Any recovered bunny boilers out there?

[reckoned]

Have lurked these boards for almost two years. Reading your posts helps me feel connected to people when I am alone in my effort to break a pattern of affairs as an OW. As time has gone on, I've become more and more removed from society. But now, I am motivated to reintegrate. I am still in my twenties, and want to start living. I've started studying part-time (by correspondence online), stopped drinking, and feel good about small gains to clean up my act.

 

But it is not easy. There are hiccups. Sometimes I lose insight and then wobble.

 

Some background: I am a recovering bunny boiler. I know that alcohol brings out the worst of the bunny boiling; but now that I am sober (1.5 months), it pains me to say that the behaviour hasn't gone completely. It's truly terrible. I'm fine at work and try to stay distracted. But as soon as I come home at night, I get caught up in my head, triggers from sadness, pacing, pining, craving and before you know it I'm back in my car staking it out at midnight and feeling horrified at myself in the morning, vowing never to indulge the urge again, but the cycle goes on.

 

The biggest wake-up call for me was one morning after a night of drinking, I found in my living room, a giant cardboard poster I must have constructed the night before for exMM. It had a "love" poem written on it, but the sad fact was I must not have been able to hold my alcohol the night before as the poster was drenched with stale vomit. I can't describe the embarrassment I feel when I reflect on my past actions. The moment I saw my vomit poster, I knew I'd lost touch with reality. It was as if I'd lost access to a frame of reference for what was normal and what was not. Thankfully I never slashed tires or damaged property... Thankfully I never got in trouble with the law. Thankfully the exMM keeps a strict NC. All I have to do is lay off the voicemails, texts, letters and drive-by's once and for all.

 

Can't afford a therapist, but that's OK, I think the worst is over. I am self aware, and being sober seems to help. Any recovered bunny boilers here or people who've known one? If so, what helped? Do you feel embarrassment/shame over the stuff you got up to? Did you have strong social networks and meaningful lives outside your A's? Share whatever stories you have. I'd very much like to hear them.

[carhill]

Any recovered bunny boilers here or people who've known one?

Though typically reserved for the female gender, I saw signs of this many years ago after ending a long EA with a MW. By long I mean about eight years long. There was impulsion to break NC, drive-by's, anonymous cards, etc. Reflecting on it, though over 20 years ago, it was pretty bad.

If so, what helped?

Complete NC, meaning actively shutting down bunny boiler thoughts in addition to the more obvious cessation of any actions of real or potential contact, worked in part. The other part was focusing on other things in life. At the time, I got more involved in volunteer work, went to Africa for awhile, took up racing again and, in general, immersed myself in personally satisfying pursuits.

Do you feel embarrassment/shame over the stuff you got up to?

Some at the time but these days I just laugh at the foolishness of my youth, both at those actions and my involvement with MW's. I simply didn't have the sophistication for affairs that so many of my fellow male competitors did. Not smooth enough nor disconnected enough. So I came to laugh at my own ineptness, as well as felt some shame for controverting my prior moral code of conduct to seek out a relationship.

Did you have strong social networks and meaningful lives outside your A's?

Oh, yeah, no problem; wide circle of friends, actually quite successful in my business. All the trappings of the eligible bachelor. I simply rarely met single women, this long before the commercial internet and online dating. After the affair period ended and the bunny boiling tapered off, that was about the time the commercial internet came to me, in the early 1990's, with online dating starting a year or two later; after that point, dating got better and any interest in MW's faded away.

[IfWishesWereHorses]

No bunny boiling for me but I had a lot of issues controlling emotions dealing with my WH affairs. Those led to severe anxiety for me. I spent way to much time ruminating. Someone suggested that I look into DBT. Dialectical Behavior Therapy. Learning to do some light meditation to deal with anxiety and employing present mindedness changed so much for me! Now under almost any circumstance I can remain cool and levelheaded.

 

You have to train yourself to avoid ruminating and becoming completely entrenched in your feelings. You have to learn to let them go to move on and live a happy life. Good for you for seeking change. Do a quick google search and see how DBT can help you.

[Popsicle]

bunny boiler doesn't mean you're still caught up on your xAP and obsess about them even though they don't even know it. It doesn't even mean that you continue to try to talk to/see them. bunny boiler means you go to the extent of causing them physical or emotional HARM to them, or causing havoc and destruction in their life. (hence a boiling bunny)

 

If you want to ask a question about still being hung up on your xAP, do not misuse the term bunny boiler. Most people are not bunny boilers.

[carhill]

If you want to ask a question about still being hung up on your xAP, do not misuse the term bunny boiler. Most people are not bunny boilers.

 

That's a really good point and that's why I responded, because some of those actions, today, could have been construed as threatening, especially the drive-by's. I also packaged up all of the MW's love letters and cards, eight years worth, and sent them to her husband, timed to arrive right before they were to leave on a cruise. There was purposeful intent to disrupt their lives when taking actions such as that.

 

That's what delineates, to me, bunny-boiling behavior from more benign aspects of affairs and/or post-affair actions. With men, such interactions can become violent, and quickly, so it does bear marked scrutiny. Upon reflection, those actions were wrong and foolish, regardless of any actual perceived threat or injury to the parties. Saying good-bye and quietly going away - not bunny boiling. There were iterations of that, as well, with other MW's during that period so it was easy to see the difference.

[Popsicle]

That's a really good point and that's why I responded, because some of those actions, today, could have been construed as threatening, especially the drive-by's. I also packaged up all of the MW's love letters and cards, eight years worth, and sent them to her husband, timed to arrive right before they were to leave on a cruise. There was purposeful intent to disrupt their lives when taking actions such as that.

 

That's what delineates, to me, bunny-boiling behavior from more benign aspects of affairs and/or post-affair actions. With men, such interactions can become violent, and quickly, so it does bear marked scrutiny. Upon reflection, those actions were wrong and foolish, regardless of any actual perceived threat or injury to the parties. Saying good-bye and quietly going away - not bunny boiling. There were iterations of that, as well, with other MW's during that period so it was easy to see the difference.

 

I agree with you here, but the OP didn't really say anything that in my eyes would qualify as bunny boiling, although what she did was self-destructive.

[carhill]

If the OP had sent that constructed poster, complete with vomit on it, to the BS, that act would meet my threshold for bunny-boiling. As is, that, and other actions they shared here, to me, would not rise beyond the threshold. In that vein, the good news is the path of recovery is a little less strenuous than recovering from the knowledge that one has, with malice and aforethought, sought to hurt others in the world with actions during/after the affair and not just through the act of the affair itself. Small victory, perhaps, but still one positive move to future health.

 

OP, if money is the only thing that is keeping you from IC, I'd suggest seeking out an IC who has a sliding scale for payment based on means. They're out there. IMO, if I had sought IC at the time of those post-affair behaviors, recovery would have been far more brief (instead of years) and to a healthier state. I'd suggest revisiting that with more fervor. Good luck!

[Popsicle]

If the OP had sent that constructed poster, complete with vomit on it, to the BS, that act would meet my threshold for bunny-boiling. As is, that, and other actions they shared here, to me, would not rise beyond the threshold. In that vein, the good news is the path of recovery is a little less strenuous than recovering from the knowledge that one has, with malice and aforethought, sought to hurt others in the world with actions during/after the affair and not just through the act of the affair itself. Small victory, perhaps, but still one positive move to future health.

 

OP, if money is the only thing that is keeping you from IC, I'd suggest seeking out an IC who has a sliding scale for payment based on means. They're out there. IMO, if I had sought IC at the time of those post-affair behaviors, recovery would have been far more brief (instead of years) and to a healthier state. I'd suggest revisiting that with more fervor. Good luck!

 

I will take your word for this. I'm sorry you had to go thru that. How are you now?

[carhill]

I will take your word for this. I'm sorry you had to go thru that. How are you now?

Life is good and MC really helped with processing all this stuff and seeing it clearly, for better or worse, which is why I suggested the OP continue to seek out a competent IC. In our case, once I saw the benefits of MC in the early sessions, I being similarly impoverished, spent some of my retirement to pay for it. Five grand for MC was a helluva lot cheaper than 50 grand for legal fees (what my lawyer quoted) and it provided lessons and tools that will last a lifetime.

 

Since the OP mentions alcohol being an issue in their life, and 'staking it out', apparently meaning driving to the MM's location, now in a sober state, and parking, all the more reason for focused professional help, so the behaviors don't tip into definite bunny-boiling areas.

 

I saw this kind of behavior with a female friend who wouldn't let her H 'go' once they D'd and I'd sometimes get calls in the middle of the night when she was staking out her exH and his dating partner of the day, apparently drunk, while her kids slept at home. Serious stuff, IMO. As our psychologist opined, it bears scrutiny. He was a master of understatement.

[Popsicle]

Life is good and MC really helped with processing all this stuff and seeing it clearly, for better or worse, which is why I suggested the OP continue to seek out a competent IC.

 

Glad to hear.

 

In our case, once I saw the benefits of MC in the early sessions, I being similarly impoverished, spent some of my retirement to pay for it. Five grand for MC was a helluva lot cheaper than 50 grand for legal fees (what my lawyer quoted) and it provided lessons and tools that will last a lifetime.

 

I heard that.

[reckoned]

If you want to ask a question about still being hung up on your xAP, do not misuse the term bunny boiler. Most people are not bunny boilers.

 

Have now looked it up; my understanding of the term was misinformed. When opening this thread, I'd equated bunny boiling with a broader category of problems relating to impulse control. For example, being compelled to uncontrollably act on the feeling of, 'I wonder if he is awake? Maybe I should drive over to see if the lights are on...' Disordered inhibitions. In that regard, I was interested in contributions from those who had crossed over from 'ruminating' (eg. 'I want to be near him') to 'acting' (eg. driving to the house).

 

At any rate, I can seriously identify with parts of Carhill's stories. Carhill, on your advice to seek counseling, could you tell us more about your own experiences with it? How did help, and what can someone expect from it?

 

...lessons and tools that will last a lifetime.

 

What sorts of lessons and tools?

[carhill]

At any rate, I can seriously identify with parts of Carhill's stories. Carhill, on your advice to seek counseling, could you tell us more about your own experiences with it? How did help, and what can someone expect from it?

 

 

 

What sorts of lessons and tools?

 

Lesson one: Processing emotional attachments - in MC I learned how to moderate my tendency to 'jump into' emotional attachments with other people. In a way, I think it went all the way back to childhood, seeking approval from the bullies who would beat me. I learned, in MC, to devalue people, not to a point of dehumanizing them, but rather caring less about them in a healthy way, balancing care for self with care for others, including MW's.

 

Lesson two: Acceptance of the real - If someone is married, accept that as real, regardless of whatever spin they might seek to put on those facts. Prior, unhealthily, I was socialized to intrinsically trust and believe in women. This would be a marked detriment I had to overcome, not to distrust or not believe in women but rather to accept the real of whatever situation was facing me. Most of the 'bunny-boiling' behaviors stemmed from unhealthy emotions of hatred, that impelled by the misplaced belief and trust I put in the words and actions of the MW who, by her own admission many years later, exaggerated the words and actions of her H (exH by that time) to seek attention. MC helped me 'finish' that business and accept that my own behaviors were misplaced and unhealthy, regardless of the impetus I may have felt for them at the time.

 

Lesson three: Tools - one, to learn to process each day as its own point in time. If things are horrific today, tomorrow is another day. Even if death seemed sure to happen tomorrow, today is still today and, really, tomorrow is unknown. This combated my incessant impulse to plan everything out and have a clear path of action for everything. Life is uncertain. Sure, one can plan. One can have hopes. It's OK if they don't work out! This perspective helped 'finish' my business with the past MW while M and put the interactions into the annals of history, where they belong. A less emotionally involved person would never need worry about such matters. I was married to someone like that and learned a lot from her too, in addition to MC.

 

Tools, two, focus more on healthy male friendships and invest in them. Focus would be the tool. Ignore occasional longings for companionship/sex and all that 'stuff' that created havoc prior, both in affairs and marriage. Focus on healthy pursuits that didn't involve women. This helped finish business. Perfect? Absolutely not! You should have read some of my postings in a recent thread about bullying. The hatred for certain women was literally dripping from them. Hence, the work is never completed. There's always a new challenge to meet. What's ironic, and perhaps sad, is I started out life with great respect and admiration for women, which is why I believed the MW in my example and 'hated' her H enough to do such things as I did. Obviously, misplaced loyalty and love. Accepted! He wasn't such a bad guy after all! That's why I focus more on male relationships now. When I meet and get to know women who impress me the way my male friends do, then I might change my mind about associating with them.

 

Tools, three - communication. I communicated too much, prior, at least in my M. Now, in real life, mostly, I simply listen and communicate through actions and show love and care rather than talking about it. And, additionally, am selective! If boundaries of my love and care are invaded, the listening changes to clear speech without fear of abandonment or caring whether they like me or not. Sure, communication can be respectful and polite, but direct. Fortunately, I have friends who support this tool and respect it.

 

So, with respect to 'bunny boiler' behaviors, now I accept married women, and women in general, for who they are, don't believe their schtick or tales or woe simply because they utter them and communicate clearly when I feel my boundaries are invaded. If compromise can be found, that's cool; if not, head for the exit without regrets and spend time with the people who've had my back; my male friends. Last tool - found at any McDonalds - billions are served. That's how I see people now, one of billions. No more remarkable or unremarkable than I am to them. Only human. It's a gift one shouldn't squander.

[cocorico]

Any recovered bunny boilers here or people who've known one? If so, what helped?

 

I certainly know one. My H's xBW. When he told her about the A and that he planned to leave, she didn't believe him. After he left, she kept up the denial, despite the D. Until she couldn't anymore - we live in a small village and she lives close by, and after bumping into us out and about, and throwing tantrums, she started stalking. Breaking in to our place. Messing with our stuff. Stealing my underwear. She stalked me on social media, coloured and styled her hair to match mine, lost some weight, tried to dress like me, took up hobbies and interests of mine. Her emails had been blocked since the separation, so she spawned new accounts. Sent letters - which I simply burned, unopened. She phoned up and hassled his elderly parents and extended family in drunken states, harassed his friends and colleagues, was horrid to the kids when they would not act as her agents in trying to get him back with her.

 

It got better over the years, though there are still drive-byes (we stay very far out of the way, and no one would ever need to drive down our lane except to visit one of the people who live there) reported by neighbours and the post person, and when we go away there are always petty thefts and small acts of vandalism when we return.

 

What helped, mostly, was the kids growing up and leaving home, and my no longer feeling I ought to be encouraging them to maintain some kind of relationship with her. Breaking that contact (between them and her) seemed to sever any connection she still had with him in a clear way, and she's moved several times, each time just that tiny bit further away. She has nothing to keep her here, her surviving family are all on the other end of the country, the kids have left home, she has been retired for many years and her only proper friend lives hundreds of miles away, so we keep hoping she'll finally move really far away. Or, we might.

 

I was reluctant to involve law enforcement, because of the kids and it being their mother, but in retrospect I would probably do it differently if I had a replay.

[gettingstronger]

I am glad you see this behavior as unhealthy-thats huge and will help you in the long run-

 

Our OW was/is what I would describe as a bunny boiler- anon texts, emails, calls, sending items to our home, subscribing to free magazines with her first name and our last name and having them sent to our home-

 

In the end, she seemed more obsessed with being obsessed than hurt or in love with my husband- this has gone on for over 18 months-

 

Sadly, she was not held accountable by herself or those around her and her behavior lead to repercussions she could not face- she tried to OD on tylenol and is now recovering from an organ transplant- while she was in ICU the anon calls and texts stopped, but during her stint in rehab and now while she is at home, they have started up again-

 

Please, do whatever it takes to stop this behavior before it becomes a habit you just can not break-take care of your mental well being-

[Got it]

Honey I am sorry. I definitely think the main issue is the drinking and everything else is a consequence of that.

 

What I have learned about emotional outburst. I cannot control the actions, feelings, or thoughts of others. The sheer moments where I am feeling driven to act out, to push them to see my side, to beg for them to reconsider is the exact time I need to just be still.

 

I guess I also have a healthy temper and so I tend to go to the thinking of "fine you don't want me I will show you life with out me" and go into full an complete shut down/NC. I am far too good to beg anyone to reconsider their erroneous mistake of letting me go. In my younger years I was the queen of the benevolent, wishing you well letter. It allowed me my desire for the last word as well as show how amazing I am. :laugh:

 

I don't know. I think I have had the tendency to try and preempt the "hit" by seeing it coming and then beating them to the punch. My husband says that I had a tendency to "wait for the other shoe to drop" syndrome back in the affair. I just assumed things were going to go bad so I would try and rush towards it.

 

I think that was something else I learned about myself over the past decade. Instead of avoiding pain, I would rather run into it so I can get through it faster. I know it is going hurt, suck, whatever so I want it over and done with as soon as possible to the point I will escalate things to just get there. It is something I am working on. Sometimes there is a happy middle between the two extremes.

[SoftViolin]

This sounds very tough and I definitely empathize. I haven't done the drive-bys or sent any letters, but for several months after my EA ended it was very hard to concentrate on anything at all other than thinking about the exMM and the end of this A. Time helped, it helped a lot. This difficulty and anguish got smoothed over, as well as - and most importantly so - the feelings towards the exMM. I usually keep very busy too in my schedule, and that helped as well. So try and get out, make new friends, get new experiences, remember that this too shall pass, and don't be too hard on yourself for any (reasonable) bunny boiling, or even getting sad and drinking. We all deal however we can.