Decisiontomake Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 So, I'd done four months of NC. Four months! That had been painful, sad, full of missing him BUT had also seen me regain my strength and start to move forward and be OK! We were in a A for 3 years. I left my marriage a year ago, and am now selling my home and moving forward with an amicable divorce. I spent Saturday night with my AP. He has never future faked with me. We have always been honest with each other over that. Same old same old that he wants to leave his wife but not his six year old. He simply can't see past that - not just as in his fear of what that will do to his son, but in the unfettered 24/7 access and life he has with him for himself and his own needs as a dad. He finally admitted to me that he does want us to be in a relationship. He does want a normal life with me BUT he still also says he is close to making the break but can't fathom a way to do it without damaging the dynamic he wants with his son. As I type this I know I'm sounding typical - believing what he says. The reason I do is because we've never - or rather he has never - lied about the likelihood of leaving. So I'm stuck. I can live without him but I don't want to. The thought of telling him to leave me alone until he does make that break is obviously the sensible thing to do but I know him. He will simply switch off and will remain in his marriage if I disappear. He seems to think it's some kind of noble sacrifice. Advice from any OWs that did "wait" would be appreciated or advice from thosw that want to try and get my head on straight would also help. Thank you. Link to post Share on other sites
jwi71 Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 So, I'd done four months of NC. Four months! I spent Saturday night with my AP. I'm confused. How are you in NC if you just spent Saturday with him? 2 Link to post Share on other sites
RoseVille Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 I'm confused. How are you in NC if you just spent Saturday with him? "I'd" is past tense. Link to post Share on other sites
RoseVille Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 OP: I'm where you're at right now. As is he. No future faking ever, making clear he isn't going to leave, and staying (whether to be work me or single) only for the kid(s), and me not wanting to tell him to leave me alone. It's not fun. But I don't think it's going to work for either of us. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
carhill Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 IMO, accept this meeting and its result for what it is, an update, continue NC and conclude your home sale and divorce and then revisit your perspective at the point those events have settled out emotionally. In the meantime, keeping busy with the stuff regarding winding down your divorce, along with spending time with friends, will work to augment NC and provide positive interactions and successes. 5 Link to post Share on other sites
jwi71 Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 "I'd" is past tense. Ah. Got it. OP - you're in a no win situation - which is likely how it ends for you. But maybe I'm wrong. The future is always hard to predict. You cannot pressure him to leave because, like you said, what woman demands a father leave his son? Because of this, you are at the mercy of the MOM. Now maybe he comes around and maybe he does not. And all the while you cannot pressure. It is, as I have seen before, the PERFECT excuse. The best you can do is this: Suggest to your MOM that he seek IC to help him come to terms with not seeing his son 24x7 and that his son will, in fact, be ok w/o dad around. Kids don't NEED married parents - they NEED involved parents. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Decisiontomake Posted May 25, 2015 Author Share Posted May 25, 2015 Ah. Got it. OP - you're in a no win situation - which is likely how it ends for you. But maybe I'm wrong. The future is always hard to predict. You cannot pressure him to leave because, like you said, what woman demands a father leave his son? Because of this, you are at the mercy of the MOM. Now maybe he comes around and maybe he does not. And all the while you cannot pressure. It is, as I have seen before, the PERFECT excuse. The best you can do is this: Suggest to your MOM that he seek IC to help him come to terms with not seeing his son 24x7 and that his son will, in fact, be ok w/o dad around. Kids don't NEED married parents - they NEED involved parents. Thank you. That all makes sense to me. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
RoseVille Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 You can't pressure not only because you don't want to be the reason he leaves, you want to know that he's truly done with his M and would have left anyway. That he knows the M is not what he wants, not going to make him happy. That can only happen if you're not in the picture. Link to post Share on other sites
Ifalltopieces Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 People who stay "together" out of guilt and "for the children" are postponing the inevitable. The children are better off living with divorced parents that can co-parent productively vs staying in an unhappy home with "married" parents who ultimately detest one another. 9 Link to post Share on other sites
RoseVille Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 People who stay "together" out of guilt and "for the children" are postponing the inevitable. The children are better off living with divorced parents that can co-parent productively vs staying in an unhappy home with "married" parents who ultimately detest one another. What if they don't detest each other? They're just blah and meh and living like comfortable roommates? Who still occasionally have sex, even if not exciting? 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Ifalltopieces Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 What if they don't detest each other? They're just blah and meh and living like comfortable roommates? Who still occasionally have sex, even if not exciting? Good question.....I don't really know to be honest. If a married couple is living like roommates, there is an element of dysfunction. I believe children can feel when something isn't quite right. Then again, it's just my opinion. What do I know lol I also think when you have hit the point of living like roommates, and have feelings of "meh" and "blah" its time to move on. Eventually something is going to have to change. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Decisiontomake Posted May 25, 2015 Author Share Posted May 25, 2015 Exactly. If there is blatant hate and disrespect, verbal or physical abuse, then certainly the kids are better off with divorced parents. However if mom and dad are respectful of each other, treat each other with kindness and co-parent well then I don't think the kids really care if they are romantically in love. When I was a kid what I needed was security and stability. I didn't know the details of my parents romantic situation and I didn't care. My H and I were all of the good things you said in your first para. My kids still knew I was unhappy and the dynamic was off tho. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
minimariah Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 (edited) What if they don't detest each other? They're just blah and meh and living like comfortable roommates? Who still occasionally have sex, even if not exciting? it's a double-edged sword - my parents were like this. i mean, kids are not stupid... you know? they SEE and they KNOW much more than parents would like to. comfortable rommates kind of marriage has one good side - it's a fantastic side, the child gets to grow up with BOTH of the parents present in one household and that's a blessing... by far, the best option for the child, no matter what folks like to say to themselves. comfortable rommates kind of marriage, however, has one bad side - you SEE that there is no romantic link between the parents and you get used to BLAH marriage dynamic and grow up thinking that passionless relationship is totally cool and okay and that it's normal after many years together. it can cause problems when the child forms romantic relationship as an adult - it f&cks with your perspective. you know how they say, we either grow up impersonating relationships we witnessed as children OR we grow up avoiding those relationships we witnessed as children like a plague. it's a lottery with that kind of marriage. comfortable rommates kind of relationship can work only if there is complete honesty and good communication between the parents - that way you can dodge the bad side i've stated above. in that situation, the W needs to be aware of the entire arrangement. this kind of meeeeeeh marriage where he keeps cheating and the W knows nothing... it can be damaging, no matter how good the intentions are. OP - may i ask, what is his relationship with the W like? what do you know about their marriage, their dynamic? when he talks about leaving, does he mentions a plan? for example... "i'll leave when he turns X years old!" or something like that? Edited May 25, 2015 by minimariah 2 Link to post Share on other sites
whichwayisup Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 (edited) No kid, of any age wants to know about their parents sex lives! Does your MM still actively go on family outings with his wife? Do they go on vacation together, go on date nights, spend time with other couples, celebrate holidays, and are involved with parents/ in laws etc? You are in a tough place, you love him, he loves you but he loves his child more and doesn't want up root his kids life, change it up and also as you said, he won't see his child every day/night. Take a break, if anything, keep in touch through email but don't see him. Really think it through, what it is you can/can't put up with because if things stay as they are now, you'll still be his OW 10 years from now, or until you two get caught by his wife. Edited May 27, 2015 by a LoveShack.org Moderator 2 Link to post Share on other sites
carhill Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 OP, I do have a success story, actually one of a fMW with whom I was an OM decades ago. She was in similar circumstances, with her MM still married and she and her H divorcing and MM having two children and, at the point I entered (long after OM period), about five years into the process and him just becoming divorced, they had just moved in together. By the time we parted company (actually I was instrumental in her goal to get his commitment, it appeared) some three years later, she had succeeded and shortly thereafter they bought a home together (I verified the deed) and continue to this day, some 15 years after they first met and began their A. She's a grandmother and his kids are now adults. It works for some people. I can't say I know of any others but there's one anecdote where I've known the lady for about 30 years. My takeaway? More work than I could ever imagine and IMO one must be a pro at this kind of stuff and know how to read and manage people to be successful at it. The average guy or gal who simply loves someone and wants to be with them will get chewed up and spit out. Hence, I leave it to the pros. Pulled back a bloody stump one too many times. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
KissofGrace Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 Seriously??? I'm sorry but I don't buy into that. The family is broken. Two adults are living a non existent life. Having just gone through a separation myself, I've listened to my teenage children tell me memories of their own young years when they knew things were not right. And my marriage was not all bad. Our family have some wonderful memories. We are not protecting our children when we stay in unhappy or unfulfilled marriages. We are teaching them. I am saying that I love my AP and know he wants to have a relationship with me - an open one. I would put the needs of his child first throughout that. I don't believe people should stay together for the children. I'm sorry if that makes you angry with me. It has always been my perspective even prior to my A. YES!!!!! Agree! 4 Link to post Share on other sites
OWAmy Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 OP I would say that now is a very good time to exit your affair once and for all. In my affair there WAS no future faking or talk of the future and that made me feel that 'ours' was somehow different (better, I guess) as it avoided the stereotypical affair cliches. Only it didn't. After 4 months he broke NC and I responded. Even though the affair has not resumed and nor will it - all those things we so 'cleverly' avoided have now entered the equation. A month ago I said we need to go NC for a month - concentrate on whatever it is you feel is upsetting you then email me back. Well, he came back today said that he has decided to leave the family home, separate ... only he can't quite do it yet. So happy with his response - why? Because this is the perfect exit for me. No chance I am waiting around. Perhaps if this had come up say 3/4 years ago and we had talked about it then, then I might have stuck around and seen what the outcome was, but not any more. I would be too much at his mercy and I cannot and I will not allow myself to be involved in this any more. ...................... Another sort of relevant story. One of my friends in an extended social circle has been asked for a divorce by his wife and he is devastated. And I mean heartbroken. This is a man who has never had a kind word to say about his wife in the whole time I have known him - 7 years. They have two young children and he is the epitome of a really good dad. But his marriage is toxic (according to him). He would rather stay and be with his kids than be with them only part time. And also he is scared of being alone to the extent that he chats to other women online. Now he is fighting for his marriage! As his friends we are all at a loss as to why he fights for something which you would think - judging by what he has been spouting all these years - would be a blessing. Don't ever underestimate how much people will sacrifice for their kids or how much people might lie about the state of their marriages. 5 Link to post Share on other sites
minimariah Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 She was in similar circumstances, with her MM still married and she and her H divorcing and MM having two children and, at the point I entered (long after OM period), about five years into the process and him just becoming divorced, they had just moved in together. i'm sorry, i didn't understand this part - this fMW & her MM moved in together and she had you as a OM in that affair relationship...? i'm sorry, i struggle with my english sometimes. Link to post Share on other sites
Lois_Griffin Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 What if they don't detest each other? They're just blah and meh and living like comfortable roommates? Who still occasionally have sex, even if not exciting? What if they're comfortably happy and the wife is completely unaware of any supposed 'unhappiness?' What if they do have sex and it's not boring but very satisfying? Not EVERY marriage where someone is having an affair is an unhappy, sexless, passionless liaison. Sometimes, people have affairs because they're just plain selfish and want MORE. I've known quite a few people JUST like that. 11 Link to post Share on other sites
carhill Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 i'm sorry, i didn't understand this part - this fMW & her MM moved in together and she had you as a OM in that affair relationship...? i'm sorry, i struggle with my english sometimes. More like tool but that's a pretty accurate description. Males compete very aggressively in my demographic and this guy was from a wealthy family and she had a lot riding on it and he apparently knew our history from decades past. We weren't strangers since I had gone to school with his family members and we had business dealings. Masterful, probably more creative than any of the other MW's I've met over the years. Would I advise a lady to work this kind of deal and spend years on it? Nope! However, the OP asked about holding on and getting a relationship and, yep, it worked out that way, not to mention a brilliant business move. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
minimariah Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 More like tool but that's a pretty accurate description. Males compete very aggressively in my demographic and this guy was from a wealthy family and she had a lot riding on it and he apparently knew our history from decades past. ahhhhhhh, i understand! so she and her MM divorced and continued the relationship but she used you as a way to "seal the deal" and make him completely commit, no? i'm asking because that's actually the way my colleague (a single OW) made her MM to commit. to moment he saw he's going to lose her and that he has competition -- that was the moment he finally decided to commit ONLY to her. you gotta know how to play the game, i guess. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
goodyblue Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 (edited) I am saddened at reading how many people think it is noble to stay with the wife for the kids. What does this leave for the wife? A husband who doesn't love her. Yippie!! Yay for her!! She sure lucked out!! Sorry, she deserves to find love, not someone to be her friend. I have enough friends. If you do not love your spouse romantically, let them go. My guy stayed for the kids. They didn't hate one another but she is dysfunctional and he put up with it. He wasted SO much of his life being lonely, it is pathetic. He is SO glad he left, but really, I don't know if he would have left without my support. OP, you can support him in his leaving if he is serious, but it is not for the faint of heart and in truth, he may never actually follow through, which means a lot of wasted time on your part. Take care of YOU first. Like an oxygen mask on an airplane, all that... Edited May 26, 2015 by goodyblue 7 Link to post Share on other sites
heartinlove Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 Yes I held on and we are now together and very happy. It was five long years though and a lot of pain. I also tried to keep my distance the last two years although we spoke frequently. I would encourage you to really go NC and if its meant to be its meant to be, otherwise it really is too painful living this half life. In my situation, in my gut, I knew we would be together and we were right for each other, but I knew I had to give him space to come to terms with separating and the how it would affect his relationship with his children. The reality is it is painful for him to not have the same access to his children as before but in my case my former mms children are in their teens so they are starting to be more independent anyway. It really took him a while to come to terms with the break up of his family and I really had to let him go through that process without any pressure from me. I have a friend who also was in a similar situation and they too are now together and very happy. These are not easy situations though and in hindsight I would have gone totally NC if I was able and if I was not so connected to my now boyfriend. Hope that helps. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Flawlless Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 I gave my MM an ultimatum . Having to listen to how much he loved me and that he made a mistake marrying his W , my feelings were either sh** or get off the pot. I had never been the OW and to be honest , though I loved him , I did not feel good having put myself in that situation of being the other woman . So I told him...." I love you , and I want to be with you , but not like this . I can't continue on this way , it does not make me feel good about myself and I know I deserve to be with someone completely". And I stuck with it . Soo , though my situation is probably very rare , the outcome was he left her , got divorced , and we have been married for 17 years with 3 beautiful children 9 Link to post Share on other sites
loveboid Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 There's a thread in the Infidelity section of a man who dumped his cheating fiance before the wedding without even talking to her and giving her the opportunity to cry in front of him. Very strong. I marveled at that considering there are many stories of men who hang on to relationships past their due date. He has five sisters and then I realized they may be emotionally there for him. Are you sure it isn't about emotional support? I really think men have fewer people to rely on emotionally and that they get stressed out and cannot leave the one person who is giving them life support. His wife may be his support and/or he may want to be that support for his son. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
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