Are we horrible people?

[Blu72]

Are we (MOW,MOM,OW,OM) just horrible people for letting ourselves get involved in these affairs? Are we completely devoid of feelings? I really struggle, for obvious reasons, to understand how I came to this place in my life when I was one of those people who always felt affairs were such a disgrace. I had no tolerance for anyone who engaged in such destructive behavior. To me there was no excuse that someone could give for being in an affair. Yet here I sit, ticking of excuse after excuse for why I find myself in this predicament and trying to convince myself that I really am not a bad person, just someone who lost her way. I want to blame him because that makes it easier to face myself in the mirror everyday. It's not his fault, at least not for my role in this mess. He has tried to take the blame for this at times, but really it's my fault. I should have been the one to say no. I lost my voice somewhere and I don't know how or even when that happened it's been so long.

 

I think I am a horrible person who is having a hard time admitting to myself what a cluster my life has become because of this.

[Arieswoman]

As a BS I wouldn't say that all AP's are "horrible people".

 

IMO they are people who have poor boundaries and poor coping skills. In addition they have the ability to "compartmentalize" their lives so that one part doesn't impinge on another.

And most have a sense of entitlement.

 

From what you say you are beginning to learn something from the mess you got yourself in and will hopefully make better choices next time.

[Hope Shimmers]

Are we (MOW,MOM,OW,OM) just horrible people for letting ourselves get involved in these affairs? Are we completely devoid of feelings? I really struggle, for obvious reasons, to understand how I came to this place in my life when I was one of those people who always felt affairs were such a disgrace. I had no tolerance for anyone who engaged in such destructive behavior. To me there was no excuse that someone could give for being in an affair. Yet here I sit, ticking of excuse after excuse for why I find myself in this predicament and trying to convince myself that I really am not a bad person, just someone who lost her way. I want to blame him because that makes it easier to face myself in the mirror everyday. It's not his fault, at least not for my role in this mess. He has tried to take the blame for this at times, but really it's my fault. I should have been the one to say no. I lost my voice somewhere and I don't know how or even when that happened it's been so long.

 

I think I am a horrible person who is having a hard time admitting to myself what a cluster my life has become because of this.

 

Blu, if you were a horrible person, you would not be here, posting and wondering if you were a horrible person.

 

Some think that people who engage in affairs are evil. Ignore that. Those accusations come from deep hurt and betrayal that others have endured, and not to minimize that, but it doesn't make you a bad person. Evil people are sociopaths who have no conscience. You are not even close to that.

 

You need to re-evaluate yourself and your boundaries. We are all human, and wanting love and sex and validity from other humans is totally natural. In our society, we have made rules that do not necessarily coexist well with all of that. When we lose ourselves, we may violate those rules, and you have, but you are here struggling with it and wanting to fix this. That is all that matters. You are a good person who needs to re-align your behaviors to your own beliefs.

 

Please don't second-guess your self-worth, blu.

[Gloria_Smellons]

People aren't essentially good or bad, we're all just people.

 

We're all capable of great things, we're all capable of terrible things.

 

Have I made horrible choices? Absolutely.

 

Do I believe that makes me a horrible person? No.

 

The two things aren't mutually exclusive.

[Friskyone4u]

Blu

You are NOt horrible even if what you are doing may be horrible. You are stuck because you are beating yourself up internally so badly that you need to stay in this mess because you think you are so flawed and screwed up.

You at least recognize you are not on a good path and you can't fix something until you know it is broken so that is good.

At some point if you keep realizing you need to stop this behavior you will find the strength to do it .

[msblissful]

I am exactly the same lately wondering am I horrid. Evil, awful, heartless ect. I used to despise cheaters. Growing up in a house with a mother who was a cheater several times over. But here I am. MW in love with a MM.

I can't even begin to explain how much I hate this fact. Questioning the resentment I had towards my mother for years and years......

[Lion Heart]

Hi blu, I'm also a BW almost 14w since my D Day.

 

I think it's a loaded question but very worthwhile asking yourself. My WH put it this way in a text to me recently:

"I always thought I was sort of a good bloke". I couldn't respond. I am certain he wanted validation from me that he was. He's not gonna get it. As a liar and a cheat, betraying his W and children is certainly not what "a good bloke" would do. Not for one split second. Yet it went on for months. Us putting up with his mood swings because he was in fear of us finding out. It was horrible. It's been more horrific since D Day. Sure he didn't want us to find out but that just begs the question "If we didn't find out about the "sleazy" side of you, you could pretend it wasn't there? ". Post A, a cheater who wants to change HAS to ask the hard questions but has to be ready for the hard truth too.

 

I know for sure, because I spoke with the OW first before WH, that he pursued her relentlessly (psych said groomed her erk!). I know all the lies about our M he told her and the almost future faking he did. I had empathy for her .....to a point. This perspective altered when I found out she forced the exposure to me (I'm grateful she did!) But her motivations WERE to break up this family and take my place and live in MY house (I'd paid for) and her relatives told me this was not the 1st time she'd attempted this. She was a serial OW.

Not a nice person. Keenly manipulative. Never "winning", never learning either. Very poor, very desperate. Hiding under the guise of a religious educator no less! While WH was hiding under his guise as a faithful H and "dedicated father". Silly WH didn't know how clever she was before he started his A. OW didn't know how poor he was!

 

From your thread I gather it's your "first time"? For your sake alone I hope you can learn from it. As are seldom worth the time and emotion invested.

 

The facts in WH A was that HE was married. OW was single. I certainly blame WH for the betrayal aspect. I know it could've been ANY OW, not specifically this OW. The fact he was cake-eating with both of us & NEVER intended to leave me or for us to ever find out purely disgusts me. He didn't "like" her, just loved the attention and sympathy he was getting from her. WH since been diagnosed with all sorts by a psych. The fact he USED her for his own selfish ideas (not needs, they were being met at home) with no intention of honoring her at all also makes me sick. How disrespectful. I find myself DEFENDING his OW and not ever allowing him to bad mouth her at all.

 

IMO my WH must despise women in ways.

 

So I'm not speaking for anyone else's case, only my own. No one else was thinking of my children but me. WH wasn't covering my back, he was stabbing me in the back.

 

Yes my WH has my ls user name. I insist upon it. He checks my posts regularly. I've not posted anything here nor spoken to friends about anything unless I've communicated it first to WH.

He doesn't deserve my respect but since we're in "R" I choose to.

 

If a person has a healthy character and honours THEMSELVES I believe they would never enter the cheater's world. Good person / bad person really pales in comparison to devastating families. If you are M and do fall in love with an OW / OM, sure it's sad for the Betrayed .... for a little while! Doing the partially honourable thing from THAT point onwards is to tell the truth and bail.

 

Be faithful to yourself.

Lion Heart.

[autumnnight]

I do not think one action or a few actions define someone as good or horrible. A long standing, ongoing pattern of actions along with a defensive and/or "who cares" view of bad actions can begin to define someone. Spending one's life living those bad actions....then we are getting to the point where yes, said person is probably bad.

 

However, when a person comes to a forum like this with the kind of questions and feelings you have, then no, I do not think you are some horrible person. Because you exhibit the presence of a conscience. And honestly, that is the time for people with chips, agendas, and axes to grind need to have the maturity to put those aside and truly help, or have the maturity to know they cannot put those aside and shut up/stay away.

[privategal]

Are we (MOW,MOM,OW,OM) just horrible people for letting ourselves get involved in these affairs? Are we completely devoid of feelings? I really struggle, for obvious reasons, to understand how I came to this place in my life when I was one of those people who always felt affairs were such a disgrace. I had no tolerance for anyone who engaged in such destructive behavior. To me there was no excuse that someone could give for being in an affair. Yet here I sit, ticking of excuse after excuse for why I find myself in this predicament and trying to convince myself that I really am not a bad person, just someone who lost her way. I want to blame him because that makes it easier to face myself in the mirror everyday. It's not his fault, at least not for my role in this mess. He has tried to take the blame for this at times, but really it's my fault. I should have been the one to say no. I lost my voice somewhere and I don't know how or even when that happened it's been so long.

 

I think I am a horrible person who is having a hard time admitting to myself what a cluster my life has become because of this.

 

Im not certain what good it does to ask yourself these questions or stay stuck in a self defeating or self loathing place.

You can greive the ending, or end it if it has not yet...but the self hatred wont do anything to move you forward.

Id face the sadness, the loss, seek forgiveness within yourself for you, then later for him when its possible, and other than that, find redemption in charity, in giving of yourself and your time to valuable causes and virtuous things.

The past cant be changed, its not easy to get past it, you had your reasons for entering it and that was then, but it is possible by positive thinking, in redemption by seeking to do the right thing starting now. Good luck and wishing you and all of us strength and peace and courage to go forward.

[Auspecial]

I think that when a person does something wrong, they *should* feel remorse and guilt about it.

 

I have never understood how a person can completely lose all self control in this area, especially if they "always despised cheaters and thought they would never cheat."

 

I have many times had very strong attractions but I don't act on them if its inappropriate.

 

As for being "horrible," I guess at this point finding redemption is what matters. I guess that process is different for each person, but to me it would include doing everything in my power to satisfy the person cheated on, and if we split for good, I would carry being giving to that person into the future.

 

I think at some point, you would begin to accept (although not like) that aspect of your life and learn from it and regain the self control you had before, and not do it ever again.

 

I don't believe in the popular mantra that people are not made to be monogamous. We have brains and a super conscious and we can make informed decisions about what we do with our bodies.

[Chasing_mya]

Blu, I could of written your post word for word because I have the very same thoughts. I don't think we are horrible people, we just made not so great decisions. I also judged people who cheated and now I'm a hypocrite. The good thing is that I've learned from this. I've learned to never say never, to not be so quick to judge, to put the shoe on the other foot, that we are human with flaws. We have to be in certain situations to show and reflect to us what's broken in us. This is when we need to take the time to do some soul searching and heal ourselves. This is an opportunity to find tune why we went down this path and how not to go there again. We all have our demons, whether is drug addiction or whatever but no one is perfect. We just have to learn from our mistakes and move on. Start by not putting yourself down, it draws more negative energy. Pick yourself up, dust yourself off and keep your head up. Live your truth, do what makes your soul happy....only you know what that is.

[Cinnimon]

Lion Heart

Not to thread jack but I have to ask you , when you asked your WH what would have have happened if the A hadn't been exposed, what was his response?

 

I know that I was GROOMED by MM to stay involved in the A,looking back I also groomed myself. Did I ever think about the W and the child, yes I did but slowly in listening to him more than I listened to myself I was able to "believe" that in his "bad" marriage that he would be doing them a favor by leaving them to be in an "honest" relationship with me. Sounds so stupid to me now but at the time it was how I could live with myself and do what I was doing.

 

I used to ask him if he had ever talked to his wife about how he felt in his marriage and he would say no, which astounded me. In the end I began to truly understand while he professing his love and future faking BS that the ONE of the main reasons he would never leave is because he would have to walk out on a spouse that had no clue why he was doing so. He would have to admit to her that he never said anything about how he was feeling (if he really felt that way at all).

He was a liar. He was a manipulator.

He was a cheater. I had become a liar, a cheater and a manipulator too and why, because I loved him. That isn't what love is supposed to be, feel or do.

 

I am actually tearing up right now typing this because it hurts to know I was so stupid in believing anything someone cheating on their spouse would say.......

[solostand]

I was a single OW and for me, it was insidious how I came to be in an affair. First, he spent a lot of time grooming me. His wife was nameless, faceless to me. He told me they lived like brother and sister, and I actually BELIEVED it. It was easy to compartmentalize when I didn't know her and for the longest time I didn't even know her name. Over time I came to learn too much about her, and that she did not agree they were living like brothers and sister. By that time I was so far into the fog I lapped it up. He would speak meanly about his wife and I somehow felt validated! It was almost set up that she was my enemy.

[Blu72]

Thank you all for your responses. They all have given me more to think about. I guess, for me, this is a part of the process to discovering why I allowed this to take place and why for so long. I look back at the person who I used to be - the woman who would never ever even contemplate an affair - and the hypocrite I am today and I wonder how that changed seemingly over night. I had been propositioned a few times before (working in a predominately male field) and ran in the other direction without hesitation. It wasn't even a question - HELL no, go away. But for some reason it was different with him. I let my guard down way too easily. Was it him? Or the timing? Or just me? I'm trying to figure out what triggered the switch to flip in me where I didn't run screaming for the hills. Could it have been anyone at that time? Or is it him? I don't know.

 

Thank you for letting me work this through a little on here.

[the_artist_1970]

Thank you all for your responses. They all have given me more to think about. I guess, for me, this is a part of the process to discovering why I allowed this to take place and why for so long. I look back at the person who I used to be - the woman who would never ever even contemplate an affair - and the hypocrite I am today and I wonder how that changed seemingly over night. I had been propositioned a few times before (working in a predominately male field) and ran in the other direction without hesitation. It wasn't even a question - HELL no, go away. But for some reason it was different with him. I let my guard down way too easily. Was it him? Or the timing? Or just me? I'm trying to figure out what triggered the switch to flip in me where I didn't run screaming for the hills. Could it have been anyone at that time? Or is it him? I don't know.

 

Thank you for letting me work this through a little on here.

 

I think you seriously need to ask yourself why you were propositioned by more than one guy you work with. Is it some kind of vibe you are giving off? Do you have poor boundaries and spend time alone with male co-workers. I too work in a male dominated field and I am surrounded by men whom I have worked with for years and they KNOW not to proposition me. I keep a very hard wall up and I draw a line in the sand to let them know that I will be in HR if they even tried to approach me in a nonprofessional manner. And God forbid a MM would even THINK that I would be his side chick.

 

As far is are you a bad person, who knows. But you being M and having an A on your unsuspecting DH is VERY bad. When he finds out, he will think of you as the scum of the earth, and while he will still love you there will always be a part of him that is disgusted by your affair to the point where he will want to regurgitate when he thinks about you and your AP being together. I can tell you that I love and adore my DH to death but on DDay and a while after, he was the scum of the earth to me.

 

I suggest getting in therapy and stop all of the lying and cheating.

[carhill]

OP, one aspect to consider is the delineation between what you characterize as a horrible act, infidelity, and horrible ruling a person. As example, would you characterize yourself or a person who is unfaithful as treating all interactions in life in a horrible manner? Does horrible rule them? Each of us answers that question for ourselves, and not just regarding infidelity but any behavior which could be characterized as horrible. There are many. Anyway, food for reflection.

 

If you need help sorting through this, I'd second the suggestion for working with a professional. They can give you tools to work through this and find answers which you can rely upon in the future. There's a lot to be said for finding clarity and peace. Good luck!

[Blu72]

To answer your question, no I don't feel I gave off a vibe. You don't have to give off a vibe for some man to flirt or try to come on to you. It happens, obviously. One time it was a boss and it was dealt with by HR because I wasnt the only one he would be inappropriate with. So, no you don't have to come off as a 'slut' for some man to think he can be inappropriate, if that is what you were getting at.

[SincereOnlineGuy]

Are we (MOW,MOM,OW,OM) just horrible people for letting ourselves get involved in these affairs? Are we completely devoid of feelings? I really struggle, for obvious reasons, to understand how I came to this place in my life when I was one of those people who always felt affairs were such a disgrace. I had no tolerance for anyone who engaged in such destructive behavior. To me there was no excuse that someone could give for being in an affair. Yet here I sit, ticking of excuse after excuse for why I find myself in this predicament and trying to convince myself that I really am not a bad person, just someone who lost her way. I want to blame him because that makes it easier to face myself in the mirror everyday. It's not his fault, at least not for my role in this mess. He has tried to take the blame for this at times, but really it's my fault. I should have been the one to say no. I lost my voice somewhere and I don't know how or even when that happened it's been so long.

 

I think I am a horrible person who is having a hard time admitting to myself what a cluster my life has become because of this.

 

 

 

You're not altogether horrible on the scale of mass murderers and/or Hitler...

 

You just (and perhaps for reasons not even of your own origin) didn't get the instruction booklet for the best emotional life resulting from first investing yourself in one direction and then building on THAT rather than beginning anew each time you have an impulse, for whatever reason.

 

SO, one first wonders: to what degree can (the wrong) adult partner cause/inspire a once-decent-seeming person to willingly cross the line???

 

And the answer is: Who knows???

 

 

I'm sure that the adults and their behavior in a child's formative years can inspire that child to prove a mismatch to the aforementioned instruction booklet.

 

So are any and all future partners of that child doomed to similar behavior??? Who knows???

 

Can one fully get there after entering adulthood when relatively unaffected ???

 

Hard to say... but my vibe is that those who are fortunate enough to reach adulthood without having been severely affected (by markedly inappropriate behavior by an adult role model during formative years) should have an easier time of it in not putting up with such behavior from a spouse AND not becoming one of them...

 

but who knows???

[the_artist_1970]

To answer your question, no I don't feel I gave off a vibe. You don't have to give off a vibe for some man to flirt or try to come on to you. It happens, obviously. One time it was a boss and it was dealt with by HR because I wasnt the only one he would be inappropriate with. So, no you don't have to come off as a 'slut' for some man to think he can be inappropriate, if that is what you were getting at.

 

In NO way was I insinuating that you came off as a slut. I apologize if it read that way. I just know that a lot of times ppl have poor boundaries or give off certain vibes that let ppl know its OK to come on to them. Of course we all get hit on by other ppl but I think that too many ppl get to close at work with ppl of the opposite sex. I am very guarded at work and I have a rule to never go to lunch or spend alone time with members of the opposite sex. To some ppl its extreme but It has worked well for me for decades. I safeguard myself and my M by putting up huge barriers to make sure I don't fall into something that would violate myself, my marriage or my husband.

[GoBlue]

Are we (MOW,MOM,OW,OM) just horrible people for letting ourselves get involved in these affairs? Are we completely devoid of feelings?...I think I am a horrible person who is having a hard time admitting to myself what a cluster my life has become because of this.

 

I wouldn't use the word "horrible" but I would use "sinner." The real issue here is not that you are devoid of feelings but that you allowed your own feelings to override your concern for others (i.e., his wife and kids). The good news is you wouldn't be having these guilt issues if you were void of a conscience. The real question is simple - what are you going to do with your guilt? Continue to push it down so you can continue with your actions, or will you allow it to produce the fruit of repentance and make a new choice (and in my opinion a much better one)? My thoughts and prayers are with you.

[Hope Shimmers]

In NO way was I insinuating that you came off as a slut. I apologize if it read that way.

 

Honestly, your other post came across strongly in that direction to me too. It was similar to saying that people who get raped were "asking for it". So I appreciate the correction as well.

 

I have a rule to never go to lunch or spend alone time with members of the opposite sex.

 

If I have to live that way with half the world's population in order to safeguard my marriage, then I'll stay single, thank you very much. Just my own opinion!

[Hope Shimmers]

I don't believe in the popular mantra that people are not made to be monogamous. We have brains and a super conscious and we can make informed decisions about what we do with our bodies.

 

It isn't a 'mantra'. It's biology. People are not biologically wired to be monogamous. It's a scientific fact.

 

That does NOT mean that people cannot make conscious choices to behave in a certain manner. So it is not an excuse. However it does mean that it can be difficult to avoid the natural biologic tendency when trying to uphold the societal expectation of monogamy.

[ComingInHot]

Blue72,

I often wondered how 'the other woman' was able to reconcile her actions and behaviors against her sense of right and wrong.

 

Thing is, if I were to think of you as a horrible person then... gulp*... I would have to acknowledge that I am a horrible person, just for different reasons.

 

You gave in to what you knew was NOT a good thing because somewhere inside you, you wanted it or at least some part of it ie; the feelings it gave you including the fear etc...

 

I gave in a stayed after I KNEW he was never going to change from being a bully because of the feelings it gave me.

Dude I totally Suck for staying in a stitch as long as I did and allowed my kids to be part of that.

 

So, here's the tough part for ALL of us, once we acknowledge that what we are doing is Wrong/Unhealthy/Sin/Hurtful (to ourselves AND others), we are then 'supposed' to make a change and STOP the behavior.

 

If that were an Easy thing to do, I'd have been gone EONS before I actually had the strength to do it. I cannot imagine what it must be like for you.

 

I think you will get there.

I believe you are closer than you think.

I have faith that you are Not a horrible person!

CiH*

[Grapesofwrath]

I think about this a lot, too. I don't think it's as simple as "good" people or "bad" people. I don't think people fit into simple categories like that. That said, I think some people have stronger character than other people. Some people have stronger beliefs than other people and are able to honor commitments better than other people. Some people aren't afraid of hard work. Some people are better able to say the difficult thing. Some people have more courage. Some people are more patient. Some people are more forgiving. Some people are more selfish. Some people feel more entitled.

 

For me, I would never have imagined myself in this kind of relationship. I think, however, that this man somehow could sense that I was at a vulnerable point (post divorce, and healing from an abusive relationship). A point at which I was open to being in something flimsy. That I was essentially unavailable (emotionally) and so I would be okay with someone else who is also unavailable. That I was at a place where I was easily seduced by adoration, attention, and sex. I have no idea how he sensed that, but he did. And he came after me with laser precision (which is partly why I don't believe him when he says he has been faithful to his wife for the past 20 years. A faithful husband doesn't have that kind of game.)

[minimariah]

It isn't a 'mantra'. It's biology. People are not biologically wired to be monogamous. It's a scientific fact.

 

no, it's not. it's not scientifically proven, at all.

you have so many different theories & studies on the evolution of monogamy that it's hard to scientifically prove anything. not to mention how people in general confuse polygamy & polyamory with promiscuity. ALSO, you have different types of monogamy (sexual, social...) so it's hard discussing it because usually everyone has their own definition of monogamy.

 

the fact that a lot of people tend to **** around on their SO does not mean that they aren't monogamous, not at all. also, with affairs - a lot of people, in fact, ARE monogamous while having an A because their relationship with the spouse can be basically non - existent. the fact that people cheat and leave their relationships for others - they simply go from one monogamous life to another, only with a different person.

 

some people are wired to be mono, some folks are wired to be poly. it depends on everyone's situation. i once read a paper about monogamy being "created" solely for the kids - it's the way humans take care of their young ones, no? if that is true, than monogamy IS, in fact, natural to us and to the way we take care of our young ones, the way we chose to preserve the species. besides, it's hard talking about what is or isn't NATURAL to us. watching TV and shaving armpits, brushing our teeth isn't natural, either. the "natural" kind of got lost with the evolution.

 

in addition - poly families & communities are RARELY successful so that system isn't working for us humans, either.

 

so it's really a slipperyslope kind of discussion.

 

i will say one thing that IS proven - it isn't natural for humans to be with one person and one person only for their entire lives. that's why we usually have more than just one mono relationships in our life.