Perceptions and witnesses

[SoMovinOn]

As you may or may not know, eyewitness testimony is the least reliable form of evidence. It is only reliable when it is supported by further evidence.

 

If there are 10 witnesses to an incident, and you ask them all what they saw, you will get 10 different answers. Ask them to describe a car involved in a hit and run accident, and you may get everything from a powder blue Prius, to a black van.

 

The reason this happens is because, while our eyes see exactly what is there, our brain processes that image. In doing so, the sum of all our experiences, everything that has ever happened in our life, everything we know or believe, is taken into account. This can make two people see the same thing very differently.

 

What does this have to do with LS?

 

Well, the idea was inspired by a user asking me if I had control issues, in that I often go back to clarify my original point, and, at times, try to bring the user back to that point.

 

It's not about control, it's about understanding that no matter how clearly I attempt to ask my original question or make my original point, people will read beyond what is there and color it with their own experiences and perspectives. In this particular forum, those colors can be extreme opposites. We have OM/OW here, BS's, fOM/fOW, people who have been both, maybe some people who have been none of the above yet but are in a situation where they may become one of the above.

 

I try to consider where someone is coming from when I read their responses, especially where there seems to be some misunderstanding. Whereas I may think I am being perfectly clear - I am really only clear from my point of view. Someone in a different position may not see it so clearly.

 

I am reminding myself of that. I might suggest others do as well, but we all know where that would lead, so I'm not even going there.

[SoMovinOn]

I am reminding myself of that. I might suggest others do as well, but we all know where that would lead, so I'm not even going there.

 

Allow me to be the first to say it so we can get it out of the way...

 

By saying that, you very much *were* making the suggestion to others! You're not the LS police!!! You can't tell us how to post!!!

 

There. Done.

 

Carry on

[pureinheart]

This is what a couple of people said to me a while back when I posted about my own situation. Basically I was told that if I did not immediately accept their interpretation of my situation as true and accurate that why should I bother asking the question in the first place --because I already had made up my mind.

 

That seemed weird to me.

 

Personally, when I offer advice to someone, I do so without the expectation that they are going to take it hook, line and sinker. My objective is to give them food for thought. Something to think about that may help form future thought and actions rather than something to accept in whole in the immediate.

 

Owl, you have very strong opinions about things, they are fairly black and white even. I have often found that when there is a breakdown in communication between two people, it is usually caused by two people, not just a failure of one.

 

 

Excellent post, and says everything I would like to say.

[serial muse]

Yes, but SBC, the trouble here is that SMO isn't looking for advice or even really asking questions. That was Owl's point.

 

OP, I find these posts of yours to be quite judgmental. You suggest that you're open to other answers, but then I read a comment from you that suggests that ALL people being lied to MUST know, in their guts, and if they didn't they it's because they didn't want to - and I realize that you aren't very empathic at all.

 

And then you say something like this:

 

people will read beyond what is there and color it with their own experiences and perspectives

 

and I just wonder why you don't see yourself in that. Where is your ability to accept that you might be projecting, I wonder?

 

This is why you appear to have control issues. You are trying to set up a discussion, but then telling people what they ought to think and why they're wrong that they don't think that way. Whee.

[ShatteredReality]

I would hope that anybody who has spent time on here and willingly posts would recognize that they're going to get responses from different people with different experiences. Some of those people can see beyond their own experience and recognize there are other possible outcomes for similar situations. Others feel their experience is the only true reality on any given subject.

 

My story is mine. I share it in hopes others can learn from it, take what they can use, leave what they don't need - etc. I try to offer advice based on how I feel or what I think - knowing I may hold an entirely different perspective than others do.

 

It's all in perception isn't it? You might read a completely different tone than I hear in my head while I type - so long as it is helpful I suppose it doesn't really matter, does it?

[fooled once]

Yes, but SBC, the trouble here is that SMO isn't looking for advice or even really asking questions. That was Owl's point.

 

OP, I find these posts of yours to be quite judgmental. You suggest that you're open to other answers, but then I read a comment from you that suggests that ALL people being lied to MUST know, in their guts, and if they didn't they it's because they didn't want to - and I realize that you aren't very empathic at all.

 

And then you say something like this:

 

and I just wonder why you don't see yourself in that. Where is your ability to accept that you might be projecting, I wonder?

 

This is why you appear to have control issues. You are trying to set up a discussion, but then telling people what they ought to think and why they're wrong that they don't think that way. Whee.

 

 

Great post!!!

[Kitsune77]

We are not all here looking for advice. To look for advise, presumes that their is one worthy of giving it.( general you)

What is wrong with using this forum to pose questions? As SMO does very well. In ancient times it was called discourse.it's a way of understanding oneself, and others. But if it is blocked from the start , because it doesn't fit a set of strange rules, run by people with " I'm right" agendas, it defeats the purpose. Or maybe LS should be titled" suport and advice for people who think just like us"

Again, this is a general you.

And for the record, I believe that all people who love someone do know there is something wrong.

 

Yes, but SBC, the trouble here is that SMO isn't looking for advice or even really asking questions. That was Owl's point.

 

OP, I find these posts of yours to be quite judgmental. You suggest that you're open to other answers, but then I read a comment from you that suggests that ALL people being lied to MUST know, in their guts, and if they didn't they it's because they didn't want to - and I realize that you aren't very empathic at all.

 

And then you say something like this:

 

 

 

and I just wonder why you don't see yourself in that. Where is your ability to accept that you might be projecting, I wonder?

 

This is why you appear to have control issues. You are trying to set up a discussion, but then telling people what they ought to think and why they're wrong that they don't think that way. Whee.

[OpenBook]

What is wrong with using this forum to pose questions? As SMO does very well. In ancient times it was called discourse.it's a way of understanding oneself, and others. But if it is blocked from the start , because it doesn't fit a set of strange rules, run by people with " I'm right" agendas, it defeats the purpose. Or maybe LS should be titled" suport and advice for people who think just like us"

 

I agree. I don't understand why some posters have a problem with this particular OP starting threads that simply post some thoughts on a particular subject (others do it all the time here!!) and accuse him of not being interested in other people's opinions & feedback. The very act of starting the thread implies that he wants people to also weigh-in on the subject and discuss it.

 

Oh... unless they assume that ANYONE WHO DOESN'T AGREE WITH THEM isn't interested in hearing their opinions. Is that it?

[SoMovinOn]

I don't think shoving of opinions is possible. People post and say whatever it is they have to say, others read it and take it or leave it as it applies to them or doesn't. In the case where it's just a discussion, same thing - people throw their opinion out there, and others agree or disagree, but anyone reading it is free to do whatever they wish.

[Kitsune77]

It was not my intent to offend or insult anyone, there are to many posters on LS who I admire to mention, the ones I mentioned were the ones who sprang to mind.

 

I was just trying to raise a point that I have noticed in the 2 years I have been reading LS, that posters who do not follow what seems to be the "unwritten laws" of the majority, seem to stop posting. Which I feel is a shame.

Again, my apolgies to who ever I may have offended.

 

 

Essentially you are insulting every other posters intelligence on here except for those you named and who YOU approve of. Your post is hypocrisy at it's finest and has nothing to do with discussion, it's just full of insults.

[donnamaybe]

The people who stop posting are usually those who were rude and/or uncivil in their posting and were, therefore, banned.

[Ellin]

The people who stop posting are usually those who were rude and/or uncivil in their posting and were, therefore, banned.

 

There are hundreds of reasons why people stop posting, Some may not like the atmosphere, others move onto someting else in life, or have resolved the issues that'd brought them here, or are too busy to sit in front of their keyboards often enough, or have terminated the contract with their internet provider, etc etc.

 

Not everyone wants to spend their lifetime on LS.

 

Talk about seeing things through one's experience...

Edited October 3, 2011 by Ellin

[donnamaybe]

There are hundreds of reasons why people stop posting, Some may not like the atmosphere, others move onto someting else in life, or have resolved the issues that'd brought them here, or are too busy to sit in front of their keyboards often enough, or have terminated the contract with their internet provider, etc etc.

 

Not everyone wants to spend their lifetime on LS.

 

Talk about seeing things through one's experience...

 

Yes, it is my "experience" that a certain group of posters got themselves banned but continue to make new user names over and over. That seems to signify a "lifetime" of sorts on this forum.

[Tayla]

I liked the "concepts" shared by the OP.

 

1: Projecting is common.

2: Perception is debatable based on "seeing the forest thru the trees"

3: Open mindedness can be established yet difficult to execute.

 

I didn't get the sense that the OP was POLICING so much as airing some opinion and food for thought. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

 

I'm often reminded the devil is in the details. Had a course that studied witness statements and we in the class were witness's to a scenario. OUr minds processed much of the data as we saw it transpire. At the end of the Event our Professor asked a few questions about the Robber and the victim. The Class answered accurately 80% and failed on 20%. We couldn't all agree if the robber was wearing sneakers or loafers. We couldn't decide if the victim had earrings or not. We couldn't decide if the robber grabbed the article with the left hand or right hand. What we all did agree on was: Person A did commit the act and Person B was violated. And in Court that was all that was necessary to convict. Our prof was pleased that we didn't need to be "sidetracked" to know that ACT was committed since we all 100% agreed on it. Again, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

[Owl]

Another perspective...

 

Oftentimes, others PERCEIVE us much more clearly than we see ourselves.

 

We're blinded by our own concept, our own self-image...and simply don't see ourselves the same way that an outsider does.

 

If a large number of "other people" come to the same (or similar) conclusions based on their 'perception' of you and your actions...and yet you insist that they're all wrong...a wise person might instead stop and consider what, specifically, gives those outsiders (who aren't blinded by that same self-image) reason to come to the conclusions that they did.

 

Just because you don't agree with their conclusions, it doesn't follow that they're actually wrong. The question becomes which set of PERCEPTIONS and CONCLUSIONS based on those perceptions are off, and why?

[SBC]

And then you have people like Jesus. In his time, hoards of people came to similar conclusions about him and well --history finishes that story for us.

 

Each of us has to march to our own drummer, no matter the 'conclusions' of others. If you don't, you will be like a rudderless ship, tossed about mercilessly by the ever changing winds of popular opinion.

 

Nuts to that.

[Owl]

But the flip side of that would be to consider that you're not the only person in the world...what you do has direct impact on countless others.

 

Using that "outside perception" can be invaluable to help you learn more about yourself, and to improve that impact to others...and to generally help you become a better person.

 

Living a life with no care about others is narcissistic.

 

Not a life I personally would care to live.

[SBC]

Everything one does impacts others. The "outside perception" of many people around the world says that just living as a typical American negatively impacts many lives around the globe.

 

It is a very fine line. And when it comes to matters of the heart, it is even finer.

[SBC]

and here is the other thing--how do you know the impact is ultimately negative? In the short term, yes, my involvement with a MM may cause grief to his BS. But, what if when they divorce, she goes onto become a doctor? Or finds the real love of her life. Or, some other positive outcome happens as a result of this change in their lives.

 

It is a habit of people to only follow the story in the short term, and then declare it tragic. Bad things come into the lives of everyone. It is an undeniable fact of life --whether someone triumphs from that is another matter altogether.

 

The way you make it sound, it is the end of the road. Are you not closer to your wife as a result of the challenge the two of you faced, and overcame, together?

Edited October 4, 2011 by SBC

[Owl]

Fair enough...so how do you know informing his wife would be a negative event long term?

 

Perhaps she'll let him go, he'll be with you, and you'll all live happily ever after.

 

Why not go tell her today, right now?

 

The "what if" game goes on eternally. Anyone can play it from whatever angle suits them. Generally not worth the silliness, IMO.

 

All of which is off-topic, btw.

 

This is about perceptions. My suggestion was that being aware of outside perception, and keeping in mind that sometimes external perceptions can be CLEARER than internal ones can be a useful tool.

[SBC]

Owl, it is not my place to tell her. It is their relationship, and to claim I know the dynamic is not right. He has to tell her that his feelings have changed and in his own time and way. But I have encouraged him to be more transparent with her and he has been. We have long discussions about this all the time.

 

jthorne, not confusing. We are "friends" and we are not having sex now. But to claim our situation is not still an affair would be dis-ingenious.

 

As to the if he left me for another, or had another on the side of me question. Would it hurt, hell yea. Would it change my perception, nope. If it does not work out with my MM, it is not the end of the line for me. It only means that the universe has other things in store for me --better things for sure.

 

And I am not "pro-affair" anymore than someone who is pro-choice is "pro-abortion" I certainly an not running around encouraging people to have affairs.

Edited October 4, 2011 by SBC

[Owl]

Owl, it is not my place to tell her. It is their relationship, and to claim I know the dynamic is not right. He has to tell her that his feelings have changed and in his own time and way. But I have encouraged him to be more transparent with her and he has been. We have long discussions about this all the time.

 

 

I understand your viewpoint. But hopefully you can see mine. We can play the "what if" game in either direction.

 

My intention in posting what I did about outside perception was to point out that if others (external to yourself) tend to come to a conclusion about you based on THEIR EXTERNAL PERCEPTIONS of your behaviors...it's worth listening to, especially if it's a consensus apparently shared by a relatively large number of independent outside viewpoints.

[SBC]

I understand your viewpoint. But hopefully you can see mine. We can play the "what if" game in either direction.

 

My intention in posting what I did about outside perception was to point out that if others (external to yourself) tend to come to a conclusion about you based on THEIR EXTERNAL PERCEPTIONS of your behaviors...it's worth listening to, especially if it's a consensus apparently shared by a relatively large number of independent outside viewpoints.

 

worth listening to --I would agree with that. but not always. simply because, like my MM's marriage, as a person making conclusions based on an external perception, I just don't have all the facts.

 

To me, things are just not so black and white as much as we would like them to be.

[Owl]

To me, things are just not so black and white as much as we would like them to be.

 

Interesting...the older I've gotten, I've seen that things are only as gray as we want them to be.

 

Gray allows for a lot of "interpretation"...it's very freeing to those who want to avoid black and white, especially when that black and white paints them in a negative light. Those that see in shades of grey tend to PREFER that view.

 

Again...all about perceptions.

[SBC]

I find it interesting that you say as you have gotten older you see things more black and white. I would be inclined to believe that is a trait of "older" people

 

be careful you don't become a victim of your own convictions.