an archetypal damsel-in-distress meets hero/superman rescuer fantasy.

 

- asking me to drive him home, giving me a tour of his house and bed room and everything he built, probing me about my stress over my aging parents, when I'd cry he'd hug me and say "Is your H helping you? I'll fly out and help them move if you want me to."

- asking if I'm alone, showing up and giving me a big long hug, texting me "I'm desperate … you are the only one I can turn to."

- I was having problems with another contractor. He asked why my H wasn't stepping up to fix it. He offered to go after the guy. "I don't give a damn what [other contractor] thinks about me. You tell him I'm be there at 9:00 am tomorrow." And when I offered to help … "No, I don't need your help. I'm not being macho, I just don't want you to get hurt."

- telling me he's lost his car keys, can I bring him lunch at his work, showing me his studio when we're alone, having me handle his working tools, telling me he's never before shown a client this space but he wanted to show me "where all the magic happens."

- I messed something up. He said "I can never be mad at you, we're the same. Even [my wife] knows that you and I are the same" and he relayed snide comments she made about me.

- Many more examples.

 

Now that I see the fantasy escape for what it was, I'd be ashamed to admit my role and these details to my H or his wife. So I don't know why he'd push for this level of disclosure.

 

Even though there was no sex, we both crossed the line with the fantasy role-playing.

[Ms. Faust]

Yes, I thought this too, but if it all comes out in front of our M partners, there are plenty of examples I could produce that show he was promoting a fantasy bond (or narcissistically leading me on) and I was guilty of it too.

 

It was an archetypal damsel-in-distress meets hero/superman rescuer fantasy.

 

- asking me to drive him home, giving me a tour of his house and bed room and everything he built, probing me about my stress over my aging parents, when I'd cry he'd hug me and say "Is your H helping you? I'll fly out and help them move if you want me to."

- asking if I'm alone, showing up and giving me a big long hug, texting me "I'm desperate … you are the only one I can turn to."

- I was having problems with another contractor. He asked why my H wasn't stepping up to fix it. He offered to go after the guy. "I don't give a damn what [other contractor] thinks about me. You tell him I'm be there at 9:00 am tomorrow." And when I offered to help … "No, I don't need your help. I'm not being macho, I just don't want you to get hurt."

- telling me he's lost his car keys, can I bring him lunch at his work, showing me his studio when we're alone, having me handle his working tools, telling me he's never before shown a client this space but he wanted to show me "where all the magic happens."

- I messed something up. He said "I can never be mad at you, we're the same. Even [my wife] knows that you and I are the same" and he relayed snide comments she made about me.

- Many more examples.

 

Now that I see the fantasy escape for what it was, I'd be ashamed to admit my role and these details to my H or his wife. So I don't know why he'd push for this level of disclosure.

 

Even though there was no sex, we both crossed the line with the fantasy role-playing.

 

I think almost all of what he said can go either way... from context, I kind of got that he saw you as a very close friend, but nothing that I would say was emotional in the way lovers are.

 

From your story and what you reported he said, I don't think he realized you were as invested in the relationship as you were. It sounds like this is more of a one sided emotional affair, which would explain why he was baffled as to why he was not invited.

 

He also sounds like a people pleaser, someone who doesn't want anyone mad at him.

 

Calling him a lunatic or a narcissist is harsh in this case, imo. It sounds more like you two were on totally different levels. I think he unwittingly led you on.

[stillafool]

I'm sorry but I agree with Ms. Faust, he just sounds very friendly and I didn't pick up any romantic interest from what you wrote, just very caring about other people. I do the same things for folks and I hope they don't get the wrong impression as you are. I think your feelings are deeper for him than his for you.

[starglider]

But what confuses me is these were encounters in private used in a tone of voice that was intimate and close. A seductive, low voice, standing squarely to me, looking at me. Then he'd switch back to a more regular style of interaction after these moments.

 

I can't possibly imagine him speaking that way to me in these situations with my spouse in the room or his wife there. The time he told me he loved me was delivered in this tone of voice when we were alone. I have male friends who I probably love on some level, but I wouldn't tell them in a slow, low voice when we were alone in a room together.

 

Another time he talked to me this way while taking hold of my hand in both of his. He heard my husband walking up the stairs and quickly let go of my hand, got up from the chair, said a breezy hello to my H and bolted quickly.

 

When you interact with a person of the opposite sex in a way that you wouldn't if their spouse or your spouse was present, isn't that a sign of poor boundaries? That is what my therapist says. She says people do this for a quick high or thrill because there is some hole inside that gets bored easily. She thinks my H is justified in not wanting to interact with him even though we were never lovers, just because he (and I) had poor boundaries as married people. Any time you insert your self or another between a primary marriage bond is inappropriate, she maintains, even a "don't tell my wife I'm going to do this for you ..." or "don't tell her I told you this but ..."

[sandylee1]

I disagree with some posters..boundaries were definitely crossed here. When you start discussing your husband and his wife. ...in a non complimentary manner...it's moved to an EA.

 

Stop telling him your H is jealous because you respect him. You joined together to disregard your husband to him and now he doesn't like being squeezed out. I suggest you block his number and don't entertain any conversation with him.

 

I'm pretty sure he wouldn't be happy for another man to talk to his wife about him, in the way he was talking about your H.

 

He's acting like a sulking kid right now.

[Woggle]

It's really strange that a man wouldn't respect somebody who was trying to put the moves on his wife. If there is anybody a man should respect that should be it.

[Ms. Faust]

I disagree with some posters..boundaries were definitely crossed here. When you start discussing your husband and his wife. ...in a non complimentary manner...it's moved to an EA.

 

 

I agree that is the case, whether or not the MM was aware of how emotionally invested the OP was is up for debate. A lot of people will discuss relationship issues, not realizing they are in an emotional affair. This could have very well been the case here.

 

Even the OP isn't 100% sure where she stood in regards to the MM's feelings, and whether he saw what they did as affair territory:

 

I'm so confused.

 

... Even if MM saw me as only a close friend I know I felt closer to him than my H during that time.

 

...I didn't share my feelings for MM at that point because the fantasy felt over - I felt for both of us (or felt MM maybe never had that fantasy as I had).

Edited October 29, 2015 by Ms. Faust

[OldRover]

.........................

 

 

When you interact with a person of the opposite sex in a way that you wouldn't if their spouse or your spouse was present, isn't that a sign of poor boundaries? That is what my therapist says. She says people do this for a quick high or thrill because there is some hole inside that gets bored easily. She thinks my H is justified in not wanting to interact with him even though we were never lovers, just because he (and I) had poor boundaries as married people. Any time you insert your self or another between a primary marriage bond is inappropriate, she maintains, even a "don't tell my wife I'm going to do this for you ..." or "don't tell her I told you this but ..."

 

You CLEARLY had and affair, even though it was emotional only (so far). If I were your husband, I wouldn't like the guy either, and if I knew the whole story, I'd be livid, besides totally hurt.

 

You've done the damage, now you need to fix it. Hope you can.

[anika99]

But what confuses me is these were encounters in private used in a tone of voice that was intimate and close. A seductive, low voice, standing squarely to me, looking at me. Then he'd switch back to a more regular style of interaction after these moments.

 

I can't possibly imagine him speaking that way to me in these situations with my spouse in the room or his wife there. The time he told me he loved me was delivered in this tone of voice when we were alone. I have male friends who I probably love on some level, but I wouldn't tell them in a slow, low voice when we were alone in a room together.

 

Another time he talked to me this way while taking hold of my hand in both of his. He heard my husband walking up the stairs and quickly let go of my hand, got up from the chair, said a breezy hello to my H and bolted quickly.

 

When you interact with a person of the opposite sex in a way that you wouldn't if their spouse or your spouse was present, isn't that a sign of poor boundaries? That is what my therapist says. She says people do this for a quick high or thrill because there is some hole inside that gets bored easily. She thinks my H is justified in not wanting to interact with him even though we were never lovers, just because he (and I) had poor boundaries as married people. Any time you insert your self or another between a primary marriage bond is inappropriate, she maintains, even a "don't tell my wife I'm going to do this for you ..." or "don't tell her I told you this but ..."

 

Starglider he absolutely was leading you on and he damn well knew what he was doing and that it was wrong. I too disagree with the posters saying he didn't see it the way you do. I bet he wasn't hugging you and telling you he loved you in front of his wife or your husband because he bloody well knew that was inappropriate. It was an EA and he is no innocent unknowing victim of your fantasies. He may not have been as emotionally invested as you were but he was stirring you up emotionally so that you would give him the ego strokes that he should have only been getting from his wife. I stand by what I said before. If he has a problem with your husband he should take it up with him.

[Bufo]

Tell him you learned from watching Downton Abbey that in polite society the hired help never gets invited to the party. That will set him off for sure and you'll see the Narcissim in him very clearly

 

Most cheating men are after one thing. And the thrill of the stalking just adds to the excitement.