Can The Other Woman Trust Her Married Lover After His Divorce?

[kittie01231977]

I posted a while back about seeing a MM. I stopped talking to him and since MM has filed for divorce his wife has moved out, he asked me out and we have been dating for the last two weeks. His wife knows he is seeing me and she is seeing someone else I guess. MM keeps reassuring me that the split between him and his wife never had anything to do with me. That they had be talking about divorce for the last year. I have met his family and his son and everyone is very supportive of him seeing me. Most of my family is supportive and like him. He tells me he is in love with me, that he loves me and deep down I love him. He has asked for commitment and is offering his in return. How would some of the "other women" feel about their MM asking for commitment after they knew he persued someone else while he was married? I trust him, but I wonder if this will leave a scar on our relationship and if I will always see this.

[Red Flag Rick]

I have never been "the other woman."

 

it probably has a lot to do with the fact that I am a gay man.

 

I have, however, heard this same story, in one form or another, from several straight gal friends of mine. And when I read your post, I saw some red flags that I believe are worth pointing out to you.

 

And the first thing I will tell you is here's the first red flag - you don't place enough value on your own self-worth, so you sought a lower level relationship than you deserve by hooking up with a married man. And cutie, there's a big ole' period at the end of that sentence, so don't do what so many of us want to do, me included, by cranking up the ole' noggin so we can spew out justifications as to why we did something we truly know is wrong. As I have to tell myself all the time, "That's where the period should go, and that's where the reality lies."

 

And I sure do hate telling myself that, because I love to think I am absolutely perfect. But I am far from it and reality usually slaps me in the face when I know I have to remember this.

 

So you messed up by getting this ball rolling, but listen up - this is not your first red flag. There's a reason you chased a man with a ring on his finger, and before you question "the other woman," you better question why you entered into a connection that you knew was extremely dangerous and unhealthy to your emotional health. Unlock the door to this mystery and you will find the answers so you can help other broken women and be a force for change in this screwed up world.

 

You are broken right now, but I assure you that by focusing on your own personal growth you will find the peace I know we all desire, and you will find a man worthy of being with you. And he will be single, and awesome. Honey, he will curl your toes like they have never been curled before. because once you are in a healthy relationship with a healthy, evolved man, everything will be so much brighter and magnified, including sex. How does a gay man know this?

 

Because chicks talk and I know lots of 'em. And the bedtime stories they tell me once they are in a healthy relationship with a guy who "gets it" make even my gay toes curl.

 

But in general, once you are in a true, healthy relationship, kittygirl, you will experience a joy that I know you have never known. Your post tells me you have never known this, and this is a shame.

 

So recognize now that you are focusing on the wrong thing and this is the root of your struggle. But don't freak, because we all do at one time of the other, and if I can change, anybody can.

 

Let's look at your post and discover red flags. And you need to discover how to look for red flags as you enter into relationships with men, but you aren't there yet because you didn't see the first big red flag that is stuck on your head - don't beat yourself up about it - just listen and get it. This is the first red flag you must see so the process of growth will begin.

 

It's what I mentioned earlier about your own value. Sweetie, believe me - women are built to be smarter than men, and you have just experienced a great example of why you babes need to be smarter. He got ya, and unless he changes, he will get another one down the road. You got caught because you weren't tapping into your inner power, and this is crucial if you want to navigate the relationship waters correctly.

 

In other words, you didn't think enough of yourself to halt your direction towards an unhealthy relationship, and you should have stopped that Infidelity Train before it pulled out of the depot. You meet a married man and think he's a hottie? I am fine with that - nothing wrong with seeing the beauty in someone. But when you fail to see the true beauty in yourself, and it causes you to you enter into this kind of drama when you know it is wrong, honey, you gotta problem and I urge you to recognize this today and get the train rolling on the right track.

 

And don't think for one minute that you aren't worth more than an empty relationship with a dysfunctional married man. And yes, this is dysfunction like Bill and Hillary dysfunction. And you are above all this and you need to believe it so much that you are almost a cocky b*tch about it. See, you don't have the tools necessary to meet the right guy because you have been focusing on something other than yourself for a long time, and I bet it has something to do with your life-long perspective of finding the perfect man and living happily ever after.

 

If you truly knew the power you have inside you, and if you tasted that power one time as you were going through the dating process, I bet my Louis Vuitton luggage that you would never consider settling for a third rate romance, low rent rendezvous again. Females have a brain that, if used correctly, can make you feel like Wonder Woman. You will be able to spot a red flag from a distance and you will have the power to stop moving toward that red flag so that you can be the master of your relationship and your future.

 

But right now, you are Blunder Woman, so you gotta get to work.

 

And I just have to get back to your post because I am itchin' to throw reality at ya so something will get your attention and wake your cute self up. I am gonna do it in a nice way, but girl, the part about you meeting his family and thinking they accept you sets me so far back, I struggle to hold my forked tongue.

 

This whole "meeting the family" embarrassment should have been a red flag to you, and the red on this flag is blinding. You are meeting a married man's family - sweetie, the man is still married and you are slinging up with his family and then presenting him to your family like he is some first class relationship trophy. And I cannot help but wonder if either family's gay representative was there to see this splendor.

 

Side note - (you all know you have a gay guy in the family - and he sees everything that is going on... and when a Days of Our Lives drama unfolds like this, ladies and gents, he is all over it. So if you haven't made real close friends with your gay relative, call him now and get to know him - he is probably me, and he will prove to be a valuable resource for lots of things. And don't forget the female relative who has been single forever. That good ole' lesbian knows more than you will ever imagine, and she is worth knowing.)

 

Back to Meet The Parents...

 

Here's what I would say if my married relative brought "the other woman" home to meet us - "I knew Bobby was screwed up, and now he has the balls to bring this loose meat home to meet us while he is still married to Betty? Well, he sure did pick one more winner - when's the wedding?"

 

And honey, his family looks at you and they think the same thing, or somewhere close to it. Don't fool yourself - they are smiling at you because it is the safe thing to do - and they are ripping you to shreds behind your back. I am from the Deep South USA, and we have this down to a fine art. We can make you think you are our best friend, while all along we are whispering to others about the horrible details of your dysfunctional life. It is not right, but it is definitely Southern.

 

Sweetie, You have been fooling yourself for a long time, so snap out of it and realize there is no validity in meeting his family, and there is certainly no honor in presenting him to your family.

 

And to think that this man's son is seeing all of this.... what role models we can be sometimes to kids... This is what he thinks is normal. And that is a shame.

 

So married man says he loves you. This means nothing. And if you are willing to settle for this low level love when you can have so much more, don't whine when he latches on to the next "other woman" and shoves her into the den to meet the family.

 

Bottom line, dear, you deserve a better relationship than this, and if you don't change your path immediately, you are gonna be one miserable gal. And I don't even know you and I think you deserve better.

 

Why do you think you don't?

 

"He has asked for commitment and is offering his in return."

 

Sweetie, I bet you are a very nice person, and I bet you truly want to do the right thing. I also bet you want to treat people right, and you want people to treat you right in return.

 

If you think that he is offering you something, oh he is, but is sure ain't commitment.

He is offering you a one way ticket to Dramaland, and I would drop my invitation, turn around, and run fast from this potential nightmare if I were you. For you to even consider this empty exchange tells me that you sure don't think much of yourself. And you should because you are worth so much more.

 

"I trust him".......... geeeeeeesh.

 

like I always say, I sure do love you straight girls, but sometimes you scare the bejeebees outta me. Take those rose colored glasses off, get the wax out of your ears, and drop the manicure set. This is crisis material and I'm dialing 911 as we speak.

 

Do you understand what you are saying here? I am absolutely astounded that you have the mindset where you can say that you trust this schlub! I have not seen one tiny piece of evidence yet that defines trust in him or what you are doing, and before I forget to tell you, this is another red flag!

 

kittiegirl, i need to go to work. and i have so much to tell you. please please please promise me that you will stop for a few minutes and review my other posts - and look under the screen name "scottbsl" because that is the name i started with...

 

You are in serious trouble, and it has nothing to do with a married man, other women, family approval, or anything else. It has everything to do with you and the value you place on yourself. This is where you start, and this is how you learn to attract the best man you can possibly attract.

 

And as much as I dog the straight guys cause lots of 'em need work (like married men who prey on women with low self-esteem), there are many straight guys out there who have already taken the steps to evolve and learn how to really treat a lady, and I think all women deserve one. Come on girls, a hot man who really knows how to make his lady smile for the long term? A hot man who sees a lady as he should, and places the success of the relationship before his football game?

 

If this doesn't give you a hot flash, nothing will.

 

And notice how I used the word, lady. There's an art to becoming a lady, and there's a life that a lady can experience that far surpasses that of a gal, babe, girl, or woman. And ladies attract the best, real men, without a doubt. A real man wants a lady, not a gal. And kittygirl, if you think his family or your family sees you as a lady, you are dead wrong. They can't, because you don't even see yourself like this yet.

 

But you can, you should, and I pray you will. It is your right and you deserve it.

 

And I talk about this and other things in other posts, and by god you need to hear it.

 

Don't be just one more broken babe in this world, because you are so much better than this. And I know in my cold, black, charred heart that you were meant to have more, because we all are meant to have more than this low level bs...

 

And I think it is about time you start realizing it.

[quankanne]

WHEW!!!! that was eloquently -- and baldly -- put, RedFR! I think you're the voice for the wake-up call that lovers of married men (and women) need to hear ...

 

kittie, as Red points out, there are a lot of red flags in the case you've presented. First off, if your man has these kinds of feelings for you and is serious about pursuing a long-term, above the board relationship with you, he will have made sure that he is free to do so. As in, he will end the relationship he's in now, be he married, engaged or even just dating another girl before he starts up another relationship. His failure to do so makes me wonder if he's not looking for greener pastures (yours) because he's fenced in!

 

the other thing that makes me wonder is this: how the hell can he introduce you to his family (and vice versa) if he is morally and legally bound to another?! His intention may be to establish a long-term relationship with you, but he really, really, really should be free of any entanglements with other women before he does that (see above paragraph). Just because they get along with you, or they get along with him doesn't mean y'alls families are giving carte blanche approval -- they probably are just too well-mannered to tell you to your face how scandalous they find the situation. And I guarantee, they find it scandalous all right, because that's not how "nice" people present themselves.

 

you also ask if you're later going to resent him wanting you to be committed to him even though you knew that in order to "catch" you, he wasn't being faithful to the woman he was married to. Believe me, it's going to eat at you because you're human and this kind of shxt tends to bug you. Hell, I still have problems with my husband 's relationship with the woman he lived with before he and I ever hooked up, and we've been married a dozen years! That stuff will rear its ugly head every chance it can, even moreso when you're not secure about the relationship itself. And judging by the question you ended your post with, you're bugged about how your relationship with him has evolved, even though you're the one walking away with the booby prize.

 

read through Red's post again. and then once more. there's a lot of good stuff in here about taking pride in yourself so much so that you're not willing to settle for the kind of dishonest relationship Married Guy has offered all along. if you two are serious about it, then put it to the test: stop seeing him until long after he's gotten his divorce taken care of, to see if this really is a relationship that can survive outside the forbidden land of infidelity.

[Red Flag Rick]

thanks quan - i tend to be a bit shy when it comes to my desire to see all of us enjoy healthy relationships, so i hope i wasn't too reserved!

 

i just hate that she is doing this to herself - she is, like all of us are, worth so much more... and you are right on the money - let's hope that something we have said will be the spark she needs to get started in the right direction...

[onthemend]

Thanks Red Flag Rick!

 

I seriously enjoyed your diatribe!!. I was wondering if I would read something on this site that struck a cord with me - and by God you did.

 

You are so right about self-worth. I think that in my case that was the whole crux of the matter - I didn't have any!!

 

As from now on I'm going to value myself more and the next relationship I have will be with someone who is available; both in the not married sense and the emotional sense.

 

Cheers.

 

PS. I'm now going to go and read all your other posts and see what else I can agree with!!

[reachingskywards]

Kittie

 

The main thing that concerns me is that he is asking for commitment after only 2 weeks of dating. You didn't say how long you guys were seeing each other prior to his breakup or how long he has been broken up etc... but,

 

Firstly -- I wouldn't give him any sort of commitment until you were well and truly ready (if you ever are). Secondly -- I would take things real slow. If you decide to keep seeing him then just slow it all down. He has just come out of a major relationship bust up and needs time to get over it.

 

I would be concerned he is on some sort of rebound thing. If you don't sort yourself out before getting involved with someone else then that can lead to all sorts of issues. I've fallen into this trap myself and it's a bad one for anyone to get into for all concerned.

 

I would definitely be wary of trusting him. He has proved himself unfaithful to someone else. Don't give him the chance to do it to you.

 

Be careful. Look after yourself. Use your intuition...

[zarathustra]

The fact that you found love with this man will corrupt your commitment to him only if you allow it too.

 

I don't believe in Original Sin. As I don't believe in Original Sin, I do not believe that every commitment born of an affair is corrupt, defective, unworthy or false.

 

Humans, and human relationships, including the outlaw relationships that get people up on their high hoses on these boards, are unique, different, individual. No one can predict whether any relationship will last regardless of its sanctioned or unsanctioned origin.

 

If you love this man, and believe he loves you, and that he's capable of sustaining a loving monogamous union, then go for it. Sure it's a risk, but what worthwhile thing does not involve an element of risk?

[kkat]

Hey Miss Kittie-

 

Kkat here. I wanted to throw in my two cents.

 

1. Your intuition is telling you that something is off-kilter in this relationship. That's why you are posing your questions. Don't disregard your intuition.

 

2. I am not a beliver in the absolute that a man who cheats once will cheat again. I don't necessarily believe (even as a broken-hearted ex-OW) that all cheating spouses are created equal. What I'm trying to say is that just because he cheated on her doesn't necessarily mean he would cheat on you. But what do you know (or perhaps don't know) about his history, both in the relationship with you and possibly before you? What does your instinct tell you? Do you think he would cheat on you? Again, your instinct is raising this question - listen to it!

 

3. Big flash here -- as you can read in detail on my posts and those of some other OW - divorce isn't divorce until it's final. I lived with "my" MM for two years, was with him for a total of four, including hosting his parents in our home for visits, having his two boys spend every weekend plus other time with us, playing the role of wife-to-be and step-mother for a man who, despite the divorce proceedings he had started, despite the life we had built together (or so I thought)....went back to his wife and family when the rubber hit the road in his divorce proceedings.

 

After he went back to his family, he tried off and on for years to get me to see him - telling me he was still in love with me. I never saw him once, until almost a year ago, which was seven years after we had split. I was in an unbelievably vulnerable situation and got involved with him when he promised me he was getting a divorce and marrying me. Guess what? He didn't.

 

My point is that even though your MM has started a divorce proceeding, it isn't done yet. I know my situation isn't typical, but it happens more than you think. And, even if he doesn't go back to his family, ALOT happens to a person (him) when going through a divorce, and unless he is a heartless rock, it WILL affect him and change him, and he may not feel the same way about anything, including your relationship unfortunately, as he goes through the process of divorce.

 

4. I think the fact that he is asking you for a commitment at this point is a big red-flag. To me it signals, perhaps, that unless he knows he absolutely has you as a back-up, that he wouldn't be getting the divorce. Which blows his statement that the divorce has nothing to do with you out of the water. Now, please keep in mind I said PERHAPS -- I of course don't know the facts, but it does register a red flag to me.

 

Not sure how this next thought fits in, and I'm not saying it applies to you, just sharing.

 

Recently, I have had weak moments where I have considered trying again with my MM. But, for the first time ever I have also really registered the fact that this is a man who chose to lie to people who trusted and depended on him -- his wife, his children, his family, his business associates, and to me and himself -- and that at the end of the day - one's character is reflected in one's actions. My MM's character - while it includes many wonderful traits - also includes a repeated history of lying and cheating on his wife and family. I can't chose to only look at his good sides - I am also acknowledging this awful trait. Every expensive gift he has given me, every dinner at expensive restaurants, was money that should have been going to his wife and family - not me. I never, ever saw it that way before, but I realize now that I have many self-esteem issues that caused me to get involved with him - twice - and that I painted a vivid, fantastical portrait of him as my knight in shining armour. While I am still in pain over him, desperate pain, I do know that this portrait was not accurate. Just make sure you know why you are in this to begin with, and who you are literally and figuratively in bed with.

 

Would you consider refusing to make a commitment to him or to seeing him until his divorce is final, and then at that point, dating him through the process of a "real" relationship, taking things slowly, seeing if then - without the drama of an affair - the two of you really want to be together? Is that something you could consider?

 

Good luck to you.

[iamtastee]

Zarathustra,

 

Beautifully put!!

 

I read many of these posts and I can't help but wonder how did the world become so screwed up since there appears to be so many self-loving and totally moral individuals around. I'm not a total pessimist though, I just think that many of these post are from ex-wives/lovers who have had their happy marriages disrupted by some OW or OM. This is their chance to lash out at all the skanks.

 

However, I don't have a sociology or psychology degree so I'll zip it.

 

Love is not neat and clean,actually it's quite messy.

 

If your fella has gotten an official divorce,he's free. Yeah, take it slow. If the divorce is recent,he probably has some baggage and issues that he needs to deal with before he can be totally wrapped up in the bliss of you.

 

Good Luck!

[zarathustra]

However, I don't have a sociology or psychology degree so I'll zip it.

 

Love is not neat and clean,actually it's quite messy.

 

If your fella has gotten an official divorce,he's free. Yeah, take it slow. If the divorce is recent,he probably has some baggage and issues that he needs to deal with before he can be totally wrapped up in the bliss of you.

 

 

 

No need to zip it, iamtastee.

 

And life experience, not college degrees, make the good, valuable posts on these boards.

 

You're right. She should take it slow.

 

In fact, her MM, once divorced, may want to test the market.

 

Who said love was fair.

[Red Flag Rick]

Originally posted by kkat

 

Your intuition is telling you that something is off-kilter in this relationship. That's why you are posing your questions. Don't disregard your intuition.

 

Recently, I have had weak moments where I have considered trying again with my MM. But, for the first time ever I have also really registered the fact that this is a man who chose to lie to people who trusted and depended on him -- his wife, his children, his family, his business associates, and to me and himself -- and that at the end of the day - one's character is reflected in one's actions. My MM's character - while it includes many wonderful traits - also includes a repeated history of lying and cheating on his wife and family. I can't chose to only look at his good sides - I am also acknowledging this awful trait. Every expensive gift he has given me, every dinner at expensive restaurants, was money that should have been going to his wife and family - not me. I never, ever saw it that way before, but I realize now that I have many self-esteem issues that caused me to get involved with him - twice - and that I painted a vivid, fantastical portrait of him as my knight in shining armour. While I am still in pain over him, desperate pain, I do know that this portrait was not accurate. Just make sure you know why you are in this to begin with, and who you are literally and figuratively in bed with.

 

Would you consider refusing to make a commitment to him or to seeing him until his divorce is final, and then at that point, dating him through the process of a "real" relationship, taking things slowly, seeing if then - without the drama of an affair - the two of you really want to be together? Is that something you could consider?

 

 

bravo. the educated voice of experience. i love the way miss kkat thinks. and her thoughts indicate her personal growth and evolution. and it echos what i have heard from my girl friends over the years... some of her words just leap out at me, like

 

"don't regard your intuition." "for the first time ever i have really registered"

"one's character is reflected in one's actions" "i can't choose to only look at his good sides" "repeated history" "i am acknowledging this awful trait"

"i never, ever saw it that way before but i realize now" "self-esteem issues that caused" "twice" "I painted a vivid, fantastical portrait of him as my knight in shining armour." "this portrait was not accurate"

"Just make sure you know why you are in this to begin with, and who you are literally and figuratively in bed with."

 

and that last one - i am turning that into a t-shirt . i hope kkat does not hold the copyright yet.

 

and kkat's last paragraph questions are the least you can consider at this point.

 

some other views? well, i certainly respect their right to their opinion. sounds foreign to me, but this is your call, not any of ours...

 

zara makes an excellent point that life experiences make the good, valuable posts on this board. so i hope you keep us updated... other's are reading and you never know who you are helping by sharing your story...

 

and not even considering morals in this, i think one of the main reasons that the world is so screwed up is because there are not enough self-loving individuals - there definitely aren't too many...

 

i bet kkat would agree that placing a high value one one's self to create an unshakable foundation of self-love is crucial. looks like she has lived it. i know i have.

 

if i were you, i would recognize miss kkat as a valuable feline runnin' buddy - i bet she has lots more to tell you... you could learn much from this tiger.

[kittie01231977]

I have loved all of the advice and the encouragement. I do value my worth greatly and I am really taking time to see how what everyone said makes me feel. Thank you! I wrote the post on here because although I have asked my friends and family there opinion I wanted to see if there were any perspectives I hadn't thought of.

 

MM and I had a long discussion. I told him of my hopes and dreams and what I am looking for. He is quite a bit younger than me and I thought talk about how I want to get married and have children of my own might scare him away. I wanted him to know that I am seriously willing to give him a chance and how that was a very big deal for me. I haven't let very many men in my life and I have never let any of them get close. I want him to know me and I want to know him. This is what my heart has decided. I don't take these things lightly and I would hope that he wouldn't either. I mentioned that he may want to play the field a little, see some people, figure out what he wants before he commits to anyone. I wanted to know how he thinks and what he thinks about. I believe I am what he has wanted and what he is looking for. He wants to be with a good woman, a respectable woman, an honest woman, someone who respects him and respects themselves, he wants someone he can build a life with. I don't believe that just because he was married and is getting a divorce he doesn't deserve these things. He has worked hard and is a good man. He loves his family and his friends he would do anything for anyone. He is just like me and just hadn't found the right person yet.