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what to do when there are 4 involved


2ndgenrationOW

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2ndgenrationOW

I have tried to leave my MM about 5 times now but we both always stay. The big thing now is i am now seeing another guy who is single and sort of keeping things with my MM. today my MM and I had a chance to sleep together and we did not do cause i did not want either of us to regret it. Little back ground him and have been together for almost 7 months and have not had sex yet. My new guy does not want a GF but then acts in a way like we are dating but that is another problem. I know that if my MM left his wife i would be at his side in a heart beat because i love him. My question is what do i do about loving my MM and likening the new guy and not hurting either one?

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You could and should be honest with the new guy since he doesn't want a GF right now he shouldn't have a problem with it. And your MM doesn't have/shouldn't have ANYTHING to say about it!

 

 

So IMHO BE HONEST WITH EVERYONE INVOLVED! Honesty is the best policy!

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Ya, I agree with Barby. Dont be afraid of being honest with them all.

 

1. You tell MM that you have met someone that interests you and you may pursue something.

.....its either going to scare him into realizing that he is going to lose you and push him to give you a Real relationship, not an affair. ...... or, he is going to let you go because he knows he cannot give you what you deserve. Either way, you win.

 

2. You tell new guy: I have been seeing someone whom I really like, but he is in a situation that i am not sure he will ever get out. I like you as well and am interested in seeing where this goes.

Again, if he leaves (you said he is not interested in having a GF) or if he stays (your charming ways have changed his mind and now he wants to see where this will go).. either way, you win.

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2ndgenrationOW

my new guy knows about my MM he just thinks that we ended things around the time i meet him. the new guy and i hang out all the time and do other things. but i just want to figure out what to do about ending things with my MM seeing how i am so in love with him but know i can not have him which is why i am now with the new guy.

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I think I just realized how young Barby and Grinning Maniac are...

Makes it a lot more difficult to take their advice.

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Understand first, you don't owe MM anything, zip, zilch, nada.. he's married and it isn't to you.. so yeah..

Secondly.. New Guy.. IF he isn't about being "exclusive" with you, the 2 of you've not agreed to be ONLY with one another, then again.. you don't him anything either..

 

AND just an observation.. seems you have an attraction for guys that aren't really "available" to you emotionally or otherwise.. maybe it isn't so much that the guys you choose aren't the only ones not ready or down for committment..

 

Good Luck

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Originally posted by savethedrama4yrmama

How old are you, KMT?

 

 

First of all, those two folks are under 20, as far as I know, and yet they speak of relationships, marriage, etc., as if they have had a lifetime of relationships and experience upon which to draw from.

 

I'm almost 28. Granted, I am on the younger side as well, but I can tell you that I know now that there is a HUGE difference between under-20 and 28.

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savethedrama4allama

Barby isn't under 20, to my recollection. She just looks young.

 

And as a matter of fact, I think she referred to her ex as an ex-husband. If thats right, then I'd say she knows a thing or two about marriage and love.

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Originally posted by savethedrama4yrmama

Barby isn't under 20, to my recollection. She just looks young.

 

Barby ISN'T under 20, AND she has been married, divorced and gone through her own fair share of crappy relationships..

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Originally posted by KissMyTiara

I think I just realized how young Barby and Grinning Maniac are...

Makes it a lot more difficult to take their advice.

 

 

Hey I'm 24 with A LOT of life experience...abusive marriage (sadly messed with a total of 2 married men (when I was younger) :( ), bad long term relationship, past drug addiction, been abused (sexually)...I could go on and on but this isn't my thread! I don't "give advice" to preach or anything and my age shouldn't have to do with my trying to help. If you don't want to take my advice, then don't but i won't stop attempting to give it though! ;) And if memory serves correct you're not much older than me anyway! :)

 

Thanks guys for correcting KMT! :)

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I'm sorry, I was wrong. :eek: Perhaps it was someone else in addition to GM.

 

It's just that a couple days ago I was perusing "Dating" or some other forum here and it was clear from their posts that they were under 20 (GM said 20 years was longer than he was alive and the "Barby"-like one said she just graduated high school.)

 

My bad! I fess up! :o

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Originally posted by KissMyTiara

I'm sorry, I was wrong. :eek: Perhaps it was someone else in addition to GM.

 

It's just that a couple days ago I was perusing "Dating" or some other forum here and it was clear from their posts that they were under 20 (GM said 20 years was longer than he was alive and the "Barby"-like one said she just graduated high school.)

 

My bad! I fess up! :o

 

 

 

hahaha! No problem, you're not the only one thinking I'm some young girly :confused: ! Hahaha!

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Grinning Maniac

I'm 19 years old. I'll be 20 in March. It's not exactly like I've kept my age a secret. Does the avatar of me (which I mentioned was of me) look like a "greying old man" to you? ;)

 

In any case, you can feel free to not take me seriously just because I'm younger than you... but I think that's a pretty bad excuse. For one thing, a normal person doesn't NEED to personally experience a bad situation to know not to get into that kind of situation in the first place, or to get out as soon as possible. I don't need to get into a shootout with the police to know how likely it is that I'd die. I don't need to shoot up heroine to know that I'd eventually become addicted. You'd be surprised where facts, logic, and common sense will get you.

 

I'm not here to preach either. I just want to help people. I've been that way for a long time. Whenever I've known someone in a bad situation, I've always tried my best to help them sort it out. I've been an unprofessional shrink for quite a few people in my life... :o People accuse me of being cold-hearted and mean, but I'm actually very empathetic, just in my own way. I hate seeing innocent people hurt for no reason, and seeing people hurting themselves for foolish ones. Anyway, the arguement that those who haven't "walked in your shoes" can't give you good advice is a weak one. Chances are, they haven't walked in them for a reason. They look pretty uncomfortable from what I can gather... I've never been one to condemn people who make mistakes, but I don't have much patience for those who choose not to learn from theirs, or anyone else's for that matter.

 

PS: Age doesn't determine wisdom, KMT... Wisdom is determined by the choices you make, and the reasons that you make them.

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Grinning Maniac -

 

I agree that age ALONE doesn't determine wisdom, because you absolutely need experience, knowledge, and an understanding of what the other person is experiencing and feeling in order to truly impart "good" advice. You can't really tell an OW what she's going to experience in the years to come unless you've been the OW, or the MM, or the W.

 

Moreover, you're in OW/OM and Infidelity forums at 19, and you're insinuating that you haven't made any foolish choices like those of us here (either as a BS, WS, or an OW/OW). If that's the case, then what on earth are you doing here?

 

If you're so perfect, how have you learned anything about the dynamics of THESE KINDS relationships?

 

We learn from mistakes, not perfection.

 

You say, "Anyway, the arguement (sic) that those who haven't "walked in your shoes" can't give you good advice is a weak one," and then go on to say that the reason why they haven't walked in my shoes is for a reason...

 

Did I say that? Did I say that only people who are OW's can give me good advice? NO. What I DID say was that it is very difficult to listen to someone under the age of 20, because at such a young age, you haven't really had a he!! of a whole lot of experience in terms of relationships, marriage, infidelity, children, etc. upon which to base such advice.

 

YOU haven't made your OWN mistakes. You can't go through life ONLY learning through other peoples' mistakes. You've got to make some of your own...or, you've at least got to make some of your own mistakes in order to have credibility here in this forum.

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2ndgenrationOW

I WOULD LIKE TO SAY THAT AGE IS NOTHING MORE THEN A NUMBER I AM 20 GOING ON 21 AS ARE BOTH GUYS I AM INVOLVED WITH ONE HAS A CHILD WELL DUH THE MM. i do not pick guys the best i know that all ready but the new guy i am seeing is just like that do to the fact that he was 3 year thing that just ended in august. and we are both students along with working so we don't have to much time. but i just sort of want to know how to tell my MM who i love that i can not have this anymore and stick to it cause i know if i want a future with the guy i can not have my MM also.

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Like I said, it's not the AGE ALONE that is what matters when it comes to giving advice. But when you're that young, age certainly does play a role in indicating your fitness for providing advice because when you're right out of high school, what "experience" in the real world do you have?!

 

George Bush shouldn't speak as to matters he has no understanding just as young pups with no experience with the complex black hole that is the world of the infidelity shouldn't provide an opinion or advice on the same.

 

That's all I am saying.

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Grinning Maniac
Originally posted by KissMyTiara

Did I say that only people who are OW's can give me good advice? NO.

 

You didn't?

 

...you absolutely need experience, knowledge, and an understanding of what the other person is experiencing and feeling in order to truly impart "good" advice. You can't really tell an OW what she's going to experience in the years to come unless you've been the OW, or the MM, or the W.

 

It certainly sounds that way to me, and you wouldn't have been the first person here to have said it to me. But if you say that's not what you were getting at....never mind. :confused:

 

I am curious though...I've been here a while now, and I think I've given decent advice to people. Not cuddly-fluffy advice...but advice nonetheless. What exactly would being 30 instead of 20 and having an ex-wife who cheated on me...change about the general tone of my advice? What differences would make it "good" advice? Also, you can tell someone what they're in for even if you havent done it yourself. If you observe behavior enough and look at these situations, they're generally all the same candy bar with a few little random bits of plot twist nougat. No matter how much anyone wants to believe their particular situation is an special unique little snowflake to which no one can predict the outcome, statistics and facts and record generally don't lie. The problem with the idea of "not knowing until you've been through" it, is that it seems to b.s. everyone into thinking that *they're* the lucky winning Lotto ticket and if they just keep chasing that rainbow, it will allll work out.

 

Exceptions to every rule, of course, but things generally follow a pattern. I don't know how often you skim through forums like LS but these situations almost always have amazing similarities, right down to the dialogue used by the people involved. The term "soulmate" comes to mind. :rolleyes:

 

Originally posted by KissMyTiara

Moreover, you're in OW/OM and Infidelity forums at 19, and you're insinuating that you haven't made any foolish choices like those of us here (either as a BS, WS, or an OW/OW). If that's the case, then what on earth are you doing here?

 

Well, it's not too complicated...I drifted over here looking for dating advice at one point, started posting, and eventually began posting in all of the sub-forums instead of just the one. Problem? :confused:

 

Originally posted by KissMyTiara

If you're so perfect, how have you learned anything about the dynamics of THESE KINDS relationships?

.....

We learn from mistakes, not perfection.

....

YOU haven't made your OWN mistakes. You can't go through life ONLY learning through other peoples' mistakes. You've got to make some of your own...or, you've at least got to make some of your own mistakes in order to have credibility here in this forum.

 

Never said I was perfect, but I learn what I learn by observation. Nothing wrong with that. If you watch enough people for long enough, you learn a quite a bit. Observing other people's behaviors (especially in relationships) has been an interest of mine for a while now. You'd be surprised what useful things you learn by example. Key phrases to look out for, red flag behavior, etc. After a while it all seems to melt together.

 

Experience has it's place in all things, but are you suggesting that I seek out chaotic and unhealthy relationships simply to say "Look someone screwed around on me! I've got my wings! Listen to me now!"

 

KMT, let's be honest with each other for a minute. NONE of you have much credibility. Before you take that the wrong way, let me explain. Some have you have gone though intense situations and can share stories and give advice from first-hand experience...but it doesn't really matter. Why? Because generally, people still don't care. Your "credentials" really mean dick. How many threads have there been on LS where the entire thread is full of people saying "no, don't do that. bad idea", including advice from OM/OM/BS/ and the person who made the topic still doesn't listen? Are people's experiences really worth all that much? Meh, I'll discuss this better later. I'm really sleepy and I have work to do...

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YOU haven't made your OWN mistakes. You can't go through life ONLY learning through other peoples' mistakes. You've got to make some of your own...or, you've at least got to make some of your own mistakes in order to have credibility here in this forum.
We all make mistakes! To say that someone cannot learn from the mistakes of others is naive to say the least. I can hardly believe you haven't learnt anything by observing others!

 

Grinning Maniac? You are Da Bomb !!! :love:

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age isn't everything and yes, experiences count for a lot. but....... speaking as someone who is almost (or in some cases is) twice as old as some of the posters here it does make a difference in the advice that can be taken, easily any way.

 

so, so,frequently many say to just go out and find a single man instead of becoming involved with an MM. when you're in your 40s that becomes so much more difficult. and entering the dating scene again can be a scary thought. when you've been out of that mode for about 20 years it's difficult to figure out how it all works...again. and having just taken that step to try to get back into dating at my age, it's a bit of a nightmare. juggling hectic work schedules and kid's schedules can make it difficult to even find a time to date! and as awful as it may have been at times, my relationship with my exMM was a whole lot easier to navigate and deal with than the potential relationship i have at the momment with a single guy my age! may not make sense but.....

 

and i think we all do need to be aware that sometimes age does have an impact...not maybe so much on someones credibility to give advice but the "ease" at which that advice can be taken. if i was 20 years younger the availability of single men would probably be a whole lot greater and going out and finding someone else would, no doubt, be easier! i've found that a number of men my age, including my exH, when they get divorced are looking to regain part of their youth and are looking for a younger woman. no...i'm not saying that because of that i'll only be involved with MMs but..i'm not the "hanging out in bars" type anymore and because of my kids most of the men i know are married so it's just not as easy as some think to just find a single man! i also have no doubt that it would be easier for me to find a married man to "date" than it would be to find someone single. that's pretty sad. but most of the men my age who show an interest in me, flirt, or make passes at me are still married!!

 

so yes, experience does count but age can make a difference too!

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Originally posted by Grinning Maniac

PS: Age doesn't determine wisdom... Wisdom is determined by the choices you make, and the reasons that you make them.

 

Wow! Grinning Maniac, I didn't realize that you were only 19. It's amazing what the power of "observation" can do for a young person. The 'young and self-absorbed' cannot learn from others. The 'young and observant', however, need not waste time in making mistakes. They can move directly on to greater things.

 

I hope you are considering a career in psychology. You'd be terrific at it. :) You are obviously intelligent, and have the ability to cut through the bullsh*t as well.

 

That was off-topic, so... as far as the original intent of this thread is concerned, I have to agree with Merin and Barby:

 

Originally posted by Merin

Understand first, you don't owe MM anything, zip, zilch, nada.. he's married and it isn't to you.. so yeah..

Secondly.. New Guy.. IF he isn't about being "exclusive" with you, the 2 of you've not agreed to be ONLY with one another, then again.. you don't him anything either..

 

AND just an observation.. seems you have an attraction for guys that aren't really "available" to you emotionally or otherwise.. maybe it isn't so much that the guys you choose aren't the only ones not ready or down for committment..

 

Originally posted by Barby

You could and should be honest with the new guy since he doesn't want a GF right now he shouldn't have a problem with it. And your MM doesn't have/shouldn't have ANYTHING to say about it!

 

 

So IMHO BE HONEST WITH EVERYONE INVOLVED! Honesty is the best policy!

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I'm sorry, but age really does make a difference.

I'm 32 and can say that the journey from 22 to 32 is huge. At my core I am the same person I always have been, but my experiences have shaped how I act and react to people and situations.

Just because one is young does not mean they aren't capable of speaking in the hypothetical, in fact that is the only platform they can speak from when talking to someone whom is much older and dealing with real world problems.

What one must understand is that the person whom is older WILL keep in mind the age of an advice giver, especially if that person is much much younger. Why? Because there is NO WAY you can relate to his or her situation on a real level. That is a plain fact. You have not lived long enough.

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Sometimes it is just nice to get a new and fresh piece of advice, age - sex- experience or not!

 

Who cares??!!!!! If you don't like someone's advice, don't take it!! Simple as that, but attacking someone because they shared their thoughts and replied to a post didn't meet the "AGE standards" or "life experience" expectations to some, is just plain Stupid! Atleast the time is given and a reply was put down!

 

KMT I think you look for stuff to cause arguements.

 

Moreover, you're in OW/OM and Infidelity forums at 19, and you're insinuating that you haven't made any foolish choices like those of us here (either as a BS, WS, or an OW/OW). If that's the case, then what on earth are you doing here?

 

If you're so perfect, how have you learned anything about the dynamics of THESE KINDS relationships?

 

IF YOU'RE SO PERFECT?? Discussions are discussions but it is actually possible to have one without getting nasty and mean? Anyone can come into ANY section on LS and reply to posts. Where does it say in the rules on LS that one can't try and help or offer advice anywhere one might feel like!

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Originally posted by Leaf

Just because one is young does not mean they aren't capable of speaking in the hypothetical, in fact that is the only platform they can speak from when talking to someone whom is much older and dealing with real world problems.

 

I have to disagree. Concepts like honesty are not hypothetical. Heck, most 8 year-olds know that cheating and lying are wrong. :rolleyes: There are some things that don't require alot of "life-experience" to learn.

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Originally posted by Leaf

I'm sorry, but age really does make a difference.

I'm 32 and can say that the journey from 22 to 32 is huge. At my core I am the same person I always have been, but my experiences have shaped how I act and react to people and situations.

Just because one is young does not mean they aren't capable of speaking in the hypothetical, in fact that is the only platform they can speak from when talking to someone whom is much older and dealing with real world problems.

What one must understand is that the person whom is older WILL keep in mind the age of an advice giver, especially if that person is much much younger. Why? Because there is NO WAY you can relate to his or her situation on a real level. That is a plain fact. You have not lived long enough.

 

 

GM - This is why although your "advice" and "comments" might be the same at times as, say, Immoralist, or Owl (gasp!), I am sorry to say this, but I will put more value in their opinion because THEY HAVE lived long enough, and THEY HAVE been through it all. You just haven't.

 

Yes, certainly people can and do learn through observation. But you can't rely SOLELY on observation as your wealth of knowledge. Scientists actually perform experiments to learn, they don't just read books and watch things explode. Baseball players get on the field and get up to bat, they don't just watch ESPN. Lawyers have to get out an argue before the court, not just watch Court TV. We here in this forum throw ourselves out there, we love, we get hurt, and we learn...we don't JUST WATCH Dr. Phil. If you, GM, are not getting hurt, if you're not experiencing the pain and joy that these experiences that we are having generate, then what you say doesn't really matter TO ME, it doesn't have that much weight, even if what you ultimately say is "right."

 

Like Leaf said, there is a HUGE difference between 32 and 22. The journey in "growing up" never ends. I can see how much I have grown just in the past 5 years, not even 10. So, just trust me. So what if you're ever wise and knowledgeable now? When you're 30 you're going to have a completely different view of the world and relationships - trust me on that. Right now you're just WAY too idealistic. THIS HERE is reality, not a psych textbook.

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