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Maintaining dignity in an affair.


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not really sure how to start this thread, my thoughts are all over the place so... bare with me on this beautiful Saturday, LOL.

 

i was thinking a lot about an A + courage, dignity and integrity in general. and i was asking myself... is it possible to carry on an A (& end it) with respect, dignity and integrity? now, i know how ridiculous i sound.

 

but is it the same it you have an A and decide to leave your spouse for your AP in... let's say... just a couple of months? is that the same thing as someone who is cakeeating for years? does the person in 1st case have more dignity and integrity than the person in 2nd case?

 

i guess my question was... can you have an A and keep your dignity and integrity to some extent or is that simply impossible?

 

i was thinking more about those cases where people genuinely have good marriages but found someone who makes them even happier - that's also my other question. can an A (at least the emotional one) just happen? is it possible to become too close to someone and fall in love without realizing it (and when you do realize it, it's too late)? so it you have an EA without realizing it + leave when you DO realize it... is your dignity, integrity intact?

 

i'm just rambling, y'all.

hope you all have a good, nice weekend.

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I believe you can be attracted to anyone. However, to fall in love with someone, that is not something passive that just happens. You have to water the garden so to speak. You don't meet someone on the street and boom fall in love.

 

As far as dignity and integrity, well I guess we all have different views on that. All that matters is if you feel you have dignity and integrity.

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Thanks for posting this question. Its a great topic IMO. I was just talking about this with my therapist. Like the other poster said we define dignity for ourselves at a personal level. Its something that I think causes a lot of arguments and judging on these boards sometimes. Personally I think its about living life congruently. Your thoughts words and actions align. I agree love doesn't 'just happen' but people can make choices from a place of emotional ignorance or disconnect. I think often when people end the affair quickly its to put an end to that cognitive dissonance or split self and start living in line with their principles again which for many people includes honesty and accountability. They want to reclaim lost dignity even if they aren't aware that's what they're doing or that's what its called . For the cakeeaters, they might have different values or no values. They may feel they have their dignity but if they promised fidelity and have no issues with not living to their word its fair to say theyve lost integrity. I lost my dignity within my marriage even before my A, then lost my integrity by having A, and lowered my dignity even more with the things I put up with from exMM because he made me "feel special". My self esteem was nowhere to be found because I was looking for it from external sources.

Most traditional marriage arrangements do not allow for personal integrity and dignity while also maintaining an A.

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sorry, but ... dignity and "affair" aren't interrelated. dignity in an affair, even less. i mean, seriously...HOW???

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sorry, but ... dignity and "affair" aren't interrelated. dignity in an affair, even less. i mean, seriously...HOW???

 

OP is trying to resolve some severe cognitive dissonance.

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Your Integrity and Dignity are directly proportionate to the amount of guilt and shame you feel about being in the Affair, and how far you are into it.

 

But the fact that you (generic) are considering launching into an EA/PA, already denotes a preliminary erosion of those two qualities.

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i guess my question was... can you have an A and keep your dignity and integrity to some extent or is that simply impossible?

 

Since you define dignity and integrity individually, certainly it's possible, for you. As humans, we live our own lives and choose to form or participate in social groups and, if those social groups have differing definitions of dignity and integrity, we may find ourselves in conflict or at loggerheads with those social groups.

 

Pick a good read about any world war for obvious indicators of who 'allies' and 'enemies' are.

 

There are always going to be people who judge affair participants and hate them, just like with nearly any other activity on the planet. There are always haters. Your job is to live your life, survive, and in a manner which is productive and meaningful to you. With billions of humans on the planet, you, me and them are individually insignificant, though we generally feel quite important to ourselves. That's just the organism justifying its survival and our higher thinking processes putting the id's spin on it. Do what you do. Avoid world war if possible!

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"Your job is to live your life, survive, and in a manner which is productive and meaningful to you. "

 

 

Selfish people usually insist on having things their own way at the expense of others.

 

Without empathy for others, selfish people can irrationally justify and rationalize their hurtful and unlawful behaviors.

 

When we think that we are automatically entitled to something, that is when we start walking all over others to get it. Where's the "dignity" in that?

 

People need to learn that their actions in A's do affect other people.

 

Life is not always just about you

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autumnnight

I don't know. Does a person who lies, deceives, sleeps with someone else's spouse or someone other than their spouse have dignity and integrity? Can you be a burglar and not a theif? Can you cheat on your taxes and be honest?

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Hypergamy & GIGS at it's finest. We are extremely selfish creates there is no doubt about that.

 

I've done it before & I felt terrible for the guy that she cheated on. How is it that their RL is not doomed? She won't ever tell him. I will never get involved with a woman with a bf, NEVER again. If she left past partners this way she will more than likely do it again!

 

IMO you can throw integrity and dignity out the door. Karma can be a bitch, these toxic behaviors may come back and haunt you. Or maybe they will just move fine without any repercussions? Only time will tell. I guess some people just lack emotional intelligence?

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not really sure how to start this thread, my thoughts are all over the place so... bare with me on this beautiful Saturday, LOL.

 

i was thinking a lot about an A + courage, dignity and integrity in general. and i was asking myself... is it possible to carry on an A (& end it) with respect, dignity and integrity? now, i know how ridiculous i sound.

 

but is it the same it you have an A and decide to leave your spouse for your AP in... let's say... just a couple of months? is that the same thing as someone who is cakeeating for years? does the person in 1st case have more dignity and integrity than the person in 2nd case?

 

i guess my question was... can you have an A and keep your dignity and integrity to some extent or is that simply impossible?

 

i was thinking more about those cases where people genuinely have good marriages but found someone who makes them even happier - that's also my other question. can an A (at least the emotional one) just happen? is it possible to become too close to someone and fall in love without realizing it (and when you do realize it, it's too late)? so it you have an EA without realizing it + leave when you DO realize it... is your dignity, integrity intact?

 

i'm just rambling, y'all.

hope you all have a good, nice weekend.

 

I think the presence or lack thereof of - let's call it "honor" altogether - depends solely on the nature of the affair. Forex, if you have an affair with an emotionally abused or neglected person, that could be honorable to a degree, inasmuch as you'd be helping them in a certain sense by ministering to their emotional and physical needs. Altho sneaking around is never really an dignified approach to doing that, and the better thing to do would be to end the marriage/relationship first. But that then begs the question of how doable even that is - is the cheater locked into their marriage by an abusive or controlling partner, obligated by financial concerns, etc.?

 

The flip side is that I don't think you can find any honor in an affair that's just a romp in the hay, no matter how you behave yourself within it. If it's based on fundamental dishonesty, there's no dignity, respect, courage, or integrity there.

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I think the presence or lack thereof of - let's call it "honor" altogether - depends solely on the nature of the affair. Forex, if you have an affair with an emotionally abused or neglected person, that could be honorable to a degree, inasmuch as you'd be helping them in a certain sense by ministering to their emotional and physical needs. Altho sneaking around is never really an dignified approach to doing that, and the better thing to do would be to end the marriage/relationship first. But that then begs the question of how doable even that is - is the cheater locked into their marriage by an abusive or controlling partner, obligated by financial concerns, etc.?

 

The flip side is that I don't think you can find any honor in an affair that's just a romp in the hay, no matter how you behave yourself within it. If it's based on fundamental dishonesty, there's no dignity, respect, courage, or integrity there.

 

I've kinda held to the believe you stated toward the end. However, I'd never really given much consideration to incidentally helping an abused person see life on the other side. I agree, ideally separation prior to getting involved is best, but I can see how, in some instances, that someone in a horrible situation doesn't realize their potential until an outsider opens their eyes. Good perspective I hadnt considered.

 

Btw, you are a very intellectual person. You shared some info in another post about courts cases and custody. I was talking to a friend who could def. benefit from the lengthy post choked full of helpful Info. but now I can't find it :-(.

 

Hopefully I will be able to locate that post later. Thanks for taking the time to share!

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So I can rob a bank for my poor friend and it's not a crime.....

 

How is a politician playing the system to their advantage, any different from someone who steals the plants from your garden and replaces them with plastic ones?

 

An affair with a married person is furnishing your garden with artificial, plastic plants.

It may look good to begin with, but in fact, is just a front; it's camouflage, and pretty soon, will look jaded, faded ad decidedly worse for wear.

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sorry, but ... dignity and "affair" aren't interrelated. dignity in an affair, even less. i mean, seriously...HOW???

 

i know it sounds ridiculous because the A includes a lot of lies, cheating, hiding, sneaking around & deceit. and an A itself cannot be something that is... dignified or respectful. i get that.

 

but my question was - if you do find yourself in an A - can you do it respectfully and can you preserve at least a little dignity while you're at it? i'll explain further.

 

OP is trying to resolve some severe cognitive dissonance.

 

something like this, yeah... LOL.

 

I don't know. Does a person who lies, deceives, sleeps with someone else's spouse or someone other than their spouse have dignity and integrity? Can you be a burglar and not a theif? Can you cheat on your taxes and be honest?

 

okay. how about this - are all burglars equally immoral & lack equal amount of dignity, integrity and respect? i'll give two examples.

 

1. my father had an A with his OW, for a short period of time (and by that i mean couple of months). now, for THAT time - he for sure lacked integrity and respect for his W (my mother) & didn't handle things the right way - but he quickly composed himself and admitted everything to his W with dignity (if such thing exists, by that i mean expressed remorse and regret), separated & divorced her in order to be with his OW. they're happily married for over a decade now.

 

2. i have a colleague who was cheating on his W very openly, for almost a year until the W discovered, kicked him out. he dumped the OW & he and his W are now reconciled.

 

my question is - are both of these men lacking an equal amount of integrity and dignity and morals? that's what i meant by "carrying on with the A with some kind of dignity, with some form of integrity" - i meant as in, having an A for a short period of time & then making decisions quickly and taking some action fast. choosing and doing something about it - as in, not letting people suffer for too long.

 

i noticed that people are easily forgiving of an A when the APs end up together as a successful couple. it does not justify an A, but people look at it as a mistake, a lapse in judgement. something like - oh, the entire situation came unexpectedly and they made a mistake but quickly got it together, got it right and learned something from it.

 

i also noticed that people have somehow "worse" opinion on those who dump the OW/OM & are caught (as opossed to those who admit by themselves) and stay with the spouse (maybe i'm wrong, it's just my experience).

 

i'm rambling again, guys. LOL. *puts the weed away*

anyway, i guess my point was this - if you had an A, does that automatically mean that you have no dignity, integrity and respect? or can we, in some cases, look at the A as something that was a huge mistake but the person eventually done it right, moved on, was honest?

 

and when i talked about carrying an A on with some respect, this is what i meant - some adulterers bash their spouses, have sex in marital beds, meet their AP with the kids while still married & some have sex in a "neutral" territory, never bash the spouse, try to keep the A as private as possible, never mention the kids... that was what i talked about - can you do something that is morally wrong (an A) but mantain some kind of respect and dignity while doing it?

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autumnnight

Look, it is not that hard. If you are lying, you're a liar. If you are cheating, you're a cheater. If you are helping someone cheat, you are enabling a liar and cheater.

 

None of those things is compatible with integrity. And people without integrity do not have any real dignity.

 

Spinning it through use of justifications or reasons is just one more illustraion that integrity has gone out the window.

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Look, it is not that hard. If you are lying, you're a liar. If you are cheating, you're a cheater. If you are helping someone cheat, you are enabling a liar and cheater.

 

None of those things is compatible with integrity. And people without integrity do not have any real dignity.

 

Spinning it through use of justifications or reasons is just one more illustraion that integrity has gone out the window.

 

the thing is - if you lied for a short period of time (or for longer, it doesn't matter), stopped & never lied to anyone again (for an example) - does that make you a liar? if you cheated once for some period & stopped with it, never did it again - are you still labeled a "cheater"?

 

i'm sure you've lied, too. at some point.

do you consider yourself a liar?

 

i'm not justifying it at all.

an A is wrong... no justifications, really.

 

i'm asking does that A "marks" you for the rest of your life as someone who has no dignity, integrity even in cases when you don't ever make that mistake again?

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autumnnight
the thing is - if you lied for a short period of time (or for longer, it doesn't matter), stopped & never lied to anyone again (for an example) - does that make you a liar? if you cheated once for some period & stopped with it, never did it again - are you still labeled a "cheater"?

 

i'm sure you've lied, too. at some point.

do you consider yourself a liar?

 

i'm not justifying it at all.

an A is wrong... no justifications, really.

 

i'm asking does that A "marks" you for the rest of your life as someone who has no dignity, integrity even in cases when you don't ever make that mistake again?

 

While you are cheating and lying, yes, you are a liar. If you stop but never come clean, you may no longer be cheating or actively lying, but I believe you are at the very least a passive liar - lying by omission.

 

If you look your bad choices in the face, turn from them, embrace honesty, and live with integrity from that day forward, then no, that "label" does not need to be fixed on your forever. But, understand that people who do not believe in redemption or forgiveness likely WILL keep you labeled forever. I am not saying they are right, only that it happens.

 

BUT, a person who is trying to find loopholes by which they can cheat and get away with it is already acting without integrity. That is like saying, :

"I know this will hurt so and so, but I'll say lm sorry afterward." Is said person REALLY sorry?

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While you are cheating and lying, yes, you are a liar. If you stop but never come clean, you may no longer be cheating or actively lying, but I believe you are at the very least a passive liar - lying by omission.

 

but that's what i'm writing about - can we put those who keep quiet & those who admit and leave in the same box? both had an A and yes, they were liars and cheaters and at that point (while the A lasted) had no dignity or integrity or respect (i also already wrote that). but if someone admits, apologizes and separates/divorces from that person... lets that person free - can you still claim they have no dignity or integrity or respect?

 

like... if someone does something in their life, if they have a period where they lose their morals/dignity/integrity - can they have those values back? or are those values truly tested in a situation like being tempted by an A - and if you fail, does that mean that you in reality don't have any, even if you decide to live honestly from that point on?

 

how do you know you really have values, dignity and integrity if you're never tempted? can those things even be learned, brought back, lost...?

 

for those not believing in in redemption & forgiveness - i know they aren't right. saying that you don't believe in redemption & forgiveness is like... saying you don't believe in feelings at all. :-/

 

BUT, a person who is trying to find loopholes by which they can cheat and get away with it is already acting without integrity. That is like saying, :

"I know this will hurt so and so, but I'll say lm sorry afterward." Is said person REALLY sorry?

 

i wasn't talking about reasons why who cheated. only about the A + ending it (the A or the M).

 

you have folks who don't try to cheat. of course, an A does not just happen out if the blue but people do fall in love and realize it late. and then they act on those feelings while struggling to find the right moment for a confession. again, not saying that it's justified... not at all. you're still cheating and lying but it doesn't mean that people aren't genuinely sorry & feel guilty. now you'll probably say - well, if they do, why don't they stop? and those who truly do feel that way, do stop. they take quick action. it's not easy for some folks to come clean right away/stop the A. it really isn't that black and white.

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Since most things in life come with exceptions, let me share the following:

 

A husband of 45 years had a wife. She was deemed a candidate for nursing home care. She had Alzheimers and he worried about her safety. For three years faithfully three days a week he came in to clothes, feed and sit with her. He genuinely loved her. Then one day he brought in a lady with him. Introduced her to the staff and may I say, she was a gracious lady. Stunning in demeanor and genuinely grasp'ed the scenario. She was his "girlfriend". She and I conversed some evenings and at no point were we disrespecting of the wife. She said...He asked the courts for a divorce so that we could be married. The courts denied the request because the wife was unable to contest or be aware of the proceedings. They told him he would still be accountable for her healthcare and well being. He agreed that he would still continue to do all that but to please grant the divorce. It was declined. So "technically" He was cheating on the wife an "technically" the stunning lady was his affair partner...Yet because this topic is "can it be feasible to have dignity and such", this case above says yes its feasible.

 

For those who step outside a marriage though in the normal sense (although I debate that it is normal???), then Nope, there is no dignity to be had. Deception is no where in the dictionary when defining Dignity. Although it is the antonym!

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autumnnight

Let's try this scenario, and NO I am not making a comparison.

 

Man A molests his daughter. He feels terrible eventually and stops and never mentions it again.

 

Man B molests his daughter. He feels terrible, comes clean, gets counseling, and shows remorse to his daughter.

 

Only one of the men in the above scenario actually regained integrity. The other simply stopped molesting.

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For me dignity and affair are words that don't go together.

 

I am SO open minded but that's a threshold I am not willing to cross.

 

I understand swinging, I understand group sex. When everyone is aware of it. But cheating? No I don't understand. It lacks dignity to the person you married.

 

Sick of your partner? Have dignity, yes... and say goodbye.

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Let's try this scenario, and NO I am not making a comparison.

 

Man A molests his daughter. He feels terrible eventually and stops and never mentions it again.

 

Man B molests his daughter. He feels terrible, comes clean, gets counseling, and shows remorse to his daughter.

 

Only one of the men in the above scenario actually regained integrity. The other simply stopped molesting.

 

it's really an unfortunate scenario. in my opinion, a molester (child abuser) can never regain integrity - no matter what.

 

but i am talking about cases where someone does admit to an A & actually leaves the spouse for their AP. i'm not talking about cheaters who stay quiet - this thread is about those who either come clean and stay or divorce & move on with their lives. the question is - are THOSE people dignified, do they have integrity? can integrity even be regained?

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i noticed that people are easily forgiving of an A when the APs end up together as a successful couple. it does not justify an A, but people look at it as a mistake, a lapse in judgement. something like - oh, the entire situation came unexpectedly and they made a mistake but quickly got it together, got it right and learned something from it.

 

Only IRL, not on LS. On LS it is, if anything, worse if the MM dumps the BW and rides off into the sunset with the OW - especially if they go on to live together happily and don't return crying their eyes out about how it was all a terrible mistake and how they are such dreadful people for ever even considering it. God preserve the happy post-A couple - even a WS and BS that reconcile are treated with suspicion and scorn.

 

IRL it's a different matter. A fWS who reconciles successfully, or leaves the M and goes on to form a happy, healthy R with the fAP, is typically embraced within their family and social circles, their happiness and hard work celebrated, their "misdemeanour" filed away amongst "lessons learned" as a resource for others who may struggle with similar issues in future. On LS they're simply lightning rods to attract all the anger, pain and raw emotion triggered by infidelity.

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it's really an unfortunate scenario. in my opinion, a molester (child abuser) can never regain integrity - no matter what.

 

It's par for the course. If a worse crime than child abuse could be conceived, then infidelity would be compared to that on LS.

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