Can you share you're epiphany?

[ChasingHope]

I just saw a commercial for a new movie coming out, and a character mentioned having an "epiphany" and it got me wondering--does anyone have a story they can share about having their epiphany about their married OW/OM? Besides the obvious one of them being married and with(maybe) children? Because, let's face it, if that was enough, this forum wouldn't exist.

 

I guess maybe I'm just looking for some positive stories about moving on from the A and being happy. I work with my MM, and though our relationship and friendship is over, I have to work with him and even the most superficial, surface level daily interaction causes fresh heartbreak. Just hoping that maybe someone can share that moment that they felt that things were actually going to be better w/o this other person in their life.

Edited July 18, 2014 by ChasingHope
"Your"--grammar

[ChasingHope]

Sorry for the grammatical error in the title--was typing too fast on my phone :/

[MayP]

I don't know about you, but all those Ah Huh reasons/ moments are swimming in my head for the longest time. I know, you know what is best and what to do. Just that dust hasn't settled on the heart feelings.

[GypsumSatellite]

My ah-ha moment was when I caught him in a lie. Not even a major lie, something so silly that it didn't need to be lied about. When I called him out on it, he deflected with an even sillier excuse. That was my last straw. If he'd use that one excuse for any time he wanted to get out of something, then how could I believe a word he said the rest of the time?

 

The epihany was realizing I didn't have to put up with his behavior. That sure, he'll stalk me and try to win me back, but I'm okay on my own. I don't need him to complete me or fill a void or improve my life. My heartaches have mostly come from my involvement with him.

 

And I worked with my MM at one time, but at this point the only connection we have is the connection we choose to have with one another.

[MissBee]

I remember my first real relationship after the A. It is always clear to me this particular moment. I, my boyfriend at the time and his son had just been hanging out at the park together and then afterwards we went to his mom's house for Sunday dinner with his brother, his brother's wife and his nephews. I remember sitting at the table and helping to fix a salad and thinking how NONE of this was possible in the A and how nice and normal this was. I had been in the A for maybe a little over two years and with my then bf for a few months, yet in the A I invested so much time but never had any of that and it felt like a treadmill to nowhere. I remember that was a moment of epiphany when I thought that I don't care how compatible we are, love without the right circumstances is not "meant to be" and I deserve to be your PUBLIC gf, to meet your family, your kids, to be able to see you in all lights and to be able to normal.... and I thought that no way my exAP and I were "meant to be" and I'd never be with ANYONE in an A ever again and any man who was comfortable with me being his OW didn't love me enough. Yupp...that was my epiphany and I still feel that strongly.

[ChasingHope]

Thank you all for the replies. I hate to say it's comforting to hear these stories (because I would never want to find comfort in other's pain), but it's nice to know that none of us is alone in this situation.

 

I think I had somewhat of an epiphany over the weekend....I have accepted that things are over, and that there will never be a friendship because of how things ended, but I have a lot of anger because of that. I feel used and discarded like a piece of trash, and maybe it's wrong, but I blame my ex AP for making me feel like that. However, a dear friend of mine said to me, "What did you expect from someone who cheats on his pregnant wife?".

[OWAmy]

Ah there were a few epiphanies...

 

I started reading books about the dynamics of affairs and they were all the same. One wrote by a former OW described how I had allowed myself to get into the affair, the stages etc...the rot began to set in!

 

I saw his wife's Facebook and pictures of their holiday. Made me think they are entering a new phase of their relationship as it was a holiday just the two of them without their kids. They are rediscovering one another again.

 

And then there was the 'gift' a plaster cast of his face. And he kept pestering me where I was going to hang it. Said he didn't think I'd be able to get away with a painting of him. A macabre gift indeed. He was hankering on me giving it back as it cost him a lot of money. It is boxed and hidden away. I looked at it this afternoon and noticed my dog had weed on the bubble wrap and the mask now has a yellow stain (ha!). That made me feel that he's saying you can't have me, so this is the next best thing.

 

I read a thread on LoveShack one night and that was it...I knew I had to end it. I was ruining late the next morning, baby crying so I tapped a few lines basically saying don't contact me again and I won't contact you.

 

And that was that 8-)

[sisa]

I was in the world that he create for me. He said he cannot live without me and he love me. But he don't want to hurt his wife so he want his wife leave him by herself.

 

and then it was the Dday, and when his wife know my existance, she is very angry and want to divorce. It was a time for him to do the decision, but then he chose her and tell her he don't want divorce and tell me I should know his wife is more hurting than me. I realized that he never want her left.

 

When I finally start the NC, I realized that actually he can live without me.

 

During the time I with the MM, some of my best friends just start dating or either planning for marry. And after two years most of them is enjoy the marry honeymoon or enjoy the time being the first parenting. After two years I realized this wrong choice really hurt myself the most.

[MayP]

I was in the world that he create for me. He said he cannot live without me and he love me. But he don't want to hurt his wife so he want his wife leave him by herself.

 

and then it was the Dday, and when his wife know my existance, she is very angry and want to divorce. It was a time for him to do the decision, but then he chose her and tell her he don't want divorce and tell me I should know his wife is more hurting than me. I realized that he never want her left.

 

When I finally start the NC, I realized that actually he can live without me.

 

During the time I with the MM, some of my best friends just start dating or either planning for marry. And after two years most of them is enjoy the marry honeymoon or enjoy the time being the first parenting. After two years I realized this wrong choice really hurt myself the most.

 

 

One word sisa... LIES.

The heart believed although at times it doubted, but chose to believe regardless. It happens.

You are free now. That is most important sweetheart.

[SolG]

Hi OP. First i must caveat this with the fact that I am still with my MM and I love him dearly and believe he does the same.

 

To give you my backstory, I was married forever and my xH and I separated when our daughter left for college. At that time, I revelled in the experience of being alone (finally) and didn't want a committed relationship. Ever again. Full stop.

 

MM was someone that work threw in my path. We had so much in common. So many shared passions. And I chose to enter into an A with him; although at the time it felt 'inevitable' and 'accidental'.

 

Fast forward three odd years and I had allowed him to become the centre of my universe. My meaning almost. And then I discovered that we had no common understanding of where we were or where we were going. I was devastated and lost. I actually felt like my independent spirit, integrity and sense of self was squashed in so many ways. I went through a crisis of identity and emotion where my world was literally rocked. I was demanding and infantile and gave up my power.

 

Out of that time, MM and I ended up deriving a timeline and series of actions. He is in the process of enacted the actions he promised. Then... I spent some time on dating sites and with friends looking at where I am now, who I am and my potential. In all probability, if my A fails and I end up 'on the market' again, I will choose to be free. But it is somewhat affirming to realise that should I choose to do so, that others would also choose to spend time with me.

 

My conclusion is that even though I love my MM and believe that he will follow through, that I actually have options. That even though in my heart of hearts I hope he follows through with his promises, that I am not defined or confined by his choices. I have choices of my own. Even should I choose not to exercise them and go back to being solo, it is comforting to know they are there.

 

My epiphany is that if this works out, so be it. And if it doesn't, in time I will be just fine.

Edited July 22, 2014 by SolG

[Bittersweetie]

I was a WW. My epiphany happened a few months after d-day.

 

I realized I didn't really like or enjoy those half relationships I had.

 

I wanted to give a man 100%. And I wanted (and deserved) a man to give 100% to me.

 

I am fortunate that my H gave me a second chance, and I worked a lot on myself and my marriage.

 

We have that 100% relationship. And while our marriage isn't always perfect (whose is?), it is healthy and amazing to me.

[GreySkyMorning]

I had a few epiphanies, small ones, while still in the relationship with xMM. There were little things he would say or do that would cause a little crack in that wall of denial I'd built up, but I'd quickly squash them back down. I think my gut knew all along that he would never really leave, but it was so hard to make my heart believe that.

 

My real epiphany came much like MissBee's. It didn't come completely until I was in a new relationship, and even then, not until I allowed myself to open up to him completely without that lingering feeling of disloyalty to xMM. We've been together for about nine months now. We really didn't start getting really close until about March. That was when I went complete NC with xMM. Up until then, I think I'd kept my new guy at arms length, just in case xMM wanted me again. Yuck.

 

When I opened up, new guy opened up even more. In the nine months we've dated, I know so much more about him than I EVER knew about xMM. And he knows so much more about me. He WANTS to know. He treats me great, he values me, makes me feel loved, makes me feel like first place in his life (after his kids, as it should be), shows me that he's proud to be with me, and wants to share his life with me.

 

After two years with xMM, I didn't even know his address. We were LD and of course, I'd never go to his house anyway, but he'd been to mine plenty of times. It dawned on me at the end that I didn't even know what area of his town he lived in. He never bothered to tell me. I'd never met any of his family or friends. He made me feel like he would have been ashamed for anyone to find out about me. When the going got rough, he walked away with no problems whatsoever. It was like the previous two years meant nothing to him. Nothing at all. I'd spent two years of my life crying over this man every single day, loving him as much as I could possibly show him in the hopes he'd choose me (yuck again), turning my back on my own needs. For what? So he could use me for his ego, then toss me away?

 

New guy (I don't know what else to call him) and I were joking around the other day and he made the comment that he'd "fight for me". In two years, xMM never once gave me any indications or feelings that he'd do anything to keep me if it meant he'd have to work for it. Not one single time. Actually, he did quite the opposite. He always made me feel like I was the lowest priority and that our relationship was the thing he'd drop first if it caused any hassle in his life. Turns out that's exactly what he did.

 

I love this new guy. And when he tells me he loves me, I believe it. I have no doubt in my mind. So different than with xMM. I deserve this. Every woman does. A loving relationship isn't supposed to make you cry every day.

 

Right after dDay, I had a real problem with feeling like his W "won". I was so jealous and angry. Now, I feel sorry for her. I know this man, her H. I know exactly the lies he's capable of telling and the level of deceit he can go to. I watched him talk to her on the phone while standing in front of me and lie to her like it was nothing at all. The lie just rolled off his tongue with such ease. I think to myself now that I have something in my life that she'll never have with him. I was the winner in the end, the lucky one. I have the opportunity to have a relationship with a man that has NEVER hurt me, that I trust completely, that we have none of the painful background to work through or deal with, and I can look him in the eyes and believe every word he is telling me. I have no reason not to believe him or not to trust him. I would have never had that with xMM.

 

Now, I think I'll go call my man and tell him I love him and that I appreciate him.

[ChasingHope]

Thank you all so much for posting these....I really needed it today. I had an "off" day yesterday, I ran into my ex MM in the breakroom. We just exchanged cursory "hello's" and that was that. It hurt, but I lived thru it. And it's great to hear some success stories. I know that healing completely will be a long time coming, but I am hopeful I am on the right track.

[ChasingHope]

I do have times that I struggle, however. I am trying to use other people's experience posted on this board to help with the loss (and I do feel the loss--first and foremost he was my friend, or at least I thought he was). And even though we didn't "date" in the traditional sense, it feels like a break up.

 

I feel stupid as I say this, but one of the things I struggle with is that he hasn't really reached out at all to see how I am doing. On one side, I know that this is a good thing, and the only way I will heal is if I have limited to no contact with him. But the other side, the side my heart is on, feels hurt that he doesn't care anymore. It's been almost a month since the whole A ended, and in that time he has been dealing with a newborn preemie, and I am sure I am the last thing he thinks about. And that is the way it should be, I absolutely would never find fault with that. But to think he doesn't care for me at all is pretty gut wrenching.

 

A lot of people on this board have said that the MM will come back most of the time; not all the time, but most. This is probably a warped way of thinking about it, but I almost want him to come back--not because I want him back in my life, but because him coming back would validate that it wasn't just one-sided, and that I am not the only one that had feelings. But, I don't think he will--I will be in that small percentile that won't have to deal with that. I should be grateful, I know.

 

(sorry this is all a bit convoluted--it feels better to get my feelings out, as confusing and silly as they may be).

[HeBentMe]

I don't even know where to start....I want to talk to you, because I too am in a crazy "relationship" with a coworker. I'm waiting for an epiphany, every day I think, maybe this will be the day. I can't let go, I don't know how to let go. This is the hardest thing I've ever been through. If you ever feel like chatting (I just joined this site, literally after I read your post) please contact me, I haven't figured out how to do that yet. I am so happy to hear of someone else in my spot - even though I hate that you are in the same spot LOL. It's horrible, it's torture, EVERY DAY!!! I'm going to try to figure out how to send you a PM or something but if I can't...please know, you are not alone. I am reading the 'epiphanies' and hoping against all hope that I will have one too because I can't take much more

[RegretfulAlways]

I feel stupid as I say this, but one of the things I struggle with is that he hasn't really reached out at all to see how I am doing. On one side, I know that this is a good thing, and the only way I will heal is if I have limited to no contact with him. But the other side, the side my heart is on, feels hurt that he doesn't care anymore...

 

A lot of people on this board have said that the MM will come back most of the time; not all the time, but most. This is probably a warped way of thinking about it, but I almost want him to come back--not because I want him back in my life, but because him coming back would validate that it wasn't just one-sided, and that I am not the only one that had feelings.

 

This is EXACTLY how I feel. It's been 2 months since I walked away from a LD Online/EA with an old flame and I wonder about this all the time. Guess that means I'm not really over him, huh?

[ChasingHope]

I don't even know where to start....I want to talk to you, because I too am in a crazy "relationship" with a coworker. I'm waiting for an epiphany, every day I think, maybe this will be the day. I can't let go, I don't know how to let go. This is the hardest thing I've ever been through. If you ever feel like chatting (I just joined this site, literally after I read your post) please contact me, I haven't figured out how to do that yet. I am so happy to hear of someone else in my spot - even though I hate that you are in the same spot LOL. It's horrible, it's torture, EVERY DAY!!! I'm going to try to figure out how to send you a PM or something but if I can't...please know, you are not alone. I am reading the 'epiphanies' and hoping against all hope that I will have one too because I can't take much more

 

HeBentMe--I'm so glad you joined this forum. It has helped immensely to read other people's stories.

 

I'm so sorry you are going thru this. I have good moments and not so good moments. This weekend, I was out having cocktails with friends, and decided to check his FB page...we aren't friends, but I can see his profile pics......it upset me so much that I blocked him. I regret looking, but hopefully I can remember how much it hurts should I ever be tempted to look again. NC is really my only option. I can't encourage you enough to go NC as well. It's hard, but believe me, it's the only way.

 

I wish we could PM each other, perhaps we can ask a moderator how to do that?

[ChasingHope]

This is EXACTLY how I feel. It's been 2 months since I walked away from a LD Online/EA with an old flame and I wonder about this all the time. Guess that means I'm not really over him, huh?

 

I think we will ALWAYS feel something when thinking about how they are not contacting us, but I don't think it will always be hurt and sadness. It could be relief, nostalgia, regret, etc. But I guess we have to go thru it to get over it.

 

I catch myself wondering if he thinks about me or misses me...and then I force myself to realize that it doesn't matter. The only thing I can control is how I feel. And of course I miss him, but I am holding on to the hope that I will be happier in the long run. I'm also hoping I find someone who I love(d) as much as him.

[justsimplyconfused]

I think what really pushed me over a line was all the lies about how her husband was such a worthless person and she wished he would die, etc. What was shocking and really brought me to my knees was she went to the movies with him and then proceeded to go out to a club with him. THEN once I confronted her she told me that she didn't post on facebook so that it wouldn't hurt me.

 

I was so blown away, I immediately deleted her, friends, etc.

 

I was an idiot. The whole situation was pointless but NC is for sure the way to go. Today's the first day and even after today I've already gained so much clarity to the situation that I can see past the lies.

 

It doesn't change the fact that you feel like your heart isn't ripped out of your chest.

[ChasingHope]

I think what really pushed me over a line was all the lies about how her husband was such a worthless person and she wished he would die, etc. What was shocking and really brought me to my knees was she went to the movies with him and then proceeded to go out to a club with him. THEN once I confronted her she told me that she didn't post on facebook so that it wouldn't hurt me.

 

I was so blown away, I immediately deleted her, friends, etc.

 

I was an idiot. The whole situation was pointless but NC is for sure the way to go. Today's the first day and even after today I've already gained so much clarity to the situation that I can see past the lies.

 

It doesn't change the fact that you feel like your heart isn't ripped out of your chest.

 

You're not an idiot. But, like many of us here, we believed what they told us, because it's what we wanted to hear. My MM told me he cared about me, I was a dear friend, he would never hurt me.....then proceeded to drop me like a bag of hot garbage. Whenever I'm tempted to push him back up on the pedestal I created for him, I try to remember how I felt when he did that.

She maybe lying about how horrible her H is......or she may not be. But at this point, the only way you will heal and move on is to not care either way. And the only way to do that is to remove her from your life. Don't wait for her to do it for you.

 

It will hurt, but the sooner you go thru the pain, the sooner it will be over (cliche but true).

[PachucaSunrise]

I just saw a commercial for a new movie coming out, and a character mentioned having an "epiphany" and it got me wondering--does anyone have a story they can share about having their epiphany about their married OW/OM? Besides the obvious one of them being married and with(maybe) children? Because, let's face it, if that was enough, this forum wouldn't exist.

 

I guess maybe I'm just looking for some positive stories about moving on from the A and being happy. I work with my MM, and though our relationship and friendship is over, I have to work with him and even the most superficial, surface level daily interaction causes fresh heartbreak. Just hoping that maybe someone can share that moment that they felt that things were actually going to be better w/o this other person in their life.

 

I'm really glad you brought this subject to light, ChasingHope. I've been mulling over this post for over a week now. It's been eating away at me a little bit every day and so I figured it's time to bite the bullet and let it all out - for you, for others, and for myself. If it helps any one of us, in any way, then I'm gonna take that positive and run with it. And I'm gonna keep on runnin'.

 

I didn't expect your post to hit me so hard, but I'm glad it did, so thank you. I'm almost embarrassed to admit the amount of little epiphanies I've experienced over the months after the A (and some small ones during the A). In fact, I'm not ALMOST embarrassed. I AM embarrassed. TOTALLY embarrassed, which is why I've been avoiding facing what I know is the harsh reality all this time, or at least admitting it. It's so true what they say: The truth will definitely set you free, but at first it will piss you off.

 

My reply may come off a bit on the negative side, but really, it's not. Not at all. Giving your post some serious thought has put me through the wringer, but I don't want you or anyone else to take that the wrong way. It's been a very good experience for me - an eye-opening experience - as I'm sure it as for many others. The signs were always there, but now that I'm reflecting back on everything, they're more obvious than ever... And that's the toughest pill to swallow.

 

To some of my friends on here who have stood by me from day one - no, I haven't stopped beating myself up just yet. BUT... I am starting to ease up a little bit, but just a little bit, haha. I don't want to hijack your thread, ChasingHope, but I do want to remind everyone JUST how much their continued support means to me. I will be forever grateful.

 

So, back to business. I'm too embarrassed to admit the biggest epiphanies I've experienced, but even the smaller ones are pretty bad so I honestly don't think it matters all that much. The bottom line is that I've come face to face with reality and have learned more than I could ever imagine. I haven't quite accepted everything just yet, but I'm definitely working on it... Harder than I've ever worked on anything in my entire life.

 

One major epiphany that will always stick with me came from a stranger. While XMM and I were out one night, this stranger pulled us aside to mention that he had noticed how happy we looked together, dancing in our chairs and singing along to a particular song, and then he asked us point-blank - "Was that song your WEDDING SONG?!?!" I nearly died. And in that moment, I became selfishly ecstatic, right along with XMM. We couldn't believe it. Some random stranger just picked us out of a crowd and noticed us like that?! What was so special about us that would make him take notice?! XMM and I were on cloud 9 of course - after going back and forth, trying to decide if we should meet for the first time or not, fate took over and that stranger's comment proved it! It was REAL, and we were MEANT TO BE!!

 

And today, as I write this, I think about XMM's W and what she was doing that night. Was she home with their child? Eating dinner? Sleeping? All I know is that she had NO CLUE what her H and I were up to. Not a clue in the world, and that thought completely destroys me. How in the hell was I able to sit hand-in-hand with her H, the man she was married to? Who the hell did I think I was? Who did he think he was? Well, we didn't think, at all, and that's what's so painfully obvious to me now. That man who approached us thought we were a couple, that we were M, and in reality, his W was actually at home probably taking care of their child! And there we were, flirting like two teenagers while having the time of our lives!! Not for one minute did I think of her that night. NOT FOR ONE MINUTE. The only person I thought about was myself. I don't know if I'll ever be able to forgive myself for that. I'm continuing to give it an honest effort but I think it just might be the hardest thing I've ever had to do.

 

Wow! Writing this out is brutal, much harder than I thought it would be, so I'm just gonna call it a day right here.

 

But as far as learning that things are going to be okay and that life will go on once again... Well, it has, and it continues to move along, for all of us, whether we're ready for it or not. Time just doesn't stop, and if we don't get our asses in gear, pick up the pieces and move along with it, we're gonna miss a whole lot of good stuff, and I don't want to do that anymore. I can't exactly admit that things are better without him in my life, but how were they good, in ANY way, while he was in it? How can things not get better now that I have the opportunity to be with someone in an honest manner? And now that his XW finally has the opportunity to find true happiness... How can that not be a good thing for her? There's just no debating any of this.

 

My heart is bent, but it's certainly not broken. All I can hope is that this time, when I meet someone, and while we're out enjoying each other's company, singing along to some happy song... If someone asks us if it's our wedding song, maybe we'll be proud to admit that it actually is.

Edited July 30, 2014 by PachucaSunrise
Grammar

[Daisy2013]

I guess mine happened when he planned a 3 week vacation he and his W take every couple of years. A lot of the trip is things he likes to visit, museums and such, but still. The first time I was in torture. This year it hit me a person doesn't take a 3 week vacation with someone they don't love. He continued to tell me he loves me and I am his best friend, but could not divorce, and that they just "play house" and there R is empty. I decided this time it wasn't about him, but ME, and what is best for me. I have to get away. I am fading away and have blocked my phone. He won't txt or email, so no worries. A friend in our church is ready to ask him to leave and go to another so I can heal. He's got status, so he would likely leave to avoid scandal.

 

He has my heart and always will. But, this time it is about me, and NO more breadcrumbs or feeling like he's doing me a favor making time for me.

[Capris]

first off, daisy2013, don't swear on the "he has my heart and always will" thing! Just sayin!

 

Second. I think i was the blindest when it comes to clinging on to MM to the last minute. He even brought a new girl to the picture and i still hoped. LOL!! Well my story is a bit complicated, but still, wow how much i needed to be blind!!

 

So, when you say " I almost want him to come back--not because I want him back in my life, but because him coming back would validate that it wasn't just one-sided, and that I am not the only one that had feelings." , it reminds me of my blindness and what i wanted to hear in order to justify my feelings. This only drove me more into sticking to the hope that one day we will be together.

 

I was hearing what i wanted for months. Translating his every move and words into real feelings, cause god forbid i admitted to myself i made the worst choices of my life for YEARS. God forbid i had to admit i was stupid for so long. As i said in another post, people who choose to be second in a relationship have issues that need to be fixed. Low self esteem?depression? You name it. Find it and fix it and above all, forgive yourself . Pat yourself on the back and say "its ok, i made bad choices", "its ok, it was one sided", " I forgive myself."

 

My epiphanies?

As another mentioned, i had tons and my gut knew from the beginning i was making wrong choices, but apparently he gave me something i needed at the time, so i fell in love with who i thought he was.

The last and best epiphany came when i stumbled upon an article about Cluster B personalities. I read the description of a sociopath, it reminded me of him, googled further, stumbled upon an article of "how its like to date a sociopath" and BAM. Everything was clear. All of his lies fell into place, his behavior towards me was no different than his awful behavior towards his friends/wife etc. He was a full blown sociopath. Note, This was not me looking for names to call him.For every symptom i had 50 examples of his sociopathic behavior on me and on friends.Im not saying every MM is a sociopath, check it out though if you like.

 

So besides the sociopath thing, i basically saw him for who he was and not for what i wanted him to be. I saw that he never had feeling for me, i was just convenient. Its ok. So i was manipulated for almost 6 years. I am not now and i probably will never be again. Everything is great! I forgave myself. It was super hard, but totally worth it!

 

 

Good luck to all and strength!!!!

[Sasha1/2]

I'm reading all of the signs each of you had. Maybe it is still too soon after ending my A but, other than the fact that our choices were wrong, I do think my XMM is a good person who is trapped in a bad marriage. We're both liars.

[ChasingHope]

I'm so glad so many people have weighed in and given their epiphanies. There were so many "small" epiphanies that happened daily that I chose to ignore. However, NC has worked wonders in not only being able to see these in hindsight, but also to help me heal. He has been on paternity leave, and I think he will be gone another week (fingers crossed). I'm starting to feel like there is a light at the end of the tunnel. And I am also starting to feel more at peace with the situation--I may never meet someone that I connect with like I did him, and maybe I am just meant to be alone for the rest of my life. That's not what I want, but perhaps down the road I can learn to be happy with that.