RoseVille Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 Free flow of thoughts here. I'm starting to think getting over an A with a MM requires you to go through some version of the stages of grief. I've been heartbroken. I've been angry. I'm now in this "negotiating" phase, but with myself... nothing of his doing. Well, except we've had some brief contact via text (I cannot block his number for work reasons, we have to be able to reach each other). In some of these texts, he's asked me how I'm doing, and volunteers that he wishes he was with me, that he misses how natural and mutual in affection we were together. (I respond in kind, damnit. ... but his texts alone, just seeing them pop up, were enough to make my heart flutter.) Based on our text conversations, and the sort of stuff he continues to share, I guess you could say that the emotional aspect is still there. Actually, it feels like the emotional aspect is greater than it was when the physical aspect started; so now it's reverse, in that the physical is over, but the emotional is strong. Despite this, he's still trying to work on his M, I assume. I just heard him telling a guy on our team that he wants to plan a family vacation soon, and he said it when I was just feet away, so he had to have known I'd hear it. He's been doing all this family stuff with his kids; they just went to Disneyland too. It all just turned my stomach. The very life he bemoans, is the one I want. Isn't that funny? I'm not jealous of his W, I'm jealous of the life he has. I guess the grass is always greener, no matter whose shoes you're in. I guess this is just me owning up to the fact that I really miss him. And I want to be with him. And I think I'm negotiating with myself, thinking maybe, just maybe, he'll "work through" his M and realize A or not, it's still not working, never will work, and he'll end it of his own accord, and come back to me. I know the chances of that are like .00002%, but for some reason, I'm willing to keep an open heart to him just because of that slim chance. It's keeping me... stalled. And until I'm angry again, I don't think it's gonna change. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
jen1447 Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 ^No surprises here. Are you sure you're not negotiating on sexual desire too? Link to post Share on other sites
Author RoseVille Posted May 25, 2015 Author Share Posted May 25, 2015 ^No surprises here. Are you sure you're not negotiating on sexual desire too? What do you mean? There's definitely an element of "the best I've ever had" there. For sure. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Southern Sun Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 I'll add more later when I can, but I think a lot of this is coming from the new feeling of "the forbidden." It was forbidden before, but even you said it was more physical than emotional. However now that you've decided you "can't" have each other, it enhances the longing effect and generates emotions that weren't there to begin with, or certainly makes them stronger. We want what we can't have for some reason. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Popsicle Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 (edited) Oh Roseville. I really feel for you. My xMM is in the same exact place as yours is, as is our "relationship", and he behaves the same way towards me as your does, and I to him, except, I don't hold out hope anymore. He doesn't know this, but I don't (well, maybe he does a little but doesn't want to acknowledge it). The reason I don't hold out hope anymore is because, despite what he says, I know he will never leave. He is just more comfortable with his life than he even realizes. He doesn't want to accept the fact that this is his life and will be forever. I understand what is lifelong reality is more than he does. Knowing this makes me know that we will never be together ever. I only allow his messages to continue so he can hold onto whatever hope he has for his life/psyche, and so I don't feel totally rejected too. It's a little more gentle on me too. I actually have more hope and am looking forward to a relationship with new (single) man. I feel more excitement about being with someone new than with him. The prospect of that is so much better. It took a while for me to get there though. I wish you luck. Edited May 25, 2015 by Popsicle 2 Link to post Share on other sites
nikki76 Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 (edited) Ending a relationship or affair is exactly like grieving a death. You have realize though, holding on to that small glimpse of hope is so damaging. my favorite quote "you need to push through the pain because giving up hurts so much more. " I learned this the hard way. I thought, if I just keep with the emotional affair and be okay that he doesn't want the physical part, I still have a part of him and won't have to deal with the pain of ending it.(twisted I know) I couldn't have been more wrong. Because the longer I held on the more emotionally attached I became. I was too scared to deal with the pain. I dealt with this back and forth for 11 months. Don't be me 11 months from now. End it now. Deal with the pain. Work through all the emotions. He will not changE. How maNY stories have you read on here where the mm has left his wife? Probably 3. You are strong. You can do it. Trust me, if I could, anyone could. Edited May 25, 2015 by nikki76 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Grapesofwrath Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 I'll add more later when I can, but I think a lot of this is coming from the new feeling of "the forbidden." It was forbidden before, but even you said it was more physical than emotional. However now that you've decided you "can't" have each other, it enhances the longing effect and generates emotions that weren't there to begin with, or certainly makes them stronger. We want what we can't have for some reason. "Satisfaction is the death of desire." Don't know who said it originally, but it's a quote that often resonates for me when the topic of As comes up. If you need some help getting angry again, consider that he is offering you absolutely nothing right now, yet he continues to take from you. It gives him a charge to know you are still out there, still waiting, still wanting him. And he is giving you what in return? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
jen1447 Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 What do you mean? There's definitely an element of "the best I've ever had" there. For sure. Sorry, I took this "Actually, it feels like the emotional aspect is greater than it was when the physical aspect started; so now it's reverse, in that the physical is over, but the emotional is strong." to mean you no longer had the desire, but I gotcha now. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
jen1447 Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 double post 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author RoseVille Posted May 25, 2015 Author Share Posted May 25, 2015 I know he will never leave. He is just more comfortable with his life than he even realizes. He doesn't want to accept the fact that this is his life and will be forever. I understand what is lifelong reality is more than he does. Yeah, I think I know better than he does about this, too. There have been a few times where he was sure his marriage was over, and he left, only to return again. That's evidence to me that he'll never really leave. He might mentally check out of aspects of his home life, but he'll never actually leave. Knowing this makes me know that we will never be together ever. I only allow his messages to continue so he can hold onto whatever hope he has for his life/psyche, and so I don't feel totally rejected too. It's a little more gentle on me too. I actually have more hope and am looking forward to a relationship with new (single) man. I feel more excitement about being with someone new than with him. The prospect of that is so much better. It took a while for me to get there though. I wish you luck. I'm going to try and follow your approach/attitude. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author RoseVille Posted May 25, 2015 Author Share Posted May 25, 2015 "Satisfaction is the death of desire." Don't know who said it originally, but it's a quote that often resonates for me when the topic of As comes up. Funny you say this. When the PA was ongoing, after a good chunk of intimacy, he'd say that he liked spending time apart on the in between, to "recharge," that he thought it helped us rebuild our desire and longing. And then while he'd be in daily contact and very flirtatious, he wouldn't want to get together for a few days to a week. If you need some help getting angry again, consider that he is offering you absolutely nothing right now, yet he continues to take from you. It gives him a charge to know you are still out there, still waiting, still wanting him. And he is giving you what in return? I guess that's what's hard. He's not giving me absolutely nothing. (Double negative.) We're true friends, and colleagues. He gets a part of me that no one else in my life does, and vice versa. Link to post Share on other sites
Grapesofwrath Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 Speaking as someone who has gone through divorce...I read the following quote recently and it made a lot of sense: "To go through with divorce, your desire not to see your spouse every day has to be greater than your desire to see your children every day." Not to mention all the other attendant aspects of that $hitstorm: Extended family, social pariah, financial loss, etc. Divorce is an option, but it's a terrifically difficult and painful one. In order to do it one must be absolutely 100% sure that it's the right course of action. I believe that if there is a way to maintain the marriage and also get the good stuff from the A, most people will choose that route. And in the interest of full disclosure, it was my ex-H who initiated divorce by serving me with papers. As miserable as I was, I still couldn't pull the trigger on that. He was able to and I'm glad he did. One of us had to have the courage. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author RoseVille Posted May 25, 2015 Author Share Posted May 25, 2015 See, Grapes, if he only saw her at random family functions, he'd be okay with that, so long as he still got to see his kids everyday. It's not that he has a desire to get away from her, so much as he just can't muster the desire to care. He doesn't want to hurt her, but is ambivalent and indifferent towards her. He stays because in his mind, the kids come with his wife. To see his kids, he must stay with his wife. So to leave his wife would mean leaving his kids. Link to post Share on other sites
Grapesofwrath Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 The kids are the thing that keep a lot of people from divorcing, especially if the kids are young. And I can understand it. Not seeing my kids every day was/is excruciating. You get used to it eventually, but not for a long time. I cried myself to sleep every night they weren't here...for about a year. Worrying about them. Wondering if they had eaten a good dinner. If they'd been tucked in, kissed goodnight, told they were loved before drifting off to sleep. Then there are the holidays spent without them, and a whole host of other things that you miss. I worried that divorce would ruin them (it didn't). there is no shortage of propaganda out there to tell you that your divorce will destroy your children and they will fail in life because of it. You have to get to a point where you think that staying married is worse than missing half your kids' lives and more damaging than a divorce would be. In my case, there was a D-day (I was having an EA) and that changed everything and quickly. Without a D-day, I might still be married. I can't honestly say that I wouldn't. And I don't think my situation was uncommon. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
jwi71 Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 Based on our text conversations, and the sort of stuff he continues to share, I guess you could say that the emotional aspect is still there. Actually, it feels like the emotional aspect is greater than it was when the physical aspect started; so now it's reverse, in that the physical is over, but the emotional is strong. So the A continues then...oh, I know you will claim otherwise, but the above resolutely refutes it. The very life he bemoans, is the one I want. Isn't that funny? I'm not jealous of his W, I'm jealous of the life he has. I guess the grass is always greener, no matter whose shoes you're in. What are you doing to get the life you want? What actions can you take, right now, to move you one step towards your goal? I guess this is just me owning up to the fact that I really miss him. And I want to be with him. And I think I'm negotiating with myself, thinking maybe, just maybe, he'll "work through" his M and realize A or not, it's still not working, never will work, and he'll end it of his own accord, and come back to me. I know the chances of that are like .00002%, but for some reason, I'm willing to keep an open heart to him just because of that slim chance. It's keeping me... stalled. And until I'm angry again, I don't think it's gonna change. Bargaining. The slow slide back into being an OW and one step further from the life you crave. Or, if not back into OW, simply stalled as you say. I would, again, counsel finding another job - or transfer to another location. I get the thought process of not wanting to - but sometimes we take a tactical "loss" to win the war. Trying to navigate LC, especially at work, is a minefield of the nth degree. All it does is prolong the hurt - which is another way of saying its the long way to the life you want. Link to post Share on other sites
Author RoseVille Posted May 25, 2015 Author Share Posted May 25, 2015 Changing careers or locations is not an option for me. Period. Link to post Share on other sites
Author RoseVille Posted May 25, 2015 Author Share Posted May 25, 2015 Grapes, I fear that he may be on the verge of resenting his children, in addition to the resentment he already feels towards his wife. He's repeatedly said that if not for the children, they would have split years and years ago. On top of that, they're lives now, outside of work, revolve around their kids and their activities/sports. They both live for the children. The only thing he gets for himself (other than the A, which I acknowledge is a big one) is his occasional workouts (2-3x week) in his chosen sport, many of which he still has to forego because of his kids' own activities/commitments. Link to post Share on other sites
jwi71 Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 Grapes, I fear that he may be on the verge of resenting his children, in addition to the resentment he already feels towards his wife. He's repeatedly said that if not for the children, they would have split years and years ago. On top of that, they're lives now, outside of work, revolve around their kids and their activities/sports. They both live for the children. The only thing he gets for himself (other than the A, which I acknowledge is a big one) is his occasional workouts (2-3x week) in his chosen sport, many of which he still has to forego because of his kids' own activities/commitments. I already know you don't care for my message but: The above should be all the red flag you need to turn and run like h_ll. Run - for a variety of reasons at a variety of "levels". You didn't miss out on a life of roses and happiness - you dodged a bullet. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author RoseVille Posted May 25, 2015 Author Share Posted May 25, 2015 I already know you don't care for my message but: The above should be all the red flag you need to turn and run like h_ll. Run - for a variety of reasons at a variety of "levels". You didn't miss out on a life of roses and happiness - you dodged a bullet. Why? My fear isn't something he's actually articulated. They both live for the children, he stays because of them. Link to post Share on other sites
jen1447 Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 I've never been precisely in Rose's (and many others') situation, but I'm genuinely curious (and I hope this tangent is ok) - is just being the OW ever enough? I mean, can you be content with that? Link to post Share on other sites
Popsicle Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 When I divorced, I didn't like not seeing my kids everyday, but I never worried about them when they were with their dad. He is extremely responsible and if anything, it gave me an end of the week breather/alone time from them that I would have never had had I stayed married. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
Author RoseVille Posted May 25, 2015 Author Share Posted May 25, 2015 When I divorced, I didn't like not seeing my kids everyday, but I never worried about them when they were with their dad. He is extremely responsible and if anything, it gave me an end of the week breather/alone time from them that I would have never had had I stayed married. MM has acknowledged this, after watching his family members experience the same thing, that he'd have some time to himself when not with the kids were they to every split. And he's not worried about his kids not having the best care/treatment when they're apart. He just doesn't want to be away from them, and believes they need to see their dad every day. (They would anyway, just because of their activities; he just wouldn't be the one to put them to bed, which is what he does now.) Link to post Share on other sites
Author RoseVille Posted May 25, 2015 Author Share Posted May 25, 2015 I've never been precisely in Rose's (and many others') situation, but I'm genuinely curious (and I hope this tangent is ok) - is just being the OW ever enough? I mean, can you be content with that? If it means forever, no, it's not enough. If it means right now, with the alternative of being alone without passion and that intimate friendship, yes. That's the rub. Link to post Share on other sites
Popsicle Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 I've never been precisely in Rose's (and many others') situation, but I'm genuinely curious (and I hope this tangent is ok) - is just being the OW ever enough? I mean, can you be content with that? Not for me, no, but I'm single. I think it is enough for some MOW. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
whichwayisup Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 A big loss involves all the stages of grief. Whether it be losing a loved one to death, loss of a marriage/divorce, an affair ending, losing a job you've invested in for many years, a loss is a loss and there's a process one just has to go through to get to the other side. Embrace your good days and just know that when you're feeling down and out you will get through it and survive. You'll be stronger and wiser. Spend time with people who make you laugh and make you feel good about yourself. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
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