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Hurting from doing 'the right thing'


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Southern Sun

I've been reading here for some time, and considering what happened today, finally decided to post.

 

I am married, two kids, thought it was happily - yet found myself in an affair with someone at work, who I have known for many years. He is also married with children.

 

I know all the cliches, I know it was wrong, I know. We fell in love. It was up and down and back and forth for over a year. My husband discovered the truth a couple of months ago. We both knew that we had to end things. I need to see if I can make my marriage good again. He is potentially going through a divorce (I may have been his exit affair). We are on different paths. We kept putting off the end...until today. We finally said goodbye.

 

I am hurting. We both expressed sincere feelings, but have to face reality. We left it with, if it's meant to be, it will be. But I know I have to totally let that go in order to refocus on my marriage.

 

I don't want to romanticize things. I am just scared and in pain, but also want to do what's right for my husband and children.

 

We are now no contact. Please, any words of support or advice? This is very difficult, saying goodbye to someone you simply don't want to say goodbye to.

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So let's be honest here: Had you NOT been discovered - would you still be seeing each other?

 

Because discovery puts a different slant on recovery.

 

Had it been a voluntary ending, without discovery, that would be one thing.

But if you ended it because the game was up - be honest: is your heart really into reconciling with your husband - because you want to, or because you think you ought to?

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Rainbowlove
I've been reading here for some time, and considering what happened today, finally decided to post.

 

I am married, two kids, thought it was happily - yet found myself in an affair with someone at work, who I have known for many years. He is also married with children.

 

I know all the cliches, I know it was wrong, I know. We fell in love. It was up and down and back and forth for over a year. My husband discovered the truth a couple of months ago. We both knew that we had to end things. I need to see if I can make my marriage good again. He is potentially going through a divorce (I may have been his exit affair). We are on different paths. We kept putting off the end...until today. We finally said goodbye.

 

I am hurting. We both expressed sincere feelings, but have to face reality. We left it with, if it's meant to be, it will be. But I know I have to totally let that go in order to refocus on my marriage.

 

I don't want to romanticize things. I am just scared and in pain, but also want to do what's right for my husband and children.

 

We are now no contact. Please, any words of support or advice? This is very difficult, saying goodbye to someone you simply don't want to say goodbye to.

 

My story is your story only the L Word version (lesbian) :)

 

My XAP used our affair as an exit to her marriage. It took me a long time to see that was her choice for herself to find happiness...it had absolutely nothing to do with me at all.

 

I stayed in my marriage. It's been 16 months post affair and I can tell you I'm seeing my affair, my affair partner, myself, my wife in a very different light.

 

We left it with, if it's meant to be, it will be. But I know I have to totally let that go in order to refocus on my marriage.

 

Yes, this thought will sabotage any real chance at recovery you may want, so work on letting that go.

 

If you asked me 16 months ago if I ever thought I would get over losing my XAP, I would have told you it would hurt until the day I die. I may have said that a month ago, but today...no way, I'm moving on.

 

You may not see the value of your marriage and husband for a long time.

 

If your husband is willing to forgive you and move forward, take the chance.

 

You have to stay NC.

 

Are you in counseling?

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Southern Sun
So let's be honest here: Had you NOT been discovered - would you still be seeing each other?

 

Because discovery puts a different slant on recovery.

 

Had it been a voluntary ending, without discovery, that would be one thing.

But if you ended it because the game was up - be honest: is your heart really into reconciling with your husband - because you want to, or because you think you ought to?

 

Would it be over if we hadn't been discovered? Honestly, I don't know. We tried multiple times to break it off, only to fail after a few days or weeks. Working with him never allowed me to totally move On. I have now quit that job.

 

As for your other questions regarding whether my heart is in it with my husband...I don't totally trust my own feelings right now. I Emotionally distanced myself from my husband during the affair, and frankly I'm not sure if we can get it back. But my hope is that my head is not right because of my involvement with this other man, and as I get some distance, things will be better.

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Southern Sun
My story is your story only the L Word version (lesbian) :)

 

My XAP used our affair as an exit to her marriage. It took me a long time to see that was her choice for herself to find happiness...it had absolutely nothing to do with me at all.

 

I stayed in my marriage. It's been 16 months post affair and I can tell you I'm seeing my affair, my affair partner, myself, my wife in a very different light.

 

 

 

Yes, this thought will sabotage any real chance at recovery you may want, so work on letting that go.

 

If you asked me 16 months ago if I ever thought I would get over losing my XAP, I would have told you it would hurt until the day I die. I may have said that a month ago, but today...no way, I'm moving on.

 

You may not see the value of your marriage and husband for a long time.

 

If your husband is willing to forgive you and move forward, take the chance.

 

You have to stay NC.

 

Are you in counseling?

 

Thank you! I am so grateful to not feel alone!

 

What do you think has helped change your perspective? I am scared of the time it may take, but I don't want to make irrational decisions based upon fleeting emotions. My husband wants to try. I know it's the only right thing to do. And I want to want him again.

 

I am in IC. She helped me to see that I will never really know how I feel about my marriage until AP is totally out of my life.

 

This is so hard :(. I almost wish I had never gone down this path.

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Rainbowlove
What do you think has helped change your perspective? I am scared of the time it may take, but I don't want to make irrational decisions based upon fleeting emotions. My husband wants to try. I know it's the only right thing to do. And I want to want him again.

 

It was the one thing you are scared of - time.

 

It's taken me a long time to get to this place of healing and peace in letting go my XAP.

 

My marriage is still very much in the thick of it. I suspect we will be working on this for the rest of our lives - not so much the affair recovery directly, but our marriage in general.

 

 

I am in IC. She helped me to see that I will never really know how I feel about my marriage until AP is totally out of my life.

 

Nothing could be more true than this statement. You owe it to yourself, your husband and your children to keep up with the no contact and giving yourself the time to move forward.

 

Wanting to want your spouse again may be a long way out. You've emotionally invested in someone else for a year. You gave your mind, heart and body to someone else. It's not going to be an easy road or quick fix, but you can get there again.

 

This is so hard :(. I almost wish I had never gone down this path.

 

Yes, don't we all wish we could be like Cher and "Turn back time" - but we can't. You'll kick yourself for it for a long time, but don't kick too hard for too long. It won't do anyone any good to beat yourself up forever. I'm just now, 16 months later, giving myself a break.

 

How is your husband coping?

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Southern Sun
How is your husband coping?

 

He is doing pretty well, considering. We have lots of ups and downs, but a few less downs lately. The one thing that would change how well he's doing is if he knew I did not immediately implement NC. I tried, but it was just so hard to end it that suddenly, out of the blue. We had become each others' best friend and biggest supporter. And then the whole experience of D Day made us closer in a way, because we were on the 'same side' and he was the only person that understood what I was going through, and vice versa. When my husband looked at me with disgust (rightfully so), my AP was there with open arms. It is so confusing. We acknowledged we had to end it immediately after D Day, but stayed in sporadic contact...until today.

 

I know I am doing the right thing. But my goodness, this hurts. There's no bad blood between me and AP. I almost wish there was.

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Doesn't really sound like your all that committed to fixing your marriage. This might just actually be a wake up call to you to get out of your marriage. People that cheat and realize they did wrong don't say they wished there was some kind of a blood connection with the AP.

 

I know that is not what you want to hear but its the truth. Have you looked at what it will take to get a divorce. The other part is you did not end Contact with the OM. I know you say your doing the right thing now but since you already hid this from your Husband I think the likely hood of you getting back in contact is great.

 

Have you talked to a lawyer? You might want to do this.

 

If your Husband does find out you might need to know where you stand legally.

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I've been reading here for some time, and considering what happened today, finally decided to post.

 

I am married, two kids, thought it was happily - yet found myself in an affair with someone at work, who I have known for many years. He is also married with children.

 

I know all the cliches, I know it was wrong, I know. We fell in love. It was up and down and back and forth for over a year. My husband discovered the truth a couple of months ago. We both knew that we had to end things. I need to see if I can make my marriage good again. He is potentially going through a divorce (I may have been his exit affair). We are on different paths. We kept putting off the end...until today. We finally said goodbye.

 

I am hurting. We both expressed sincere feelings, but have to face reality. We left it with, if it's meant to be, it will be. But I know I have to totally let that go in order to refocus on my marriage.

 

I don't want to romanticize things. I am just scared and in pain, but also want to do what's right for my husband and children.

 

We are now no contact. Please, any words of support or advice? This is very difficult, saying goodbye to someone you simply don't want to say goodbye to.

 

Southern Sun, Im sorry you are hurting, sounds like you are both deeply in love. You say you want to do the "right thing" but for who? Definitely not for you. You say you thought you were "happily married" but if that were true, would you have fallen in love with someone else, had an affair? Now you thinkwith the AP, you might fall back into love with your husband? Its not going to happen. There was something missing there before your affair. Your AP left his marriage, you have an opportunity to be with the one you love. Im all about truth. I think its noble , you want to try but I hope after a while, if you realize its not happening, dont stay in a marriage just to do the right thing. The right thing is to make yourself happy, then you can make everyone else happy around you. Starts with you first. Its not fair to your husband or kids if you are settling to do the "noble"thing. Its especially not fair to you. Seems like youre scared to take that leap of faith. Good luck

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Quiet Storm

You can make yourself happy without this guy. I strongly disagree with the above poster's idea that this one guy is your only path to happiness and that your happiness should be above the well being of your children.

 

When you decide to become a parent sometimes you must make sacrifices for your family. Find other ways to make yourself happy besides having an affair. If your husband is a good father, and you two had a good marriage, it's worth saving it. Your kids will be better off in an intact family. You are doing the right thing.

 

You have to stay no contact and give it time. Keep yourself busy, find joy in your kids. Try to focus on your husband's good qualities and why you fell in love with him in the first place. Push thoughts of MM away. It takes effort, but is doable. You don't have to be a slave to your emotions.

 

You are being a good mother by ending the affair and trying to save your marriage. Your emotions haven't followed your mind yet, but it will happen. You had a life before MM, and you can be happy after him. It just takes time, introspection and self awareness.

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Rainbowlove
You can make yourself happy without this guy. I strongly disagree with the above poster's idea that this one guy is your only path to happiness and that your happiness should be above the well being of your children.

 

When you decide to become a parent sometimes you must make sacrifices for your family. Find other ways to make yourself happy besides having an affair. If your husband is a good father, and you two had a good marriage, it's worth saving it. Your kids will be better off in an intact family. You are doing the right thing.

 

You have to stay no contact and give it time. Keep yourself busy, find joy in your kids. Try to focus on your husband's good qualities and why you fell in love with him in the first place. Push thoughts of MM away. It takes effort, but is doable. You don't have to be a slave to your emotions.

 

You are being a good mother by ending the affair and trying to save your marriage. Your emotions haven't followed your mind yet, but it will happen. You had a life before MM, and you can be happy after him. It just takes time, introspection and self awareness.

 

Every single word of this ^^^^^^

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I know too many couples that stay for the kids, try to do the right thing. Are miserable becsuse they are not being true to themselves. They stay and go thru the motions. No you dont need this man to make you happy but the point is you are in love with him. HE makes you happy., you have to be honest with yourself. Im saying try, but if you dont have those feelings for your husband anymore, after a while, you have to make a decision. I hope you will make one that is honest. Your AP is probably hurting just as much as you., I would give yourself a timeframe. You'll know when the time comes.

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Southern Sun
Doesn't really sound like your all that committed to fixing your marriage. This might just actually be a wake up call to you to get out of your marriage. People that cheat and realize they did wrong don't say they wished there was some kind of a blood connection with the AP.

 

I know that is not what you want to hear but its the truth. Have you looked at what it will take to get a divorce. The other part is you did not end Contact with the OM. I know you say your doing the right thing now but since you already hid this from your Husband I think the likely hood of you getting back in contact is great.

 

Have you talked to a lawyer? You might want to do this.

 

If your Husband does find out you might need to know where you stand legally.

 

I'm sorry, regarding the "blood connection" - I was saying there is no "bad blood" between me and AP, meaning that we aren't angry with each other, neither one of us hurt the other. If I had a reason to be angry with him, it would make ending this easier.

 

I know it would be easy for me to get back in touch with him, but I simply can't. I've known for a long time what needed to happen. I just had difficulty pulling the trigger.

 

I'll prepare myself legally if I need to, but as of now, all my eggs are in the marriage basket.

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Doesn't really sound like your all that committed to fixing your marriage. This might just actually be a wake up call to you to get out of your marriage. People that cheat and realize they did wrong don't say they wished there was some kind of a blood connection with the AP.

 

I know that is not what you want to hear but its the truth. Have you looked at what it will take to get a divorce. The other part is you did not end Contact with the OM. I know you say your doing the right thing now but since you already hid this from your Husband I think the likely hood of you getting back in contact is great.

 

Have you talked to a lawyer? You might want to do this.

 

If your Husband does find out you might need to know where you stand legally.

 

I agree with this whole statement. OP I'm not going to put down, but I am going to be honest with you. If your husband discovered this affair a few months ago and you just now ended this affair, then the odds are not in your favor. Yes, your husband chose to initially stay, but most men. It at the 10 month mark from D Day that most men decide to call it quits. You have already wasted two by not going NC. You don't have that much time left. The fatal mistake a lot of women make is thinking that because the husband chose to stay, he isn't going anywhere. Because of this, they do exactly what you are doing right now, which is taking forever to end things with the AP and holding to your affair. Now if you have a truly understanding husband, he may stick around while you detox from your AP. Those husbands are rare. Most either leave or have affairs of their own to help with their ego. Why am I telling you all of this? If what you want to do is save your marriage, you are going to have to start acting like it. By and read books, get into counseling, be honest with your husband, and most importantly be consitent. If you don't think that you can do these things, the end it now with your husband. I hate reading stories like yours. Husband does everything right and yet it's still not enough.

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Southern Sun
You can make yourself happy without this guy. I strongly disagree with the above poster's idea that this one guy is your only path to happiness and that your happiness should be above the well being of your children.

 

When you decide to become a parent sometimes you must make sacrifices for your family. Find other ways to make yourself happy besides having an affair. If your husband is a good father, and you two had a good marriage, it's worth saving it. Your kids will be better off in an intact family. You are doing the right thing.

 

You have to stay no contact and give it time. Keep yourself busy, find joy in your kids. Try to focus on your husband's good qualities and why you fell in love with him in the first place. Push thoughts of MM away. It takes effort, but is doable. You don't have to be a slave to your emotions.

 

You are being a good mother by ending the affair and trying to save your marriage. Your emotions haven't followed your mind yet, but it will happen. You had a life before MM, and you can be happy after him. It just takes time, introspection and self awareness.

 

Quiet Storm, your reply is so very helpful to me. I never fathomed I would end up in an affair. My husband is a good man, a great father. I got blindsided by my own emotions. I think deciding to follow them now would be a grave mistake. I don't think I'm clear-headed enough to know what's real.

 

It helps greatly to know that my emotions can follow my mind. That is what I'm hoping for. I believe the affair was a huge act of selfishness and not totally ending it now to give my marriage and family a fair chance would be even worse.

 

Thank you again. I've been in tears most of the day, but I also firmly believe I am doing the right thing. I just need to stay strong.

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Southern Sun
I agree with this whole statement. OP I'm not going to put down, but I am going to be honest with you. If your husband discovered this affair a few months ago and you just now ended this affair, then the odds are not in your favor. Yes, your husband chose to initially stay, but most men. It at the 10 month mark from D Day that most men decide to call it quits. You have already wasted two by not going NC. You don't have that much time left. The fatal mistake a lot of women make is thinking that because the husband chose to stay, he isn't going anywhere. Because of this, they do exactly what you are doing right now, which is taking forever to end things with the AP and holding to your affair. Now if you have a truly understanding husband, he may stick around while you detox from your AP. Those husbands are rare. Most either leave or have affairs of their own to help with their ego. Why am I telling you all of this? If what you want to do is save your marriage, you are going to have to start acting like it. By and read books, get into counseling, be honest with your husband, and most importantly be consitent. If you don't think that you can do these things, the end it now with your husband. I hate reading stories like yours. Husband does everything right and yet it's still not enough.

 

I don't know your background but if you've been betrayed, I can see how this would be hard to read.

 

I've done so much work already, through IC, reading every book on marriage and affairs I can get my hands on, my church. I feel like that is what helped me get to the point I am today - officially and finally saying goodbye.

 

I wasn't strong enough to pull the plug on D Day, but I am now. I am going to do everything in my power to do the best I can. I will have to accept whatever consequences come my way from this day forward.

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I'm sorry, regarding the "blood connection" - I was saying there is no "bad blood" between me and AP, meaning that we aren't angry with each other, neither one of us hurt the other. If I had a reason to be angry with him, it would make ending this easier.

 

I know it would be easy for me to get back in touch with him, but I simply can't. I've known for a long time what needed to happen. I just had difficulty pulling the trigger.

 

I'll prepare myself legally if I need to, but as of now, all my eggs are in the marriage basket.

 

Thank you for clarifying that.

 

I think you really plan on fixing your marriage you need to come clean about everything and that means the most recent contact you have had.

 

Clay

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Hi, my story is very similar to yours. Dday, confusion, heartbreak, decisions...it's awful. It's been 10 months since my dday and I've chosen to give 100% to my marriage at least for a year. I have a time allotted that I worked out with my therapist. So far everything is ok.

 

I will tell you this though.....I truly did not start really feeling over it until I came clean and told two of my friends. I truly think that holding onto this secret was killing me. I feel I freed myself, and because they know me and him, they totally understood. But they know my H also and they are giving me great advice and helping me through some crappy days.

 

If you want to give your marriage a shot you need to truly let go of mm.its the only way to clear your head. And btw, after my dday I also still was reaching out to mm for awhile. Having an affair is like being on drugs, the only way is to stay away from them. Give yourself time to heal from this...

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Southern Sun
Hi, my story is very similar to yours. Dday, confusion, heartbreak, decisions...it's awful. It's been 10 months since my dday and I've chosen to give 100% to my marriage at least for a year. I have a time allotted that I worked out with my therapist. So far everything is ok.

 

I will tell you this though.....I truly did not start really feeling over it until I came clean and told two of my friends. I truly think that holding onto this secret was killing me. I feel I freed myself, and because they know me and him, they totally understood. But they know my H also and they are giving me great advice and helping me through some crappy days.

 

If you want to give your marriage a shot you need to truly let go of mm.its the only way to clear your head. And btw, after my dday I also still was reaching out to mm for awhile. Having an affair is like being on drugs, the only way is to stay away from them. Give yourself time to heal from this...

 

How long have you been NC now?

 

Also, do you mind if I ask - do you have kids? Was your marriage generally good before the A?

 

My IC compared this to an addiction. I never wanted to admit that, but I think it's true. I know that there are many people who have broken free from their drug of choice, even with a relapse. I'm not ready to give up on me yet and say just because I didn't immediately go NC, I must be incapable of righting my marriage.

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I don't know your background but if you've been betrayed, I can see how this would be hard to read.

 

I've done so much work already, through IC, reading every book on marriage and affairs I can get my hands on, my church. I feel like that is what helped me get to the point I am today - officially and finally saying goodbye.

 

I wasn't strong enough to pull the plug on D Day, but I am now. I am going to do everything in my power to do the best I can. I will have to accept whatever consequences come my way from this day forward.

 

Serious question - how many of those books, pastors and counsellors encouraged you to not only maintain contact with your AP, but also lie to your husband about it? How is that conducive to reconciliation? How does that set you on an honest and honourable path

 

The truth is, the affair is still ongoing at least it was as recent as yesterday.

 

Add to that, you are not remorseful. When you are, you would not look on your AP and the relationship with fondness. In not trying to be mean, I'm a WW myself... But you are not sorry one bit....reconciliation won't work without remorse.

 

Serious question. Before the affair, when you had a good marriage to a good man and a great father, what would it have done to you to learn your husband was in love with another woman? Are you able to put yourself in his shoes? Because I haven't seen any of that in your posts... It's all about you and MM.

Good luck - and I mean that sincerely. You have a very long road ahead of you.

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Southern Sun
I know too many couples that stay for the kids, try to do the right thing. Are miserable becsuse they are not being true to themselves. They stay and go thru the motions. No you dont need this man to make you happy but the point is you are in love with him. HE makes you happy., you have to be honest with yourself. Im saying try, but if you dont have those feelings for your husband anymore, after a while, you have to make a decision. I hope you will make one that is honest. Your AP is probably hurting just as much as you., I would give yourself a timeframe. You'll know when the time comes.

 

Thank you. I believe these very intense emotions are destined to come...and then go. They don't come to stay. That is why I am trying to stop this and think with my head. I already regret enough. I most definitely do not want to just 'stay for the kids' or hang on to a marriage that is dying. But I believe my marriage is worth saving...I KNOW it is worth giving it a true and honest effort.

 

Another thing you said is that this other man makes me happy. Yes, there were very happy times, but man, he has also been associated with a lot of misery. I am just really trying not to see this through rose-colored glasses any more.

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Southern Sun
Serious question - how many of those books, pastors and counsellors encouraged you to not only maintain contact with your AP, but also lie to your husband about it? How is that conducive to reconciliation? How does that set you on an honest and honourable path

 

NONE of my sources of help have encouraged ongoing contact with the AP. I have purposely sought out books that are pro-marriage. My church absolutely advised to never communicate with him again. I just felt too weak to make it happen. I've been summoning the strength since D Day and I finally am there.

 

The truth is, the affair is still ongoing at least it was as recent as yesterday.

This is true, I guess to the extent that we still had some contact. But there has to be a moment when it's over. That's where I am now.

 

Add to that, you are not remorseful. When you are, you would not look on your AP and the relationship with fondness. In not trying to be mean, I'm a WW myself... But you are not sorry one bit....reconciliation won't work without remorse.

 

As a WW, what do you feel brought you to the point of true remorse? I know I feel deep regret for doing this to begin with, for hurting my husband and family. When does it become remorse?

 

Serious question. Before the affair, when you had a good marriage to a good man and a great father, what would it have done to you to learn your husband was in love with another woman? Are you able to put yourself in his shoes? Because I haven't seen any of that in your posts... It's all about you and MM.

Good luck - and I mean that sincerely. You have a very long road ahead of you.

 

I'm sure it would have cut to the bone to know this. I just don't believe I fully grasp the pain of it, since I have emotionally invested myself elsewhere for so long.

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So now what???

 

 

You know you have to tell your H about the ongoing contact, right? You do.

 

 

Me? My marriage is dysfunctional and affair ongoing. I'm not remorseful at this point, I guess... but my DDay will see me walk away finally from my marriage if it ever comes. Doesn't mean I can't call this how I see it.

 

 

You though, you say you want to save your marriage? Well that starts with coming clean and no more lying. What is remorse? I'm not sure what it is, but I know what its NOT. Its not lying, cheating, minimising, continuing the affair, looking back fondly on your affair partner and your 'love'. Its not ignoring your husbands pain and focusing on your own. And its certainly not continuing contact knowing how much pain you've caused your husband. You put yourself and OM above his healing. That's pretty selfish don't you think? Nowhere near remorseful

 

 

Most truly remorseful WW I've seen here are disgusted. With themselves, with AP, and every little thing they did in the affair. Love? Nope. There are no feelings of love. At least not for AP

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Southern Sun
So now what???

 

 

You know you have to tell your H about the ongoing contact, right? You do.

 

 

Me? My marriage is dysfunctional and affair ongoing. I'm not remorseful at this point, I guess... but my DDay will see me walk away finally from my marriage if it ever comes. Doesn't mean I can't call this how I see it.

 

 

You though, you say you want to save your marriage? Well that starts with coming clean and no more lying. What is remorse? I'm not sure what it is, but I know what its NOT. Its not lying, cheating, minimising, continuing the affair, looking back fondly on your affair partner and your 'love'. Its not ignoring your husbands pain and focusing on your own. And its certainly not continuing contact knowing how much pain you've caused your husband. You put yourself and OM above his healing. That's pretty selfish don't you think? Nowhere near remorseful

 

 

Most truly remorseful WW I've seen here are disgusted. With themselves, with AP, and every little thing they did in the affair. Love? Nope. There are no feelings of love. At least not for AP

 

I don't really know how to address your questions. We officially said goodbye today. I know where my heart should be, but at this moment it feels like it's breaking...not just for AP, but the pain my husband feels, the loss of innocence. This is the lowest I've ever felt in my life.

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How long have you been NC now?

 

Also, do you mind if I ask - do you have kids? Was your marriage generally good before the A?

 

My IC compared this to an addiction. I never wanted to admit that, but I think it's true. I know that there are many people who have broken free from their drug of choice, even with a relapse. I'm not ready to give up on me yet and say just because I didn't immediately go NC, I must be incapable of righting my marriage.

 

Ihave 3 kids and my marriage was good before but I wasn't satisfied.

 

Yes my ic said its an addiction also. It is true.i didn't immediately go nc, I just couldn't. It doesn't make you a weak person, it makes you human. You are capable of fixing it in time. Mm will leave your system. It takes a lot of time and it hurts but I keep really busy. You can pm me anytime

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