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Did any of you plan for the end?


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Hi there Fellow Others

 

My MM is about to start MC; what he sees as end of story exit counselling, while his W holds out some slim hope that it may lead to R instead. There are all kinds of possible outcomes. These are only some:

 

- It goes as MM wants it to, and they separate under one roof.

- They actually do find that they can through the MC and with concerted effort, R and rekindle some sense of a true M.

- MM finds it harder than expected emotionally to follow through, and Rs.

- MM's W reneges on separation under one roof and decides that if the M ends, he must move out. In this case he will R to stay; he WILL NOT live in a separate house to his children.

 

Even in only those few scenarios that I just thought of off the top of my head, there is only one in which our relationship can continue. And even in that instance, there is still the matter of my additional proviso that we must be openly dating in the first quarter of 2015.

 

So.... while I do still love MM immensely and do hold out hope that our relationship will make it, I do realise that the odds are against us. If we can't survive, he has promised to tell me the minute he knows that. And I absolutely trust that he will. And I will also absolutely respect and support whatever choice he makes. He also understands that I will not be able to revert to being just his friend should our relationship end; even though he wants me to be should that happen.

 

I'm now in the position that while hopeful yet, I think it would be prudent for me to plan also for the eventuality of us ending. I feel great trepidation at the possibility of losing the person that I've have spoken to every single day for the last almost four years. My best friend, lover and confidant in all things for all that time.

 

I'm trying to fill my life fuller than it has been with lots of stuff I want to do. I'm refocussing on my career in a way I haven't done for a long time. And I'm spending more time with my family. But I'm worried that no matter what I cram in, it won't be enough to fill the void that his absence will leave. And that void will just be filled up with unbearable loss and pain.

 

There are a couple of things I absolutely will not do if this ends. One is talk to friends or family about this and/or lean on them; it is not their burden or secret to bear. And two, I will not date. When my marriage ended, I promised myself that I would not ever have another man in my life in any serious way. I wanted pure freedom. MM obviously changed that, but I will not date anyone else if this ends.

 

Did any of you have the opportunity to plan ahead? If so, what did you do that you found most helpful when your A did end? Would really appreciate your stories of what helped, and also what hindered.

 

One thing I'm thinking of is a planning a farewell trip for MM and I if it comes to it; where we can toast and grieve the end of us together for a little bit before we go our separate ways.

Edited by SolG
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Oh dear. Does the lack of response mean that nobody plans in advance to get through the end of an A? That surprises me :-/

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Hi SolG , one thing that immediately sticks out to me is that his preferred end game is to be separated but living in the same house as BS?? I can't imagine, and I pray to God that no therapist would recommend this. Especially considering the wife still wants to be together. (Does he plan to tell her of the A in MC?) I can't imagine that would be a good dynamic for the kids.... Admittedly, I don't know your entire backstory, but to me that sounds like just another way for your MM to eat cake. Still having the stability of his home life while having you on the side.

 

To answer your question, I didn't..i couldn't have done a weekend away like that. for me, every time we spent chunks of time together it got harder for me to pull back because the fog just got thicker.

 

I'm sorry you're in this position and I hope you'll see how much more you deserve ((hugs))

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I'm planning for the end of my A right now, but my scenario is a little bit different. We love each other but neither of us are willing to leave our marriages, so why continue? It's now become longing for and agonizing over someone we cannot have, which I find a waste of time and stress. HE wants to push forward and see where it can lead to. The last time I suggested we split I was very nice and wished him luck, said we would always be friends (which was just a nice gesture, because we don't live near each other, it's hard enough to see him in the A, we would never cross paths by chance) but he didn't take it well. I was a sucker and caved, now I wish I had been firm because I'd be past the first few hard weeks of NC by now. Anyway... yes. I am planning for the end. No final goodbye meeting, no trip, no lunches... I know myself and if I want this to stick, I can't see him again.

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I think a farewell trip is a REALLY bad idea! it'll add to your misery and make it that much harder to move on since you'll have even more memories to deal with .

I say it it a very compassionate way but I feel like a lot of us , myself included, look at A through the eyes if romantic novels, tv shows and movies . That is not real life, my friend . Things that look good there or work out , doNOT happen in life .

Good luck . I hope for your own sake , you go cold turkey to end this .

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I don't know how you could ever plan for something like this - I think that no matter what you may want to happen whichever case scenerio your MM decides is best, it will be very difficult to 'plan' your goodbye.

 

I have to agree with others that it would make it 1000x more difficult if you plan on a trip to say goodbye---I can't imagine traveling somewhere knowing the end of the trip meant the end of the affair.

 

A goodbye in person is one thing, but I think you are setting yourself up for a ton of pain by thinking a trip is a good idea.

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I didn't plan an end, my feelings simply shifted and I then ended it. However, I think what you are doing - making your life fuller, finding more things you enjoy doing - is an excellent approach. While it won't let you bypass the grieving and heartbreak, I think it will allow you to heal quicker and stronger. One strategy is to force yourself to continue to do the things you enjoyed even when you are grieving and think nothing feels very good at that time. If you've already built up a bank of lots of different activities, including different interactions with people, that you enjoy, that will help.

 

I also don't think a farewell trip is a good idea. The best farewells (for lessening pain, increasing recovery) are no longer than they need be to say what you think needs to be said and to hear what the other wants to say. Once one party has made the decision to end things, explaining that clearly to the other person is usually all that needs to be said. On the other hand, if neither of you have truly made the decision to end things, then no farewell is likely to work.

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My xMM defined a timeline and I knew I had to stick to it. With regard to his marriage, he did a few things but nothing that couldn't be undone. When the time came, he panicked but I stuck to it.

 

I planned ahead by deciding to trust him while acknowledging that only a selfish man would keep things going this way. If he couldn't be mine, I didn't want him.

 

Turns out he was a selfish coward. I modified my plan with that knowledge and made a decision not to waste another moment loving him. That was easier than I thought because I focused on the truth, not the ideal I had of him or what we shared.

 

That was almost a year ago.

 

I've been in a relationship with a single man for 10 months. I'm not a secret, I can be with him or contact him whenever I want, and so on.

 

Don't end this affair and still pine for what could have been. Move on. It's the best way to realize how dysfunctional your affair is. It's all talk and wishful thinking. You're planing for the end because you know he's not leaving. You're waiting for a decision that he's already made. Another 8 months that he knows he has to manage you. If he wanted to leave his marriage, he would.

 

It really is that simple. If you end it and move on, you'll see that very clearly.

 

 

AMAZING POST!!! This should be a sticky....because that's the bottom line "if he (any MM really) wanted to leave his marriage, he would"... In the fog it's so easy to romanticize it but it really is that simple.

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My friendship with married man does have an end. If I don't hold fast and continue to avoid seeing him (we are not in NC), then it will end shortly after she retires - which is less than three years. He has already expressed concern once she retires and has more free time to manage his schedule and check things.

 

But, we will not be together.

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MY MM and I planned our end. We spent a romantic evening together, said our goodbyes and went our separate ways so we thought. Well the attraction and addiction was too great. We went on an additional two years. Our last ending get together was in Feb. of this year. Although we are in low contact I have a feeling he is still wanting to rekindle.

 

 

I don't think planning ahead works at all. At least it didn't for me. BTW please don't do a farewell trip.

Edited by uneek74
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I understand the trepidation you're feeling, but I really doubt most people plan for the end in the conscientious way you're asking. For example, I get that you want to end things on a good note, so to speak, many people do, but planning a farewell trip to "toast and grieve", sounds like a good plan in theory but in reality will probably not achieve what you think it will. The actual logistics of planning a romantic trip together in order to break up doesn't actually make sense and won't lead to closure but will make it even more awful.

 

For me, when I was the OW, I knew eventually it would have to end. I didn't have any solid plan for it, but I wasn't blindsided, in the sense that I always anticipated that sooner or later things would dissolve, as after weighing the reality and the choices available (much like you have laid out in your case), the situations in which we could be together were most likely not going to happen. But I had no plan except trying to slowly emotionally distance myself to buffer myself against the inevitable...but even that didn't really work.

 

Based on your post I guess the ideal (for him) is that MM separates (but still lives with his wife) and you continue having a relationship? Will that relationship be a secret or open? What is YOUR ideal? It seems like in all the options stated, what is most advantageous to HIM is what's discussed and not to you, and I do see that as a problem. It seems like in every situation presented you will get the short end of the stick, even in his ideal scenario. To clarify: should things work out how MM wants, his ideal, where he is separated but still lives with his wife, is that a scenario in which you will stay with him, provided that by 2015 things are open? And is it that in the rest of scenarios you will break it off and don't plan on continuing a secret affair?

 

Truth is, should things end, there is no quick way to get over it. You're gonna have to face the loss with the terrible lows it brings. I wish it could be otherwise but you will simply have to go through it. I get your 4 things you won't do, and if it is worth anything, I would suggest you reconsider that. You need not "burden" your friends and family but I would hope you have at least one friend to confide in who won't be burdened by it. At the least, you can plan to see a therapist just to have someone to talk to as you process things. As for being "free" and not dating after MM, well....I sort of get it, but you've known the joy partnership brings, unfortunately you got partnered with someone who was essentially unavailable and post-divorce it makes sense. If you decided you didn't want to be with anyone again and wanted to be "free" you essentially chose the perfect pseudo-relationship, where it's sort of still free, as your partner is married to someone else and you didn't have to take the emotional risk of forming a single, normal, out in the open dating relationship. In the end you still get hurt, but I do think it's common that we can subconsciously choose these situations because it leaves us less vulnerable, and in the end if it doesn't work we can say well it was because of all these external factors, whereas when you date a single man and you're single, there is no buffer and no external factors to blame and you have to give it an honest go....so in a weird way an affair is safer, as you get a kind of relationship, but with built-in barriers that aren't immediately your fault or theirs supposedly. However, I've learned that in trying to avoid pain we sometimes heap it on more.

 

You don't have to date after MM but if you don't choose to just because of pain, I'd rethink it. All you can do is take things one step at a time though and support is a must, so I'd start thinking of how to be supported should things end. Isolating yourself will only make any loss and grief you feel that more overwhelming.

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Speakingofwhich

Re: the farewell trip. I'm with everyone else so far in discouraging it. I had a farewell trip with a bf (not an MM) whom I always knew it wasn't going to work with. I didn't even want it to work with him, though we loved each other. It was a sad time, not fun. Would never do it again.

 

In a sense I did plan the end of the A with MM the first time I was with him as I began to want to get out of it because of overwhelming guilt feelings, though we were crazy in love with each other. The D day occurred in a way that was traumatic for me. At the very moment it happened my feelings left me and I walked away unscathed by grief or longing.

 

I think it was like being in a loving and wonderful prison that I began to want to escape from back into reality. When D day happened it was as if a door swung wide open and I fled out into the wild blue yonder with my arms stretched out to the warm sunshine and fresh air shouting, "YEEEEEESSSS"!

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Re: the farewell trip. I'm with everyone else so far in discouraging it. I had a farewell trip with a bf (not an MM) whom I always knew it wasn't going to work with. I didn't even want it to work with him, though we loved each other. It was a sad time, not fun. Would never do it again.

 

In a sense I did plan the end of the A with MM the first time I was with him as I began to want to get out of it because of overwhelming guilt feelings, though we were crazy in love with each other. The D day occurred in a way that was traumatic for me. At the very moment it happened my feelings left me and I walked away unscathed by grief or longing.

 

I think it was like being in a loving and wonderful prison that I began to want to escape from back into reality. When D day happened it was as if a door swung wide open and I fled out into the wild blue yonder with my arms stretched out to the warm sunshine and fresh air shouting, "YEEEEEESSSS"!

 

Speakingofwhich, have you stuck to complete NC since your 'epiphany?' I rememeber reading 'the dinner' so well because it was just such an amazing story.

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Speakingofwhich

No, Mickey, this time we've been off and on. It's been very different in many ways than it was the first time.

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No, Mickey, this time we've been off and on. It's been very different in many ways than it was the first time.

 

So, you had a real 'd-day'??? Please can you tell me about it---it really helps me understand what my exMM may have gone thru and how things ended up afterwards for me.

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Speakingofwhich

Yes, we've now had two D days. Second one fairly recently.

 

What do you want to know about it that would help you?

 

Also, wonder if it would be a t/j?

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Yes, we've now had two D days. Second one fairly recently.

 

What do you want to know about it that would help you?

 

Did it snap either of you into a 'realization' that it was time to go NC and comepletely put an end to it?

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jellybean89
Hi there Fellow Others

 

My MM is about to start MC; what he sees as end of story exit counselling, (1) while his W holds out some slim hope that it may lead to R instead. There are all kinds of possible outcomes. These are only some:

 

- It goes as MM wants it to, and they separate under one roof.

- They actually do find that they can through the MC and with concerted effort, R and rekindle some sense of a true M.

- MM finds it harder than expected emotionally to follow through, and Rs.

- MM's W reneges on separation under one roof and decides that if the M ends, he must move out. In this case he will R to stay; he WILL NOT live in a separate house to his children.

 

Even in only those few scenarios that I just thought of off the top of my head, there is only one in which our relationship can continue. (2) And even in that instance, there is still the matter of my additional proviso that we must be openly dating in the first quarter of 2015.

 

So.... while I do still love MM immensely and do hold out hope that our relationship will make it, I do realise that the odds are against us. (3) If we can't survive, he has promised to tell me the minute he knows that. And I absolutely trust that he will. And I will also absolutely respect and support whatever choice he makes. He also understands that I will not be able to revert to being just his friend should our relationship end; even though he wants me to be should that happen.

 

I'm now in the position that while hopeful yet, I think it would be prudent for me to plan also for the eventuality of us ending. (4) I feel great trepidation at the possibility of losing the person that I've have spoken to every single day for the last almost four years. My best friend, lover and confidant in all things for all that time.

 

I'm trying to fill my life fuller than it has been with lots of stuff I want to do. I'm refocussing on my career in a way I haven't done for a long time. And I'm spending more time with my family. But I'm worried that no matter what I cram in, it won't be enough to fill the void that his absence will leave. And that void will just be filled up with unbearable loss and pain.

 

There are a couple of things I absolutely will not do if this ends. One is talk to friends or family about this and/or lean on them; it is not their burden or secret to bear. And two, (5) I will not date. When my marriage ended, I promised myself that I would not ever have another man in my life in any serious way. I wanted pure freedom. MM obviously changed that, but I will not date anyone else if this ends.

 

Did any of you have the opportunity to plan ahead? If so, what did you do that you found most helpful when your A did end? Would really appreciate your stories of what helped, and also what hindered.

 

(6) One thing I'm thinking of is a planning a farewell trip for MM and I if it comes to it; where we can toast and grieve the end of us together for a little bit before we go our separate ways.

 

First bold -- why do you think his wife is holding out hope for a R? Does she know of the affair? Have you spoken with her to ask her what her thoughts are for the marriage counseling she is about to start? Or is this just what the MM tells you? Are you even sure they are going to MC? He could be just saying - to throw you off, to get you to back off or because he really does want to fix his marriage. I don't know how any person could 'pretend' to want to fix a marriage by attending marriage counseling. Most times, those sessions are emotional, introspective, and have 'homework' for the couple. He is telling you he is hoping to start his 'exit' by going to counseling??? That doesn't make sense to me. While he is in MC, I am guessing contact with you will be very limited and there will be no sex with you - since he is allegedly going to this counseling to work on his marriage. What do you mean by "M's W reneges on separation under one roof"... is he telling you that his wife is agreeable to separation as long as they both stay in the house? He will only stay in the marriage for the kids? Why? He will probably have more interactive and quality time with them if they do separate because he won't have his wife there to do everything for them and he will need to pay them attention; as opposed to now when he is distracted with communicating with you (texting, emailing, phone calls, etc). Are you saying that no matter what, he has made the decision that he is not leaving the marital home? so what is in it for you? How is he going to meet your deadline (see below comments) if he has no plans to leave the marital home? And why are you okay with that????

 

Second bold - so you gave him a deadline of March 31, 2015 (a year from now) when he has to be dating you openly? You gave him a YEAR? I don't think that is fair to you because it gives him a year to drag his feet and continue to sneak around with you.

 

Third bold - I do not understand how you 'trust' him to tell you when he decides he no longer wants to be with you. He has no reason to tell you that he is done -- what does he benefit from doing that? Right now, he has you for whenever he has time. You have made no demands on him for more than bits of time, more commitment, etc. He doesn't have to put up much of an effort to be with you because you have shown him through actions (and maybe words?) that you will be waiting right there for him for whenever he has time. That isn't right for you. Even though you are a mistress, you should demand more. You shouldn't let him call the shots. You should demand he show you by his actions that you are worth more than snippets of time.

 

Fourth bold - I bet his wife feels the same way. All the years she has invested in her marriage/family and what does she get from him -- his decision to cheat. I hope she finds out and I hope she kicks him to the curb (which would be a somewhat of a win for you). I bet if she knew of his deception and the affair, she would gladly give him his freedom so he could be with you.

 

Fifth bold - why in the world are you saying you will not date when this affair ends? Why would you even think that way? This MM isn't a representation of all men - not all men are cheaters. Why would you choose a life of solitude if you can't be with the MM? Why would you do that to yourself? What kind of freedom are you seeking that would mean you would not be with someone else?

 

Sixth bold - please don't do that. That will not be good for you. First of all, would you have to pay for it? Or will he take money from his family to pay for it? Why would you go to some huge expense to say goodbye? Why would you put yourself through that? Why not end it now - tell him to come find you once he divorces? Why spend the next year getting even deeper involved? Why are you allowing him to call the shots in your relationship? Demand more for yourself. If he loves you like you believe/as he claims, he would be with you. Don't give him any more excuses for disrespecting you (by keeping you his secret lover) and stop disrespecting yourself by allowing him to use you like that. Men who love someone do not do that to them! Why can't he leave? Why does he want her to be the one to end it?

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Speakingofwhich
Did it snap either of you into a 'realization' that it was time to go NC and comepletely put an end to it?

 

The first time wasn't a snap into realization that it needed to end. Because I'd already been feeling for months that we should go NC (because of guilt) so that when it happened it was a way for me to exit gracefully. When D day occurred we were in a building together and walked out of the door physically at the same time. We had walked in as one and as we walked out together I consciously withdrew my heart.

 

I guess you could say my subconscious had been planning to end it.

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Speakingofwhich
I don't know how any person could 'pretend' to want to fix a marriage by attending marriage counseling. Most times, those sessions are emotional, introspective, and have 'homework' for the couple. He is telling you he is hoping to start his 'exit' by going to counseling??? That doesn't make sense to me.

 

It may not make sense to you but it makes sense to some people. One of my best friend's husbands did it while he was exiting his marriage. He would go in and talk with the therapist about any number of things other than his marriage. They went through many months of this. Their divorce was final a few months ago and he's with his gf (former OW) full time now.

 

My friend assumed he went to MC so that he could say he'd tried everything including MC to save his marriage. She didn't think he made any effort toward their marriage during MC.

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Thanks for all your thoughts. I'm definitely going to think on the farewell trip.

 

Jellybean, Thank you for your very comprehensive reply. Your questions also echo what others in the thread have asked, so I'll endeavour to answer.

 

Bold one. MC to exit a relationship is not uncommon; couples do actually sometimes enter counselling with the express purpose of helping them deal with the ending. How do I know they are getting counselling, what it's for and his W's hopes? Because (and I'm not proud of this--refer my thread on this topic) I've been privy to a lot of their correspondence on this topic. They have already previously done MC for the relationship, and it didn't improve things at all. No, there will be no change in our A while they undertake counselling.

 

It is too simplistic to say he wants to stay in the family home just for the kids. He also wants to stay to support his W in parenting and that should still be a team in this; he believes that they should continue to do this together regardless of the status of their personal relationship. And she wants this too. I really don't see the big deal; I know a number of couples who have done the same thing while their kids are young and it's worked really well for them. I spent the first year of my separation from xH under one roof; as long as you don't hate each other, it's fine. So yes, no matter what he won't be leaving the family home. I don't have a problem with this at all.

 

Further to this though, he has a job that necessitates a lot of time away. For example, last year he lived in another city to his family and tried to make it home most weekends. At this point they are all in the one location, but that can only last for two to three years at most. (They won't relocate the kids while in schooling years.) My career is similar; we will more than likely never live together in a traditional sense other than when our respective careers coincide locationally. I know it's not usual, but we're both more than okay with this. We are both pretty independent and not at all traditionalists in any sense. We believe that we can be partners in life without conforming to what others believe that should entail. We will also never marry; we are both hard over on this.

 

We do not text or call while he is at home with the kids. We still email, but not with the expectation of quick turnarounds. That time is reserved for him to focus on his children and we do not distract each other.

 

Bold two. I actually gave him more than a year; we arrived at the timeline about mid last year. I know I've given him feet dragging time. However, I don't think it's unreasonable given the enormity of transitioning a family.

 

Bold three. I know it's difficult to understand why I trust him. But I do. He actually makes enormous efforts to be with me! We've spent everything from hours to more than a month together at a time. Last year alone I spent more than three months of the year with him. When we're not together, he calls me every single day (twice on workdays while he's at home, when he runs on weekends, and more when he's away). We Skype regularly as well. You're right in that I don't make extra demands for time from him, because he already gives me all he has! What I have demanded from him is that we become a real, open relationship because I can't sustain the toll of how things are now. None of us can.

 

Bold four. Yes, this is manifestly unfair to his W. This is partly why there is a timeline, as we can't continue being this unfair to all parties. He needs to take definitive action one way or another and commit. There actually was a DDay. I was overseas at the time and didn't really feel the impact. He convinced his W that it was a short EA only and promised NC. There was no change in our A. I actually think that if his W knew the real extent of the A, that it would have the opposite effect to what you say. I think his W would be so hurt and distraught/damaged that MM would immediately seek to R to minimise the impact on the kids.

 

Bold five. I didn't date before MM, and I don't intend to after if this ends. I find dating tiresome; inane small talk with strangers, people grasping for acceptance and commitment... Not my thing. I also find the attitude that you're not/can't be complete without a partner equally tiresome. I'm amazed at the single or divorced women in my cohort that run around with desperation in their eyes dating and trying to find 'the one' as if their lives depend upon it. In MM I just stumbled across someone that I actually want to share my life with. I guess if this ends it's not entirely impossible that I'll stumble across someone else I feel this way about. But I doubt it. And I won't be running around trying to find it. I'll be taking care of me.

 

Maybe Missbee has a point and that I've subconsciously chosen a partner that can't commit because I am ambivalent about traditional commitment itself :-/ Something I will reflect on.

 

Bold six. Okay, I get that everyone thinks a farewell trip would be a bad idea. I'll think about this one more carefully. We generally split the costs of our trips together; we can afford it.

 

Frankly, we can't be anymore embroiled in this that we already are. Another year isn't going to really make any difference in this respect.

 

What do I want? I want us to be able to be us out in the open. I want those I care about to know him as my partner and the man that I love (they already know him as a prior work colleague). I also want him to be the father he wants to be, and for him to continue to support the mother of his children. I don't see them as mutually exclusive at all.

 

What I DON'T want is white picket fences, to be stuck in one place or joined at the hip to the detriment of my or my partner's individuality. I want my partner to be just that, the one who shares my life (socially, sexually, intellectually, emotionally), but doesn't limit or constrain it unnecessarily. I do not want to conform to a societal norm of what a LTR looks like that I know doesn't fit me. And MM wants the same; we are philosophically very aligned in this respect about what life partnership means to us.

 

I think we'll make a great couple and do some really great things if we ever get the chance. He tells me he's optimistic... I'm still so unsure. I'll continue to plan for either outcome.

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spookysonata

It's pretty much impossible to fix a marriage when one of the parties is having a secret emotional and sexual affair. If your affair is not going to be put on hold, what is the point of MC? It seems like he's giving her false hope.

Reaaly, if he wanted to leave he would. All this seems like is a massive cake eating operation.

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Speakingofwhich
It's pretty much impossible to fix a marriage when one of the parties is having a secret emotional and sexual affair. If your affair is not going to be put on hold, what is the point of MC? It seems like he's giving her false hope.

Reaaly, if he wanted to leave he would. All this seems like is a massive cake eating operation.

 

It seems to me OP has made it clear that her MM is not trying to fix the marriage by going through MC, rather to use it as an exit strategy.

 

Also, from what OP writes I'm getting that he doesn't want to leave his family in the traditional sense of the word and she's fine with that. Judging from a traditional point of view it would seem like a massive cake eating operation, but with what I'm getting from her post, particularly the last one before your above post, it's not at all cake eating, rather it is a nontraditional crafting of an R that will suit their unique needs and perspectives of a life together.

 

OP, don't mean to answer for you, just posting what I'm getting from your explanation. If I've misinterpreted, sorry, will look forward to being corrected.

 

spookysonata, love your username!:)

Edited by Speakingofwhich
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spookysonata

The cake eating part is because the wife is being deceived. She thinks the affair is over and she has a chance at getting her husband back. All this maneuvering is massively unfair to her. Non traditional relationships don't mean lies and deception.

Speakingofwhich, thanks for the compliment. I like it too!

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Speakingofwhich
The cake eating part is because the wife is being deceived. She thinks the affair is over and she has a chance at getting her husband back. All this maneuvering is massively unfair to her. Non traditional relationships don't mean lies and deception.

Speakingofwhich, thanks for the compliment. I like it too!

 

I agree that non traditional Rs don't mean lies and deception. And that when an R becomes triangulated without disclosure it isn't fair.

 

I thought you meant, though, that the end R they want to have would be cake eating. Although it's not fair, the process to get to the end doesn't seem to fit the definition of cake eating to me, either, since it's not a stagnant situation (my understanding of cake eating includes deliberate stagnation of an R perpetrated by one of the three parties in the R of R status for purposes of the comfort of that person alone at the expense of the other two parties) and the non traditional R they are striving to end up with, will be known of by the then XW.

 

My perception of cake eating includes being in a triangular R with no goal of moving out of it. So, that's why I don't consider this cake eating, since her MM seems to be actively trying to move out of his R with his W.

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