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The narcissist can feel it


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I know I have read this several times on here. But as the OW the A with a MM I think that the more I know the easier it gets to detach from him.

 

I have been reading about narcissists and their tendencies... My MM was the ultimate narcissist.

 

Do you think most A are pursued by an individual that is a narcissist? I'm pretty sure I totally fed into it and was gas-lighted throughout my whole 2 year affair.

 

But whats the likelihood that those of us who still have feelings for these MM are subjects of Narcissistic abuse. I am not saying that I don't own my part in this... Gezzzz...

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I know I have read this several times on here. But as the OW the A with a MM I think that the more I know the easier it gets to detach from him.

 

I have been reading about narcissists and their tendencies... My MM was the ultimate narcissist.

 

Do you think most A are pursued by an individual that is a narcissist? I'm pretty sure I totally fed into it and was gas-lighted throughout my whole 2 year affair.

 

But whats the likelihood that those of us who still have feelings for these MM are subjects of Narcissistic abuse. I am not saying that I don't own my part in this... Gezzzz...

 

I would hate to generalize, however on the topic of infidelities and cheaters I would gladly assume they fall somewhere on the spectrum.

 

Many experts would agree:

 

What Is the Connection Between Narcissism and Cheating?

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I researched narcissistic personality during my A. Ive never even heard of it until then. It fits my xap to a T!!!! I could write a book about it now.

 

What really got me was , the harder the target, the more satisfying it is for their ego boost. Me, being his "friends" wife, probably blew up his ego!

 

Now I know, I was viewed as just a mere object, along with everyone else in his life. We all play a roll in it. He doesnt view us as human, just pawns in his game.

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Gloria_Smellons

Hmmm, tough one.

 

I'm not sure where selfishness ends and narcissism begins so I'm not sure I could define MM as a narcissist.

 

Is he selfish? Absolutely.

 

Does he empathise/understand the potential consequences of his actions? That I can't answer. I can't decide if he just doesn't care or if he's so good at compartmentalising he doesn't even think about it. I believe the thought of him being discovered hasn't even crossed his mind as he thinks it so unlikely.

 

Truth is I don't know him well enough to say either way, I only get to see the parts of him he wants me to see, so I find it hard to make any kind of accurate judgements about his character on the whole.

 

I did date someone previously who I have no doubt was a narcissist, it was a truly awful time. However, I was too close to it at the time to see it. It wasn't until I was out of that situation that I began to realise how badly I was treated. Perhaps the same is also true with MM. Maybe I won't ever really realise what went on until it's all over.

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I would hate to generalize, however on the topic of infidelities and cheaters I would gladly assume they fall somewhere on the spectrum.

 

Many experts would agree:

 

What Is the Connection Between Narcissism and Cheating?

 

This is a great article and it fits my mm perfectly. When my husband found out and our affair ended 8 months ago, he still blames my husband because he feels that he " interrupted " us. He doesn't feel any guilt and he has always had a sense of entitlement.... I think the fact that we were all friends for years was a huge challenge for him...what a jerk!

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True Narcissism is something that must be diagnosed by a physician. If you believe your MM was a Narcissist you may, but that does not make it true. Narcissism is actually quite rare.

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Everyone who enters into an affair has narcissistic tendencies, I don't care if you're the MM, the OW, the single OW, it doesn't matter. Every one of us does to some degree.

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My xMM - definitely not narcisistic. My ex-husband - definitely. Narcissists will degrade a relationship to the point that their spouse not only shuns them, but is probably thinking of ways to kill them without getting caught (just a joke, for those who will take that literally). And these guys love to cheat on their spouses as pay-back. But they typically make sure their spouse knows about it.

 

A good rule of thumb is if a person has you looking up personality disorders, it's probably doomed.

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True Narcissism is something that must be diagnosed by a physician. If you believe your MM was a Narcissist you may, but that does not make it true. Narcissism is actually quite rare.

 

I think people confuse narcissism with sociopaths. Sociopaths are far more common. A major difference is narcissist focus only on themselves "me, me, me, I'm so great" sociopaths commonly rain compliments and praise on other. They tend to be like water and that the shape of whatever holds it. IE, he or she will become whatever you need them to be. Sociopaths are more aware of others and how others view them, while narcissist don't, making them push the believability. Stories are bigger, lies are bigger and always has to one up. Sociopaths understand empathy, they still don't really care but they can play the role.

 

Most of the MM I hear talked about here are sociopaths, which is why they can make OW believe so deepy that they care. Narcissist don't give a $hit, you only there for their use, once your of no use they will drop you without thought. Sociopaths will often try to maintain a relationship.

 

I agree 100% that most involved in affairs show signs of one or the other, more likely not narcissist.

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I believe at least 10% of the population is personality disordered. And the likelihood of you associating with one, whether at work, or with friends or family, in your life, is high.

 

What I have learned is that narcissists, borderlines and sociopaths are all manipulative. But the difference is that narcissists and borderlines care what other people think. They manipulate and play games, with the reaction of others in mind. They are entertained by the drama they cause. But sociopaths do not care what others think. They are predatory, and do not give a eff about what others think about it. They are not motivated by pain, entitlement or feelings of abandonment. They just have a hunger to ruin and destroy.

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I believe at least 10% of the population is personality disordered. And the likelihood of you associating with one, whether at work, or with friends or family, in your life, is high.

 

What I have learned is that narcissists, borderlines and sociopaths are all manipulative. But the difference is that narcissists and borderlines care what other people think. They manipulate and play games, with the reaction of others in mind. They are entertained by the drama they cause. But sociopaths do not care what others think. They are predatory, and do not give a eff about what others think about it. They are not motivated by pain, entitlement or feelings of abandonment. They just have a hunger to ruin and destroy.

Yeap, sociopaths like to play with people for their own enjoyment. Narcissists need people to think they're great to stroke that fragile ego.

 

Sociopaths leave ya thinking "Wtf was that about", "why would they say or do that". Their actions don't make sense.

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I think people confuse narcissism with sociopaths. Sociopaths are far more common. A major difference is narcissist focus only on themselves "me, me, me, I'm so great" sociopaths commonly rain compliments and praise on other. They tend to be like water and that the shape of whatever holds it. IE, he or she will become whatever you need them to be. Sociopaths are more aware of others and how others view them, while narcissist don't, making them push the believability. Stories are bigger, lies are bigger and always has to one up. Sociopaths understand empathy, they still don't really care but they can play the role.

 

Most of the MM I hear talked about here are sociopaths, which is why they can make OW believe so deepy that they care. Narcissist don't give a $hit, you only there for their use, once your of no use they will drop you without thought. Sociopaths will often try to maintain a relationship.

 

I agree 100% that most involved in affairs show signs of one or the other, more likely not narcissist.

 

So I am either a narcissist or a sociopath? Every person who has ever had an affair is a narcissist or a sociopath? And you know this because you got your degree in Psychiatry from where?

 

Is your wife a narcissist or a sociopath? Have you had her properly diagnosed by a psychiatrist? Is she in counseling for one of these disorders? If not, how do you know it won't happen again?

 

The generalizations thrown around on here by people who have a WS are incredible. There is no single reason why affairs happen. If someone analyzed why and how they happened, I am sure there would be at least 10 reasons, but most likely hundreds. But in a BS mind, the reason why their WS had an affair is mental illness. No other reason than that. There was never ever a problem in the relationship, everything was rainbows and puppy dogs, but their spouse still cheated. I do not see things nearly so black and white and maybe that is because I am the cheater. There seem to be a lot of BS on here ready to crucify any WS they can find. They need to take out their anger someplace and this is a veritable stomping ground of cheaters to pounce on.

 

I know I too will be crucified for posting this. I am not claiming that cheaters are saints (obviously we are not), but neither are we all villains, heathens, people without conscious, or people with mental disorders or some other major character flaws. Oh and my other favorite, we are cheaters so obviously we are ALL going to be serial cheaters and do this again and again so we can NEVER be trusted. I love that one.

 

DKT3, I certainly hope that you don't think any of those things about your wife. We cannot possibly all be terrible, vile human beings. I know the attacks will not end. If a cheater posts, there will be good advice, bad advice and attacks on their character. Cheaters beware!

 

Possibly, just possibly, affairs happen because the relationship/marriage is ill, it is a symptom of a troubled relationship, not due to some mental disorder the WS has. Affairs do not occur in a vacuum.

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So I am either a narcissist or a sociopath? Every person who has ever had an affair is a narcissist or a sociopath? And you know this because you got your degree in Psychiatry from where?

 

I'm not sure what DKT was trying to say, all I was alluding to in my post was the fact that most people who have affairs have narcissistic tendencies. As previously stated, NPD is very rare and it is a long shot in your life you will ever meet anyone with the actual personality disorder. It is true however that the majority of people in the world actually have tendencies of most personality disorders. It does not necessarily make you an actual narcissist, a borderline, a sociopath, etc. Just wanted to clarify that. Unfortunately, I do have an advanced degree in psychology and it still couldn't stop me from having an affair :lmao:

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So I am either a narcissist or a sociopath? Every person who has ever had an affair is a narcissist or a sociopath? And you know this because you got your degree in Psychiatry from where?

 

Is your wife a narcissist or a sociopath? Have you had her properly diagnosed by a psychiatrist? Is she in counseling for one of these disorders? If not, how do you know it won't happen again?

 

The generalizations thrown around on here by people who have a WS are incredible. There is no single reason why affairs happen. If someone analyzed why and how they happened, I am sure there would be at least 10 reasons, but most likely hundreds. But in a BS mind, the reason why their WS had an affair is mental illness. No other reason than that. There was never ever a problem in the relationship, everything was rainbows and puppy dogs, but their spouse still cheated. I do not see things nearly so black and white and maybe that is because I am the cheater. There seem to be a lot of BS on here ready to crucify any WS they can find. They need to take out their anger someplace and this is a veritable stomping ground of cheaters to pounce on.

 

I know I too will be crucified for posting this. I am not claiming that cheaters are saints (obviously we are not), but neither are we all villains, heathens, people without conscious, or people with mental disorders or some other major character flaws. Oh and my other favorite, we are cheaters so obviously we are ALL going to be serial cheaters and do this again and again so we can NEVER be trusted. I love that one.

 

DKT3, I certainly hope that you don't think any of those things about your wife. We cannot possibly all be terrible, vile human beings. I know the attacks will not end. If a cheater posts, there will be good advice, bad advice and attacks on their character. Cheaters beware!

 

Possibly, just possibly, affairs happen because the relationship/marriage is ill, it is a symptom of a troubled relationship, not due to some mental disorder the WS has. Affairs do not occur in a vacuum.

I said they show signs, which they do including yourself and yes my wife. If you where to google the two and did a check list type of thing then compare that list to things said and done right here on this site you would find a lot of check marks on that paper.

 

A mistake that people make is thinking those titles mean that a person is all of sudden Ted Bundy (sociopath) or Hitler (narcissist). Not even close, I bet you talked with at least one today. Making that mistake is like saying stealing a stick of gum means you'll murder your mailman. The truth is 1 in 10 people has a disorder. Very few are extreme.

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I'm not sure what DKT was trying to say, all I was alluding to in my post was the fact that most people who have affairs have narcissistic tendencies. As previously stated, NPD is very rare and it is a long shot in your life you will ever meet anyone with the actual personality disorder. It is true however that the majority of people in the world actually have tendencies of most personality disorders. It does not necessarily make you an actual narcissist, a borderline, a sociopath, etc. Just wanted to clarify that. Unfortunately, I do have an advanced degree in psychology and it still couldn't stop me from having an affair :lmao:

 

A long shot yes, but my 16 year old was actually recently diagnosed with Narcissistic Personality Disorder. He was also diagnosed bipolar, with mood and anxiety disorder. Oh yeah and he suffers physical pain everyday from Fibromyalgia. I do believe actual NPD is rare. I find it hard to believe that ALL people in affairs have this or even have these tendencies. I believe DKT3 was saying he felt most cheaters were Sociopaths. Nice.

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The generalizations thrown around on here by people who have a WS are incredible. There is no single reason why affairs happen.

 

Possibly, just possibly, affairs happen because the relationship/marriage is ill, it is a symptom of a troubled relationship, not due to some mental disorder the WS has. Affairs do not occur in a vacuum.

 

I wanted to address these two comments apart from the rest of your post.

 

First, yeah you can pretty much sum up every affair with one sweeping word SELFISH.

 

INFIDELITY is the second leading cause of divorce, meaning a lot of people divorce without having affairs. Healthy people in bad marriages divorce. Others find reasons or justifications to hide the selfish desire to have both a marriage and another person. Affairs are not caused by a bad marriage, its caused by a cowardly person with poor coping skills. All marriages are bad at some point, from what your saying 100% of marriages would have 100% infidelity. They don't, why? Because there are people that cope better then others. There are people who don't think that their happiness or selfish desires should be placed above those who depend on them.

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A long shot yes, but my 16 year old was actually recently diagnosed with Narcissistic Personality Disorder. He was also diagnosed bipolar, with mood and anxiety disorder. Oh yeah and he suffers physical pain everyday from Fibromyalgia. I do believe actual NPD is rare. I find it hard to believe that ALL people in affairs have this or even have these tendencies. I believe DKT3 was saying he felt most cheaters were Sociopaths. Nice.

 

Well, that's why I said a long shot, not an impossibility. As for people in affairs having those tendencies, people in affairs put their needs above the needs of anyone else. They don't care about their significant others, their children, the other betrayed spouses, the other betrayed children. They become self-absorbed in a world of me, me, me. What can I do to help myself out of this pile of crap that I (willingly) stepped into? What can I do to minimize the pitfalls on me? Not everyone in an affair goes to that extreme obviously. I've seen it in varying degrees, some very mild, and some very extreme. But the second you enter into an affair, you DO pick up those tendencies.

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You don't have to be a psychiatrist to recognize when someone exhibits the signs of NPD. Do all cheaters fit into this category? Nope. Is there a higher probability that most have many of the signs of it? Yep. There is still no way to prove it.

 

This is my own thinking on this... but I tend to think that those who do really exhibit MANY of the signs of NPD don't seek help because they don't recognize that their way of thinking and doing things is wrong. They aren't going to go rushing to a psychiatrists office to get diagnosed. Because of this, I believe there are probably far more people in this world who do fit into this category than are documented. That would make it seem so "rare"

 

Speaking from my own situation... I'm pretty sure my ex cheater does exhibit many of the signs of NPD. Does it matter to me if he is diagnosed and being treated for it? Nope. What matters to me is that it suddenly makes sense what he did and why. I have an answer to that question that has been burning in my brain for quite some time now. Why did he cheat? Was it something I did? Nope. He cheated because he wanted to and it had nothing to do with me. Nothing I could have said or done would have changed his ways. He told me by his actions that he had no regard for me or any woman. That includes the women he cheated on me with. Multiple women. The last one was the straw that broke the camel's back so to speak. He's pushed her away and pulled her back so many times it's disgusting to watch. I see him doing to her exactly what he did to me and it suddenly makes perfect sense.

 

OP, I think you want answers to the why's. Why did he cheat on his wife with you? Why did he lie to her, to you? What was the point in it all? Yes, you accept your role in it, but that doesn't mean you don't want to figure out what he hoped to gain in it all or why he acted the way he did.

 

I will say this.. if you truly think he has NPD... you are much better off for not being with him. Eventually you'll stop asking why he did what he did and focus more on yourself. Why did you allow it and what will you do to ensure that it never happens again. That's the more important question... and a hard question to answer all around for people involved in these triangles.

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I believe at least 10% of the population is personality disordered. And the likelihood of you associating with one, whether at work, or with friends or family, in your life, is high.

 

I think the numbers are higher than that. Probably around 30-35%. :laugh:

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DKT3, How fortunate we all are to have your psychological expertise and be in the presence of someone with no human faults. I have sociopathic tendencies or maybe a narcissistic tendencies? I am at the very least a SELFISH human being by nature? You have never been selfish in your relationship with your wife? You have never had any other personal faults in your relationship? You are perfect and without faults? Interesting.....And I am the narcissist?

 

I realize you have never said you are perfect, but you don't know me. You know nothing about me and you and others make these judgements. I assume that those who have so many opinions about others, must themselves have very few character flaws. Having an affair may be selfish, but I spent 20 years of marriage giving and giving. My husband was selfish, consistently. I let it happen. I let him do whatever it was that made him happy (his athletic activities at least 5 days a week) while I raised the kids. He made all the choices that made him happy, I never argued. And now after giving of myself for decades, I did one thing for me. I did not do it to hurt him, I did not do it out of spite, but I did do it for me because I needed something desperately. Ok. I was and I am acting in a selfish way by having this affair. I would end the marriage tomorrow if my son was not so ill, but I must take that into consideration. My husband does not know how to handle any of it, I handle everything. Medications, doctor appointments, meetings with school. It is all on me because he doesn't know what to do. When my son becomes upset and my husband is with him, I am the one who must come deal with it. I am selfish. I do all this on my own because he doesn't know how or doesn't want to have to deal with any of this. I am selfish. I have been the main caregiver to our boys for 20 years. I am selfish. But my husband, who has been free to do as little as he wants when it comes to raising our kids, is without fault. He may have been selfish, but he didn't have an affair so he is clear of all wrongdoing. Amazing.

Live a life of selfishness, but never have an affair......Saint. Live a life of giving and then do one selfish act........CRUCIFIED (As predicted!).

 

FYI - I do not think my husband is a bad person. I don't sit around and think about him like that. I also don't think I am a bad person (I expect the peanut gallery to have a field day with that statement). I don't think all the OM, OW, MM, MW on this forum are bad, evil people because we had an affair. We may have acted in a selfish manner and we may have used poor judgment, but we are not all bad people. The comments directed at us by BSs often make us out to be people with major character defects and flaws. I just don't believe that and wish some of the broad generalizations would stop. Are there some evil, twisted people out there with mental disorders who are serial cheaters? Sure, but I think the majority cannot be classified as such.

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The generalizations thrown around on here by people who have a WS are incredible.

 

I wanted to comment on this statement as well. I feel like this is the go to response whenever a BS says something a WS doesn't like or want to hear. "You are just taking your frustrations out on me because your spouse cheated on you." I have to ask, does it really matter who says the statement? Would it be better if a FWS said the exact same thing? What about a person who hasn't been cheated on? Will their opinion matter less or more? At the end of the day, somebody is always going to tell you what don't want to hear. That's life.

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True Narcissism is something that must be diagnosed by a physician. If you believe your MM was a Narcissist you may, but that does not make it true. Narcissism is actually quite rare.

 

It's rare because it's near impossible to diagnose. People with NPD are usually fully functional so for them to be committed, evaluated then diagnosed is not reasonable.

 

To get a Narcisist to admit the are one goes against the characteristics of their disorder all together. Even if you can get one to a therapist/psychologist they mold and manipulate easily.

 

I've been to a therapist and by description and based on many examples she has concluded my mother has NPD. So, I must handle situation and issues as if she was diagnosed with NPD.

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It's rare because it's near impossible to diagnose. People with NPD are usually fully functional so for them to be committed, evaluated then diagnosed is not reasonable.

 

To get a Narcisist to admit the are one goes against the characteristics of their disorder all together. Even if you can get one to a therapist/psychologist they mold and manipulate easily.

 

I've been to a therapist and by description and based on many examples she has concluded my mother has NPD. So, I must handle situation and issues as if she was diagnosed with NPD.

 

I do understand this. I suppose my point is simply that the word Narcissist is thrown around on LS quite freely and it is ridiculous to think that all or even most MM/MW are such. When I look at my guy I see a man who is kind and loving, who takes very good care of me and my gaggle of children. Who works diligently and fairly in a business filled with cut throats, who does charity work and tells no one because he does not want recognition. Who gives generously to organizations that need it in both time and money. Yeah, we had an affair, we shouldn't have. It was selfish on both o ur parts. But I do not believe he is inherently selfish. Or a Narcissist.

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