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time and space - and clich�es we throw at each other


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Hello there.

 

I disappeared for a while, which was really needed. I wanted to drop off the boards for a while because the constant claims of how OW/OM/BS/WS are motivated and how everything is a cliche become a really negative influence for me. It started to feel like my life became a game for others, where the winner predicts downfall correctly. When I first came here I didn't know a FOW from a POW, and BS only had one meaning which had nothing to do with spouses. For a while I got really into the lingo, and noticed that my own thoughts were being taken over by a whole other vocabulary and way of thinking which goes like this - everyone who has an affair is damaged, MM in affairs never leave their wives, OW are the most selfish people in the world, cake eaters, narcissists, codependents, self esteem issues - so many psychological terms banded about, too, and often completely inaccurately. Maybe it's just part and parcel of internet forums that people feel the need to make generic categories out of very varied situations, personalities and motivators. Maybe for some people it helps to try to sum up their painful situations into predictive formulae. I mean - by thinking about OW vs BS, reducing complex and varied people and situations to these two letter representatives, with some subcategories which may have minor, temporary influence over what are stated as inevitable long term trajectories - we depersonalize the third person into some generic category. By stating these categories of people are all motivated by some predictor/behave in a similar way, and place them on a predictable path, we somehow control them. What is predictable puts the predictor in control. Those who like to predict the most - you know who you are - does it help you feel more in control of your real life?

 

Anyway, apart from that, my AP and I stopped any physical relationship some time ago. We agreed about it, it was very hard, I encouraged him to go to counselling, also with his wife, and to be sure about what he wanted. I told him that I doubted we would get back together even if he did get divorced (mostly because I needed him to feel I was gone). We work together. Every day. You can see my story in other posts. So far, we have managed to work together, remain friendly, and resist the urge (and they are there - and strong) to go any further. Now, divorce proceedings are underway. Papers are signed. He's working very hard on seeing his kids through this and he seems to be getting it right with them. We have not talked about us in any way since ending the affair. Last thing he said on the matter was that he wanted a future with me, but understood that to have this he had to focus on the kids, get through the divorce, and find the best way for everyone. I truly want his stbxw to be happy, his kids to be happy, him to be happy, and me to be happy. I don't know if we will be together in the end but I know that he cares deeply about me, and about his kids, and about his wife, despite the end of their marriage. Neither of us have tried to disturb the other's space to take this time, although we see each other daily and there are plenty of opportunities. It hurts like hell. Neither of us have ever been unfaithful to anyone before. So, sometimes, probably quite often actually, people in crappy marriages find others who they are better suited to, have an affair, without either person being a cake eating narcissist, dependent external validation addict, or general A55H0LE. It happens. Just like relationships before marriage, marriages can be a bad idea, the fact that your married rather than dating means it's legally more difficult to end. Being a BS is very hard - I don't want to diminish that. Being in a bad marriage is very hard, too. Harder than being alone, I would think. So is Being an OW or a WS is very hard. They are all difficult - *especially* if you are NOT an essentially selfish person and you tend to stay awake nights worrying about how your actions effect other's lives and what the right thing to do is, given your personal situation and the individuals involved.

 

At this point in a long and difficult process, I remember a few people here on LS who have really helped me get to the point where I could see that stopping the affair (at least until the situation changed) was the way forward and I'm deeply grateful for that. Those people were not angry and didn't try to reduce my story, my life, to a predictive formula. One was a BS, some were WS, some OW. There were many more who posted only about generics - were not interested in me or my story but rather only about upholding preordained categories and forcing them to fit every life situation communicated here. I guess that somehow helps them - or rather, gives them some satisfaction. It was a very negative influence for me. I think the forum itself became as much of a negative influence on me as the affair itself - by stepping away and removing the lingo and preconceptions that were lingering in my head all day, I could think clearly again and judge the situation based on the individuals in it, rather than the category of OW portrayed by several regular posters here. The more I read about OW, the less I recognised myself as one. I know I am not a dependent person seeking external validation. It's just not me. I needed to step away to remember that. It turned out to be much healthier. I wonder if any others reading can relate to this.

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JustAReformedGirl
Hello there.

 

I disappeared for a while, which was really needed. I wanted to drop off the boards for a while because the constant claims of how OW/OM/BS/WS are motivated and how everything is a cliche become a really negative influence for me. It started to feel like my life became a game for others, where the winner predicts downfall correctly. When I first came here I didn't know a FOW from a POW, and BS only had one meaning which had nothing to do with spouses.

 

I only joined LS maybe 2 or 2 weeks ago, tops. I can already see what you mean. I knew nothing of these titles, and I'll admit, there are times where it seems that some of the posters assume similar situations equal identical. Fortunately there are those who don't lump us all together.

 

For a while I got really into the lingo, and noticed that my own

thoughts were being taken over by a whole other vocabulary and way of

thinking which goes like this - everyone who has an affair is damaged, MM

in affairs never leave their wives, OW are the most selfish people in the

world, cake eaters, narcissists, codependents, self esteem issues - so

many psychological terms banded about, too, and often completely

inaccurately.

 

I think it's a forum-based site characteristic in general. As experienced and knowledgeable as people on here may be, I think sometimes they forget that it isn't synonymous with being a professional psychologist. That isn't to say they don't make some very good points-but perhaps they have become desensitized, and have stopped seeing these situations as individual.

 

 

Maybe it's just part and parcel of internet forums that people feel

the need to make generic categories out of very varied situations,

personalities and motivators.

 

I've been on many a forum-based site; it is. I think it originally serves the purpose of simplifying things when one writes it out, but like a lot of things that were intended to be helpful, it wound up backfiring a little.

 

Maybe for some people it helps to try to sum up their painful

situations into predictive formulae. I mean - by thinking about OW vs BS,

reducing complex and varied people and situations to these two letter

representatives, with some subcategories which may have minor, temporary

influence over what are stated as inevitable long term trajectories - we

depersonalize the third person into some generic category.

 

Those who like to predict the most - you know who you are - does it

help you feel more in control of your real life?

 

I'm willing to bet for a lot of them? Yes, it probably does. I don't even mean this in a snide way in regards to those who do this; in fact, I am sympathetic to the feeling.

 

It hurts like hell. Neither of us have ever been unfaithful to anyone

before.

 

I can empathize with this, all too well. I too was never unfaithful before. Now apparently I'm not but a walking cliché.

 

 

So, sometimes, probably quite often actually, people in crappy

marriages find others who they are better suited to, have an affair,

without either person being a cake eating narcissist, dependent external

validation addict, or general A55H0LE. It happens. Just like relationships

before marriage, marriages can be a bad idea, the fact that your married

rather than dating means it's legally more difficult to end.

 

I think it's easier for some people to assume all of those negative attributes, rather than acknowledge the emotional devastation that occurs for the people participating. Yes, cheating is a choice; it doesn't automatically make one a narcissistic a-hole. Sadly, people like to generalize. I get it, when they speak from a hurtful place. In fact, I have felt terrible for those people, knowing that. It doesn't change the fact that, no matter which title you fall under, you're likely hurting too, though.

 

 

 

 

So is Being an OW or a WS is very hard. They are all difficult -

*especially* if you are NOT an essentially selfish person and you tend to

stay awake nights worrying about how your actions effect other's lives and

what the right thing to do is, given your personal situation and the

individuals involved.

 

I have insomnia at the best of times-but with things of this nature on my mind? I can certainly say my insomnia became more than just a few nights a week, so I can relate to what you're saying.

 

At this point in a long and difficult process, I remember a few people here on

LS who have really helped me get to the point where I could see that stopping

the affair (at least until the situation changed) was the way forward and I'm

deeply grateful for that. Those people were not angry and didn't try to reduce

my story, my life, to a predictive formula. One was a BS, some were WS, some

OW.

 

Thankfully, I have encountered people of this nature as well-all under those same labels as well. I found it particularly touching when BSs offered advice and support-even in the form of "tough love", so to speak. It showed that, despite their pain in their own personal situations, they were more than capable of objective and insightful perspective.

 

 

There were many more who posted only about generics - were not

interested in me or my story but rather only about upholding preordained

categories and forcing them to fit every life situation communicated here.

I guess that somehow helps them - or rather, gives them some satisfaction.

 

These ones still exist. I'm ashamed to admit it, but I've allowed myself to be emotionally baited by some of their posts. Ultimately though, I'm coming to realize that they A) Are the voices of experience from still raw wounds or B) The voices of little experience whom carry preconceived notions, and need an ego-boost of their own.

 

by stepping away and removing the lingo and preconceptions that were

lingering in my head all day, I could think clearly again and judge the

situation based on the individuals in it, rather than the category of OW

portrayed by several regular posters here.

 

I've had this same discussion in my own head, after many nights where my dreams were filled with conversations and threads on here. I had to remind myself that while there are many who have insight and helpful perspectives, my situation is still that-my situation, with my individual people, who are not the same as the ones in So-and So's thread, no matter how similar.

 

 

The more I read about OW, the less I recognised myself as one. I know I am not a dependent person seeking external validation. It's just not me. I needed to step away to remember that. It turned out to be much healthier. I wonder if any others reading can relate to this.

 

It's important that you came to this revelation. That way, you can still seek out information and input on any situations you face, but without taking everything said by others too literally. You are you, no matter what label you appear to fit under. :)

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Anna-Belle

The best thing I've ever done relationship-wise was to not listen to the generic "Go NC"-advice which is so abundant on this forum. Despite all the loud voices on here telling me to end the EMR I stayed. I stayed for seven years and enjoyed the relationship, always wanting more though, and now I am getting more. My former MM is now a separated man well on his way to divorce.

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I agree and I didn't post here during my affair as I didn't feel it was the right environment for me. So many are looking to point out every possible negative moment, which in all relationships they do happen, and not allow me to have an unbiased and neutral environment to work through my thoughts, emotions, and feelings and see patterns without assumptions thrown in.

 

I post here now because I am not in an emotional state nor do I care what others think. :laugh: I learned so much from the affair, I hope to give back to those that are struggling, I hope to celebrate with those that are celebrating, and I hope to be a friend. Stereotypes and generalizations are just a form of lazy thinking, sometimes they may be true but some times they are not. I like to take the time and energy to give each story focus and attention based on its own merits and not assume (because you know what assuming does :p ).

 

I learned so much from the affair, I have to say I far enjoyed the affair more than the S/D period and then having a long distance relationship.

 

Good to see you again Henni. :)

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waterwoman

I think that LS can ne problematic from both sides. As a BS I have been hurt time and time again from things I had read on here, and on the Infidelity forum. Because I am an individual, H is an individual, OW was an individual - blanket judgements don't really apply to all of us. Much advice has been helpful and there has been lots of support but it had to be taken with a pinch of salt.

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Henni, I don't think time and space is a cliche. It worked and was true for me.

 

FBS here and I too, took frequent LS breaks because I too couldn't deal with much that was thrown at me.

 

That is NOT reserved for OW or OM alone, folks.

 

Many Of the comments I least wanted or was ready to hear during those early days of devastation, have since proved to be some of the ones that galvanized me to anger and then action in hindsight.

 

you sound strong and steady and I wish you well on your continued path.

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Marvelous post. I don't think every situation is the same, though certainly if you can weed through the bits of judgement, there is valuable insight to be had.

 

I haven't followed things to a tee, though I'm going to try to go complete NC for awhile. I think that its right for me. That being said, I also agree that you have to back away from all of this sometimes to see your own situation for what it is...in my case, it won't go anywhere (at least not now), and I'm probably only making things harder for my xMw who admitted to me yesterday she had been going to MC for 2 months but still loves me. She said she didn't need to quit talking to me because it wouldn't change her feelings. I think she's cake eating. She doesn't realize it does hurt her chances of succeeding in MC, and furthermore it leaves me with a false and unending hope.

 

I was soaking up so much from her that I started playing what ifs and mind games even worse. I kept thinking the things I read would or will play out in my life and it caused anxiety. So it IS important to take a step back. Go to IC and analyze and evaluate your own choices and future separate from this world. This site does give me some comfort, but it has also caused me anxiety at moments.

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The more I read about OW, the less I recognised myself as one. I know I am not a dependent person seeking external validation. It's just not me. I needed to step away to remember that. It turned out to be much healthier. I wonder if any others reading can relate to this.

 

To that, and to much else in your post.

 

I need, and take, breaks too. There's only so much you can read of hostile, erroneous caricature before you start responding, at first calmly but firmly, pointing out that not all As are the way some people's agendas drive them to portray, that not all MM are philandering scumbags using OW as masturbation aids, that not all BW are angels who are without any culpability, that not all OW have self-esteem issues / personality disorders / a complete lack of options...

 

But after tsunami after tsunami of the same cookie-cutter responses, eventually calm and firm starts to fray, and the nastiness in some of the posts starts to provoke responses in kind, and tone becomes defensive instead of simply shaking he dust from your shoes and walking away. Most OWs have been there, I'm sure, especially those who have not buckled to the haranguing and who have not allowed themselves to be bullied into doubting their R, or rejecting it, and drinking the Kool-Aid of self-loathing handed out to them.

 

Taking a break can be healing, allowing you to reconnect to your R as it really is, to recognise yourself for who you really are rather than the twisted caricature shown back at you by those whose agendas cannot allow you to be yourself.

 

You sound as thou you're in a good place, which is great. I hope things continue to work out well for you, however that translates in terms of outcome. It's great to see you back!

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JustAReformedGirl

It's refreshing to see so many people who think/feel the same. Only a few days after joining, I definitely experienced a great deal of the "identity crisis" feeling that most others have referred to in their own way.

 

I'll admit, I started handing out cookie-cutter responses, too. I hadn't meant to, but between being thoroughly ticked by people telling me they know who I am better than I do (not a chance), and allowing their perspective to over-ride my own, it happened.

 

Much to my chagrin; I've never let someone else do my thinking for me; the fact that I did here makes me pissed at myself. Well, no more.

 

Oh, and my first post was supposed to say 2 or 3 weeks. Damn typos brought on by fatigue. :o

 

I am thankful, of course, to those who have given me insight, like you OP. If not for them, I may have bailed on this site entirely.

 

I had to remind myself I'm not one to give in so easily, and that running away wouldn't solve anything. But your need for a break is very understandable.

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Henni, I don't think time and space is a cliche. It worked and was true for me.

 

Hi Spark, I didn't mean to suggest time and space is a cliche, just looking for a succinct title for the post, the cliche's we throw are rather the stereotypes which, strangely to me, seem very important to maintain for some posters. I find that interesting, but also somehow unhealthy - because it is an illusion. I don't think there are any predictive equations for relationships and dynamics based on a marriage certificate. Predictive equations based on personalities involved and situations, maybe, but certainly not based on something as trite and simplified as OW/OM/AP/BS/XMM and all the other arbitrary categories suggested as appropriate predictors of outcomes.

 

It is really nice to read all of your support and perspectives on this. The welcomes back mean a lot and I was not expecting it. Among many finger pointing posts, there are these gems...who rise above their own hurt with grace. Anyone who can do this is on the 'side' I want to be on. Any posters who want to draw battle lines and join a camp based on which side of the AP/BS/WS they fit may do so of course, but I will put them all in a new category - CC's if it's not already taken - carbon copies, or cookie cutters. It means, someone whose struggle with their own hurt is causing them to have anger and prejudice against a stranger which would be more appropriately directed at real people in their own lives.

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Praying4Peace

Henni,

 

Loved your post. I am not the type to use blanket generalizations, and even though they have a place in the grand scheme of things, it gets a little ridiculous here.

 

So, you aren't alone!!

 

Also- good luck to you and your 'friend' (Im not calling him by that label!). I mean that sincerely.

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Henni,

 

Loved your post. I am not the type to use blanket generalizations, and even though they have a place in the grand scheme of things, it gets a little ridiculous here.

 

So, you aren't alone!!

 

Also- good luck to you and your 'friend' (Im not calling him by that label!). I mean that sincerely.

 

Thank you p4p, good luck to all of us, really.

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Hi Henni, you breath of fresh air, you...I think as LAL stated above, it is all FEAR.

 

.......if an OW wants to fight for her man, she should (if he's giving you the signal) unrepentantly tear him away from his family and start life anew. But if you're not gonna fight all-out for your man, be prepared that the BS will, in fact, fight for her man and her family unit. And to disarm such a potentially powerful Warrior by pulling the wool over her eyes for a long, long time, with the help of a traitor (her H) feeding her lies, is just very very dishonorable warfare, in my book.

 

A part of me hates my MM's W, but I can feel nothing but sorrow for her. I have been her. I have been lied to like her and rejected like her too. I have also pined away in unrequited love, never knowing IF I even had that love to be pining over.

 

And this branch of love I feel for the BS is called empathy. My empathy for her won out over my love for MM.

 

I'm not gonna lie, if her H had more for me than just obsessive "love," I might've fought for him. But it was her lack of bitterness and cliche-wielding that won me over, got me to (eventually) back away, and she won the triangle that way. My hat's off to her, really.

 

Still hate her, though ;)

 

Hi RR, and thanks for your post. In my situation, there was no love in the marriage, I think if I knew she loved him, it would be a very different situation and I would not have behaved the same way. I do agree that fear is the most common source of prejudice.

 

I don't want to fight with anyone. I will not fight to pull a man away from another - because it would be, for me, an empty win. If he doesn't come to me fully of his own accord then I would doubt his intentions and his backbone for ever. I don't want him to fight with someone else for me either, I want the man I am with to take his balls in his hands like a big boy and sort out his life in a respectful way to the mother of his children, and work as hard as required, swallowing his own hurt where it is the best thing for his children and his future, for a situation which would mean we can be together without conflict. For me, that is love. The rest is simply drama.

 

*I realise on the reread that 'taking ones balls in the hands like a big boy' may be rather regional phrasiology! :-D Note this does not imply any form of autoerotic stimulation, but rather just manning up in general.

Edited by Henni
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hi henni, glad you decided to come back and help out others get out of a situation they don't want to be in.

 

i do agree with you that giving a cold, general statement - actually, almost a 'diagnosis' - isn't always helpful. yes, we are all different. yes, every situation is different. but there are some commonalities and people who have been around these boards for a while tend to see the situation as one of many with the same light-motif. i've only been on LS for a few months and when i see someone's first post about being in an affair and in pain... that's the initial reaction i get. so i can completely understand those who have been here for years.

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JustAReformedGirl

 

It is really nice to read all of your support and perspectives on this. The welcomes back mean a lot and I was not expecting it. Among many finger pointing posts, there are these gems...who rise above their own hurt with grace. Anyone who can do this is on the 'side' I want to be on. Any posters who want to draw battle lines and join a camp based on which side of the AP/BS/WS they fit may do so of course, but I will put them all in a new category - CC's if it's not already taken - carbon copies, or cookie cutters. It means, someone whose struggle with their own hurt is causing them to have anger and prejudice against a stranger which would be more appropriately directed at real people in their own lives.

 

The part I bolded is just perfect! Simply, absolutely perfect. You hit the nail on the head, and vocalized what I couldn't put into words, myself. I applaud this. :)

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There were a few OW or FOW who admited to becoming suicidal at some point from the things that were said to them around here. People hide behind the anonimity, and don't realize the effect they can have on people. I'm pretty sure than most would brush it off anyway as "she deserves it for being imoral", or not wanting to acknolege they had anything to do with it.

 

There's a need to reform any OW coming through the gates. I pushed back, and was finally left alone, but it was brutal at the time. I didn't want to deal with that. I didn't have the energy to deal with that, but I had to. Unfortunatelly, for some OW in pain, the whole lingo and doctrine is as easy to sell as religion to a desperate soul. I've always gotten a rash when I read about the fog.

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I've always gotten a rash when I read about the fog.

 

Only a rash? You got off lightly! It provokes anaphylactic shock in me. The assault on intellectual rigour, for a start.... Oh!

 

On the first point, about people becoming suicidal, yes, I'm sure most of us (who are not advice batterers) have received PMs from other members taking the discussion offline, seeking advice outside of the forum so that they do not have to subject themselves to more of what its providers consider "tough love" but its recipients consider abusive. And yes, many of those members have been driven to really dark places because of that. It's pretty sad that it's needed the firm hand of moderation to stop the worst excesses of that, that people's own inner sense of decency does not prevent them fro treating people they see and interact with, so poorly. (But props to the mods for their recent actions to curb this - credit where it's due!)

 

Henni, your post seems to have found resonance with so many of us! Thank you for posting it, and well done on mustering the strength to reach a space of positivity.

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hi henni, glad you decided to come back and help out others get out of a situation they don't want to be in.

 

Thank you Lillyfree, but I'm not here to get anyone out of anything. I am here to give and receive support to people who find themselves in a relationship with someone who is currently attached either legally or romantically, as they try to decide how to cope with it.

 

i do agree with you that giving a cold, general statement - actually, almost a 'diagnosis' - isn't always helpful. yes, we are all different. yes, every situation is different. but there are some commonalities and people who have been around these boards for a while tend to see the situation as one of many with the same light-motif.

 

There are many commonalities, I totally agree, I just don't agree with assumming these AP/WS/OW/OM categories are the most useful or most generic commonalities, nor do I think that they are a good basis for predicting the outcome of a complex situation between three (or more...) individuals. I think there are far more important and constructive commonalities to draw, which don't impose a moral high ground cookie-cutter style, such as, we are all trying to figure out our romantic lives, many of us are hurt or are afraid of hurting others romantically, there is a group who like to predict outcomes of stranger's romantic lives, or to give instructions on how to avoid mental breakdown, or how to be a moral person. There are those who are trying to understand and express their or their partner's motivations and feelings by making connections with others who have behaved as they or their partner did romantically. For some this is a serious place and an important part of their emotional lives. For others it's entertaining. These are far more important commonalities, IMO.

 

i've only been on LS for a few months and when i see someone's first post about being in an affair and in pain... that's the initial reaction i get. so i can completely understand those who have been here for years.

 

I've been here a fair while now, and I've never heard two stories that were the same. I have noticed a similarity between posts that predict the outcome of all stories and individuals using only the basic categories of AP/OW/BS/WS as predictors. People relate and find commonalities in their own stories, that happens of course. People you might not expect relate, and this often seems to be the most helpful and supportive kind of communication. There's a thread by a woman who went through, and survived with grace, many years of infidelity from a husband she loved, and wants to open the doors to people involved with married people, to be a sounding board for each other, because it's rarely possible in real life. That's an amazing thread. No two situations are treated or reacted to in the same way by any of those who posted. That's why I'm here - not to convince people to behave the way I think they should or to tell them what will happen to them or their partners in the future, but to give and receive support, under the assumption that everyone has their **** to deal with, every heart breaks, most people are essentially good people but life can make you bitter and twisted unless you can maintain your rational thinking, open heart and integrity, and forgive yourself and others for their failures.

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i can see your point henni - i might not agree with everything you said but arguing about opinions is futile.

 

and that's the point i was trying to make in my previous post, however clumsily - for some the approach you and some other posters are so adamantly against actually works. it did for me, for one. i might not agree with everything i read here, i might not have agreed with all the replies i got to my posts/threads... but that is the nature of public forums. people ARE actually allowed (within reason) to post their opinion and the others ARE allowed to agree or disagree with it. read, process what you've read, take in what works for you and disregard what doesn't. you know, think for yourself instead of crying about how mean some people are.

 

and i'm sorry, but regarding people that became suicidal over responses they got here - if that's how fragile you are then being in an affair is just the start of your issues. i mean, wanting to end your life over what someone on the internet said?! please.

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i can see your point henni - i might not agree with everything you said but arguing about opinions is futile.

 

and that's the point i was trying to make in my previous post, however clumsily - for some the approach you and some other posters are so adamantly against actually works. it did for me, for one. i might not agree with everything i read here, i might not have agreed with all the replies i got to my posts/threads... but that is the nature of public forums. people ARE actually allowed (within reason) to post their opinion and the others ARE allowed to agree or disagree with it. read, process what you've read, take in what works for you and disregard what doesn't. you know, think for yourself instead of crying about how mean some people are.

 

and i'm sorry, but regarding people that became suicidal over responses they got here - if that's how fragile you are then being in an affair is just the start of your issues. i mean, wanting to end your life over what someone on the internet said?! please.

 

Unfortunately, yes, there are people who are fragile enough to be hugely effected by internet bullying, to the point of severe mental anguish. I am not - I may be effected but I also have people to talk to in real life who know me and know I am not this caricature person looking for external validation from a cake eating sociopathic man-child who's pretending his wife is a 6itch so he can carry out his masterplan to shag all around him yadda yadda yadda. Many people who use such a forum will not be able to or will be afraid to talk to people in real life about their situation and so the reactions they get here are all they have. People can of course say what they want, and moderators can moderate as they like.

 

My point was that situations are oversimplified and characterised to the point of ridiculousness, for the purposes of maintaining a moral divide. My own independent thoughts on that are that it clouds the really important commonalities between people i've mentioned above, with a rather clumsy and arguably less important label than the actual story and individuals involved. There's another thread with lots of action right now, where if you read through the first 30 or so posts, you can see how often, things like circumstances, history, characters and personalities important to the story barely come out at all, but there's LOADS of mails predicting what should be done, what the MM's motivations are and how the story will end, and how the poster is immoral, really just based on less than five or so general sentences from the poster, who eventually gives up.

 

My point in my 'crying' as you put it (i'm not actually crying at all - I feel quite good at the moment actually) is to say that those who like to predict outcomes of strangers' romantic lives here, along cookie-cutter lines, treating all stories as carbon copies with inevitable outcomes, are clouding the really important aspects of the story with rather trite categories, and those caricatures seem to be at the root of all conversations that end in angry rants that get removed as abusive. So, I think there's a better way, and I'm aligning myself in a category of people who don't see all stories as the same, who agree that there are more important issues at play if you want to predict outcome, and who, despite their own hurt, are able to keep an open mind about people as they come in the door and hear their story before assuming the moral highground. BS, WS, and AP most welcome to identify with this group. I will think about and refer to people who can't do that as a group too, and i'll think about their need to predict the outcomes of strangers romantic lives in the same way with the same words over and over ad nauseum, without stopping to hear the full story, as belonging in a category with more important commonalities than these labels and cliche's they like to use.

Edited by Henni
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justwordswithfriends

I am new to this forum, this thread and to being an OW. I have been humbled by the honesty and openness here. I, for the first time since my emotional affair (what 2 letters am I suppose to call it??) with a married man...OOPS..MM, began a few months ago, I don't feel alone. I am not a selfish person by nature. I'm not an an idiot. I know this is selfish behavior. We both met playing a harmless, platonic game of Words with Friends. He told me upfront he was married. Iddon't really think one way or the other. I was indifferent. we had absolutely no flirting, no suggestive texting, or anything inappropriate. We developed an incredible friendship. I wasn't going to the game in anticipation to see if he had played or not. When things changed is when we took it off the game and began texting. We exchanged pix. When I got his pic I had the oddest sensation of familiarity. It was like, YES, of course. this is YOU! I knew I was developing feelings. I didn't know how he felt. I know we had such a great connection. One day he said I was amazing and would make some man very happy. I said thanks,but here I sit waiting anxiously for your texts..SEND!! I couldn't believe I sent.that. I immediately sent another apologizing and I had no right. But, he sent one saying he felt for me the same, too. From that point, we've been off to the races emotionally!! We both have said we're in love with each other. He's been married 29 yrs & swears this has never happened. I believe him. We both have been very conflicted. He says he has a good marriage and is confused as to how this could happen. He swears he's deeply in love with me but also states he has no intention of leaving his wife because she's done nothing wrong. I am so confused. I know I should let him go, but feel we are TRULY meant to be together. Can I PLEASE have your experience, strength, and hope for a newbie. I am not a child. I'm 50 -yrs old!! Yet, I feel like a toddler learning to walk. Thanks for letting me get all this out!! I am good person. I don't want to hurt anyone. I know it's going to be me. I just know it. :(

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I am new to this forum, this thread and to being an OW. I have been humbled by the honesty and openness here. I, for the first time since my emotional affair (what 2 letters am I suppose to call it??) with a married man...OOPS..MM, began a few months ago, I don't feel alone. I am not a selfish person by nature. I'm not an an idiot. I know this is selfish behavior. We both met playing a harmless, platonic game of Words with Friends. He told me upfront he was married. Iddon't really think one way or the other. I was indifferent. we had absolutely no flirting, no suggestive texting, or anything inappropriate. We developed an incredible friendship. I wasn't going to the game in anticipation to see if he had played or not. When things changed is when we took it off the game and began texting. We exchanged pix. When I got his pic I had the oddest sensation of familiarity. It was like, YES, of course. this is YOU! I knew I was developing feelings. I didn't know how he felt. I know we had such a great connection. One day he said I was amazing and would make some man very happy. I said thanks,but here I sit waiting anxiously for your texts..SEND!! I couldn't believe I sent.that. I immediately sent another apologizing and I had no right. But, he sent one saying he felt for me the same, too. From that point, we've been off to the races emotionally!! We both have said we're in love with each other. He's been married 29 yrs & swears this has never happened. I believe him. We both have been very conflicted. He says he has a good marriage and is confused as to how this could happen. He swears he's deeply in love with me but also states he has no intention of leaving his wife because she's done nothing wrong. I am so confused. I know I should let him go, but feel we are TRULY meant to be together. Can I PLEASE have your experience, strength, and hope for a newbie. I am not a child. I'm 50 -yrs old!! Yet, I feel like a toddler learning to walk. Thanks for letting me get all this out!! I am good person. I don't want to hurt anyone. I know it's going to be me. I just know it. :(

 

Hi Justwordswithfriends,

 

Welcome, I've been out of my nearly six yr A for almost 14 months now. I have to say, it feels like a weights been lifted.

 

I would never tell someone what to do, but my suggestion to you would be ask yourself what you truly deep down in your heart want from this guy.

 

You gotta admit, when people get involved physically and emotionally it's supposed to develop and grow not be stalled and have a dead end. This is the nature of more A's than not. The ones that are ok, don't need support forums. Granted there are some that make it here and I, at one point in my A could've easily envied them.

 

I'm 49 yrs young, my A, at times felt so lonely and isolated, because I found myself often waiting around for MM instead of going on with my life.

 

It just seemed natural that I'd want to share good or bad news with him first. I wanted the relationship to grow and evolve on deeper levels and yet he easily compartmentilised the A.

 

Now my exAp told me more than once I was his one and only A. I was having a casual conversation,with someone thatsaid my xAP, was calling and texting herwith flirtatious regularly. This isn't an insinuation that your AP is not being honest. I'm merely sharing my experience.

 

I think that as time goes on in A's we learn more about these people we've beome involved with and attached to. We might realise we've put them on a pedestal to some extent. We have unmet expectations at times. We have to except that there will be lonliness at times and disappointments as well.

 

 

If you haven't already, maybe you should consider starting a thread , you'll get more replies focusing on your situation. Best of luck to you.

Edited by skywriter
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So, I think there's a better way, and I'm aligning myself in a category of people who don't see all stories as the same, who agree that there are more important issues at play if you want to predict outcome, and who, despite their own hurt, are able to keep an open mind about people as they come in the door and hear their story before assuming the moral highground. BS, WS, and AP most welcome to identify with this group. I will think about and refer to people who can't do that as a group too, and i'll think about their need to predict the outcomes of strangers romantic lives in the same way with the same words over and over ad nauseum, without stopping to hear the full story, as belonging in a category with more important commonalities than these labels and cliche's they like to use.

 

Hear, hear!

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justwordswithfriends

skyrider, thank you so much for your warm welcome and your honesty. I appreciate you sharing your story, too. I am new to any forum and don't know the thread vs. reply protocol, so thank you for suggesting I do that. I am so aware that the odds of MY story being different are about a zillion to one. I also am realistic and honest enough to admit I'm going to take those odds...today. IDK...I have to. call it low self worth or settling, but I NEED to follow this a little further. I'm not a stupid woman. that's what's odd about this situation. I "know better" and all the stuff that shrinks...my shrink...would (does!) have a field day with. But, there's something driving me to see this through a bit more. Gluttony for pain and self punishment? I guess time will tell. I do feel grateful I have a place that will not punish me for my choices...I think.

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