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How do they just walk away?


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So here is my question. The only thing that truly bothers me is that we never said goodbye. I know that sounds nuts but it really bugs me. Anytime I tried to say goodbye he just would not say it. It was easier for him to just stop texting, answering, avoid me...whatever. I wonder why you would do that instead of just closing that chapter in your life, especially if you know that is what the other person needs.

I was w my xmm for a year and a half and it was very deep so that's why I'm curiou.

Btw I'm fine and I'm still nc, I was just wondering maybe from a mans perspective also why they do this.??

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FusionCutter
Yeah I get that .but I'm curious anyway

 

No one knows the answer except your MM. If you don't feel like asking him why, then what's the point about pondering about it? Nobody knows except him. Even if someone could relate, it may not apply to your MM.

 

And even if for example you said goodbye, then what? You would be wondering perhaps how he could simply return back to life as usual before without breaking a sweat.

 

Don't give it too much thought. There are more important things to be curious about. Take care of yourself.

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But my question is for people to give me their perspectives. I mean I know xmm is a coward and an ******* to boot. I'm just curios why they do this.

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Men in general don't do emotional stuff, talking about feelings and such.

 

Being wired differently, closure isn't as important for males not even in normal relationships.

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I'm no pro, I'm a dude tho. My take is most MM/MW are cowards, and most dudes only do the emotional thing when they are chasing.

 

As for your question, maybe he doesnt do well with ending things for good. Some people can't say "I'm done for good" when they are cheating on someone.

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So here is my question. The only thing that truly bothers me is that we never said goodbye. I know that sounds nuts but it really bugs me. Anytime I tried to say goodbye he just would not say it. It was easier for him to just stop texting, answering, avoid me...whatever. I wonder why you would do that instead of just closing that chapter in your life, especially if you know that is what the other person needs.

 

Well, if WS were good at verbalizing emotional states/needs they wouldn't be WS.

 

He is, to me, falling back on an established behavior when "things get bad for HIM". So he avoids and walks away. Alternatively, he may have said goodbye in "his way" - which was so subtle and oblique you missed it.

10:1 his W gets the same type of treatment.

 

There is no way to really know...we can guess...but we won't know.

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Well, if WS were good at verbalizing emotional states/needs they wouldn't be WS.

 

He is, to me, falling back on an established behavior when "things get bad for HIM". So he avoids and walks away. Alternatively, he may have said goodbye in "his way" - which was so subtle and oblique you missed it.

10:1 his W gets the same type of treatment.

 

There is no way to really know...we can guess...but we won't know.

 

This is what I thought also. It's true about his behavior too. That's the first thing that needs to change if you want your life to get better.

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gettingstronger

Not sure if this is relevant but this is how it happened for us

 

DDay-

 

Me (BS)- you need to call and meet with her to say goodbye- either close that door or walk through it because if you want to be with me I don't want you to have doubts (she lives in a city he frequented for business so it would be him there for 2 nights/3days but I did not care, I never want to be with anyone that does not want to be with me- he could have gone and stayed and I would have picked up the pieces of my life and moved on-there was no fighting for him)

 

Him (WS)- no, I will just send her a text- we both know the deal, neither of us wanted to change our situations- she will be fine

 

Me- no, I don't care what she said- women need closure plus be human and give her a chance to say whatever it is she wants to say to your face-plus, how do you know that when you see her you won't want her-

 

Him- because I never wanted anything more than what I had with her- but if you want me to do it, I will-

 

Her- (AP) - I don't want/like drama-its over is good enough for me- I don't need to see you- good luck

 

Him- OK, well this is a one shot deal- NC means never ever again

 

Her- I know- no problem

 

What happened after that- the next week she called and left a VM, she wanted to see him- he never responded- NC meant NC-no games, no bull-

She has intruded in our lives one way or another for about 2.5 years now- oh how I wish when it was fresh and raw that she took him up on his offer but she did not- its insanity-

 

So yes, as a male- he was just fine with walking away- he took her at her word that is how it would end- she is the one that changed the rules-

I am the one, as a female that said, you need to talk, he never, ever would have thought it/wanted to-

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What_Did_I_Do

Conflict avoidance mainly. Whether it be fear of emotion from you, or worse, fear of his own emotion, they just don't want to deal with the messy stuff.

 

It's easier to file away the "goodbye" rather than face the music. This would also be reason why most men won't file for D no matter how unhappy they claim to be...they let someone else do that dirty work. Except in cases of their W's infidelity. Most can't work through the betrayal - and rightly so.

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My mom and I had many breakups and one thing he said was...I was miserable and felt incomplete the whole time...but...not one word during the nc...he cut me off, dropped me COLD that time then we he came back...he said that.

Maybe they compartmentalize SO much that the ap is a conpletely seperate world..he keeps SO seperate that its almost as if when he cuts it out...his life IS still nornal. He is able to be cold and distance himself and carry on because you haven't infiltrated his world so much that he needs to unweave you...they are super good at keeping emotions seperate...the sweet talk...the ILY...maybe less from the heart than from their di#k! (Sorry)

 

I think for my xeap he thought he meant it...thought it was deep...meant it in the moment but would fall in and out of love with his w so to speak...and would have a "this is wrong, O can lose everything" type of moment and run. Often a fear of getting caught too and the reality overruns the fairytale and its easier to cut off your compartmentalized ego stroke than to cut out your entire life and risk the kids, the house, the comfort...the whole easy life style.

Affair love...IMO...its real only to an extent. Its disposable often.

Different people vary. He may have loved you...but love isnt enough.

Too much at stake and goodbye is hard...it takes facing it...and he spared himself seeing you cry, asking why, its easier to sweep it under the rug like it never happened.

But then...I feel they never forget. How can one move on truly?

He hasn't. But you just dont get to know it.

I guess its maybe better that way but no less hurtful.

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I have an opinion and it is based on being a dog in college, knowing other dogs, and talking to them. Its gonna sound harsh, but it is not meant to judge.

 

Goodbye and closure type stuff happens when you value someone. I remember this one woman I was creeping with in college wanted to hold my hand and intertwine fingers. I just felt weird about that. Another girl I was hooking up with in grad school, and cheating on my LTGF, was having an emotionally difficult time. I could not comfort her and we had been friends, too. I could comfort other women that I had no hope, desire, or expectation of hooking up with and that included platonic female friends. I did some soul searching and I did not like what I found.

 

I did not value those other women. When we were done, we were done. I worked to maintain our "relationships" but only because that was how I was able to hook up with them. I did not say bye when we ended. I did not say bye when school was out or at graduation or anything. It was because they were "less than" in my heart. When it was over, I did not need closure. hell, I once got a "do not contact me again" letter from one girl. Okay. I never did again. Not to ask why, not to say I understood. It was just over. I did not need closure because that only applied to people who "mattered" to me. Interestingly, years later she re-connected with me via FB, with her H's consent and my W's knowledge. Just basic hows life, here are my kids kind of stuff. But that was after 20 years. I never looked her up, asked about her, or anything.

 

My point is that there is no need for closure if the other person was not valuable to you. Its not worth the effort. Will she bring emotion, will she bring drama, whatever. I don't want to deal with her and I don't want to face the fact that I am a jerk for feeling that way. That is how I felt, so no need for closure. Your AP may feel similarly.

 

To a lot of men that were dogs, I can tell you from conversation, that we are the most hypocritical bunch of folks. We don't (didn't) value women who cheated. If you are banging 2 dudes and lying to one, then you become "less than". If you are willing to let us have it without commitment, then you are less than the women who demand commitment. We used to say, X is the kind of girl you marry. X was never the side piece, which is funny because sometimes we were the side piece, but we still thought the woman was "less than". Hypocrisy and misogyny all rolled up in one fabulous douche bag. I guess that's why we didn't value cheating women, because they valued us and "what we had" which was really nothing at all.

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AlwaysGrowing

Generally men learn how to pick up their ball and go home. It isn't anymore complicated than that.

 

Why do women feel that men must play by their rules? Why what they feel is the "proper" way to handle goodbye trumps what a man feels is a "proper" goodbye?

 

I read so often women calling the FMM a coward...in every regard. A coward for not divorcing, a coward for no longer engaging the affair, a coward for this/that. I wonder how often it isn't so much that the MM/FMM is a coward but that he didn't provide the outcome that the woman wanted. That that is the real issue.

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I have an opinion and it is based on being a dog in college, knowing other dogs, and talking to them. Its gonna sound harsh, but it is not meant to judge.

 

Goodbye and closure type stuff happens when you value someone. I remember this one woman I was creeping with in college wanted to hold my hand and intertwine fingers. I just felt weird about that. Another girl I was hooking up with in grad school, and cheating on my LTGF, was having an emotionally difficult time. I could not comfort her and we had been friends, too. I could comfort other women that I had no hope, desire, or expectation of hooking up with and that included platonic female friends. I did some soul searching and I did not like what I found.

 

I did not value those other women. When we were done, we were done. I worked to maintain our "relationships" but only because that was how I was able to hook up with them. I did not say bye when we ended. I did not say bye when school was out or at graduation or anything. It was because they were "less than" in my heart. When it was over, I did not need closure. hell, I once got a "do not contact me again" letter from one girl. Okay. I never did again. Not to ask why, not to say I understood. It was just over. I did not need closure because that only applied to people who "mattered" to me. Interestingly, years later she re-connected with me via FB, with her H's consent and my W's knowledge. Just basic hows life, here are my kids kind of stuff. But that was after 20 years. I never looked her up, asked about her, or anything.

 

My point is that there is no need for closure if the other person was not valuable to you. Its not worth the effort. Will she bring emotion, will she bring drama, whatever. I don't want to deal with her and I don't want to face the fact that I am a jerk for feeling that way. That is how I felt, so no need for closure. Your AP may feel similarly.

 

To a lot of men that were dogs, I can tell you from conversation, that we are the most hypocritical bunch of folks. We don't (didn't) value women who cheated. If you are banging 2 dudes and lying to one, then you become "less than". If you are willing to let us have it without commitment, then you are less than the women who demand commitment. We used to say, X is the kind of girl you marry. X was never the side piece, which is funny because sometimes we were the side piece, but we still thought the woman was "less than". Hypocrisy and misogyny all rolled up in one fabulous douche bag. I guess that's why we didn't value cheating women, because they valued us and "what we had" which was really nothing at all.

 

Well I have to say this is interesting. And not to be rude but you sound like you were a real ******* when you were younger. I hope you value your wife. I don't think all men think like you though. I know many men that arent dogs and weren't when they were younger. I also have a son in college and he is an extremely respectful young man and he knows that if he doesnt want to be with a girl he faces it head on, talking to her and being honest. My other son broke up with a girl a few months ago and he also was very nice to. Her. I raised my sons to treat woman with respect which leads me to believe that maybe a lot of other woman don't raise their boys that way.... Just my opinion...

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And another thing....whether you value that person or not you should respect them...it's totally a selfish move to say...oh yeah I didn't say goodbye cause I didnt value her..... Boy, I hope you have daughters.....

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I don't care if men are emotional Neanderthals. How hard is it really to say "goodbye"?

 

You are correct hopeshimmers, as i recall you're going thru that currently with the gent from your past, so maybe you can be of good advisal how your saying goodbye to your fellow?

 

I personally think when a person is in an extra marital affair and they simply drop off the face of the persons perspective of earth, its a blessing. Actions of leaving say more then words. How one interprets that says more about them.

 

Getting closure is turning the page... one breath at a time some days...

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Bittersweetie

My xOM did this to me too, just stopped talking to me...not once, but twice. It was upsetting not only on its own but because it brought up feelings from many, many years ago. My best friend in college, who I thought of as a sister, did this to me. After graduation she abruptly and painfully ended our friendship by ignoring me. Nothing I did could get a response. I was hurt for years, decades.

 

When the stuff with xOM happened, again I thought, how can someone be like that? And I looked into it. And the thing is...it's an issue with them. Not me. Not you. There is nothing we can do to get an answer, get closure, make sense of it.

 

I discovered that the end with my friend, and xOM, will be a question in my life that will never be answered. Once I realized this, and accepted it, I let go all of all of that bothered me in relation those questions. And felt much much better.

 

So to answer your question...you will never know how they can just walk away. It is a question that will most likely never have an answer.

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No offense taken. I was not a total douche. Actually, I was a well regarded guy, but I did cheat with a woman in college and in grad school. I have to say, I was a complete douche when it came to them.

 

First, we were cheating, so we were all douche bags. Secondly, when it ended, I walked away and that was that. As they say, there is no honor among thieves and I add that there is no honor among cheaters. So no matter how I want to clean up, in the end, I was cheating with a woman on a woman, albeit I was not married. We were both crappy people for that.

 

The rest of my post just points out the hypocrisy. Maybe some women have more emotional involvement, but my general feeling is that if you are in it for the sex, then you have to necessarily devalue the other person, even if it is hypocritical. Not always, but I think for a lot of people that is true. Read the infidelity forum and you will see that over and over again.

 

I actually value women and valued them then; however, if a woman was willing to cheat with me, then she was "less than". Of course, so was I. I just did not want to admit it then. Now, I freely admit it. I was a dick to cheat, I was a dick when it ended, but she was too. Two liars and cheats in a pod.

 

As for not saying good bye...well, let's be honest. I did not consciously think, I don't value you, so no good bye for you. I am saying that after a lot of self reflection, I came to realize that had to be the reason. Put it this way, cheaters don't value their SO's because they are cheating. They did not say, "I don't value you so I am going to cheat", but in the end, if you look at it, when you are cheating, you are not valuing your SO, your relationship, yourself. That is my point. You all were devaluing each other while cheating, so why expect common courtesy? Don't hate the player, hate the game.

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AlwaysGrowing
No offense taken. I was not a total douche. Actually, I was a well regarded guy, but I did cheat with a woman in college and in grad school. I have to say, I was a complete douche when it came to them.

 

First, we were cheating, so we were all douche bags. Secondly, when it ended, I walked away and that was that. As they say, there is no honor among thieves and I add that there is no honor among cheaters. So no matter how I want to clean up, in the end, I was cheating with a woman on a woman, albeit I was not married. We were both crappy people for that.

 

The rest of my post just points out the hypocrisy. Maybe some women have more emotional involvement, but my general feeling is that if you are in it for the sex, then you have to necessarily devalue the other person, even if it is hypocritical. Not always, but I think for a lot of people that is true. Read the infidelity forum and you will see that over and over again.

 

I actually value women and valued them then; however, if a woman was willing to cheat with me, then she was "less than". Of course, so was I. I just did not want to admit it then. Now, I freely admit it. I was a dick to cheat, I was a dick when it ended, but she was too. Two liars and cheats in a pod.

 

As for not saying good bye...well, let's be honest. I did not consciously think, I don't value you, so no good bye for you. I am saying that after a lot of self reflection, I came to realize that had to be the reason. Put it this way, cheaters don't value their SO's because they are cheating. They did not say, "I don't value you so I am going to cheat", but in the end, if you look at it, when you are cheating, you are not valuing your SO, your relationship, yourself. That is my point. You all were devaluing each other while cheating, so why expect common courtesy? Don't hate the player, hate the game.

 

 

I agree with the hypocrisy.

 

If one is willing to turn their back on "proper" behaviour inside a marriage...how indignant can one actually feel about those types of actions/non-actions. Or do they only count if it is being done to oneself...not if we are the ones doing it?

 

Not to mention...does one go to the source of the "douchebaggery" for "closure", moving forward, dissecting? Or would one be better served going to a third party(IC) who has no horse in the race, or "fog goggles" on.

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The reason is very simple, because the MM hardly had anything (i.e. time, or $$) investing on you.

 

 

That is why. I mentioned this before if I recalled correctly, men usually do not walk away from people they've invested significant time or $$ - this applies to regular married couple as well. We often see that abandoned wives said how she/they treated their husbands so well, worked 2 jobs and supported husbands, paid everything, still husbands cheated and left.

 

 

Guys don't usually walk away from the people they have invested a lot.

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No offense taken. I was not a total douche. Actually, I was a well regarded guy, but I did cheat with a woman in college and in grad school. I have to say, I was a complete douche when it came to them.

 

First, we were cheating, so we were all douche bags. Secondly, when it ended, I walked away and that was that. As they say, there is no honor among thieves and I add that there is no honor among cheaters. So no matter how I want to clean up, in the end, I was cheating with a woman on a woman, albeit I was not married. We were both crappy people for that.

 

The rest of my post just points out the hypocrisy. Maybe some women have more emotional involvement, but my general feeling is that if you are in it for the sex, then you have to necessarily devalue the other person, even if it is hypocritical. Not always, but I think for a lot of people that is true. Read the infidelity forum and you will see that over and over again.

 

I actually value women and valued them then; however, if a woman was willing to cheat with me, then she was "less than". Of course, so was I. I just did not want to admit it then. Now, I freely admit it. I was a dick to cheat, I was a dick when it ended, but she was too. Two liars and cheats in a pod.

 

As for not saying good bye...well, let's be honest. I did not consciously think, I don't value you, so no good bye for you. I am saying that after a lot of self reflection, I came to realize that had to be the reason. Put it this way, cheaters don't value their SO's because they are cheating. They did not say, "I don't value you so I am going to cheat", but in the end, if you look at it, when you are cheating, you are not valuing your SO, your relationship, yourself. That is my point. You all were devaluing each other while cheating, so why expect common courtesy? Don't hate the player, hate the game.

 

My head hurts trying to sort that out as here I was...always the good girl..the nice faithful loyal girl my whole life...yet fell into an EA so no physical cheating but still big time cheating...but in my mind because I valued him so much.

I wasnt found out nor was he..no Dday...but I had a loving husband...and I STILL strayed emotionally ONLY in my mind because I felt we BOTH valued eachother and could justify we weren't hurting anyone but the friendship just was deep...powerful...I seemed to not be less than but rather everything that seemed good to add to our lives.

Id never dream this amount of disrespect in his eyes would apply to me. His own happiness from our friendship seemed to totally rock his world. Its so weird. Everything you say is likely true but seems unimaginable. Like it couldnt be true.

I was always always monogamous...until him.

I will never do this again but God...Im not a horrible cheating trollup. Not just a number. Man! Men can be so cruel.

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Southern Sun
To a lot of men that were dogs, I can tell you from conversation, that we are the most hypocritical bunch of folks. We don't (didn't) value women who cheated. If you are banging 2 dudes and lying to one, then you become "less than". If you are willing to let us have it without commitment, then you are less than the women who demand commitment. We used to say, X is the kind of girl you marry. X was never the side piece, which is funny because sometimes we were the side piece, but we still thought the woman was "less than". Hypocrisy and misogyny all rolled up in one fabulous douche bag. I guess that's why we didn't value cheating women, because they valued us and "what we had" which was really nothing at all.

 

You know, I generally agree with this.

 

The irony is, the very man devaluing the woman is demanding the behavior which causes him to devalue her. Or if not "demanding" it, doing everything in his power to get her to do it. Or at the very least, participating.

 

What about in the instance where the man truly does WORK to get the woman in the affair? How is it fair that he can totally devalue and disrespect her when he turned freaking flips to get her to participate? What is THAT phenomenon? Did he just want the sex?

 

Can there EVER be love involved on the part of a man who is involved with a woman, who is sleeping with two men and lying to one of them? Can the man who is a part of this triangle, who is aware, who knows the woman he is supposedly in love with is sleeping with another (her husband)...can he REALLY love her? Is it even possible? And if he does - is he even a worthwhile human being?

 

So at the end of the day, can SHE really even value HIM?

 

Jos, as far as him not even saying goodbye...I'm not a man, so can't speak from that perspective. I said goodbye to my xMM initially, and then when he kept nosing his way in, I just went NC. That's one potential reason. I think conflict avoidance has been mentioned. Lack of care. Sometimes men don't care but want to say goodbye just to not look like the bad guy...at least yours didn't do that.

 

At the end of the day, one thing I've learned is that closure can only be obtained from within. It's acceptance of some sort - he handled it his way and you handled it yours. Understanding the "whys" of everything are a luxury and won't always happen. And it's just over.

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