I just want to scream!

[E-Heart]

Sometimes I feel positive about everything, and then there's times when (this is probably when I think clearly and that I"m being logical) I become extremely negative...

 

The more I think of everything....everything that has happened....the more I think this will never happen! His W has opened the door for him a few times, and all he does is deny it...

 

She's said "that things have been weird for the last year between them", and all he does is deny...why? Why not take the opportunity to open up? (ok...I know why) If he doesn't take the opportunity when she gives it to him, how the hell is he going to do it on his own? How the hell is he going to bring it up?

 

All I can think of is what I'm going to tell him at the end of September when he's still with her! UUUUGGGGGHHHHH!!!! That's my deadline and he knows it!

[lookingforclosure]

Sometimes I feel positive about everything, and then there's times when (this is probably when I think clearly and that I"m being logical) I become extremely negative...

 

The more I think of everything....everything that has happened....the more I think this will never happen! His W has opened the door for him a few times, and all he does is deny it...

 

She's said "that things have been weird for the last year between them", and all he does is deny...why? Why not take the opportunity to open up? (ok...I know why) If he doesn't take the opportunity when she gives it to him, how the hell is he going to do it on his own? How the hell is he going to bring it up?

 

All I can think of is what I'm going to tell him at the end of September when he's still with her! UUUUGGGGGHHHHH!!!! That's my deadline and he knows it![/quote/]

 

My xMM denied things for a year...stalled, put his head in the sand, and all of it. She's moved out and now he's fighting for her...not me

 

So you probably need to brace yourself...because even if they can be with you, more often than not it seems they chose not

[Ifalltopieces]

I've had several dead lines. They have come and gone. Now here I sit. Still waiting. I've come to terms that it's never happening.

 

Stick to your deadline, but be prepared for excuses. And if he's anything at all like my MM, brace yourself for a drastic behavior change right before the deadline.

 

I hope you stick to it.

[E-Heart]

I've had several dead lines. They have come and gone. Now here I sit. Still waiting. I've come to terms that it's never happening.

 

Stick to your deadline, but be prepared for excuses. And if he's anything at all like my MM, brace yourself for a drastic behavior change right before the deadline.

 

I hope you stick to it.

 

Do you have a new deadline now even though you know it's not happening?

 

Oh yeah...I'm ready for a guilt trip and blame game right before! That it's my fault because I can't wait longer....blah blah blah!

[jaskiegs]

OK, I'm going to give you a piece of advice that you won't read here very often. Most will tell you that this type of relationship is a sickness. It is. But I'm here to tell you that it doesn't have to be. I don't know the statistics but something north of 0% of these type of relationships have a chance, albeit small and waning.

 

So, here's the advice. COMMUNICATE. Give him every chance to do what you want him to do and what part of him wants to do. Rather than talking about all the reason for why your relationship can't work, talk about all the reasons about how it CAN work, starting with specific goals. Talk often without desperation or anger (on either part) and you have a chance...just a chance.

 

If he doesn't pursue those goals, then feel free to wait until the end of September but, really, it might as well be August 15.

[TaraMaiden2]

I really can't get my head round the fact that you're 'waiting' when all the current signs tell you he's just not going to change....

What's going to be different between now and then, exactly?

 

reminds me of the guy who every time he hears a knock at the door, opens it, and gets punched in the face...

One day, there's no knock... so he goes looking for the guy who punched him in the face to ask "why haven't you punched me in the face today?"

[anika99]

Sometimes I feel positive about everything, and then there's times when (this is probably when I think clearly and that I"m being logical) I become extremely negative...

 

The more I think of everything....everything that has happened....the more I think this will never happen! His W has opened the door for him a few times, and all he does is deny it...

 

She's said "that things have been weird for the last year between them", and all he does is deny...why? Why not take the opportunity to open up? (ok...I know why) If he doesn't take the opportunity when she gives it to him, how the hell is he going to do it on his own? How the hell is he going to bring it up?

 

All I can think of is what I'm going to tell him at the end of September when he's still with her! UUUUGGGGGHHHHH!!!! That's my deadline and he knows it!

 

 

Tell him goodbye.

 

 

Actually why wait for September. If he can't even bring up the topic of leaving with his wife then you already know it's not going to happen in 2 months

[Popsicle]

All I can think of is what I'm going to tell him at the end of September when he's still with her!

 

This is a good sign that you're going to stick with it.

 

Be prepared.

[E-Heart]

OK, I'm going to give you a piece of advice that you won't read here very often. Most will tell you that this type of relationship is a sickness. It is. But I'm here to tell you that it doesn't have to be. I don't know the statistics but something north of 0% of these type of relationships have a chance, albeit small and waning.

 

So, here's the advice. COMMUNICATE. Give him every chance to do what you want him to do and what part of him wants to do. Rather than talking about all the reason for why your relationship can't work, talk about all the reasons about how it CAN work, starting with specific goals. Talk often without desperation or anger (on either part) and you have a chance...just a chance.

 

If he doesn't pursue those goals, then feel free to wait until the end of September but, really, it might as well be August 15.

 

Thank you! It's funny because his bday is August 15th!

 

Huuummmmmm....are you him?! You've just joined and this is your first post!!! LOL!

 

I'm planning on keeping my negative thoughts to myself and will only let out the positive ones from now on. Thank you for the advice

[E-Heart]

I really can't get my head round the fact that you're 'waiting' when all the current signs tell you he's just not going to change....

What's going to be different between now and then, exactly?

 

reminds me of the guy who every time he hears a knock at the door, opens it, and gets punched in the face...

One day, there's no knock... so he goes looking for the guy who punched him in the face to ask "why haven't you punched me in the face today?"

 

This is actually the first deadline that we've agreed with 100%. Two months is long but not that long after three years of this! I can wait until then!

 

Who knows what's going to happen! There is a chance that it will, even if it's very small!

[jaskiegs]

Thank you! It's funny because his bday is August 15th!

 

Huuummmmmm....are you him?! You've just joined and this is your first post!!! LOL!

 

I'm planning on keeping my negative thoughts to myself and will only let out the positive ones from now on. Thank you for the advice

 

 

LOL, no, sadly I am not him. But I am another MM. I can tell you from my side that not everything is as black and white as people here will say. In your situation, if you are going to hang in there for a bit longer, DO WHAT AN ADULT WOULD DO and communicate. Build expectations, not set deadlines. Deadlines are for you, not him.

 

Here's what I wish my xOW would have done and, yes, I know this is weak on my part...we are all human and predisposed to weakness.

 

I wish she had come to me and said, it hurts, I don't want it to hurt anymore, so this ends one of two ways. You pay a retainer to an attorney, you put a deposit on an apartment, and you do that in the next four weeks or, as much as I love you, we're done.

 

Instead, we went around in this push/pull crap of non-communication and I would wake up some days and rush to an attorney's office and then somedays decide that leaving my family was insane when this person won't even return my calls when I leave the attorney's office.

 

Listen, I am not defending my behavior. I don't know what I was thinking, but I do know this. I loved her...still do...and I hurt her, deeply. The worst part is that all that pain ended up being for naught.

 

I'm not going to lie. Your pain is more likely than not going to end up being in vain as well. But if you want a CHANCE, start communicating today. Otherwise, you might as well kill the relationship immediately. Nothing will happen between now and September without communication.

 

And, as a side note, negative emotions are positive. It's just they don't always feel that way...don't fight them, understand them!

 

Good luck...you're going to need it.

[E-Heart]

LOL, no, sadly I am not him. But I am another MM. I can tell you from my side that not everything is as black and white as people here will say. In your situation, if you are going to hang in there for a bit longer, DO WHAT AN ADULT WOULD DO and communicate. Build expectations, not set deadlines. Deadlines are for you, not him.

 

Here's what I wish my xOW would have done and, yes, I know this is weak on my part...we are all human and predisposed to weakness.

 

I wish she had come to me and said, it hurts, I don't want it to hurt anymore, so this ends one of two ways. You pay a retainer to an attorney, you put a deposit on an apartment, and you do that in the next four weeks or, as much as I love you, we're done.

 

Instead, we went around in this push/pull crap of non-communication and I would wake up some days and rush to an attorney's office and then somedays decide that leaving my family was insane when this person won't even return my calls when I leave the attorney's office.

 

Listen, I am not defending my behavior. I don't know what I was thinking, but I do know this. I loved her...still do...and I hurt her, deeply. The worst part is that all that pain ended up being for naught.

 

I'm not going to lie. Your pain is more likely than not going to end up being in vain as well. But if you want a CHANCE, start communicating today. Otherwise, you might as well kill the relationship immediately. Nothing will happen between now and September without communication.

 

And, as a side note, negative emotions are positive. It's just they don't always feel that way...don't fight them, understand them!

 

Good luck...you're going to need it.

 

Thank you so much! This is exactly what I told him...That it hurts and I just don't want to hurt anymore.

 

It's hard to not let bad emotions show when he's going to Europe with his wife for two weeks in the next little while....

And this is why I can't take this for much longer...these things just hurt too much now!

 

We are still communicating....frequently during the day, mostly texting! His in laws were down this weekend...OUCH again! Then a trip to Europe...OUCH...then a trip back home....OUCH!!! and then he has 2 weeks to figure this out!

 

Thank you! This is the kind of post that I needed! At the end of september, if things haven't changed, i'll need the ladies! lol!

[Ifalltopieces]

Do you have a new deadline now even though you know it's not happening?

 

Oh yeah...I'm ready for a guilt trip and blame game right before! That it's my fault because I can't wait longer....blah blah blah!

 

 

My situation is extremely dysfunctional. I don't have a new deadline. I figure why say I have a deadline when I have shown MM time after time that my "deadline" means nothing. I have learned to not have any expectations. I try to focus on each day and deal with things day to day.

 

Cold hard truth is, my MM is never leaving. I have enabled him to treat me like s*** with no consequences. My behavior has showed him that I lack self respect and therefore he doesn't respect me either. I am nothing more than a side piece. I am a nice little distraction from his pathetic so called life. That's all I am.

 

I know it has to end. I want to end it. But I'm still hanging on. I don't even know why.

 

Right before my past deadlines, my MM would get every cold and evasive. Then he would blame me for "pouring it on". He always blames me for his stress levels. He consistently tells me all of the things I do wrong and the areas I lack. Makes me wonder why he even wants me if I'm so awful.

 

I hope you stick to your guns on this one. Don't let him persuade you or guilt you into changing your mind.

[Ifalltopieces]

I agree with the communicating part but how does an OW communicate with a manipulative, narcissistic sociopath?

 

If you have some enlightenment I would appreciate hearing it. I listen, I try to be understanding and I always walk away feeling like the biggest piece of crap on the planet. I've told him it hurts and he tells me that HE goes through hurt too and I should stop being so negative. He tells me he can't take my negativity anymore. He tells me all i do is "pour it on" whatever that means. He tells me I don't care about his feeling. Tells me I don't want him. Tells me I am selfish. I could go on and on.

 

Communcating is a real nice theory, but it's not always possible

Edited August 4, 2015 by Ifalltopieces

[E-Heart]

I agree with the communicating part but how does an OW communicate with a manipulative, narcissistic sociopath?

 

If you have some enlightenment I would appreciate hearing it. I listen, I try to be understanding and I always walk away feeling like the biggest piece of crap on the planet. I've told him it hurts and he tells me that HE goes through hurt too and I should stop being so negative. He tells me he can't take my negativity anymore. He tells me all i do is "pour it on" whatever that means. He tells me I don't care about his feeling. Tells me I don't want him. Tells me I am selfish. I could go on and on.

 

Communcating is a real nice theory, but it's not always possible

 

I've been told the same things!

The only way his situation is difficult too is if he's actually planning on leaving his W.

 

But yes, I am also oh so very negative...only because for the last three years it's been "by the end of this year, we will be together" and it hasn't happened yet!

 

2 months...I'm going to do the best I can to be positive and give him what he needs to leave his W! 2 months...

[unluckycharms]

I agree with the communicating part but how does an OW communicate with a manipulative, narcissistic sociopath?

 

If you have some enlightenment I would appreciate hearing it. I listen, I try to be understanding and I always walk away feeling like the biggest piece of crap on the planet. I've told him it hurts and he tells me that HE goes through hurt too and I should stop being so negative. He tells me he can't take my negativity anymore. He tells me all i do is "pour it on" whatever that means. He tells me I don't care about his feeling. Tells me I don't want him. Tells me I am selfish. I could go on and on.

 

Communcating is a real nice theory, but it's not always possible

 

I don't know if this will be helpful for you but I try to think of my time and the emotional energy I spent on my ex the same way as I would view a monetary investment. I thought he was a good catch and would be worth a lot in the future, but now, it's clear from how he's treated me that I was wrong and he doesn't add any value to my life. One of the most common pieces of advice I see from financial advisors is to not throw good money after bad money. You still have a lot of worth and you can invest your time and emotional energy elsewhere for a better return. He is no longer worthwhile.

 

Put another way, you never double down on a bad hand. Take the money and run. And also listen to your gut - don't let him convince you of something you know is false. Our intuition is there for a reason. Good luck.. I know it's hard as I'm going through it too but I have hope for all of us.

[jaskiegs]

So, here's the truth. There are three types of MM in affairs. Those that have no intention of leaving their wives, those that leave their wives, and those that vacillate.

 

I can honestly say I was the third kind, which is, frankly, the worst kind to be in a relationship with. Type 1 are just a-holes. Type 2 are future husbands. Type 3 truly care about you but when it comes time to pull the trigger, they back away. I honestly can't even figure out why I did because I love her so effing much that it drives me crazy, but there it is.

 

So, by communication, I don't mean text him and call him and be available. You have to be a combination of push and pull. Push him to commit and pull away at times. If you are going to successfully convert a Type 3 (and the odds are that you won't), there has to be a combination of pain and pleasure. Tell him what you want, let him do it, encourage him to do it, and if he doesn't back away. Don't respond for a couple of days. You want to keep it going into September? Give him two weeks of NC and see how he feels, but TELL him you're not contacting him for two weeks so that he understands that this is not business as usual. By September, you'll know. If he still hasn't hired a lawyer, he's no longer Type 3, he's Type 1...an a-hole.

[E-Heart]

So, here's the truth. There are three types of MM in affairs. Those that have no intention of leaving their wives, those that leave their wives, and those that vacillate.

 

I can honestly say I was the third kind, which is, frankly, the worst kind to be in a relationship with. Type 1 are just a-holes. Type 2 are future husbands. Type 3 truly care about you but when it comes time to pull the trigger, they back away. I honestly can't even figure out why I did because I love her so effing much that it drives me crazy, but there it is.

 

So, by communication, I don't mean text him and call him and be available. You have to be a combination of push and pull. Push him to commit and pull away at times. If you are going to successfully convert a Type 3 (and the odds are that you won't), there has to be a combination of pain and pleasure. Tell him what you want, let him do it, encourage him to do it, and if he doesn't back away. Don't respond for a couple of days. You want to keep it going into September? Give him two weeks of NC and see how he feels, but TELL him you're not contacting him for two weeks so that he understands that this is not business as usual. By September, you'll know. If he still hasn't hired a lawyer, he's no longer Type 3, he's Type 1...an a-hole.

 

Well I don't think he's Type 1. Not sure between 2 and 3!

 

So in two weeks (around August 17-18th), he's leaving for Europe for two weeks with W. He's back during the first week of September, and then leaves again to go celebrate his mom's bday...which brings us to the second week of September! This gives him about 2.5 weeks to get his act together. He also has two weeks before he leaves for Europe to start planning stuff...he should look for place to rent! Not sure if I should mention that or just back off.

 

He knows how NC feels like! That's what pushed him to go to counseling. He;s trying to get another appointment between trips. And also trying to get one right after going to his parent's. He was going to stay at his parent's for a whole week, but it depends on what days he gets appointments.

 

This is so stressful! UGH!

[Ifalltopieces]

So, here's the truth. There are three types of MM in affairs. Those that have no intention of leaving their wives, those that leave their wives, and those that vacillate.

 

I can honestly say I was the third kind, which is, frankly, the worst kind to be in a relationship with. Type 1 are just a-holes. Type 2 are future husbands. Type 3 truly care about you but when it comes time to pull the trigger, they back away. I honestly can't even figure out why I did because I love her so effing much that it drives me crazy, but there it is.

 

So, by communication, I don't mean text him and call him and be available. You have to be a combination of push and pull. Push him to commit and pull away at times. If you are going to successfully convert a Type 3 (and the odds are that you won't), there has to be a combination of pain and pleasure. Tell him what you want, let him do it, encourage him to do it, and if he doesn't back away. Don't respond for a couple of days. You want to keep it going into September? Give him two weeks of NC and see how he feels, but TELL him you're not contacting him for two weeks so that he understands that this is not business as usual. By September, you'll know. If he still hasn't hired a lawyer, he's no longer Type 3, he's Type 1...an a-hole.

 

 

My MM is a combination of 1 and 3. He wants to leave but he doesn't. He tells me he loves me and can't live without me blah blah blah. I know he does love me. I have initiated NC several times and he has come back begging, crying and pleading. I do pull back from him. In fact this whole last week I have pulled way back and it has resulted in some serious fighting. He told me he doesn't feel wanted and without me, ALL of me his life means nothing...again, blah blah blah. I feel like I have been so demanding as an OW that he is reluctant to leave. I think he might think "if she is demanding about this, what else is she demanding about?" I also think he is scared that I will one day walk. He knows I am not a weak person but this relationship has made me weak and vulnerable. He knows I'm out of his league (not trying to brag but it's true) he knows I can find other people if that's what I wanted.

 

He also plays the "well if you can't give me all of you now then how wil it work in the future?" He TWISTS everything and I am left wondering what the heck just happened. I believe that he is unhappy and I believe that having me brings something good to his life. But I'm also a realist. I know that if he was going to leave he would have done it. I also know that even though he can be so cruel and nasty sometimes, he really doesn't like hurting people. He doesn't want to hurt her so he stays. And they have history. At the end of the day, I just can't compete with that. I never could and I never will be able too

[Ifalltopieces]

I don't know if this will be helpful for you but I try to think of my time and the emotional energy I spent on my ex the same way as I would view a monetary investment. I thought he was a good catch and would be worth a lot in the future, but now, it's clear from how he's treated me that I was wrong and he doesn't add any value to my life. One of the most common pieces of advice I see from financial advisors is to not throw good money after bad money. You still have a lot of worth and you can invest your time and emotional energy elsewhere for a better return. He is no longer worthwhile.

 

Put another way, you never double down on a bad hand. Take the money and run. And also listen to your gut - don't let him convince you of something you know is false. Our intuition is there for a reason. Good luck.. I know it's hard as I'm going through it too but I have hope for all of us.

 

You are so right. I've never really thought of it like that but it makes perfect sense. thank you for posting this....

[cocorico]

OK, I'm going to give you a piece of advice that you won't read here very often. Most will tell you that this type of relationship is a sickness. It is. But I'm here to tell you that it doesn't have to be. I don't know the statistics but something north of 0% of these type of relationships have a chance, albeit small and waning.

 

So, here's the advice. COMMUNICATE. Give him every chance to do what you want him to do and what part of him wants to do. Rather than talking about all the reason for why your relationship can't work, talk about all the reasons about how it CAN work, starting with specific goals. Talk often without desperation or anger (on either part) and you have a chance...just a chance.

 

If he doesn't pursue those goals, then feel free to wait until the end of September but, really, it might as well be August 15.

 

I agree with the communicating.

 

I also agree with goals over deadlines. When my fMM (now H) and I decided we wanted to be together, we sat down and discussed what would need to happen to make that possible. We came up with a few scenarios, decided which would work for us, and set goals. Then we each started working on what we needed to do.

 

Neither of us sat around waiting to see if the other was going to meet some deadline. We just both did what we needed. And, as it happened, he was ready before me. He had moved out, set up home, months before I was ready to join him. That turned out not to be a bad thing, but it wasn't deliberately planned that way.

 

If you wait for him to meet your deadline, you're putting your life on hold. That just breeds resentment. Rather, if you're focussed on meeting whatever goals you've agreed for yourself, while he's working in his (or not), you're still making progress to where you want to be. If he meets his goals, great. If he doesn't, you're stil further ahead than you would have been if you'd just waited.

[laurar]

OK, I'm going to give you a piece of advice that you won't read here very often. Most will tell you that this type of relationship is a sickness. It is. But I'm here to tell you that it doesn't have to be. I don't know the statistics but something north of 0% of these type of relationships have a chance, albeit small and waning.

 

So, here's the advice. COMMUNICATE. Give him every chance to do what you want him to do and what part of him wants to do. Rather than talking about all the reason for why your relationship can't work, talk about all the reasons about how it CAN work, starting with specific goals. Talk often without desperation or anger (on either part) and you have a chance...just a chance.

 

If he doesn't pursue those goals, then feel free to wait until the end of September but, really, it might as well be August 15.

 

 

So you suggest she be more communicative with the affair partner? How about you? Are you now communicative with the wife you've chosen over the OW? Did you communicate with her about the affair you had for multiple years? Just curious...you seem well versed in the advice you give.

[Gloria_Smellons]

Respectfully I disagree.

 

E-heart has already communicated with MM, what more is there to say by this point? MM knows what he needs to do, it's not Es job to do it for him.

 

I do agree she should have some goals of her own though, but personal goals quite separate from MM, something to focus on outwith this situation.

 

E, you need to start living your life as if MM is not a part of it. If he leaves, you are no worse off, if he doesn't, you have a head start on recovery.

 

Focus on YOU and what you're going to do with your life, not him.

Edited August 4, 2015 by Gloria_Smellons

[jaskiegs]

So you suggest she be more communicative with the affair partner? How about you? Are you now communicative with the wife you've chosen over the OW? Did you communicate with her about the affair you had for multiple years? Just curious...you seem well versed in the advice you give.

 

Lots of good questions. Yes, I am suggesting that if she wants a CHANCE to make it work, she be more communicative...that doesn't mean talk or text more but set expectations and move toward them. Without movement, it's over.

 

As for me and my wife, I chose not to disclose. I decided that once I determined to stay, disclosing the affair seemed selfish and hurtful. That may be wrong but it seemed a selfish dumping of guilt, so I live with the guilt (and share it with my counselor). However, I have communicated clearly what my expectations are for our relationship and try desperately to meet her needs and expectations so that we have a better chance of making it. I arrived at this affair through my own actions and decisions but that does not mean that there were no reasons for it and that some of those reasons related to my relationship with my wife, so that is where I try to be more communicative.

 

And, it's hard. Emotionally, I am rebuilding things...On top of that, my wife and I were not physical whatsoever the entire time I was in the affair. Now, I am working on that and it is tough. Especially since I cannot shake the feeling that I made a mistake...but I can't go back anyway so I am trying to make the best of it for both of us.

 

But as far as the OP, if she wants a CHANCE, just a chance, expectations and actions have to be clear.

[TaraMaiden2]

Jeesh, it's like the blind leading the blind here....