Cheaters, Cheaters, Cake Eaters

[promises]

I'm convinced that xMM would be perfectly happy having me as a side dish to entertain his libido and ego all rolled into one.

 

His wife knows he's cheated at least twice, my guess is more.

 

Why do woman stay with cheaters? Yes, I was involved with a cheater, clearly, I was for a short time the OW. Granted a friend before he claimed his love was with me, yadda-yadda.

 

Anyway, I'm looking for some insight on why people believe that a spouse would stay with a husband/wife that cheats (more than one time) to where it has proven itself as clearly some sort of pattern.

 

Just thoughts, welcome yours....

[Sarabi]

Well...I guess I can't speak for everyone but...(referring to my situation)

They married very young. This is her life. This is all she knows. If she gives that up...what will happen? I strongly got the impression that this is not someone who is capable of doing anything for themselves (living alone, working and supporting yourself etc.) simply because she has never had to.

He told me that she will never leave because she loves him too much.

I think their relationship is co-dependent (yes yes, they might well be in love too but they are definitely dependent on each other).

As for him...he has an absolute gem there-he can cheat and lie and sneak around and HE KNOWS she will NEVER LEAVE.

Sorry but for some of the men out there is that not a fabulous situation for you? you can do whatever you want with many other women because regardless...you will still have someone at home.

 

I also remember reading something random on the net that certain women are more likely to leave than others...it was something about how professional women are less likely to stay if their partners cheat...but don't quote me on that

[promises]

HE KNOWS she will NEVER LEAVE.

Sorry but for some of the men out there is that not a fabulous situation for you? you can do whatever you want with many other women because regardless...you will still have someone at home.

 

 

This is very true. Cheat once and they take you back, you know your odds are much higher that if you cheat again, they'll take you back again.

 

Also, the co-dependency piece. I'm not saying that this is a bad thing. It just is true. You partner with someone and the thought of being alone when that is all you knew was a life with them, would be terrifying I would imagine.

[Sarabi]

Not having being in the situation I guess I can never know

I always thought that if someone cheated on me, I would be happy to let them go. Married or not. Life is too short...if they are not happy and they feel the need to do that then why not let them go and chase all the other women they want? Why would anyone need to cling to someone like that just for the sake of still being together?

I think about what I would do if I were her...but I am not her.

He asked me once, if I had a boyfriend or was married...would I cheat on him? And...if I was still seeing him and then found someone I wanted to be with, would I carry on the arrangement? I said no to both counts.

 

I don't necessarily agree with this staying for the children thing. Two independent situations-you do not need to be in a relationship/married to be a good parent. I could be the worst girlfriend or wife, nightmare to live with etc...but an excellent mother.

 

I think its very hard...in some cases I think its a fear of the unknown or simply being scared to be alone. "He/she is nice, kind, good to me, looks after me, has money or whatever...why should I give that up to be single or suffer the stigma or divorce/single parenthood?"

 

All I know is. With this whole betrayed spouse, married people, affair partner business...you don't know what you are talking about and can't judge until you're in it and experience it. Seriously. And being as all our relationships are not the same...then it just complicates things even further.

 

For the record...up until August one of my favourite TV shows was Cheaters

[Sarabi]

The one thing I don't understand and which confuses me so much in my head...

If I as an OW carry on seeing that man, I am dirty/trashy/devilish/evil/have no dignity etc. whatever people like to say.

But...

If the wife/girlfriend stays and takes him back...then that is fine? He is where he is supposed to be, he left that evil OW and he is exonerated of his "non-crime"(because don't forget ladies, its all our fault )

Where is the logic, sorry? I don't actually understand? Unless its another line of thinking to denigrate the OW

He was wrong to hurt her (I don't deny this) but if he goes back to her he is to be congratulated because there is somehow no way on earth he could ever look at or have feelings for someone else besides her..?

And of course because our names are not on the marriage certificate or we don't have the gold band or diamond ring then of course those feelings are "less" or invalid...somehow "not real"...

 

In my head its saying its fine or him to cheat as long as he comes to his senses at some point and goes back to his wife...yet another reason for them to cheat in future (sorry!)

[promises]

He asked me once, if I had a boyfriend or was married...would I cheat on him? And...if I was still seeing him and then found someone I wanted to be with, would I carry on the arrangement? I said no to both counts.

 

 

For the record...up until August one of my favourite TV shows was Cheaters

 

Yes, in fact I was sort of dating someone when I realized that I had some feelings for xMM. Just feelings and I cut it off with the other person because I knew my mind wasn't on him.

 

However, marriage is a deeper commitment, obviously. But, I can't imagine the feeling you can develop for others are much different.

 

However, if you cheat multiple times, then there is something either:

A: Fundamentally wrong with you

B: Fundamentally wrong with the marriage

 

So, is it just ambivalence?

Is it a need for love and not understanding that isn't love?

Is love about something entirely different?

[promises]

He was wrong to hurt her (I don't deny this) but if he goes back to her he is to be congratulated because there is somehow no way on earth he could ever look at or have feelings for someone else besides her..?

 

then of course those feelings are "less" or invalid...somehow "not real"...

 

Maybe this is a coping mechanism. I know that this is exactly what xMM and her family said/did to me. Which ok, yes, I intruded on a marriage, that HE painted as a different picture then it was.

 

However, I do think that there are also people who believe that their mate couldn't possibly have feelings or love someone more than they love them.

[Sarabi]

Yes, in fact I was sort of dating someone when I realized that I had some feelings for xMM. Just feelings and I cut it off with the other person because I knew my mind wasn't on him.

 

However, marriage is a deeper commitment, obviously. But, I can't imagine the feeling you can develop for others are much different.

 

However, if you cheat multiple times, then there is something either:

A: Fundamentally wrong with you

B: Fundamentally wrong with the marriage

 

So, is it just ambivalence?

Is it a need for love and not understanding that isn't love?

Is love about something entirely different?

 

When I told him that I wouldn't cheat on those other people he said that I am a better person than he because I wouldn't cheat on my partner...yet he is hurting his wife

Its a very sad story...

I think if there is something fundamentally wrong with a person it must automatically transfer into relationships and life in general in some way. It has to. Cue my lovely therapist telling me to consider my relationship with my dad and how subconciously that has affected any relationships with subsequent men I have met in future (he is right, I saw the similarities).

I think he needs love...but he is looking for the wrong type of love. He wants to be loved and accepted...but I think he lacked a lot of his mother's love. That is not something his wife or any other "girlfriend" can give him sadly.

He did mention several times that he can feel needy, that he would like to depend on people rather than always having people depending on him. He needs validation and reassurance...

Very sad

[Sarabi]

Maybe this is a coping mechanism. I know that this is exactly what xMM and her family said/did to me. Which ok, yes, I intruded on a marriage, that HE painted as a different picture then it was.

 

However, I do think that there are also people who believe that their mate couldn't possibly have feelings or love someone more than they love them.

 

True. Especially if you're truly committed/married.

You've found the one to spend the rest of your life with...in truth, why on earth would they look anywhere else. There's simply no need because they already found you

[stevie_23]

My ex-MM’s wife knew about us since about June 2011, and we only ended in December 2012. So that’s quite some time to know your partner (they weren’t married until June 2012) is cheating online in an emotional affair and to still stay with them and then progress into marriage.

 

I’m not quite sure how she thinks about things. She got worried about our interactions in June 2011 (or thereabouts), but nothing big since there was no major stuff she found out. She was more concerned that he wasn’t happy living there in their life and was expressing it to someone else. He DID also express it to her to a small extent, but she wasn’t comfortable discussing it as what could she do about it? He didn’t want to live in the place they lived. He wanted to move to the place he was happy living for 20 years. She could never move from her home she’s lived in her whole life. He wasn’t happy living with her 3 adult kids who took over the house and he spent most of his time locked in his music studio alone because he just didn’t want to be around them much. He felt like he lived in a college dorm and at 60 years old, he simply didn’t want that for his home situation. She loves having them living with her and was happy and didn’t want that to change. She encouraged him to spend more time with them and be a father figure. He flatly said no, that would never happen. Not interested and not who he is as a person and that won’t change now. He cooks and cleans for them everyday and also works 8.30am – 5.30pm each day. He resents it. She knows this, but what can she do? She’s talked to the kids but nothing much changes. He refuses to live in a pigsty and this is what happens if he lets the chores drop to wait and see if they make any effort. He also refuses to eat junk food and crap, which is all they eat if he doesn’t do the cooking.

 

So anyway, they have mismatched values (her’s is family, social standing, his is intellectual and emotional and musical stimulation and personal space and quiet creative time) and in late 2011 (a few months after the second D-day I think), she asked him to marry her. He said no. He didn’t want to be married again. He actually DID want to get married again, but only to ME. So they went along in their domestic partnership, with him planning to leave somehow and her hoping he’d change and somehow become happy with what they had. Nothing much was discussed, because what would be said? Him “I’m not happy and if I WAS happier, YOU wouldn’t be happy.” Her “I know. This means we have to end things.” And then…that would be what he wanted, but he wasn’t in a position at that stage to actually do anything about it, to follow through.

 

Anyway, in terms of her views…she knew he wasn’t happy, she knew he was in love / in fantasy land with someone else online who lived across the other side of the world, and yet she still wanted to move forward into marriage with him. He told me marriage was important to her because of the social status. She had always hated living with him and not being married because it embarrassed her.

 

She had only ever been in a relationship once before my ex-MM. She married her ex-H when she was in her early 20s and they got divorced just before she and my ex-MM met and slowly got together several years ago. The ex-H is insane and is now homeless on the streets in California somewhere, across the other side of the country from where they live. The kids want him to come back. The oldest kid, the son, resents my ex-MM and thinks he’s trying to take over (which he is SO not. That couldn’t be further from the truth. He is just not interested at all). He wants his dad back.

 

So I guess…is my ex-MM’s wife naive in a way? Only ever being with one mentally unstable man for her whole life and then being with my ex-MM and that’s it? Does she not know how she SHOULD be treated? Her ex-H was immature and childish in negative ways apparently and she had to baby him and mother him. I suspect she feels my ex-MM is immature too and the fact he won’t “join in” and be a proper “father” to her adult kids and the fact he didn’t want to get married and the fact he had this “emotional fantasy / outlet” for so long online and the fact he spends so much time making and playing music to “escape”, implies to her that he’s not being 100% committed and responsible, and that one day when he “grows up”, he will learn. Despite the fact he’s already 61 years old and he’s not gonna change now.

 

I just don’t know. If it’s true that after each D-day, they didn’t really discuss anything, then this is something I’ve heard before. That the W just kind of ignores it somehow. If this was ME? I couldn’t deal with that. I would HAVE to discuss it! But each to their own.

 

I suspect also, my ex-MM’s wife loves my ex-MM and doesn’t want to lose the good parts she enjoys in him, as well as the domestic stability, the family unit (even though it’s not really a cohesive unit as he doesn’t want that and never takes part in activities unless he absolutely HAS to and then he leaves early to get alone time and peace and quiet), financial stability, and familiarity. And hope. A lot of it is hope. The hope that the bad stuff will just go away. That he will change and everything will be good.

[Pierre]

Why do woman stay with cheaters? Yes, I was involved with a cheater, clearly, I was for a short time the OW. Granted a friend before he claimed his love was with me, yadda-yadda.

 

Anyway, I'm looking for some insight on why people believe that a spouse would stay with a husband/wife that cheats (more than one time) to where it has proven itself as clearly some sort of pattern.

 

Just thoughts, welcome yours....

 

No one like cheaters.

 

Unless the cheater does a good presentation as to why he or she is cheating.

 

OWs go with the cheater because the cheater does a good sales job. To that you can add a bit of low self esteem and dissatisfaction with singles. And before you know the OW stays with the cheater. The OW knows the guy is a cheater a priori.

 

The wife has no clue the H is a cheater until d-day. Then in one instant she has to process a ton of information. At this point the cheater does a sales job to the wife as to why he cheated. OW seduced him, blah, blah. Wife may have invested 10-30 years in the marriage and decides to stay.

 

It is not rocket science. The cheater simply does a good sales job.

[promises]

I didn't stay. I said, no way do I want to be this woman. That's when dday hit and he told her he loved me.

 

Of course he went back. But, I didn't want to be the OW.

 

So, I suppose she didn't want to share him either and when he lost his business, his home, seeing his kids, his friends, his family. Basically everything after dday. He went back to his life with her.

 

Still, she knows that he has cheated - and it's the game of chess to get him to stay home. It seems as though some women like that game.

[Sarabi]

BW has more to lose than an OW....standard of living, sharing custody of kids, etc. Heck, some MM claim to stay with the mean wife because he doesn't want to not see his DOG.

I was going to ask you if this was an acronym...but really. Correct me if I am wrong...you actually mean a dog dog...as in woof and bark, wagging tails, here's secretly hoping I get a old english sheepie in the not too distant future dog?

By the way in the event of a split the dog would be ALL mine...

[Pierre]

Still, she knows that he has cheated - and it's the game of chess to get him to stay home. It seems as though some women like that game.

 

But, the OW also likes the same game and she walks into the game with eyes wide open.

 

And the OW has nothing to lose. The BW has a lot to lose.

[promises]

Happens once shame on you. Happens twice, shame on me.

 

We're talking about multiple cheating episodes here.

 

And why a spouse would stay if it is a pattern.

 

I never wanted to be the OW. I developed serious feelings for a man who told me that it was 'ok' to do so based on his situation.

 

The spouses must know that if their man is cheating he must be saying SOMETHING to the OW to get her to believe in him, right?

 

I'm not smashing the BS at all. I'm trying to understand why a spouse would stay with a serial WS

[promises]

But, the OW also likes the same game and she walks into the game with eyes wide open.

 

And the OW has nothing to lose. The BW has a lot to lose.

 

The OW has a lot to lose, Pierre. A lot.

 

- reputation

- job

- friends

- heartache

 

the list goes on. Saying the OW has nothing to lose is pretty categorical.

[Pierre]

 

I'm not smashing the BS at all. I'm trying to understand why a spouse would stay with a serial WS

 

Staying with a serial cheater is awful, I agree.

 

But, remember, for every wife that wants to stay with the serial cheater there is an OW that wants the serial cheater.

 

I don't know which one is worse.

[promises]

Staying with a serial cheater is awful, I agree.

 

 

 

Ok, so why do you think that someone would?

[Sarabi]

I don't understand how some OW seem to think they know how a wife is at home? How can an OW continually believe all the baloney that comes out of a cheater's mouth?

I tried never to fall into the trap of thinking this woman was bad or terrible etc. but he never really gave me reason to think so.

I even told him that some of the things he said about her (very) occasionally were unfair or unkind. There was a time he told me I was very "pro female"(I can't remember what it was I deleted all the messages but he said something about her and I disagreed).

Sometimes I felt I stuck up for her more than he did.

 

Shouldn't both women's motives be examined to get a more accurate picture? instead of guessing what a BS feels, why not let those BW's who have reconciled speak up and tell 'their' truth instead of all this supposition and imagination at what happens behind closed doors?

Yes they should be

 

Do you think Seren is co-dependent? She is happily reconciled with her spouse. Co-dependent is NOT a word I would ever use to describe her -- classy, respectful, caring, loving, forgiving, etc...those are words I would use to describe her. yet the way this post was slanted, it is a cut down to women who have chose to reconcile. I think that is unfair to do without examining why a woman who KNOWINGLY and WILLINGLY jumps into an affair with a MM.

Apologies if I offended anyone...I was talking about what I perceive to be a co-dependent situation between the people I personally know. Not anyone on LoveShack...

 

Why does a OW not think enough of herself or want more for herself than to be an option to someone?

Situations...desperation...needing attention too... yes I am not in a good place. I know this.

However...why does a MM not think enough of his wife and family to stay away from other women?

 

Does he have a magic penis??

Twas magically floppy in my case ...we never were truly intimate in "that" way. For that I told him that at least one part of him is being faithful to his wife.

[Pierre]

Ok, so why do you think that someone would?

 

Is the same old. Low self esteem.

 

Regarding your other point; I disagree! The wife has much more to lose than the OW. You just cannot see it because you have never been married for a long time.

 

Promises, you still have a long ways to go in your recovery. You are looking at this like a VERY typical scorned woman. It is not worth it!

 

This was not about you or the BW. This is all about this man who is simply a good salesman. He did a wonderful sales job on you and a great sales job to the wife.

 

 

He loves no one but himself.

[promises]

Is the same old. Low self esteem.

 

Regarding your other point; I disagree! The wife has much more to lose than the OW. You just cannot see it because you have never been married for a long time.

 

Promises, you still have a long ways to go in your recovery. You are looking at this like a VERY typical scorned woman. It is not worth it!

 

This was not about you or the BW. This is all about this man who is simply a good salesman. He did a wonderful sales job on you and a great sales job to the wife.

 

 

He loves no one but himself.

 

I agree with you!! I am still recovering without a doubt. And, I am seeing that he loves himself above all others. I see that. However, it is important for me to understand things and if I can understand why the wife would stay with a serial cheater that I also fell for (yes), then I can try to 'recover' and not become a wife who accepts this.

 

Does that make sense. I want better. I want more. I need to be that and not fall into a pattern that will destroy me.

[Eggplant]

Ok, so why do you think that someone would?

 

My guesses: Women in particular stay in relationships we've invested in. We don't have as much ability as men to start anew. Once we take the jump and have children, there is no going back. It is often good for the whole family if the parents are united completely.

 

Also, nobody is perfect. A person may cheat in a moment of weakness. That doesn't necessarily mean the relationship cannot be salvaged.

[promises]

 

Also, nobody is perfect. A person may cheat in a moment of weakness. That doesn't necessarily mean the relationship cannot be salvaged.

 

what if it's a moment of weakness x 2 or 3?

[Pierre]

I agree with you!! I am still recovering without a doubt. And, I am seeing that he loves himself above all others. I see that. However, it is important for me to understand things and if I can understand why the wife would stay with a serial cheater that I also fell for (yes), then I can try to 'recover' and not become a wife who accepts this.

 

Does that make sense. I want better. I want more. I need to be that and not fall into a pattern that will destroy me.

 

Perhaps the wife puts everything on a balance and there is more good than bad.

 

Do they have children?

 

How long is the marriage?

 

Is it true she is seriously ll?

 

Does she have other options?

 

Being betrayed after a 30 year old marriage is not the same as being betrayed after being married for one year. It is not that simple.

 

 

IF you want to fix yourself you need better self esteem. A strong woman with high self esteem can see the BS of a cheating man right away and does not give a cheating man more than 2 seconds of her attention. You need to get there. There are many women that would never consider this guy.

[Sarabi]

I want more. I need to be that and not fall into a pattern that will destroy me.

Let us say to ourselves each day that we will get better, we will get more and we won't repeat this pattern which could destroy us in future

We've bloody well waited long enough, good, decent men have to be coming for us soon!!!

 

To quote my favourite song by Amy Winehouse(actually the only one of hers I really listen to)..."don't f**k yourself in the head with stupid men"

We spend too much time and energy analysing these men and their things ...I am hopeful that one day we will reach a point when we no longer gaze longingly at our phones, worry about receiving letters or worry about what they are thinking or feeling for us...they will simply be people we once knew.