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Stuck and can't breathe


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I've got such a mundane situation. Have a mm who I love. Affair has lasts 7 years on and off. His wife is successful and in the same business community as mm and myself. They haven't had sex or any intimacy of any sort in 10 years (seriously). They have a business relationship. He is waiting things out until his oldest daughter leaves for college (the oldest and the wife have a tumultuous relationship and he's never wanted to leave whilst the oldest is on the house). At that point we don't know what will happen - my guess is that we will take things slowly and live apart for as long as needed. I have a child from a prior marriage, and he is my world, my priority. My biggest fear is that he (my child) will someday learn of the origins of my R with mm, if we end up together, and I will let him down in a very large way. I'm not dependent or in a fog - my priority is my child, but I also know beyond a shadow of a doubt that I love mm, and it is unlikely there will be anyone else for me. If I decide the relationship would be bad for my child, I will be willing to dump it. I love mm, but love my child more. Advice needed, harsh and nice.

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Personally I think it is borrowing trouble to wonder if your child finds out at this point. Cross the bridge of daughter going to college and him leaving Wife then start broaching how to handle things if son finds out. Anyone who starts a relationship via an affair I would recommend couples counseling for a bit, and the subject can be brought up then.

 

But right now I think it is irrelevant because plans can change between now and when he leaves.

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How many more years before the MM's daughter leaves for college? What makes you so certain that the MM will leave then? What will you do if he doesn't leave? Lastly is his wife aware that her marriage is just a business arrangement and that her husband plans to divorce her?

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How many more years before the MM's daughter leaves for college? What makes you so certain that the MM will leave then? What will you do if he doesn't leave? Lastly is his wife aware that her marriage is just a business arrangement and that her husband plans to divorce her?

 

 

I would also bet she is unaware that she hasn't had sex with her husband in over 10 years.

 

I honestly never can understand how so many women buy that one.

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It's never go to happen.

 

Relax, and really make your child your priority by giving this man the flick.

 

In the future, your child might not thank you for the turmoil that will happen in MM leaves (fairytale) and you are together.

 

Poppy.

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Men, both single and married, tell whoppers to impress women, but your odds as a woman are much better with a single man in his efforts to make those promises come true.

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How many more years before the MM's daughter leaves for college? What makes you so certain that the MM will leave then? What will you do if he doesn't leave? Lastly is his wife aware that her marriage is just a business arrangement and that her husband plans to divorce her?

 

This is why it's getting harder and harder for me to breathe at night. I've been following this forum for about 6 months (stalker-ish I know), and it's dawning on me that I've been completely duped by someone I thought loved me and who I thought I trusted, and that I am an utterly horrible person for getting in between a marriage.

 

The daughter is supposed to go to College next September. To be honest, I don't think he is capable of malicious deceit, but I do think he's convinced himself of things, and me in the process, to hang on to me. I do believe he and his wife have a "hands off" marriage in every respect. I know her (not friends with her) and I have heard it from others. They do not vacation together or even go out together. But what I'm learning from this forum is that none of that matters - in the end it won't be happy, however it turns out. It's an incredibly sad and depressing realization, and I feel like a loser for it all. He's asking me to hang on until next September. If it weren't for this forum, I would agree. Now I am so uncertain of everything, and scared to death for my mental health and my daughter's health and happiness.

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Oh, and he says the wife knows about the divorce and the September time table, and that they're having near nightly conversations about it. I'm not sure whether to believe it any more.

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Even if he somehow keeps his word(which is a laughable concept given what he's doing to the woman he made vows to) and he leaves his wife for you after his daughter goes to college(which almost never happens BTW), it's still pretty much a guarantee that your son will eventually learn the truth about your affair. How would he not?

 

The OM's wife is not gonna just take all of this lying down and when she learns what's really going on you can bet the farm that both your son and his daughter and anybody else she can find to tell are gonna hear about it.(and that's her right BTW) Betrayed wives are a slightly different animal than betrayed husbands. They're encouraged by society to shout their spouse's affair from the rooftops since it's not typically seen as a reflection of any kind of shortcomings on their part as is usually the case when a husband gets cheated on.

 

If your genders were all reversed then I'd say there was a chance of the spouse keeping this to themselves due to their shame and humiliation but that's almost certainly not gonna happen in your case. And unless his wife is the worst mother of all time, like 'mommie dearest' level awful, then the daughter will absolutely side with her mom against you and her father which will only complicate things further. Either way you're in for a world of sh*t.

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This is why it's getting harder and harder for me to breathe at night. I've been following this forum for about 6 months (stalker-ish I know), and it's dawning on me that I've been completely duped by someone I thought loved me and who I thought I trusted, and that I am an utterly horrible person for getting in between a marriage.

 

The daughter is supposed to go to College next September. To be honest, I don't think he is capable of malicious deceit, but I do think he's convinced himself of things, and me in the process, to hang on to me. I do believe he and his wife have a "hands off" marriage in every respect. I know her (not friends with her) and I have heard it from others. They do not vacation together or even go out together. But what I'm learning from this forum is that none of that matters - in the end it won't be happy, however it turns out. It's an incredibly sad and depressing realization, and I feel like a loser for it all. He's asking me to hang on until next September. If it weren't for this forum, I would agree. Now I am so uncertain of everything, and scared to death for my mental health and my daughter's health and happiness.

 

Okay so you know her and you have heard from others about their sexless business arrangement marriage. Since you and a bunch of other people know so much about this marriage and its intimate details then the upcoming divorce must also be common knowledge right? I mean if everyone knows exactly what the MM and his wife are doing behind closed doors at night then they must all know about their plan to divorce in less than a year. Have you heard about these divorce plans from others too? Surely the people gossiping about this BW and her marriage wouldn't leave out that juicy bit of info. Maybe the next time you see the wife you should walk up to her, tell her you heard she was getting divorced and offer your condolences. She won't mind because she knows she's getting divorced and lots of people know all the details of her marriage.

 

 

The daughter is his oldest child right? What exactly does he think his wife will do to his oldest kid when he leaves? Kill her? I mean the girl must be around 17yrs old now. She could pretty much decide who she is going to live with should her father leave. He has younger children still at home correct? I can see the writing on the wall already. After the oldest leaves he will tell you that now his wife is picking on the younger kid(s) since the daughter is gone and she can't pick on her anymore. Then he will have to stay longer to protect the younger ones from his evil wife.

 

He is not leaving. He managed to use his daughter to buy him time for seven years. When that excuse runs out he will just start using his other kids as an excuse.

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gettingstronger

As a parent of a college student, I can tell you-them leaving for college does not change the relationship- home is still home the first few years of college-even if his excuse is legit, he will find sending her off to school changes the physical location but not the dynamic all that much so......plus with other kids at home I can not see this being his leaving point if he has already had both of you for 7 years plus-

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I have no way to know if your MM will leave or not. Every situation is unique because the players involved are unique.

 

I will give you my insight. My father gave similar reasoning on not leaving when we have discussed my parents divorce. He worried about my mom with my brother as they seemed to have a difficult relationship. He also did not think financially he could support two households (my mom was a SAHM most of my childhood), and so he wanted until the youngest left for college and they divorced that year.

 

My husband planned to wait until the kids were grown when he divorced but our affair spend things up and he ended up divorcing earlier than his time frame. That would have been more than 5 years and I was not interested in being in an affair that long though I respected his view point on waiting.

 

Has your MM lied to you that you are aware of? Has he been open and transparent? Each situation is different but I know that my MM/husband was open with me so that while I took some things with a grain of salt I did not have evidence of him deceiving me nor has that ever come to fruition. I had access to emails, technology, etc. that things were pretty much on the up and up. So while I knew making the jump to divorce is a hard one that may not have happened I did not question whether or not I had been fed a bunch of bull.

 

In regards to you son finding out. Well that is a game of russian roulette you are currently playing. Your son could find out tomorrow potentially. Something you need to think about and work through. Have you talked to an IC? They might be able to help you look at this.

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I have no way to know if your MM will leave or not. Every situation is unique because the players involved are unique.

 

I will give you my insight. My father gave similar reasoning on not leaving when we have discussed my parents divorce. He worried about my mom with my brother as they seemed to have a difficult relationship. He also did not think financially he could support two households (my mom was a SAHM most of my childhood), and so he wanted until the youngest left for college and they divorced that year.

 

My husband planned to wait until the kids were grown when he divorced but our affair spend things up and he ended up divorcing earlier than his time frame. That would have been more than 5 years and I was not interested in being in an affair that long though I respected his view point on waiting.

 

Has your MM lied to you that you are aware of? Has he been open and transparent? Each situation is different but I know that my MM/husband was open with me so that while I took some things with a grain of salt I did not have evidence of him deceiving me nor has that ever come to fruition. I had access to emails, technology, etc. that things were pretty much on the up and up. So while I knew making the jump to divorce is a hard one that may not have happened I did not question whether or not I had been fed a bunch of bull.

 

In regards to you son finding out. Well that is a game of russian roulette you are currently playing. Your son could find out tomorrow potentially. Something you need to think about and work through. Have you talked to an IC? They might be able to help you look at this.

 

Thank you for the insight and your experience - it's hard to post on this type of forum generalities because you're right - every situation is different. He has never lied to me that I'm aware of, and I believe him that he is in a loveless marriage. He gave me full access to communications and technology years ago but I don't feel comfortable taking advantage of that - it is too intrusive (ironic I know). Based on this forum, I've also told him that if he leaves her, she deserves to know about the A and I deserve whatever fall out that comes from it.

 

She is currently applying for a significant job across the country, and that is open knowledge. It is also open knowledge that MM will not be going with her if she relocates. There is gossip in circles that they are splitting, and she's spoken to him about the gossip because someone told her they heard they were getting a divorce, and she's not ready to message it yet. It is not clear what her plans are with the remaining 2 kids. She has talked about commuting back 2-4 times/month over the weekends.

 

I have been in IC for four years. Frankly I'm so embarrassed and depressed to be in this situation, I have a hard time talking to her about it often. My anxiety over all of it is coming to a head, especially after reading this forum. As Horton said, it will likely be a sh*t show no matter what, and the kids (mm's and mine) don't deserve to take that on. It is so sad and depressing. Truth be told, I don't want to co-habitate with him until after my kid leaves home and his kids leave home, so I am not wanting or anticipating some sort of fairy tale wedding or open R immediately after their D, but I also think that mindset leaves me stuck in this unhealthy situation.

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I'm confused. Do you have a son or a daughter, or both? And how old? Do they know him? Why are you worried about them finding out? I mean, you're a single parent and can pretty much do what you want, right? I understand that mothers want to be a role model and therefore want their children to think highly of them, but in your case, since you've been involved professionally with MM, the relationship can be explained to them as something that developed from a business relationship to a friendship to a relationship. Why would they question the timeframe, unless some third party wants them to know...??

 

As far as children, I'd be more worried about his kids, since they're the ones who will be facing divorcing parents (if it does happen) and their dad with a new romantic partner.

 

If they are really already talking divorce, then ask him how exactly he's preparing. Has he seen a lawyer, just to get a general opinion early on? Has he consulted with anybody else, friends, family? Are he and his stbxw talking finances etc.etc. After 7 years I'm thinking you should have a solid basis for a discussion of that type, without you appearing to be "demanding", whiny or needy. It's just a talk about facts, and if you love him, it's worth it and needs to be done. You will see from his willingness to openly discuss those facts whether or not he's just future faking or if his plans are serious. If the M is dead, it's dead.

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I'm confused. Do you have a son or a daughter, or both? And how old? Do they know him? Why are you worried about them finding out? I mean, you're a single parent and can pretty much do what you want, right? I understand that mothers want to be a role model and therefore want their children to think highly of them, but in your case, since you've been involved professionally with MM, the relationship can be explained to them as something that developed from a business relationship to a friendship to a relationship. Why would they question the timeframe, unless some third party wants them to know...??

 

As far as children, I'd be more worried about his kids, since they're the ones who will be facing divorcing parents (if it does happen) and their dad with a new romantic partner.

 

If they are really already talking divorce, then ask him how exactly he's preparing. Has he seen a lawyer, just to get a general opinion early on? Has he consulted with anybody else, friends, family? Are he and his stbxw talking finances etc.etc. After 7 years I'm thinking you should have a solid basis for a discussion of that type, without you appearing to be "demanding", whiny or needy. It's just a talk about facts, and if you love him, it's worth it and needs to be done. You will see from his willingness to openly discuss those facts whether or not he's just future faking or if his plans are serious. If the M is dead, it's dead.

 

I have just one son - reference to daughter meant his daughters and was an early morning typo, and by the time I tried to edit it it was too late bc I had already posted something else below it. You are right on all of it - we have know each other professionally for years. Only way for kid to find out is if someone told him (ie the W). I'm very worried about his kids also.

 

As far as the D, from what he has said they've talked finances. She's consulted with a lawyer, he has not. He has given me a written road map of what it all looks like financially for him (not that I care).

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I don't see what you're worried about then.

She seems to be on the same page as far as D is concerned, so why do you think she'd be vindictive? This doesn't sound like a happy M. He's open with friends and family. I've seen worse scenarios. Seriously. And you love him. I mean, there's something there if it lasts 7 years, whether or not the general public wants to hear it and whether or not it's "socially acceptable". Sure it's going to be difficult, as it always is with kids involved. And I completely understand that you don't want to live together, until your son is out of the house. Kids come first, and even though many do the patchwork thing, I share your opinion. It's easier to be independent and to raise your kids by yourself. I wouldn't do it any other way, either. I think you're just worried that he might get cold feet in the end. And that's always possible. Many do. But as I said, the situation you are describing sounds much better and much more reasonable than most others. People do get divorced and people remarry, even with kids involved and with APs involved. Fact.

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Another element to throw out there for better or worse. They have been married for 23 years. 10 years ago (before I was in the picture) they were talking divorce, and right during that time their middle daughter got very sick - like dying sick. She lived for almost a year at CHOP. They mutually agreed to wait things out based on that and it has been a lengthy recovery process. Their daughter is doing much, much better now and the health problems, while still present, are not as severe and are totally managed. From what I understand the D conversations have always been right beneath the surface. That doesn't excuse my role in things or my insertion into their marriage, but it gives additional insight into things.

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I don't see what you're worried about then.

She seems to be on the same page as far as D is concerned, so why do you think she'd be vindictive? This doesn't sound like a happy M. He's open with friends and family. I've seen worse scenarios. Seriously. And you love him. I mean, there's something there if it lasts 7 years, whether or not the general public wants to hear it and whether or not it's "socially acceptable". Sure it's going to be difficult, as it always is with kids involved. And I completely understand that you don't want to live together, until your son is out of the house. Kids come first, and even though many do the patchwork thing, I share your opinion. It's easier to be independent and to raise your kids by yourself. I wouldn't do it any other way, either. I think you're just worried that he might get cold feet in the end. And that's always possible. Many do. But as I said, the situation you are describing sounds much better and much more reasonable than most others. People do get divorced and people remarry, even with kids involved and with APs involved. Fact.

 

My worry is primarily for the kids, and it also comes from reading this forum. If he doesn't leave, it means that I have been duped in a bad way. Deserved way, yes. But reading what other OW have gone through on this forum when they find out they've just been strung along is terrible. The second element is the BW. She doesn't and didn't deserve this. They didn't have an open M, and I feel enormous guilt. I feel like regardless of the circumstances, she deserves to know. So the problem is that I love him, but I fear that love has made me blind, and even if it hasn't and they do D next year, I don't know how this possibly can work. It feels hopeless no matter which way I turn.

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My worry is primarily for the kids, and it also comes from reading this forum. If he doesn't leave, it means that I have been duped in a bad way. Deserved way, yes. But reading what other OW have gone through on this forum when they find out they've just been strung along is terrible. The second element is the BW. She doesn't and didn't deserve this. They didn't have an open M, and I feel enormous guilt. I feel like regardless of the circumstances, she deserves to know. So the problem is that I love him, but I fear that love has made me blind, and even if it hasn't and they do D next year, I don't know how this possibly can work. It feels hopeless no matter which way I turn.

 

If other people in his circle already know about you, and because it's been 7 years, she's most probably not completely clueless. She might have an inkling, at least. Plus, they've been talking D on and off for 10 years, so it's obviously not you who initiated and/or triggered things.

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Over 20 years? Is he in the U.S.? Is Wife employed, and her pay less? He can be looking at taking a significant financial blow for that length of a marriage. He has no idea unless he consults a lawyer.

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Grapesofwrath

All things considered, it sounds like you have more transparency and credibility with your MM than most on this site. You will have to see if he lives up to his word to leave in the agreed timeframe. That will tell you a lot.

 

You are wise to proceed with your eyes wide open. Prioritizing the kids is essential, as you know. Then you watch to see if his actions demonstrate what you want to see. Actions vs. words.

 

I think one of the key issues you will need to work through with your MM, if you are to have a successful relationship going forward, is trust. Can you fully trust him? You have had a front row seat for 7 years to his lies, deception, and conflict avoidance. If the two of you are to succeed as a couple in the "real world" you will have to find a way to trust him, knowing all that you know. Not impossible, but definitely challenging.

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Over 20 years? Is he in the U.S.? Is Wife employed, and her pay less? He can be looking at taking a significant financial blow for that length of a marriage. He has no idea unless he consults a lawyer.

 

MM's W - according to OP - is planning on moving across the country for professional reasons, without family/hubby. So yes she has a job and probably not a burger-flipping one, either. But I agree. He needs to consult a lawyer. His W already did.

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I have just one son - reference to daughter meant his daughters and was an early morning typo, and by the time I tried to edit it it was too late bc I had already posted something else below it. You are right on all of it - we have know each other professionally for years. Only way for kid to find out is if someone told him (ie the W). I'm very worried about his kids also.

 

As far as the D, from what he has said they've talked finances. She's consulted with a lawyer, he has not. He has given me a written road map of what it all looks like financially for him (not that I care).

 

Okay she is aware of the divorce, she has consulted a lawyer and she is moving away. Assuming that all of this is true, what is the problem. Sounds like everything is going according to plan and best of all the wife is even moving to a new location altogether. Sounds like the perfect scenario to me, why are you stressing? You have been waiting for years, why is it that now that you are down to the last year you suddenly feel stuck and like you can't breathe?

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Over 20 years? Is he in the U.S.? Is Wife employed, and her pay less? He can be looking at taking a significant financial blow for that length of a marriage. He has no idea unless he consults a lawyer.

 

This is true too. He told her 7 years ago he was in love with me, as crazy as that sounds. She has not raised it but a couple of times. She has never asked if there was an A. I don't know why anyone would want to stay in a marriage like that but I am not in a position to judge.

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