You all told me so...

[SolG]

We had a timeline to start dating openly in the first quarter of next year. Then his counselling kept being interrupted by absences for work; his 'process' slipped. And now he has a new venture that requires him to be working intensely overseas for at least six months. So the 'process' has slipped even more. Now he has said it won't be until late 2015 or early 2016 that we will be an open couple.

 

I just feel like every slippage is ripping away a part of my soul. Like every concession makes me a little bit less of the woman I once was. And believe me, there isn't that much of her left after being an OW for over four years.

 

I don't know why I can't just walk away, even though this is destroying me. And I don't know what I want from this post either, other than to just be heard... :'-(

[gettingstronger]

Its good he will be overseas for 6 months- use that time to heal and move on-

[goodyblue]

I am so sorry you are struggling. It is terrible to feel helpless. Have you called him out? Told him you can't take much more? I ask not to judge but, if the timeline would have slipped that for us, I would have walked no matter how much I cared. I think it may be time for you to live up to and be true to your own end game and if he catches up, great. If not, you have not wasted another precious year.

 

A year is a really long time. Think about it. And be kind to yourself.

 

Xx

[Poppy47]

YOu are right.

 

You will continue to lose yourself until finally you will not recognise the woman you have become. It happened to me.

 

At that point, I had a long hard look and walked away for good.

 

NOt easy , but when you get to the point of hating yourself for your weakness, you will do it.

 

Get out now,

Poppy.

[Sassy Girl]

He's telling you what you need to know.

 

 

You are not his priority.

If your love was so real you'd be overseas with him.

 

 

I'm sorry you're hurting, but he's a liar.

You know this already. The question is, how much are you going to put up with?

[whichwayisup]

We had a timeline to start dating openly in the first quarter of next year. Then his counselling kept being interrupted by absences for work; his 'process' slipped. And now he has a new venture that requires him to be working intensely overseas for at least six months. So the 'process' has slipped even more. Now he has said it won't be until late 2015 or early 2016 that we will be an open couple.

 

I just feel like every slippage is ripping away a part of my soul. Like every concession makes me a little bit less of the woman I once was. And believe me, there isn't that much of her left after being an OW for over four years.

 

I don't know why I can't just walk away, even though this is destroying me. And I don't know what I want from this post either, other than to just be heard... :'-(

 

If you stay, you'll lose all of you. If you leave, it'll hurt but you can find "you" again and be the woman you're meant to be.

 

Staying with him and being hidden for another year or two is sh.itty and unfair to you. he's got a list of excuses, none of them matter. If he truly wanted it out in the open, he'd make it happen despite all the hurdles and changes that are happening.

[herself]

We had a timeline to start dating openly in the first quarter of next year. Then his counselling kept being interrupted by absences for work; his 'process' slipped. And now he has a new venture that requires him to be working intensely overseas for at least six months. So the 'process' has slipped even more. Now he has said it won't be until late 2015 or early 2016 that we will be an open couple.

 

I just feel like every slippage is ripping away a part of my soul. Like every concession makes me a little bit less of the woman I once was. And believe me, there isn't that much of her left after being an OW for over four years.

 

I don't know why I can't just walk away, even though this is destroying me. And I don't know what I want from this post either, other than to just be heard... :'-(

 

 

I hope I come across as sweetly as I mean this.

You say you can't walk away though it's destroying you...so you'll just be destroyed then?

I believe the man is trying to wear you down to break it off FOR him...like if you get so exasperated you'll just go on your own and he doesn't have to muster the courage.

You set a time limit. You gotta bow out for you now.

[jellybean89]

I believe the man is trying to wear you down to break it off FOR him...like if you get so exasperated you'll just go on your own and he doesn't have to muster the courage.

You set a time limit. You gotta bow out for you now.

 

Agree with the above.

 

You've already wasted/sacrificed 4+ years for what? Another extension of the agreed upon deadline? So what happens in 2016 when he "needs" to extend it again?

 

Sounds like he's not really wanting a life as a "real" couple with you - he's content to have you as his mistress forever, because you are allowing it.

 

Yes, you will hurt when it ends, think about how much longer you are willing to be the hidden mistress. No reason at all why he can't - right now - chose to be with you out in the open. Instead of extending the deadline, he can make it happen now, if you mean that much to him. His actions are showing you that you are not a priority. Why in the world would you allow this to continue for more years of your life?

[SolG]

Well, 100 days have just ticked over since MM headed overseas for his current project. In a fortnight we're meeting in an Asian hub to spend two weeks together. We're very much looking forward to it.

 

It has been interesting being physically apart for so long. While we still phone every day and also Skype most, there has been a difference to it. And we're also writing to each other far more than we used to. It just seems like because the medium lacks the richness of face to face interraction, that we're compensating with words. We've had some of the most deep but calm discussions that we've ever had. Some have still been emotional and painful at times, but so beneficial in terms of increasing our common understanding of where we're at and where we're going. Strangely, we've also been laughing a lot more together than we have in a long time.

 

Also, the distance has made me more aware of the emotional reliance I had/have on him. And of the big gaps I've allowed the A to create in my life. I knew this was so, but the extent wasn't as obvious as it is now when he isn't constantly around filling them. And I'm bit by bit filling those life holes (for want of a better term!) back in with good stuff. I'm taking some really positive steps in various directions.

 

The last couple of times we saw each other before he left I was a wreck. The day he left I was inconsolable. This time, I feel like we'll be seeing each other on a more even footing. I don't feel the sense inner conflict, disquiet and self loathing I have on the other recent occasions.

 

I feel like for the first time in a couple of years I'm 'together' and almost 'me' again. While I still with all my being want this to work, I know If MM and I are going to be, we will. If we're not, we won't. And I'll know when he gets back here in country (another 100 days or so after our vacation) by the actions he does or doesn't take. While I know there is still a ways to go and the future is uncertain, I'm okay with that. Que sera, sera...

 

It seems counterintuitive, but it's almost a relief for me to know that one way or another my A is almost at its end.

 

Have any of you other OW/OM/WS felt this?

Edited January 17, 2015 by SolG

[Poppy47]

You will come back a wreck again.

 

Poppy.

[SolG]

You will come back a wreck again.

 

Why such certainty Poppy?

[evanescentworld]

Why such certainty Poppy?

 

You really don't know??

Read your first post again, and try to get this through your head:

 

He puts other things before you. You will always be second base, another option, a fall-back, an "I'll get to you eventually, when I'm good and ready."

Now you're meeting soon, suddenly everything is ok again! Rose-tinted spectacles really suit you!

 

You're right.

What little dignity and self-worth you ever had, in your first post, has entirely evaporated.

 

I sincerely feel sorry for you.

There isn't an original scrap of 'you' left.

 

You're just somebody else's doormat now.

 

Tragic, how with all the good support, advice and counsel you have received here, you've just proven that you have a 'La la la, fingers stuck in my ears - I can't hear you!" attitude, which frankly, is impenetrable, and pitiable at the same time.

 

Have fun.

 

While it lasts.

 

"You all told me so" means f0(k-all to you, doesn't it?

[Popsicle]

It's okay to slowly detach from him overtime at your own pace rather than doing it swiftly. It's a little more gentle that way.

[anika99]

I think this physical distance has helped you find your balance and put you in a better spot emotionally. Going to visit him now may be a big set back. This sounds like such a great opportunity for you to just get out the affair now. If you visit him and then jump right back into the affair when he comes back you will completely lose your newfound sense serenity and well being.

 

 

Had a look at your back story and it seems that this guy has been stringing you along with promises of leaving for about 5 years now. First he was going to divorce then he decided he could never leave his family home so the new plan was that he was going to separate from his wife but remain living with her and the kids while openly dating you. They would remain one big family in the same house while you and he go out in public, meet his family and children, he's going to tell everyone that even though he lives with his wife you're the one he loves and everyone is going to be okay with this arrangement. THAT is NEVER going to happen. Nobody in his house is going to ever be okay with that arrangement.

 

 

I hope you still don't believe that his stupid plan is even remotely possible. He knows his wife is never going to play along with that and that's why he hasn't done one single thing to make that fantasy a reality. He and his wife were going to marriage counselling last year and he told you that he was going to tell her the truth in counselling so he could begin to enact the plan. Well what happened with that? He never told her anything and he's never going to tell you anything. He'll be back in a few months and then he'll tell you he can't tell her because he just got back and he needs to settle in and reconnect with his kids for a while, then after a few months of that Thanksgiving and Xmas will be approaching and he won't be able to do anything then because who wants upset their family over the holidays? Before you know it another year will have gone by and you will be exactly in the same spot you have been in for the last 5 years.

 

 

This is your golden opportunity to walk away without drama. This is your chance to really begin to live the life you deserve and free yourself from the chains of this hopeless desperate relationship. Please for the love of God, don't let this gift of time and separation slip by. Take it and run with it. Don't go see him. End the affair now.

[sunburned]

^^^ This is such great advice from Anika. Why are you having such a hard time seeing this relationship for what it is?? This guy has not kept any of his promises and basically spat all over your so-called time line. You've wasted 5 years clinging to another woman's husband. How much is enough?

 

I totally agree that this international separation is your opportunity to detach. Flex some of your own muscle, do NOT take that trip with him. See how he reacts. You can write que sera sera all you want. But your desperation is clear to a group of internet strangers. So you bet he can taste it.

[lynn1954]

Please don't take that trip with him.

 

 

Cancel the trip.

 

 

Forget him.

 

 

That's clearly the right thing to do.

[Broom]

Don't go. Whatever pain you will feel is going to be 10x worse later.

[Pinklotus]

The strength you've gained being on your own will evaporate after you see him. You'll be pulled back in, and when you leave him, you'll be devastated. You may also feel that this work separation is just a temporary blip, and somehow, when he returns, the real relationship will begin for sure. Only that is very unlikely to happen, and you'll have wasted another year of your life.

[WakingUp]

I don't know whether the trip is a good idea or not... most people seem to think it isn't, but perhaps it is....

 

 

The way I see it OP you have had enough time and distance to see the situation with a bit more clarity. You have been able to detach enough to adopt an amount of emotional distance and objectivity... que sera, sera.

 

 

And you now have the strength to say, hey, if you don't deliver on your promises I am out of here... and that's ok.

 

 

The end of the affair is in sight. Whichever way it goes.

 

 

And surely that is a good thing.

 

 

I think you have enough faith and trust in yourself now to know that you will make it. If he comes through, great, if not... well you dodged a bullet.

 

 

I wish you well, I really do.

[Poppy47]

Why such certainty Poppy?

 

Sol,

Been there several times... had a longish separation and looked forward to getting back together again. The bad times tend to fade a lot when you are removed from them for a while.

 

It wasn't long before I was on the emotional roller coaster again.

 

I hope it's different for you.

Poppy

[Poppy47]

How do you date openly with a MM?

 

Not sure how that works?

Poppy

[SolG]

Just a few points of clarification:

- No, divorce was never asked for (I'm not divorced myself and never intend to remarry) and is not a requirement I have of MM.

- Along the same lines, I do not require him to leave his family or cohabitate with me on a permanent basis.

- Separation under one roof is rare, but not unheard of. I understand the scepticism, but MM's marriage counsellor thinks it's a possible outcome in their circumstances and supports this as his goal. Of course, this doesn't mean it will happen.

- Really, my sole requirement is to stop the sneaking and hiding and lying and uncertainty. I can't do this forever. I KNOW this.

- I have no grandeous expectations of happily ever after story book ending in either eventuality. Both possibilities will entail a lot of hard work.

 

I get that NC is the conventional wisdom, but I've never been conventional. I'm quietly satisfied with where I am. I'm actually far less a doormat right now than I have been in the past in this A. This A will end. One way or another. He's had his one extension, for valid reasons. But there won't be another. The choice to meet my needs, or not, is his. As will be the consequences. And we are both on board with this.

 

As an OW (I think is was Poppy) said on one of my threads, some have to hit rock bottom in order to then climb back out of an A situation. And I did that last year. Big time. And I am climbing out now. Not in the way that many of you think I should, but I am in my own way.

 

I don't see a year as a long time, or another year together as being a waste. If I were itching for a picket fence and to start a family or desperate to find a partner, then yes I guess it would be. But I'm not. To me, this is a last ditch investment to see if we can sort this thing out. High risk investment invariably has high potential return. Or loss. But we both know this going in to this phase.

 

We're going to have a great vacation. And after that I'll have three more months back here on my own to continue plodding along on my own life and progrss. When he comes back, it will be the downhill stretch to wherever it is we're going next.

 

I don't feel the need to hasten an end that is already in sight. And I don't see this as weakness either. I see it as being cautiously optimistic, whilst also hedging my bets. I'n not going to panic sell, but I'm ready to trade if need be.

 

I certainly heed the warnings of the OW here who counsel caution about becoming overly invested again, and that the two weeks together will be detrimental in this respect. I will guard as best I can against this and let you know how I go when I get back.

[MissBee]

Hi SolG,

 

It seems like you have things together and know what's what. Like you said, after the trip is when you'll really see if he can walk the walk or if this is just more talking.

 

I don't quite remember all the previous details about your story so remind me please: is he separated/divorced? Does his wife know about the A? Was there a dday?

 

Edited to add: I posted before seeing your last post. Some of it was sort of answered, but I'm curious about what do you envision no longer hiding looking like since you don't care if he divorces or doesn't move out. Also, is he in counseling alone or is his wife also in counseling?

Edited January 18, 2015 by MissBee

[SolG]

It seems like you have things together and know what's what. Like you said, after the trip is when you'll really see if he can walk the walk or if this is just more talking.

 

I don't quite remember all the previous details about your story so remind me please: is he separated/divorced? Does his wife know about the A? Was there a dday?

 

Edited to add: I posted before seeing your last post. Some of it was sort of answered, but I'm curious about what do you envision no longer hiding looking like since you don't care if he divorces or doesn't move out. Also, is he in counseling alone or is his wife also in counseling?

 

Hi MissBee

 

Not 100% together, but far better than I have been. There is a certain realisation that comes when you get to the point of seriously despising and loathing yourself. And luckily for me, MM's departure OS coincided with this realisation and gave me the space to reflect and focus on my own life. It also gave the two of us the benefit of distance to frankly and calmly discuss as well.

 

My back story is met MM through work, EA that led to PA, now 4.5 years in. I'm long-term separated, MM long-term married with kids but dissatisfied with his M long before he met me.

 

At 1.5 years we talked about being together. I blithely left him to it, and at around the 3 year mark discovered that our definitions of what constitutes working on leaving a marriage, and the timeframe required, were vastly different. The time since has been hellish as we have renegotiated our expectations. I'm now sure for the first time that we actually are (finally) on the same page in this regard.

 

We had a DDay late 2013. He minimised the A (short term only) promised his BW NC with me, and we just went underground. He is still married and at home as work allows.

 

In 2014 they started MC (not for the first time). This time with the goal of really working out where their M is at; and from MM's perspective, getting to point of acceptance that it's over and getting assistance to amicably move forward. His goal is separation under one roof as he wants his children to continue to have access to both parents and the stability that entails.

 

Their MC process has been a combination of individual and joint sessions. They have been through family of origin and relatioship history. As well establishing the current state of the M, which isn't good. While he has expressed that he believes that they are fundamentally incompatible and should move on to a new phase of supportive coarenting, his W wants to try more. They were at the stage of his W being assisted in session to clarify and understand why he does not see that they should keep trying. The MC has told him in IC that her assessment is that he is correct and that understanding, acceptance and effective transition is next. This is when he was whisked off overseas.

 

He is absolutely committed to this process. He absolutely believes that it is best for his W, and ultimately the kids as well, to go through this in a measured and professionally supported manner. He will not disclose our A, as he believes that it would do more damage than good. I disagree, but believe that that is his prerogative and have never asked that he do otherwise.

 

As for not moving out or divorcing... The pragmatic reality is that he has small children and his W is a SAHM; they need his financial and parenting support. I don't. If him remaining there is best for them collectively, I'm fine with that. But I could not cope with it not being in a formal separated under one roof situation. It does remain to be seen whether his W will accept that, but as I said previously his MC believes it is possible.

 

While MM begs to differ, I believe that separation under one roof is the only option he'll accept, not the 'preferred' one. So if it becomes evident that his W cannot accept that arrangement, I belive we will have to have a what next conversation that will lead to me bowing out and he sucking it up and staying.

 

As for what I want.. I like our relationship pretty much the way it is, but minus the horrific subterfuge and uncertainty. We travel a lot in our careers, he is rarely home for more than a week at a time other than holidays. (Which is another reason he really wants to have that time in the same house as his children.) We catch up in person whenever and wherever we can; over the period of our A he has certainly spent far more time with me than his W. IF we remain together and 'come out', it actually will give us more scope to be together because we won't have to waste time working out how to hide.

 

We would of course morph as careers flux and our family circumstances change. That happens in all Rs. I'm open to cohabitation in the future if circumstances were to allow. But that's putting the cart before the horse. First we have to see what the rest of the year brings.

 

I hope that answers your questions.

[jellybean89]

Do you live with him and his wife? If not, then how can you take ANYTHING he has said about his marriage and this alleged 'under one roof separation' as anything more than wishful thinking on his part or even worse, words to pacify you so he can buy more and more time and keep you involved in the affair and his ego boosting?

 

If he is never how, how exactly is he parenting his children? He has an opportunity to BE a parent to his small children, yet instead goes on a 2 week vacation with his mistress? Yeah, great dad material there.

 

Since you are a long term OW, time frames really don't seem to matter to you. Another year or two, what does it matter since he seems to be able to convince you of this alleged movement towards a separation. He can tell you whatever he wants and since you don't live with him and his wife, you have no way to verify if this is really accurate. I personally wouldn't trust a known liar / cheat with more years of my life, but that's your baby to rock, not mine. Just hate seeing anyone wasting their life waiting for a fantasy to become reality. Hopefully, you aren't hoping to start a family with him when he becomes free because I believe you will end up alone because I don't see him changing his life unless his wife kicks his sorry cheating butt out; and then you get him by default. Some women are totally fine with that, some wouldn't want to be the last/only choice.

 

Good luck.