Few years ago

[Eagle's-bargain]

I haven't the slightest clue on how to start this thread. Seems like I'm stuck on this page for a while with only one sentence.

 

I have felt this unending pain in my chest.

My stomach does back-flips, tensing up all the while.

All it takes is just a few threads here on infidelity or here (The Other Man / Woman).

I read all the damage done. I think my own. I see the pain of another man or woman.

I feel like both sides of the coin.

 

I do regret that I hurt people and said mean things. No, I wasn't a cheater to a BS, but I did cheat. I cheated my morals and integrity. Since that day I have been struggling with enjoying life when I'm alone with myself, or after a few beers.

 

Red Forman once said, "I have two stages: anger and drinking." The drinking, a constant part of me, is the same, but the anger is just shame.

Unrelenting shame.

Why should I forgive myself when I believe how I felt was right?

 

I had an affair with an OM's wife. I was friends with her before she married him.

We are having an emotional affair, we both knew it and it was hurting her then boyfriend.

I tried to apologize but he refused to meet me.

We broke off contact before she married him.

 

Then a few months after she married him.

She contacted me, she said "You know where I am."

This was after we made eye contact - accidental run in - while doing errands.

I rushed over to a quiet place few travel.

I thought she had decided on me.

That's when I found out she was married.

Everything was a mistake, or so she told me.

 

It went down-hill from there. But not before the emotions and PA happened.

I said ugly things. And I did the ugliest thing a human being can do: made someone want to kill themselves.

Maybe that was already there with her?

But because I was greedy, I hurt the BS so bad, he probably questioned his life.

This is worse than killing, as another does all the work.

 

But I didn't stop. I felt what I was doing was right, because she chose me.

She said things that one doesn't easily take back.

I ended up in the lurch, even though she still wanted to be friends in the end.

"It really sucks that there is no 'half way'..." She said, still with her BH.

I couldn't have it half way, and there was NC for about three years.

 

As the years went by I couldn't help but think about this woman.

I knew her before she was married, and indirectly introduced her to her husband.

Before they married she said things like, "I wish I could have both of you." the BH for the sex and romance, and me for general companionship/everything else.

 

Things got ugly, like they do when people can't decide, or when shame and fear.

God only knows I suppose.

I find at the end of the day, I can't and won't excuse my behavior.

I don't regret loving this strange woman, but I regret hurting people in the process.

 

I know it sounds horrible.

But I believe she thinks she made the "right choice" because she had made a decision,

and decide to stick with it, even though we had a PA no less than few months after her marriage. She decided to stay. Mostly due to self preservation, her own words, to achieve her goals in life. She didn't see a life with me, so she said. That's fine. I accept that, I suppose, since I had no other choice. I wasn't wrong when I told her she's just using her BS as a shield and her reconciliation changes actually nothing, but it wasn't my business. I knew that nothing was really solved, if anything we had an EA and PA, and damage between us was done.

So she moved on to someone who loves her.

I joking heard from a friend that a her BS and her are in love with the same woman: her.

 

I told her one day she'll find someone better than him and I, if she just spent more time working on herself. I told her that it was wrong for her to continue hurting/leading on her BS thinking things would improve and get better-- maybe they do, but not after dehumanizing things are said voluntarily. Worse she told me things that I wanted to hear and believe, and I did believe them. That she needed me in her life. Only after all the damage and shame did she look at our relationship as an acceptable loss.

 

As for her relationship with her H, and how she treated him?

I suppose some people don't mind treating their spouse like a pet, but then again who am I to judge? Even now, I feel like an angry matador against a young bull or calf. The shame never leaves.

 

I am ashamed I hurt people, but again, I'm not ashamed I loved.

It is regrettable there isn't a death penalty for people like me, the stain on the soul and heart, I've been marked like Cain.

 

But I am sorry for the long rant, the years of the shame of living as a man - or what was one - who believed I was in love with a woman

who also believed and told me she made the wrong choice (therefore coming to me).

 

I just don't know if it gets better. I've heard it does.

After betrayal, pain, and trust being broken.

I don't know if it is worth it to try for anything, especially after I've caused damage.

I hurt someone I used to know, the BS, and someone who until the EA was my best friend (I never saw her as anything else).

Then some words were said to me, or she/we/I did something (not sex), and it was one slip that one does not recover from.

 

Does it ever go away?

I've heard it doesn't, we just learn to live with it.

It's worse that it's part of my life, as I'm showing students films about Nathaniel Hawthorne, and the Scarlet Letter is up there.

It's such a horrible feeling to see films like that or read something about these relationships.

 

My stomach still does backflips, and I feel the shame all over again.

Moving on seems so immoral without paying a price.

I can forgive her, the resolve to overcome a that was failed marriage (her words) but failing the challenge.

But I can't forgive myself. I know her path is hers, and her's alone.

This I told her. Yet for me? I do not know.

I have been lost when I'm alone with my thoughts and I wonder,

does it really get better or do I just accept my lot in life?

Edited February 20, 2015 by Eagle's-bargain

[Ruffian1]

But I didn't stop. I felt what I was doing was right, because she chose me.

She said things that one doesn't easily take back.

I ended up in the lurch, even though she still wanted to be friends in the end.

"It really sucks that there is no 'half way'..." She said, still with her BH.

I couldn't have it half way, and there was NC for about three years."

 

But she did not chose you. She chose to eat cake. And her BS paid the biggest cost.

And you damaged yourself.

Why do you have shame now when you previously felt “what I was doing way right, because she chose me”?

If she had left BS and chose you, would you feel differently about this situation?

[anika99]

"I wish I could have both of you." the BH for the sex and romance, and me for general companionship/everything else.

 

 

The above sentence stands out because it's so unusual for the MW to view the OM and BH this way. Usually it's the betrayed spouse who gives the cheater companionship/everything else and the affair partner provides the sex and romance. Since the person giving her sex and romance was also her husband it's no surprise that she didn't leave him for you.

 

 

You will start to feel better when you choose to feel better. How long ago did this affair end? If it's recent than I can understand the raw pain and heartbreak in your post but your thread is titled "a few years ago" which gave me the impression that this all happened a few years ago. If this was years ago and you still feel this way then you are encouraging and nurturing these feelings by building the affair up into this huge romantic tragedy in your memories rather than seeing the affair and the MW for what it really was. You are choosing to wallow in your sad fantasy rather than face reality and this is prolonging your pain.

 

 

You mentioned more than once in your post how wrong it was for your MW to use her husband, you tried to make her see that, yet you can't see that she was using you every bit as much as she was using her husband. You still view her as the helpless princess who just needed to get the courage to be with her knight in shining armor (you) but unfortunately she was held captive by her husband (who is giving her lots of love, sex and romance) and cannot leave her marriage.

 

 

Remember that she said this: "I wish I could have both of you." the BH for the sex and romance, and me for general companionship/everything else." That sentence really tells you everything about her and how she viewed the affair. She was never torn, she was never going to choose you. She wanted you both. She loved getting attention and friendship from and sex and romance from her husband. She was a selfish woman who was enjoying all the benefits of the affair and the marriage. She using you both to meet all of her needs and she didn't care that she was hurting people because it was always all about her.

 

 

I think when you start to see this woman for who she really is and realize that she had no problem devastating people for her own selfish gain you will start to recover.

[Eagle's-bargain]

But she did not chose you. She chose to eat cake. And her BS paid the biggest cost.

And you damaged yourself.

Why do you have shame now when you previously felt “what I was doing way right, because she chose me”?

If she had left BS and chose you, would you feel differently about this situation?

 

The biggest challenge of that was whenever or not the MW would have fully committed. Even I knew during the EA and PA that she had a lot of work to do on herself first. And that I would be there still should she want me there. I always made it clear that leaving her BS would be an uphill battle and might cost a lot emotionally, possibly financially (though there were none for them, young and early marriage).

 

I always had my hand out, but the MW would have had to take it on her own. I was worried that if she did stick with me, would she betray me like her H? Possibly. If she chose me, I still would have felt the shame of hurting the BS, by facilitating the MW's betrayal. That feeling wouldn't haven't left me. But I would have trusted the relationship before the PA and before she was a MW. We were very close and constantly challenging each other emotionally to grow with ourselves.

 

I have shame because I put myself because I felt for her, and still do, in a position where I would possibly hurt the feeling of the BS. I do recall telling her that if she wanted to "ride two horses at once" she "shouldn't leave the circus". This horse left, and not without some unkind words, which I regret. A lot of damage.

 

I couldn't have a relationship that had cloak and dagger elements, so yes the shame would have been there either way. But I suppose the test was whether or not it was worth it. For me it was, but I ended up feeling like a politician who voted to send people to fight in Korea. I don't know if I should forget it, or remember. All I know is I feel tainted because of this, and it has affected how I have tried to love other women. It has made me wonder if commitment really means anything. I have never cheated on anyone, I was close once, but I didn't. I still feel guilty about almost cheating once.

 

But being the OM was different, everything I did was without reservations, mostly that is. I had open hands, and an open heart. However, she was married, even if it was to a "shallow" man. Her own words. How else can I explain it?

 

I'm just not sure if people like me should even exist anymore.

[Eagle's-bargain]

"I wish I could have both of you." the BH for the sex and romance, and me for general companionship/everything else.

 

 

The above sentence stands out because it's so unusual for the MW to view the OM and BH this way. Usually it's the betrayed spouse who gives the cheater companionship/everything else and the affair partner provides the sex and romance. Since the person giving her sex and romance was also her husband it's no surprise that she didn't leave him for you.

 

She came back to me because she wasn't getting other things too. We also had a PA while together, but when she tried to work with her H and started sleeping with him again I stopped touching her. I felt like she was using me, and I told her.

 

 

You will start to feel better when you choose to feel better.

I have no doubt about that. But feeling better over what? I did something wrong, it's not something one can say, "This is just life and an acceptable loss." At some point a person does something wrong, and they cannot take it back. I believed I was doing the right thing for my heart because she came back to me after a 5-6 NC period.

 

How long ago did this affair end?

3 years give or take a few months.

 

If this was years ago and you still feel this way then you are encouraging and nurturing these feelings by building the affair up into this huge romantic tragedy in your memories rather than seeing the affair and the MW for what it really was. You are choosing to wallow in your sad fantasy rather than face reality and this is prolonging your pain.

 

Sad fantasy?

When you have NO model for hope

It's hard to give a damn

Living "just because" or when someone says, "I need you" is just bologna.

 

What you say sounds a lot like what she said:

 

"It's just that I'm the main priority and I won't sacrifice myself and my needs for someone else"

 

"I think my husband will still fit my needs in 10 years... and

in 50 years... this is why I married him of course I could be wrong but there is no way to know that now. I only get to act and make decisions with what I have in the present moment."

 

And so on.

 

You mentioned more than once in your post how wrong it was for your MW to use her husband, you tried to make her see that, yet you can't see that she was using you every bit as much as she was using her husband.

 

Yes I pointed that out to her relentless. I even told her to break all contact with both of us and to move on with herself for personal growth.

 

You still view her as the helpless princess who just needed to get the courage to be with her knight in shining armor (you) but unfortunately she was held captive by her husband (who is giving her lots of love, sex and romance) and cannot leave her marriage.

I will not deny that I did not want to help and save my friend. However, I would never do the work for anyone else in a relationship on those things. I have lost more recent relationships because I have flat out said that I will support a person through their trial, but their trial is theirs alone. I can support and lend a hand, but I won't be a vanguard for such.

 

 

 

Remember that she said this: "I wish I could have both of you." the BH for the sex and romance, and me for general companionship/everything else." That sentence really tells you everything about her and how she viewed the affair. She was never torn, she was never going to choose you. She wanted you both.

 

I agree. She wanted us both. At one point, I even reminded her of this, that she told me she would just have her BS live in the closet and take him out for sex, and put him back when she's done. I was disgusted when I heard this and I voice my opinion. Often. In my opinion she was torn, early on she told many people she was having an affair and debating that her relationship with her BS was a mistake. I believed she was going to move on.

 

I believe the challenge was she thought I would fight for her. This isn't Twilight. I fight for no one, who puts themselves in these situations. And a person who strikes hard against another only to immediately yield will not go unpunished. I was not fair, or kind towards the end. But then again I believe that was when I felt, as you said, she was using me.

 

She loved getting attention and friendship from and sex and romance from her husband. She was a selfish woman who was enjoying all the benefits of the affair and the marriage. She using you both to meet all of her needs and she didn't care that she was hurting people because it was always all about her.

Part of me can agree with that and part of me does not. Even after it all she asked me if we could at the very least still be friends. I was her best friend, she said that to me over the many years I knew her before the EA, and before the PA. I never thought of her as anything less than an equal, or happened to like girly things. I never thought of her as a sexual object then or sexually. Only a friend and companion, which to me meant much more than the sex.

 

 

I think when you start to see this woman for who she really is and realize that she had no problem devastating people for her own selfish gain you will start to recover.

 

Yes I know she might have used me, and probably did use me to get out her rut in her own marriage. That's why she broke NC. I did miss her during that time. I had lost more than an AP, that didn't matter. I lost my friend in such a morally repugnant way. I can't even calculate the loss. But it takes two to tango.

 

I will not know, but I have struggled for a long time keeping these feelings inside, wondering if there was someone to talk to, or if demonization of her and the situation was my only way out.

 

My motto to her in the end was that an eagle does not bargain with a sparrow. She had more to lose that I. I had nothing other than my integrity, and personal value with myself and close friends. My own value system was compromised. It's not something you can just turn off and say, "C'est la vie." I wasn't given an opportunity to affirm responsibility over my own shortcomings, because there was no way to profess these things, even to myself. And what would it really change?

 

I would just be doing what she was doing to me: "It's just that I'm the main priority and I won't sacrifice myself and my needs for someone else"

 

I know I make my sacrifice. I don't get to have that back.

I'm just wondering if going or not going anywhere is the answer or if the answers matter less than the question. It is not black and white for me as you can see. As much- as much as I wish it were.

 

The reason, part of the reason I finally caved after sometime from posting here was that I found out through a 3rd, 4th party that she moved the the location I'm currently in. She moved 10 time zones, and now lives within approx 40 miles of me. While that sounds like much, it basically means I should never go to or near her area. I have made that a point for NC.

 

More importantly. There is no trust now. There is no relationship, NC.

I know that there wasn't a real relationship. Just contact beyond what we had, and complications.

I don't know if time changes anyone. And yes I am curious, but I'm no fool - not yet at least. I moved physically on with my life, and further than I imagined years and years ago. But now she's in my time zone and in my State. This makes things difficult for me when part of me left to get far away.

Edited February 20, 2015 by Eagle's-bargain

[Ruffian1]

So finding out she is not so far away has "triggered" you. Understandable.

 

 

But nothing has changed. Other than physical distance. She still married to her Chump she takes out of the closet now and then (that's awful to say about your spouse btw)?

 

 

Just stay NC.

 

 

The memories and feelings will fade.

[anika99]

"It's just that I'm the main priority and I won't sacrifice myself and my needs for someone else"

 

"I think my husband will still fit my needs in 10 years... and

in 50 years... this is why I married him of course I could be wrong but there is no way to know that now. I only get to act and make decisions with what I have in the present moment."

 

 

At one point, I even reminded her of this, that she told me she would just have her BS live in the closet and take him out for sex, and put him back when she's done

 

 

This woman just sounds like a truly awful human being. A real narcissistic personality. All I can say is stay far away from her and stop romanticizing the relationship you had with her. She is a user of people and as your friend said both her and her BS (and you too apparently) are madly in love with her. She loves herself and she doesn't sound capable of really feeling deep love for another. She doesn't even try to hide that, I'm amazed that you even found her attractive after all of the horrible things she has said to you. Be glad this woman can no longer suck you dry like an emotional vampire.

[Majormisstep]

Be thankful this hot mess did not choose you.

 

You would have learned new gut-wrenching emotions such as uncertainty, fear, worry, distrust, weight loss, weight gain and whatever else a BS may go through wondering what their WS is up to.

 

Yep, you mucked up (as many of us do) so do something right by it. Volunteer at a homeless shelter or become a Big Brother. Beating yourself up serves little purpose. You were a willing pawn in her game. Hopefully one day her H gets wind of extra-curricular activities and tosses her to the curb.

[Eagle's-bargain]

Thank you all for your time and words.

It has helped me. There is no doubt in my mind that there are always things that sets people off a little bit or unnerves a person even when no contact has been made. A smell, a song, a place, or even a phrase, can pull a person back into memories that are unpleasant.

 

So finding out she is not so far away has "triggered" you. Understandable.

 

 

But nothing has changed. Other than physical distance. She still married to her Chump she takes out of the closet now and then (that's awful to say about your spouse btw)?

 

Just stay NC.

 

The memories and feelings will fade.

I hope the memories does not fade lest I find myself in a similar position again. As for the feelings. I hope so. More or less they go away. I haven't found a way to do this without dehumanizing everyone else.

 

This woman just sounds like a truly awful human being. A real narcissistic personality. All I can say is stay far away from her and stop romanticizing the relationship you had with her. She is a user of people and as your friend said both her and her BS (and you too apparently) are madly in love with her. She loves herself and she doesn't sound capable of really feeling deep love for another. She doesn't even try to hide that, I'm amazed that you even found her attractive after all of the horrible things she has said to you. Be glad this woman can no longer suck you dry like an emotional vampire.

 

@Anika99

I'm not sure if your caustic way of speaking is from something that happened or if this behavior truly sickens you, including my own. More importantly, your harsh words did make me laugh if not smile even. It is sound advice and it's true that I at times, miss my friend. I do realize there was a point where this woman was no longer my friend, and I was being used. She said it, as she said and did many things (a great portion of which I will not bother everyone with). Without rambling thanks. Sometimes I forget, like some do, that cruelty is done out of self-preservation or full on greed. At the time, and even now I didn't feel like I had a moral authority to speak out against it, since I was the OM.

 

As time goes by I gauge my behavior after that up until now I can see why it makes sense to view her as a vampire.

 

Don't get me wrong, I did date and had an LTR (1+ after the A). But it did make me a little scared in terms of commitment.

 

Be thankful this hot mess did not choose you.

 

You would have learned new gut-wrenching emotions such as uncertainty, fear, worry, distrust, weight loss, weight gain and whatever else a BS may go through wondering what their WS is up to.

 

Yep, you mucked up (as many of us do) so do something right by it. Volunteer at a homeless shelter or become a Big Brother. Beating yourself up serves little purpose. You were a willing pawn in her game. Hopefully one day her H gets wind of extra-curricular activities and tosses her to the curb.

 

I did actually volunteer for about 3-4.5 months at a hospital, after about 200 hours or so I stopped, and started participating more within my religion.

 

At some point she did tell him about the A. And he basically blames me for manipulating her. I don't think she told him things like how shallow his problems are, and how convenient that is for her.

 

It's his problem now, not mine.

There are other people in my life now who've invested, and I'm trying to remind myself that. Often I remind myself by investing back, it feels good, even though I am learning to care about other people because I want to care. And not because I "have to care."

 

What did I learn from my A?

Well, reading some poignant opinions here over the years (about 2 or so?) including all the ones with a dose of vitriol (bid cf), I have learned to laugh at myself for thinking I could have a viable relationship. Like most OM or OW I'm sure at some point a great portion of us stopped fooling ourselves and moved on. Yet feelings do take time to go away, and while I've been accused of nurturing my feelings, I don't deny that I do want to truly move on and give someone a fair chance (without my baggage).