Do Not Tell the W

[nytgirl]

Hi,

 

I'm a long time lurker here, and have decided to tell some of my story, share my advice, in hopes it will help some of the OWs on this forum. It won't be advice that resonates with everyone, but if it helps those it resonates with, then that's why I'm sharing.

 

Three and a half years ago, I met the man of my dreams, with the only problem being that he was married. It was an immediate and intense mutual attraction, and over the course of a year, our relationship grew incredibly deep. For a year, I was able -- mostly -- to keep my wits about me. I was being patient with him regarding his marriage, not wanting to rush him or ruffle feathers. He had no kids and was in a functional, but not close marriage, and he was very very confused about it. There were mitigating states all around that time in our lives -- things that were happening in his career and with his W's health that made it difficult for him to get space and clear his head to figure out what he really wanted, what he wanted to do (divorce, fix the marriage, end things with me, etc.).

 

During that time, as we were long distance, I was coping with my life alone. I'd had a lot of difficult things happen in my life, and no real support network -- he was the one I turned to. We turned to each other, actually.

 

But as time wore on, I started to break. My personal issues and the issues and stresses in his life that I was shouldering with him were breaking me down -- it was too much for me to handle with strength usually required of such things. And I wanted him with ME to help me with these things, and to give himself fully over to our relationship.

 

We started talking about it -- sanely, at first...I made him aware of my position, that I was getting so weary of waiting, and also because of my age at the time, my biological clock was ticking. I was doing the math -- a year for him to end his marriage, another year for us to build a life together, to then start trying for kids (as we both wanted), which could maybe take awhile. I got scared it was all going to take too long, I was nearing my mid-30s, and the math was putting us at my late 30s for a real life together.

 

And so I ended up issuing him an ultimatum -- TELL HER, I begged him. No, he would respond. He wasn't ready, he wasn't sure. TELL HER, I would beg him again and again. After this went in circles, I told him I would tell her myself. I reasoned she deserved to know of his deceit, she deserved all the information about her marriage in order to make her own decisions about her life, I felt he was holding her hostage -- she really was definitely clueless about his affair with me. Things heated up between he and I over this, really badly -- he didn't want me to tell, and the stresses in his life compounded with these threats of mine. He was so scared. He loved his wife -- if not as a "wife" -- than as a person and he didn't want to hurt her like this. He wanted his marriage to end for other reasons, on other terms.

 

Eventually, I backed down. I got my wits about me and I never told her. But the damage it did to he and I, 3.5 years later, is still palpable. We never stopped being in touch after my threats, and I felt all was understood and forgiven, that he understood the hard place I had been in and why I had lost my mind there for awhile (I didn't boil any bunnies, I just cried a lot and threatened). Over the course of the following year he separated from her and she never found out about he and I, and they are headed for an amicable divorce, on their own terms.

 

But here's the clincher -- my threats so ruined the dynamic between he and I, that last night, after me investing 3.5 years of my life and the "better" part of my 30s into him, he told me he could not be with me, because he can never love me like he did before the threats. That that changed me in his mind. He met someone else just before he separated -- I was aware of her but not aware of the relationship -- and they are together now. He's in love with her and very happy.

 

I feel like I ruined the best thing in my life, and so my advice to all the OWs out there is if you feel like you are losing your mind amid the stress of your affair, take a break, do anything to get your strength and mental health in line, but never ever tell the wife. That is their story together, that is his news to tell, and even the threats of it -- they will never serve you well.

 

Take it from me.

[Owl]

But here's the clincher -- my threats so ruined the dynamic between he and I, that last night, after me investing 3.5 years of my life and the "better" part of my 30s into him, he told me he could not be with me, because he can never love me like he did before the threats. That that changed me in his mind. He met someone else just before he separated -- I was aware of her but not aware of the relationship -- and they are together now. He's in love with her and very happy.

 

Does it occur to you that this is just a convenient EXCUSE for him having cheated not only on his wife, but on you as well?

 

He was ALREADY with this OOW before he told you that he couldn't/wouldn't be with you. He did to you what he did to his wife...

 

It likely had nothing to do with the pressure you were putting on him nearly as much as it had to do with his own personality.

 

 

I feel like I ruined the best thing in my life, and so my advice to all the OWs out there is if you feel like you are losing your mind amid the stress of your affair, take a break, do anything to get your strength and mental health in line, but never ever tell the wife. That is their story together, that is his news to tell, and even the threats of it -- they will never serve you well.

 

Take it from me.

 

You DIDN'T tell his wife. That's not what led to the end of your situation.

 

Consider instead what would have happened HAD you told his wife...

 

He might have chosen to end it with you, and reconcile with her.

 

Or he might have chosen to end it with her, and remain with you.

 

But instead, because the truth was never put out in the open when you were the one person he was with outside the marriage...the situation remained the same until he started yet another affair with an OOW, and ended up leaving for her instead.

 

Nothing to do with telling the wife...you never told her.

[underwater2010]

So what you are saying is that you take all the blame for him cheating on you?

 

All because you where being a feed a line of crap about how divorce was to hard for him. All because you sat by waiting...letting him know that you need more, it justifies not telling his BW the truth.

 

Hope you are in a better place now, but I don't see where your justification of hiding things further helps anyone here.

[KathyM]

Most MM don't end up with their AP. Something like 3% actually do, with only 1% lasting for the long haul. If you hadn't encouraged him to make a decision and come clean with his wife, he may have stayed in limbo, juggling both her and you for years, while your life is put on hold and your years of fertility have passed. You've already lost 3.5 years of your life with this loser. It could have been even longer if you hadn't encouraged him to make a decision. He likely would have stayed in his marriage and kept you as a side dish if there had been no pressure to make a change. I would hope and assume that you would not have been happy to stay in that position for many years to come.

[Spark1111]

Wow, I hope his new wife NEVER puts pressure on him to step up and do the right thing.

 

taking out the garbage may become an issue.

 

he'll move on to the next OW and OOW to escape being forthright and honest with anyone.

 

 

And you miss.....exactly what? being in a relationship where you could never express a real and true negative feeling? or pain? Or despair?

 

He never grew up. You dodged a bullet.

[Whisper Quiet]

You can't see it now, but you dodged a bullet. A big one.

 

How could a man who loves his wife as you described cheat on her with not one but two (or more) OW?

 

You have the gift of being free to find someone who can be fully committed to you.

[AlwaysGrowing]

This is simply a case of a person who has issues that are theirs (OM). As he never faced his own dysfunctions (cheating), and was rewarded for bad behaviours (lies, lack of ownership, manipulation) ...the OM simply used the same poor coping skills on you. Because they worked for him previously.

 

A healthy person ends one relationship before they enter into another. That is treating other people with respect. All parties.

 

OM never dealt with his issues, so he brought them into the relationship with you. And he cheated on you. The only constant in all three relationships was the OM and his total lack of regard for three woman and their lives.

 

The lesson here is NOT "do not tell the wife". The lesson is DO NOT GET INVOLVED WITH A MARRIED PERSON.

[whichwayisup]

The lesson here is NOT "do not tell the wife". The lesson is DO NOT GET INVOLVED WITH A MARRIED PERSON.

 

Or if you do, let it be JUST an affair and enjoy it for what it is. You go into an affair knowing full well that person is NOT leaving or divorcing so don't expect that to change as time goes on. It's like the FWB kind of deal - No love, common respect, and don't get serious. The minute one or both changes that, end it and move on.

[nytgirl]

Always Growing, you are of course right -- do not get involved with a married person. I truly have learned my lesson and never will again.

 

For all the other comments, maybe I am still in some kind of haze after my conversation with him last night, and so many things I didn't know coming to the light.

 

When I was trying to force him to deal with his life, his marriage, that drove him against me, especially since he hadn't thought I would be a vindictive person, and that behavior came as a shock to him. It came as a shock to me, too -- honestly. I had never thought I'd reach such a point, I wanted to think of myself as compassionate and understanding (because I am, so much) -- but I was tired of the lies, of being second best, and I wanted his wife to know what was really going on in her marriage. A huge part of me even wanted them to fix it, I didn't think the world needed another broken marriage. It's all hypocritical because I was the OW...I know that.

 

I feel like my forcing him toward looking at reality cleared the path for the Other OW -- she never had to force him to leave his marriage, because by the time he met her and had feeling develop so quickly for her, he finally realised that isn't part of a healthy marriage dynamic. So she wasn't the Other OW for very long -- definitely for parts of it while he split from his wife she was -- they were clandestine -- and the wife (ex wife I now I guess) she still doesn't know about the Other OW, but at least she knows her marriage wasn't stable or strong like she had thought it. But it hurts, because who knows what the Other OW would have done had she been in my shoes -- but in his eyes, she's calmer and more stable than I was, because she was able to wait him out. It helped that they were/are in the same city -- he could reassure her that eventually he would be out.

 

For me, right now, yes -- I feel terrible, like I ruined my chance with him. We really were so good and to think I turned someone against me in my weakness -- it's such a hard thing to know that I could have been with him had I not have done that. That statistic someone cited, I think it must be wrong or far too low, because most OW I know do end up with the AP and of course this Other OW has ended up with him now. He's in his 50s and it looks like he really wants her to be the last one he's ever unfaithful to.

 

I'm still dizzy from him telling me how he really feels about me -- that he fell out of love with me for trying to get him to tell the truth, for threatening that I would (I never did). He says he's still scared of me, that I might tell, even though I've never threatened since those days, I never would have told her and it was just a way to try to get him thinking of what he was doing to his wife. He says the trust between him and I was ruined that year and will never be repaired and it feels just devastating.

[stillafool]

NYtgirl that was just an excuse he used to break it off with you. If he were in love with you he would understand that no one wants to wait around 3.5 years with this horrible secret. How you felt was normal. He just wanted this other woman and was already seeing her before he left his wife. Don't you dare blame yourself for him breaking up with you. He used that as a very, very convenient excuse to dismiss you. Now that he is single he wanted to start off fresh with someone new.

[rumbleseat]

You are making a very simple situation much more complicated than it needs to be.

 

He cheated on his wife with you, then on you with this other woman. He knows he's a lech, but blaming you makes it a whole lot easier.

 

i wonder who he will cheat on this new woman with?

[AlwaysGrowing]

Always Growing, you are of course right -- do not get involved with a married person. I truly have learned my lesson and never will again.

 

For all the other comments, maybe I am still in some kind of haze after my conversation with him last night, and so many things I didn't know coming to the light.

 

When I was trying to force him to deal with his life, his marriage, that drove him against me, especially since he hadn't thought I would be a vindictive person, and that behavior came as a shock to him. It came as a shock to me, too -- honestly. I had never thought I'd reach such a point, I wanted to think of myself as compassionate and understanding (because I am, so much) -- but I was tired of the lies, of being second best, and I wanted his wife to know what was really going on in her marriage. A huge part of me even wanted them to fix it, I didn't think the world needed another broken marriage. It's all hypocritical because I was the OW...I know that.

 

I feel like my forcing him toward looking at reality cleared the path for the Other OW -- she never had to force him to leave his marriage, because by the time he met her and had feeling develop so quickly for her, he finally realised that isn't part of a healthy marriage dynamic. So she wasn't the Other OW for very long -- definitely for parts of it while he split from his wife she was -- they were clandestine -- and the wife (ex wife I now I guess) she still doesn't know about the Other OW, but at least she knows her marriage wasn't stable or strong like she had thought it. But it hurts, because who knows what the Other OW would have done had she been in my shoes -- but in his eyes, she's calmer and more stable than I was, because she was able to wait him out. It helped that they were/are in the same city -- he could reassure her that eventually he would be out.

 

For me, right now, yes -- I feel terrible, like I ruined my chance with him. We really were so good and to think I turned someone against me in my weakness -- it's such a hard thing to know that I could have been with him had I not have done that. That statistic someone cited, I think it must be wrong or far too low, because most OW I know do end up with the AP and of course this Other OW has ended up with him now. He's in his 50s and it looks like he really wants her to be the last one he's ever unfaithful to.

 

I'm still dizzy from him telling me how he really feels about me -- that he fell out of love with me for trying to get him to tell the truth, for threatening that I would (I never did). He says he's still scared of me, that I might tell, even though I've never threatened since those days, I never would have told her and it was just a way to try to get him thinking of what he was doing to his wife. He says the trust between him and I was ruined that year and will never be repaired and it feels just devastating.

 

 

You need to stop this negative self dialogue.

 

A healthy person respects others boundaries. You verbalized one of yours. He doesn't care about your personal boundaries/moral code/view of yourself.

 

Most would think...wanting to be honest a positive virtue to possess. OM does not. OM valued a person who allows him to lie/manipulate.....and that is the OOW.

 

Be proud, that you are not her.

[Mascara]

It was just an excuse. The reason that very few APs end up with MM after the marriage has ended is because he has way more choice than he did when he was married. A recently divorced friend told me this.

 

Imagine there are 100 women. 70 of them are not attracted to him anyway. Of the remaining 30, only 2 or 3 would be prepared to pursue an attraction with a married man.

 

Those 2 or 3 may not be his favourite out of the 30. But he's married, so there's not much he can do about it.

 

But once he's no longer married, or is about to separate... suddenly there are 28 more women who are interested in him.

 

That's how it was explained to me by someone in a similar position. I'm not a man, nor married, so I can't comment on the logic of it.

[cif]

Nope. The threats aren't what ruined your chances. MM was never into you to begin with, otherwise he would've left for you years ago. Instead he left for new GF. Don't beat yourself up over this. Nothing you could've or could've not done would change the end result. On the bright side you dodged a major bullet as this man is a serial cheater.

 

Better advice would be do not date married men and waste precious years on them. Good luck in the future.

[Quiet Storm]

-- it's such a hard thing to know that I could have been with him had I not have done that.

 

You don't know that, though. You are still believing what a liar is telling you.

 

If you had not have done that, you probably would still not be with him.

 

It is not easy for MM to find a woman that is willing to be the OW. I've told OW on here before- MM is not with you because he thinks you are special, he is with you because you are willing to be the OW.

 

For whatever reason, he decided that he did not want a relationship with you outside of the affair. A divorcing man has many more women to choose from. He no longer had to find a woman willing to be the OW, so he had more options. Or maybe he could tell this new OW was serious about not being the OW, and he knew he had to act or lose her. Some women will not tolerate being with a MM. If he knew she was not going to put up with it, it may have prompted him to act sooner.

 

Another common scenario is that your emotional support gave him the boost he needed to leave the marriage.

 

He had plenty of time to leave his wife to be with you & he didn't. It is not uncommon for divorcing men to leave OW, too. They often want a fresh start, a new dynamic. You were part of the triangle- the affair dynamic. The attraction to you was interwoven in his mind with the dysfunction in the marriage. When you removed the marriage from the dynamic, the whole thing fell apart because it was based on that triangulation between you, MM, wife.

 

Stories like yours are what prompt me to post on OW board, because I really hate to see a woman waste precious years on a MM. It makes me sad to see OW's dreams of being a mom get buried under all MM's issues. Most affairs don't progress to marriage & kids. It is a huge risk to take, especially if you want to have kids.

 

However, if MM truly loved you, he would understand the threats. Here is a man that you put your life on hold for, that had you waiting for years. He can't expect you to be patient forever. He knows this. He is just using that as an excuse, so that he doesn't have to feel bad about leading you on.

 

I think he feels guilty. He benefited from you while married, and you spent precious time waiting for him. He led you to believe that waiting would pay off for you, and it didn't. Unless he is sociopathic, he feels ashamed of this. In order to absolve himself of the guilt, he is blaming you.

 

But don't blame yourself for the threats. The problem here was that he was married- not that you threatened to tell.

Edited October 22, 2013 by Quiet Storm

[Mascara]

"It is not easy for MM to find a woman that is willing to be the OW. I've told OW on here before- MM is not with you because he thinks you are special, he is with you because you are willing to be the OW."

 

This. I wish more women wide accept this. There are a few who meet the woman of their dreams of course, but then they rapidly put the wheels in motion to be with her.

[whereamigoing]

I really don't see that your "threats" had anything with Hus decision to move on from his relationship with you. I also think you are better off without him. If your relationship wasn't able to withstand that road bump it never would have stranded the trials that come with having children.

 

Also...lots of women are conceiving and happily beginning to parent well into their 30s and 40s...don't let your biological clock run your life.

[cif]

and it looks like he really wants her to be the last one he's ever unfaithful to.

 

 

how do you know this?

 

he fell out of love with me for trying to get him to tell the truth

 

bull. what kind of person would be angry at you for trying to get him to do the right thing?

 

He says the trust between him and I was ruined that year and will never be repaired

 

 

if his trust in you was "ruined that year" why did he lead you on for YEARS later?

[Owl]

ANd I think you make a very complex situation very simple

 

That doesn't make this simple summary wrong or inaccurate.

[nytgirl]

I have just been going by what he told me, and what he told me is that what made him "fall out of love" (his words) with me, was the fact that I threatened the marriage. He told me that's unethical, to expose someone when you knowingly got in a relationship with a MM. Which is right, I suppose....I don't know? When we got together, it was all we talked about, I'm not delusional -- we wanted a future together. I pressed the issue after a year (when?? I would ask him) and then because I was so in love with him and tired, confused, I said maybe I should tell her myself (I said that a number of times). He took it to mean I was a monster, not the nice person he fell for (honestly outside of this situation, I'm so nice -- I feel like I was in the Twilight Zone in this affair, and I wanted it to stop being an affair, so badly, I just wanted a real relationship.

 

Now I am just hurting the way anyone hurts after a breakup, and I'm in disbelief about the new woman and his whole situation. He's essentially living with her, even though he was still working on his marriage in August.

 

And just to clarify, my relationship with him since the days where I was pressing him, has not at all been sexual, I took that off the table when it was clear he wasn't leaving his wife -- since then, he had never told me about this other other woman, we'd been keeping in touch though and essentially I've just been his ear as he went through his separation -- supportive, compassionate, and yes....waiting for him (which he knew).

[nytgirl]

if his trust in you was "ruined that year" why did he lead you on for YEARS later?

 

CIF I have no idea. He says he felt like if he took his love away, I would tell his wife about him and I, as well as his new other woman/gf.

 

Since the days of my threats, three years ago, I never once had uttered anything like it again. We were in touch all this time b/c to my understanding we still loved each other and we were waiting until his divorce went through.

[Owl]

Since the days of my threats, three years ago, I never once had uttered anything like it again. We were in touch all this time b/c to my understanding we still loved each other and we were waiting until his divorce went through.

 

And yet he lied to you, just as he lied to his wife. You waited on him for three years while he decieved you and had yet another affair in which he betrayed your trust as well as his wife's.

 

How does that actually have anything to do with your threats, really?

 

It doesn't. It has everything to do with HIS CHOICES.

[cif]

I have just been going by what he told me, and what he told me is that what made him "fall out of love" (his words) with me, was the fact that I threatened the marriage. He told me that's unethical, to expose someone when you knowingly got in a relationship with a MM. Which is right, I suppose....I don't know? When we got together, it was all we talked about, I'm not delusional -- we wanted a future together. I pressed the issue after a year (when?? I would ask him) and then because I was so in love with him and tired, confused, I said maybe I should tell her myself (I said that a number of times). He took it to mean I was a monster, not the nice person he fell for (honestly outside of this situation, I'm so nice -- I feel like I was in the Twilight Zone in this affair, and I wanted it to stop being an affair, so badly, I just wanted a real relationship.

 

Now I am just hurting the way anyone hurts after a breakup, and I'm in disbelief about the new woman and his whole situation. He's essentially living with her, even though he was still working on his marriage in August.

 

And just to clarify, my relationship with him since the days where I was pressing him, has not at all been sexual, I took that off the table when it was clear he wasn't leaving his wife -- since then, he had never told me about this other other woman, we'd been keeping in touch though and essentially I've just been his ear as he went through his separation -- supportive, compassionate, and yes....waiting for him (which he knew).

 

Should he really be giving you a lesson in ethics, though?

 

if his trust in you was "ruined that year" why did he lead you on for YEARS later

 

CIF I have no idea. He says he felt like if he took his love away, I would tell his wife about him and I, as well as his new other woman gf.

 

Since the days of my threats, three years ago, I never once had uttered anything like it again. We were in touch all this time b/c to my understanding we still loved each other and we were waiting until his divorce went through.

 

I'm just trying to tell you not to blame yourself for the B/U.. that's on him. Getting involved with MM is on you however. The sooner you put this behind you and move on the sooner you can find a real R.

Edited October 22, 2013 by cif

[Owl]

Should he really be giving you a lesson in ethics, though?

 

 

 

I'm just trying to tell you not to blame yourself for the B/U.. that's on him. Getting involved with MM is on you however. The sooner you put this behind you and move on the sooner you can find a real R.

 

I've got to agree with CIF on this. How can he call you on ethics, given his actions????

 

If you want to blame yourself...that's fine, go ahead and blame yourself. I think most of us agree that you weren't wrong for your choice to try to get things resolved in a more timely fashion. And at the end of the day, his wife truly SHOULD have been made aware of all of this going on behind her back.

 

He was angry because you threatened his cake eating...not because you acted in an unethical fashion by wanting him to tell his wife.

[imperfectangel]

Anyone else think there is no OOW and he's never separated from his wife?