midori Posted January 6, 2005 Share Posted January 6, 2005 Hi everyone, I want to comment on a pattern I have noticed in some discussions here on LoveShack.org, especially those pertaining to relationships that involve infidelity. LoveShack.org is an open community dedicated to providing advice and support for people with interpersonal relationship problems. As such, the community welcomes all views that are offered with a sincere wish to help. People have different styles, and different ideas about a given situation. Sarcasm, constructive criticism, and even respectfully voiced disapproval can all be appropriate -- provided they are employed with the intent of being helpful by providing insight or a different perspective that will help the poster with his or her dilemma. However I've noticed that frequently in some discussions members respond to a post in order to voice their own emotions about a similar issue that they are involved in, or to validate their own feelings and choices, or even in some cases to simply berate, mock, or derogate the poster. This particular forum is focused on discussing the problems and experiences of those who are in relationships with people who already have commitments to other partners. It is certainly appropriate for people whose partners have been unfaithful to them to offer their insight to posters here; however, it is only appropriate if it's done in a respectful and helpful manner. "Respectful and helpful" does not mean that you must condone or encourage a poster. It does not mean that you must agree with the poster. We cannot list every conceivable sentence, phrase, or word that a person could post, and declare whether or not it is acceptable. Our rules prohibit personal attacks (see our guidelines for a definition: http://www.loveshack.org/forums/guidelines), but you must also adhere to the larger philosophy of the site, which is to provide support and assistance. If your response is not posted in that spirit, chances are it will be deemed inappropriate. Thanks for your cooperation. For those who want some more clarification about our overall philosophy regarding supportive posts, try this link: http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t45340/?highlight=posting Happy New Year! Best wishes, midori Link to post Share on other sites
immoralist Posted January 7, 2005 Share Posted January 7, 2005 Thanks,Midori. The more things change, the more they remain the same. Your post admonishing the moral zealots to stop bashing the OW/MM is needed. I doubt they'll heed your warnings: their angry posts are knee jerk spasms of righteous rage, not thought-out statements.They do not wish to better; their goal is to batter. That's especially true of their main target: the unapologetic OW. Still, one can always hope. Link to post Share on other sites
Author midori Posted January 7, 2005 Author Share Posted January 7, 2005 Originally posted by immoralist Thanks,Midori. The more things change, the more they remain the same. Your post admonishing the moral zealots to stop bashing the OW/MM is needed. I doubt they'll heed your warnings: their angry posts are knee jerk spasms of righteous rage, not thought-out statements.They do not wish to better; their goal is to batter. That's especially true of their main target: the unapologetic OW. Still, one can always hope. Exactly, immoralist. But while you might be more attuned to spotting the angry posts in the OM/OW forum, it's definitely a two-way exchange of unsympathetic, unhelpful posts. As you point out, many angry betrayed spouses vent their anger at those posting from the perspective of OM/OW -- and that's unacceptable. Likewise, there are OM/OW who seek to bait betrayed spouses, venting their own resentment and making themselves feel better about their position at the expense of the betrayed spouses they're attacking. Both groups are not dealing with the individuals who are posting, nor are they responding to the particular situations under discussion. They are addressing OM/OW or Betrayed Spouses as generalized categories, and according to their own need for vindication and/or validation, rather than responding to the particular OM/OW or Betrayed Spouse in a supportive way. I'm not hoping that my pinned warnings will eliminate the unhelpful, self-focused posts. I'm putting folks on notice that going forward they can expect that posts made in an unhelpful, attacking spirit will be deleted, even if they don't cross the line into personal attacks. Link to post Share on other sites
Owl Posted January 7, 2005 Share Posted January 7, 2005 Glad to hear it Midori. I'm a BS, and I really don't come here with an intent to bash, or to cause trouble. Occasionally, and usually by just a specific handful of individuals, my posts are taken in that spirit. If any of my posts cross that line, I'd be glad to see them deleted, and would have no issues with you pointing out to me my mistake. I honestly just come to this site to help where I can, and sometimes that help doesn't agree with the orginal poster's view. I've been much more cautious of my posts recently since I've seen how some of them have been taken. So it's good to see that this forum will be moderated a little more closely. Link to post Share on other sites
Author midori Posted January 7, 2005 Author Share Posted January 7, 2005 Hi Owl, Originally posted by Owl I honestly just come to this site to help where I can, and sometimes that help doesn't agree with the orginal poster's view. I've been much more cautious of my posts recently since I've seen how some of them have been taken. So it's good to see that this forum will be moderated a little more closely. I hope I made it clear that just because a poster doesn't like the advice/perspective offered, doesn't mean it's disrespectful or unhelpful. Sometimes sincerely offered help isn't appreciated; c'est la vie. The original poster cannot dictate what kind of responses he or she will get. Sometimes the truth hurts, and the community would be ill-served if people only posted encouragement and applause in response to others. But the moderation team is tired of dealing with posts that aren't aligned with the spirit of our community, which is to offer helpful advice and sincere support to people who are struggling with interpersonal problems. It's not a cut-and-dry formula. It's a subjective matter that ultimately comes down to knowing it when we see it. FYI folks, you're welcome to post your questions & comments about this policy in this thread, but questions about particular moderating decisions should, as always, be directed to the moderating team via Contact Us. This thread will also be pared of posts that don't add to the thread's informativeness, just to keep things to a neat minimum that people will actually read. Link to post Share on other sites
whichwayisup Posted January 9, 2005 Share Posted January 9, 2005 I know there is probably a fine line of personal views, good open and honest discussions and thoughts on each thread...Some provoke reaction, harsh and otherwise...Some cross the line and some don't. Most of the time, the bashing that goes on I don't think that many take too personally (JMO) and editing, picking and choosing which fits and which doesn't fit it and if it goes off topic, like a conversation back and forth...is that so wrong? I mean some threads start off with one topic, then lead off into another. I don't think many think of starting a new thread to continue a discussion but just continue on that one thread...I don't know...I can understand removing attacks that are personal but again, we each have thoughts, opinions, some strong ones, but if you read carefully most of the regular poster who banter back and forth still have respect and can agree to disagree or even ADMIT, hey you're right! Wow...No grudges being held either. Ok just my opinion here. Thanks for reading. OH PS, but what LS may find 'unhelpful' or 'strong advice' may actually BE what that person needs to hear, as long as it isn't a personal attack... Link to post Share on other sites
Author midori Posted January 9, 2005 Author Share Posted January 9, 2005 Hi whichwayisup, Originally posted by whichwayisup if it goes off topic, like a conversation back and forth...is that so wrong? I mean some threads start off with one topic, then lead off into another. I don't think many think of starting a new thread to continue a discussion but just continue on that one thread... While tangential comments and digressive exchanges might make perfect sense to those participating at the time, the threads endure after an individual's participation has stopped. Subsequent readers open threads whose topics appear to be relevant to things they're interested in, only to be frustrated when it turns out that after post number 4 (or 40, or whatever) that the discussion has nothing to do with the stated topic. Moreover, while an individual poster might feel that a tangential discussion is broadly related to the original subject, it is quite disrespectful to the original poster to bring up other issues or unrelated things in their discussion thread. LoveShack.org is not a chatroom! We do ask members to be cognizant of that when they're posting, and to take it upon themselves to start a new thread if they're introducing a new topic. Link to post Share on other sites
whichwayisup Posted January 9, 2005 Share Posted January 9, 2005 Moreover, while an individual poster might feel that a tangential discussion is broadly related to the original subject, it is quite disrespectful to the original poster to bring up other issues or unrelated things in their discussion thread. LoveShack.org is not a chatroom! We do ask members to be cognizant of that when they're posting, and to take it upon themselves to start a new thread if they're introducing a new topic. I agree 100%...Even though there is no intent on disrespecting that person's thread...Starting a new one with open discussions back and forth should be done more often!! Guess I shouldn't be so lazy eh! LOL! Link to post Share on other sites
Author midori Posted January 9, 2005 Author Share Posted January 9, 2005 Originally posted by whichwayisup Most of the time, the bashing that goes on I don't think that many take too personally (JMO) Oh, if only that were true! You should see our queues of reported posts, and also the amount of back and forth sniping that only escalates if not nipped in the bud. OH PS, but what LS may find 'unhelpful' or 'strong advice' may actually BE what that person needs to hear, as long as it isn't a personal attack... I agree! But sometimes it does come down to the judgment of the moderation team. One thing I have observed again and again is that posters might start out with helpful intentions, but when their advice is not taken the way they feel it should be, they turn a corner and start to relentlessly badger. Imagine a person who posted a problem like this: "I need to get from New York to London this summer, and I'm terrified of flying, so air travel isn't an option for me. But unless I book passage on a very very slow boat, any shipfare is far beyond my means. Does anyone have any suggestions for me? Please, don't suggest flying, I cannot board an airplane." A person could conceivably respond with info about how to overcome a fear of flying, perhaps relating personal experience, etc. But ask yourself: if the original poster dismisses that suggestion, what good would it do to keep on bringing it up? The original poster isn't going to consider flying, no matter how many times it is raised in responding posts. There is a difference between posting to engage with a person by sharing a different perspective (one they might not have considered, or don't like), and posting to preach. The latter seems to be more about serving the respondent's need to be right or have the last word. Offering hard advice to someone is completely appropriate, provided it is done respectfully. If you're not listening to what they have to say in response to your advice, you're not really respecting their intelligence or experience. And you might not respect their intelligence or experience. Perhaps with good reason. But if that's the case, you shouldn't be posting responses to them. Link to post Share on other sites
stormywind Posted January 13, 2005 Share Posted January 13, 2005 I'm so glad you posted this. I can immediately spot a person who was cheated on when reading a post (even if they never say it). Why? Because about seven years ago, I was cheated on. I totally understand their feelings about this issue. I NEVER thought I'd be in a situation with a MM---NEVER. Most people don't look for this to happen---that's what those posters don't realize. We're not marriage destroyers out on a quest. What bothers me is how a lot of them will attack the OW but not the MM. In most cases that I've seen (including my own), the MM is the one who initiated the entire thing. But I understand how they feel and why. They want to have someone be the "bad guy" and if they make the MM the bad guy then they have to re-examine their relationship with him. It's much easier to blame the OW for it all. Anyway, thanks again for this thread. Seven years ago, I probably would have thought a forum like this was sick, but now I can understand. I've been in both shoes. Link to post Share on other sites
Mr Spock Posted January 13, 2005 Share Posted January 13, 2005 I still think pretty much everything I say is brilliant, and should be left pristine and untouched for all to enjoy. You can tell pretty quick who's posting because they understand the situation a person is in and who's posting to hear the sound of their own voice thundering across the cyber plains in dissaproval of what you're doing. (Hey everybody, look!!! This person is doing something I think is B A D) (YOU BIG SLUT) As for thread hijacking and manipulation, it's probably more of a case the poster not feeling their opinion/queston/idea/brain fart is important or different enough to start a new thread for, which begins the subtle twisting of the posts. After all, if people didn't bring new insight/experience/ideas/thought into threads they'd all be only 2 pages long. Link to post Share on other sites
whichwayisup Posted January 13, 2005 Share Posted January 13, 2005 quote:Originally posted by whichwayisup Most of the time, the bashing that goes on I don't think that many take too personally (JMO) Oh, if only that were true! You should see our queues of reported posts, and also the amount of back and forth sniping that only escalates if not nipped in the bud. OK you're right! I take back what I said...I guess too that old expression, sticks and stones may break my bones but names will never hurt me... Internet logo is words CAN hurt I guess. I think some forget that there really ARE people on the otherside of the computer, not just words on a screen. I know I've been guilty of getting sucked into a few words back and forth not so long ago with somebody who basically irked us all on purpose...But I was trying not to be mean about it, just make afew points. Link to post Share on other sites
CaughtUp Posted February 26, 2005 Share Posted February 26, 2005 I've just dealt with someone who was (for all I could tell) attacking my opinion. They didn't have anything to say about my situation it was a comment about my comment to another poster and me being me gave it back in the same manner it was given. How is it viewed when you respond in kind to these types of post? Link to post Share on other sites
Author midori Posted February 26, 2005 Author Share Posted February 26, 2005 Originally posted by CaughtUp I've just dealt with someone who was (for all I could tell) attacking my opinion. They didn't have anything to say about my situation it was a comment about my comment to another poster and me being me gave it back in the same manner it was given. How is it viewed when you respond in kind to these types of post? Please report posts that you feel are inappropriate to the moderation team, by clicking the "report this post" link. We always prefer that you bring such posts to our attention rather than respond in a manner that might perpetuate or escalate hostility. Link to post Share on other sites
GirlDown Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 i have had it happen where i have answered someone's question in that forum in an honest what i assumed would be a helpful way. but sometimes these particular people decide to attack the person who replied for their advice...and get very nasty and immature about it, when really you were just trying to help--this is advice or encouragement, after all... i had a situation with someone on OW/OM that her answers didn't make any sense to what i was saying, and when i asked about it (just a very simple "what does that have to do with it") it turned into a huge problem with tantrums and crying and made even less sense than when it started. so what happens then? does the original poster get deleted for inappropriate comments to someone who answered? i don't report posts to moderators on a regualr basis (actually, i don't think i ever have) because i would prefer to deal with it myself and just leave the forum--which i think everyone should do. it's anonymous, and i can't imagine some people taking this so freaking personally, after all. it's like some of these people will post something, someone else will answer (say, me), and then before i know it, my post is deleted if i am defending myself or what i said, but the post aimed at me is still there. it's just all so complicated isn't it? Link to post Share on other sites
PattyCakes Posted April 16, 2005 Share Posted April 16, 2005 I have found that most only read what they want to read into a post. I first posted on ow/mm as .....Im new, hi. I came into this forum , referred by another member, to discuss a situation I wasnt sure I wanted to be in but compelled by attraction , rather it be right or wrong. Most that read my posts , I believe, did nothing but skim through them. Only picking out the negative parts and then bashing. Not reading the positive. Only a couple took the time to really read my posts, my questions. For those I appreciate their time. Others I think must not have enough to do or otherwise enjoy picking out negativity. I would think before responding to a post one should really read what the poster is stating. It is easy to confuse online typing and intentions. But I find it hard to believe so many refused to really read my posts. Condemning me for something I had not even done, continuing to condemn me when I stated my thought changes on the subject. Link to post Share on other sites
nightskyreader Posted July 2, 2005 Share Posted July 2, 2005 Well, this is still a problem. I just visited this particular forum for the first time tonight and the the first reply to the first thread I read was an infidelity bash. Is something going to get done about this, like banning accounts, or is it just lip service? Maybe you can block this forum from being viewed by the offenders? Regardless, I would like to see some action out of this: http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t66046/ Link to post Share on other sites
moimeme Posted July 2, 2005 Share Posted July 2, 2005 nightskyreader, you might want to reread this passage: Respectful and helpful" does not mean that you must condone or encourage a poster. It does not mean that you must agree with the poster Link to post Share on other sites
PattyCakes Posted July 29, 2005 Share Posted July 29, 2005 What I have done , although I have not been on much lately, is ignore the self absorbed, know it all, self righteous jerks that feel they have every right to judge another human being, especially when they have never been in your particular shoes. These people have nothing better to do then to blacklist everyone for faults and refuse to look into their own and pay a bit more attention to their own sinfulness, like judging others. Now those that give constructive thoughts without the intent to hurt or insult are the posts worth reading. Skim through the others. Clearly those that feel the need to strongly belittle another human being have issues of their own to deal with. Link to post Share on other sites
PattyCakes Posted July 29, 2005 Share Posted July 29, 2005 Respectful and helpful" does not mean that you must condone or encourage a poster. It does not mean that you must agree with the poster There are intelligent posters that can understand this statement and that have a lot of helpful insight. Link to post Share on other sites
littleflowerpot Posted August 15, 2005 Share Posted August 15, 2005 Originally posted by moimeme nightskyreader, you might want to reread this passage: it's in the way they state their opinions, hon. sometimes they are downright nasty and abusive. Link to post Share on other sites
princessjulieanne Posted October 23, 2005 Share Posted October 23, 2005 I think that the person on this site that just replied to my post by saying "all women who sleep with married men are whores" should read this thread. I did report the reply by the way, I expected some replies that would hurt the truth can sometimes but needs to be told but I did not expect to be called a whore. Link to post Share on other sites
allaboutchoices Posted October 23, 2005 Share Posted October 23, 2005 Sometimes the Ws come here. They are hurt just as anyone else. For some people this could be some kind of satisfaction. They see what they want to see and attack out of pain. All we can do is to feel sorry for that poster Link to post Share on other sites
SHE Posted January 16, 2006 Share Posted January 16, 2006 Please report posts that you feel are inappropriate to the moderation team, by clicking the "report this post" link. We always prefer that you bring such posts to our attention rather than respond in a manner that might perpetuate or escalate hostility. Yes, it certainly is hard when you put your heart and emotions on the line looking for support that you haven't found in the real world and you are attacked in a cold way picking out one thought with in a complete explaination and taking it totally out of context while ignoring the rest; to form an opinion or estimation of with out careful consideration; and for some people in these forums to assume the position as all knowing arbiter with blinders on. Hopefully we can all work together to support each other rather than hide behind a keyboard with spears pointed at anyone who moves. Link to post Share on other sites
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