Insight for the OW from a BS

[SpringOwl]

I was a BS and divorced my husband immediately. It really wasn't as hard as I thought and my respect for him went out the window on D-day.

 

I felt bad for my children but they seem to be doing ok.

 

My husband had several OW at the same time and each one thought they were the only one. I worked in IT so I had all the e-mails, phone data, and chat logs.

 

I actually felt sorry for one woman whom my husband told he was single. I really didn't feel bad about the rest because I figured they were in it just for the enjoyment of being with a married man or believed whatever lies he told them. Heck, he fooled me for years.

 

I found out two weeks ago from my girlfriend in Virginia that her husband had the same mistress for their entire 20 year marriage. The kicker is, he had several other women too.

 

I would bet most of these married men have more than one lover on the side. My husband was very good at seperating his women and they all thought they were the only one.

 

I do subscribe to the philosophy that if he will cheat with you, he will cheat on you.

 

Oh, and we had a bad marriage, I had health issues and could not have sex, I was too into my career, we lived as roommates........he used all the excuses and not one was accurate.

 

Being the OW really leaves you on the outside of what is really going on in the married person's life and home. It's a huge leap of misguided faith to assume you are not being lied to repeatedly and often as being the OW. It's also very hard to check up on them when you are not allowed into their base of operations.

 

Just my 2 cents as a former BS.

[FusionCutter]

Being OM/OW is a stupid gamble with virtually no chance of payout.

[Donesharing]

I believe this. I just found out the hard way....no pun intended.

[Mascara]

I'm always surprised when OW say that he can't possibly ever have another - even the odd brief fling - because he would have to lie and evade the attentions of two women..... he has to make great efforts with the wife, because they share a life and his absence needs to be explained. But it doesn't take very much effort to have an OOW. He just has to tell the OW he's with his family.

[Redheaded Mistress]

I'm sorry for your situation, but I'm glad you seem to be doing well now, as are the kids. That's wonderful news!

 

I think just like all marriages are different by their nature, all affairs are different. It's so easy to say our experience is the norm, but in reality, there are so many things that lead to affairs. While some can be serial predators like apparently your husband, there are some who are the one-time OW/OM.

 

I think that understanding where your affair, either as the BS or the OW/OM is so key in moving on, and it's clear you've identified just that with your situation. I'm glad it brought you closure and I hope your future continues to be wonderful!

[GoBlue]

I am sorry for your circumstances. No one deserves to be treated this way. I agree with your conclusion. My thoughts and prayers are with you.

[bentleychic]

I think just like all marriages are different by their nature, all affairs are different. It's so easy to say our experience is the norm, but in reality, there are so many things that lead to affairs. While some can be serial predators like apparently your husband, there are some who are the one-time OW/OM.

 

 

Ding! Ding! Ding! You get the gold star for today!

 

EXACTLY this!!! Just like not two people are the same, no two affairs are the same. I know it makes the BS feel better to tell themselves this kind of stuff...and to tell the OW this kind of stuff and sure, it's right in some cases. It's definitely not ALL cases.

 

And just like a marriage, it's up to each individual partner to decide whether or not they trust what their partner is telling them.

[Got it]

So for me, if we want to look at it analytically this wasn't my situation at all, I did know a great deal, have never discovered I was lied to at all. Nor, since I was married as well, did I lie to him.

 

There is this ability to pick and choose whom one lies to and it is not necessarily a sweeping principle. I did lie to my husband, I never lied to my MM.

[ComingInHot]

I think it's the lying and deceit that takes place within A's that just kills me. Whether it's the WH lying to his Wife or the WH lying to Mistress or the OW Lying to her Husband (reverse gender for the roles I don't care*) or if it's the BS who is lying to herself about red flags or to simply survive each day when the fit hits the shan. It just destroys the soul when your most trusted partner, your spouse, lies to you, about you, and to whomever else that may have to stay blind.

ick.

[A.Moscote]

...I know it makes the BS feel better to tell themselves this kind of stuff...

Why would telling this kind of stuff made them (BS) feel better? How do you know? (Do you feel better now SpringOwl?)

 

Otoh I agree with you and Redheaded M, there are always differences in every relationships, marriages, affairs. Not everyone involved in affairs are serial predators, and sometimes saints do slip. Let us just takes OP's advices and warnings as a lesson without us needing to stereotype every affair to be so.

 

The only thing remain unchanged perhaps is deceiving someone is never the right thing to do.

[adna89]

Why would telling this kind of stuff made them (BS) feel better? How do you know? (Do you feel better now SpringOwl?)

 

Otoh I agree with you and Redheaded M, there are always differences in every relationships, marriages, affairs. Not everyone involved in affairs are serial predators, and sometimes saints do slip. Let us just takes OP's advices and warnings as a lesson without us needing to stereotype every affair to be so.

 

The only thing remain unchanged perhaps is deceiving someone is never the right thing to do.

 

Sure not everyone,but lets be honest,its the rule.Sure some men just happen to end up in an affair but in majority of cases its not innocent

[HermioneG]

Ding! Ding! Ding! You get the gold star for today!

 

EXACTLY this!!! Just like not two people are the same, no two affairs are the same. I know it makes the BS feel better to tell themselves this kind of stuff...and to tell the OW this kind of stuff and sure, it's right in some cases. It's definitely not ALL cases.

 

And just like a marriage, it's up to each individual partner to decide whether or not they trust what their partner is telling them.

 

It does not make the BS feel better. Being betrayed means pretty much everything you thought was reality was destroyed.

 

There's not much comfort to be found in that.

 

When my spouse was busted, and I found the emails- he was very clearly lying to both of us. Some of the lies documented to her were big ones.

 

But then again- we found out later that she was also lying to him in big and small ways.

 

I do believe there are exceptional situations where the affair partners do not lie to each other. I think the emphasis on that part is that it is exceptional and rare, and not in any way the norm. And at the end of the day- any relationship built on the deception of another human being just seems spoiled to me. But my experience is tainted. The longterm affair to marriage relationships I know are pretty ugly, even if the couple has remained together. I am able to recognize that is anecdotal, and not data driven analysis, though. But I think when you begin that way, it just casts a very long shadow.

[the_artist_1970]

Why would telling this kind of stuff made them (BS) feel better? How do you know? (Do you feel better now SpringOwl?)

 

I sure hope this question gets answered. I can't imagine why this would make anyone feel better. That's just crazy to think that.

 

I think the point of SpringOwl's post is that a LOT of MM who cheat do it with several partners and sometimes (not all) the OW can't imagine the MM lying to them when he is a known liar because he is lying to his W (the woman he took vows with). MM lie in most cases to their wives, the OW, the OOW..... It takes a really good liar/deceiver to pull off an affair and hide it from your spouse.

[bentleychic]

I honestly believe it makes some BS feel better to believe that their WS was betraying the OW/OM just as much as they were betraying them. Maybe feel better isn't the exact phrase I'm looking for, but something to that affect. Knock them down to size or whatever you'd like to say.

[bentleychic]

I'm also unsure why this thread is even ON this board rather than the infidelity board since the description of this board is:

 

"The Other Man / Woman The other side of the story: Support and discussion for those who find themselves involved with a committed partner."

[IfWishesWereHorses]

I honestly believe it makes some BS feel better to believe that their WS was betraying the OW/OM just as much as they were betraying them. Maybe feel better isn't the exact phrase I'm looking for, but something to that affect. Knock them down to size or whatever you'd like to say.

 

I think you're right that it has the capability of making them feels somewhat "less bad". Not because it knocks them down to size but more that it shows that it wasn't necessarily them or the OW so much as it is the WS just playing games and being a player. Maybe a small consolation at most. I do think a lot more MM are serial cheater (even the ones in EAs) than people tend to think. Certainly not all are but the us (APs) against them (BS) seems to create a straw man to distract from the real issues such as the lying, cheating and abuse going on on both sides.

[MissBee]

I honestly believe it makes some BS feel better to believe that their WS was betraying the OW/OM just as much as they were betraying them. Maybe feel better isn't the exact phrase I'm looking for, but something to that affect. Knock them down to size or whatever you'd like to say.

 

I guess for me the post didn't seem like an attack on OW more so the side OW aren't privy to, which is being the wife of the MM who lives at his home, can see his phone records and other things, so is more likely to be the one to find out about OOW than the OW is who doesn't have such access and may not catch MM's slip ups, esp since she already knows he is married so he can hide his other dalliances with the excuse that he is with his family. Chances are the BS will find out about any OOW before OW find out about each other.

 

At the end of the day though, on one hand you could just believe that EVERYTHING a BS says is because she takes pleasure in hurting the OW because she is hurt, and on the other hand one could say OW are always defensive and dismissive about anyone pointing out that the A may be just an A or the MM may just be a cheater or that things may not be as they seem because it would make her feel bad to realize she was lied to or used. Both could be right. No woman wants to be hurt or lied to by the man she loves, certainly not the woman who married him and not even the one in the affair who loves him. So both people have some logic to their behaviors.

 

I think a useful aspect of her post is this:

 

Being the OW really leaves you on the outside of what is really going on in the married person's life and home. It's a huge leap of misguided faith to assume you are not being lied to repeatedly and often as being the OW. It's also very hard to check up on them when you are not allowed into their base of operations

 

If I were writing a book for OW I'd put something like this in it. I think if you're reading this as someone who isn't being defensive it is common sense. It's not saying ALL MM are lying, it is saying that one is taking a leap of faith to assume from a known cheater that they aren't (and yes as the OW I didn't think he had OOW....it never came to light if he did....but my common sense said it was at least POSSIBLE, but yes I chose to believe he wasn't). It's also common sense that you're not in the MM's home base as the OW so as I mentioned, the access his wife may have and how she often comes across evidence of the A, say receipts he's left carelessly, his phone records etc are things an OW by the fact that she doesn't live with him and isn't at his home will probably not see. Shoot...I think instead of the BS/OW wars, I think OW can learn a lot from BS's in terms of "the other side of the A" and likewise, a BS can learn from OW about how it was on their side. Guaranteed if both people had a civilized discussion one could find that the BS has insights that the OW just couldn't have seen from her end as well as the OW has insights the BS couldn't have seen from her end.

 

But the wholesale dismissal of each other in favor of the MM is so silly to me. I think both sides can be armed with knowledge from the other instead of assuming subterfuge.

Edited September 24, 2014 by MissBee

[gettingstronger]

I honestly believe it makes some BS feel better to believe that their WS was betraying the OW/OM just as much as they were betraying them.

 

 

Probably goes both ways I assume- I think for me, it seems illogical that an OW is with someone they know is lying to their wife and for whatever reason thinks its not possible he is also lying to them- liars lie-

 

I know for my husband lying became second nature to him during his A- he would lie to everyone about the stupidest things-he was honest with her in that he never planned to leave his marriage but a lot of the other stuff was simply not true- stupid things like the size of our ski house, etc...

 

I also found out other lies he told to others and asked him why- he was like you know I had an alter ego in the A and it spilled over to becoming a huge liar- at times I was unsure what was real and what was not-

 

Thats been a huge thing for him to work on in therapy and its hard for him to admit to what a total jerk he was-

[ComingInHot]

Miss Bee, "Hammer. Nail. Head."

I learned so, SO much from the ow's/fow's/Women as seen in some of my long ago threads. Biggest lesson and healing agent was to understand (selfishly ) that these women are different. They weren't the one who did my wh.

I took the information and questions posed and given me by these women and it really helped me to heal. Do I agree with sleeping with a Married man. Nope. But sharing/swapping stories from both sides allowed me to see what a JACKHOLE my wh was to both of us.

 

*It's important to learn to listen with discernment NOT judgement *

[bentleychic]

I think you've seen me around enough to know I'm not generally like that MissBee. However, it does suck to come HERE to a semi safe nonjudgemental place (okay, that's what I thought it would be when I first came. Know better now! lol) and see stuff from the BS to the OW.

 

I'm sure the OP meant it with mostly good intentions, but a lot of stuff does not come off that way at all. (Not necessarily from her, but a lot of bs that post on the ow/om forum in general.)

 

As I said, it does all boil down to what/who we are willing to trust and what someone else says isn't likely to change that. I don't trust anyone right now...hell, right now, I don't even trust my own heart or head. So...yeah...

[Raena]

I completely agree that there is much to be learned from both sides of the fence. One of the most difficult things I did after dday was to come on here and read the OW forum again and again to try and figure out WHY the OW in my situation would do what she did. Or why she would believe his lies without trying to get confirmation of the truth.

 

I found out a lot from reading both sides.. knowing my own experiences plus what I've read here.

 

There is so much more to the story than what the liar is telling everyone involved. Usually the truth is very painful to hear.

 

As an aside... I recently found out that not only was my ex cheating on me with the OW, but as soon as we split up, he began to cheat on her too. She's completely unaware of this and I would imagine she'd be very hurt to hear the truth.... but in many cases the truth is quite simple. If he's cheating to be with you then there's nothing to say he won't do it TO you too. Not only did he do it once, but he has at least 3 women hanging on the line currently and she (the OW turned gf) is completely in the dark. Does it make me laugh? Maybe a little... ok yeah, I do admit that I had quite a little chuckle over it until I realized that whether it's happening to me or to her, it's just despicable behavior all around and more than likely, there were probably OOW out there too that I didn't know about. It's a sad state of affairs that one person can cause that much havoc in so many lives.

[HermioneG]

I honestly believe it makes some BS feel better to believe that their WS was betraying the OW/OM just as much as they were betraying them. Maybe feel better isn't the exact phrase I'm looking for, but something to that affect. Knock them down to size or whatever you'd like to say.

 

I think in most situations- the person who needs to be knocked down is the married partner.

 

I think the original poster is basically saying- be careful- if they will do it with you, they will likely do it to you. Seems like a frank warning, and quite likely to be true.

 

The OW and the BS usually have more in common than you would think- particularly in a situation where the OW is unmarried. For whatever reason, I feel affairs with both parties married tend to have a different dynamic.

[DKT3]

All A's are different, yet most end the same. 3 of 10 BW file for divorce, 1 in 20 WH leave the M to be with OW. So while I think we can all agree every affair is different, stats show we should be able to agree on how most will end. That is with the H firmly back in the M and the OW left out.

 

Don't want to believe stats simple keep note of how many HERE ends up with MM. From what I've seen here the stats hold true.

[MissBee]

I think you've seen me around enough to know I'm not generally like that MissBee. However, it does suck to come HERE to a semi safe nonjudgemental place (okay, that's what I thought it would be when I first came. Know better now! lol) and see stuff from the BS to the OW.

 

I'm sure the OP meant it with mostly good intentions, but a lot of stuff does not come off that way at all. (Not necessarily from her, but a lot of bs that post on the ow/om forum in general.)

 

As I said, it does all boil down to what/who we are willing to trust and what someone else says isn't likely to change that. I don't trust anyone right now...hell, right now, I don't even trust my own heart or head. So...yeah...

 

Bentley,

 

Understand, I wasn't attacking you, I also don't think the OP was sitting in a seat of judgment either. I can't speak to her intentions but point is, its evident we all read posts from our own perspective, issues, current situation, desires etc. I do think an OW actively in an A tends to read things in a particular way whereas a fOW might not read it in the same way, likewise a MM may not see it the same or a BS...or just depending on the day and what you're feeling you may see things totally differently.

 

It seemed like you saw nothing useful in the OP's post and immediately went to defend all As not being the same and to discredit the post because she is a BS, even though the OP didn't really make it out to be that way neither did she come here speaking negatively towards OW. I actually was going to just ask you when I initially responded whether you felt there was anything of value in it at all or you thought the whole thing was rubbish and no OW could ever benefit from thinking about these things? If ALL As aren't the same are ALL BSs the same?

 

Yea we all trust or hold back trust as we see fit and yep no one can change that. People post here to give their own experiences and stories and I suppose an OW can choose to ignore any opposition as naysaying, which is a popular kind of thing to do, but I do think most people come here esp those who had bad experiences to warn others, so they don't have the same bad experience. Maybe sometimes it comes off as them attempting to tell you what will happen, but I dunno, I think the value for any poster is to read different experiences, see similarities or differences, and file it away for your personal use. I just wanted to pose another view of that post instead of assuming it's invalid or meant to be negative and point out how upset OW get when they think people are saying all As are the same but don't see the irony in their own painting of BSs and their motives with the same brush. I don't expect the BS/OW wars will ever end...but sitting back and watching it sometimes it seems insane because it's two sides of the same coin and at the end of the day the overarching takeaway point I got from the post was that you should be even more careful about your heart in the situation of an A because the situation naturally lends itself to so much opacity.

Edited September 25, 2014 by MissBee

[Got it]

Miss Bee, "Hammer. Nail. Head."

I learned so, SO much from the ow's/fow's/Women as seen in some of my long ago threads. Biggest lesson and healing agent was to understand (selfishly ) that these women are different. They weren't the one who did my wh.

I took the information and questions posed and given me by these women and it really helped me to heal. Do I agree with sleeping with a Married man. Nope. But sharing/swapping stories from both sides allowed me to see what a JACKHOLE my wh was to both of us.

 

*It's important to learn to listen with discernment NOT judgement *

 

And there is the difference, they were on YOUR threads. This wasn't asked for. I have no idea why this is here either. This has little to do with the OW/OM forum.

 

I do think that a BS feels better knowing/assuming that the WS is lying to everyone. Then it is less personal, it is a sweeping behavior. I am sure, because we love to assume sides here , it is far worse to realize that you were the one chosen to be lied to and the only person lied to. (I am not saying that to hit. I am not trying to hurt anyone. But it is congruent to the argument and does happen.)

 

Yes sometimes it is about the WS being a pathological liar. Sometimes it is situational and a poor coping mechanism for the situation. That was the case for me. I had no reason to lie to my MM. He was my complete honesty. I had adapted to be someone else in my marriage and couldn't/wouldn't be me. So the affair was actually very freeing. I could be all of me, the good the bad and the ugly and still be loved. And so that began/completed the evolution of being true to myself. Not the best way to go about learning it but learned it nevertheless.

 

But I take offense when someone has never been on this side of the triangle, the WS and/or OP and tells "us" what and why and what they are doing.

 

So coming over here is just preaching. And erroneous. Don't tell me that my MM lied to me because MMs lie. My MM didn't lie. I, as a MP, did not lie to my AP. And I know I am not unique.