Thoughts of Her

[NoIDidn't]

This thread isn't being started to create a heated debate, but a thoughtful discussion. An honest discussion, not one of posturing about how one claims never to think of "her" but posts reveal evidence to the contrary.

 

As I read the threads, it really jumps out to me that when an OW is in an affair, she spends a lot of time thinking about what "he" is doing with "her". If "he" loves "her". If "he" is doing *something* with "her", what "he" does while away with "her".

 

So many have tried to liken affairs to regular relationships, but this aspect shows, in big neon letters, how its not. HER. Thoughts of her go through every thread. Is she there for his money? Will he leave her? Will she use the kids against him should he leave? What I really read the most, though is the underlying thought of "how can I show him that I'm different from 'her'?".

 

The affair is rarely ever spoken about in terms of a singular relationship. It revolves around "her", something she does that he doesn't like. Or something that she doesn't do that he would like. Or how to avoid her finding out what's been going on. It doesn't seem to really revolve only around the supposed two in the A. How to continue to deceive "her" and avoid a D-day is there. Did she really just fall for that obvious lie he told "her"?

 

More thoughts of her:

"he never has sex with her"

"she cheated on him first"

"she treats him poorly"

"she likes the lifestyle more than she likes him"

"she works downtown, so we went <to a place away from downtown> to avoid possibly being caught"

"she thinks she owns him"

 

Sometimes the mentions are neutral, but mostly they are negative. Yet, the AR is not with "her". Its supposed to be with him.

 

Why such concern about "her"?

[MissBee]

This thread isn't being started to create a heated debate, but a thoughtful discussion. An honest discussion, not one of posturing about how one claims never to think of "her" but posts reveal evidence to the contrary.

 

As I read the threads, it really jumps out to me that when an OW is in an affair, she spends a lot of time thinking about what "he" is doing with "her". If "he" loves "her". If "he" is doing *something* with "her", what "he" does while away with "her".

 

So many have tried to liken affairs to regular relationships, but this aspect shows, in big neon letters, how its not. HER. Thoughts of her go through every thread. Is she there for his money? Will he leave her? Will she use the kids against him should he leave? What I really read the most, though is the underlying thought of "how can I show him that I'm different from 'her'?".

 

The affair is rarely ever spoken about in terms of a singular relationship. It revolves around "her", something she does that he doesn't like. Or something that she doesn't do that he would like. Or how to avoid her finding out what's been going on. It doesn't seem to really revolve only around the supposed two in the A. How to continue to deceive "her" and avoid a D-day is there. Did she really just fall for that obvious lie he told "her"?

 

More thoughts of her:

"he never has sex with her"

"she cheated on him first"

"she treats him poorly"

"she likes the lifestyle more than she likes him"

"she works downtown, so we went <to a place away from downtown> to avoid possibly being caught"

"she thinks she owns him"

 

Sometimes the mentions are neutral, but mostly they are negative. Yet, the AR is not with "her". Its supposed to be with him.

Why such concern about "her"?

 

In an affair, a third party is and will always be the pink elephant in the relationship....so it makes sense that "she" will be thought of. There is no way around it.

 

I am certain some people will say they never think of "her" and it never comes up...butttt for the majority I doubt that is the case. As you said, whether it is neutral, negative or positive, this third party exists and is an essential ingredient to the relationship being defined as an affair, so cannot be ignored. Some people focus on "her" with sick fascination, for some "she" is background noise, for some "she" is a nuisance but can be ignored (pink elephant) and various other mental relationships with "her" exist.

 

When I was the OW I did think of her and wonder about their relationship, as he didn't complain or speak negatively about her, I was curious about how she looked, what her personality was like, if she was similar to me, and from time to time thought of her living her life unaware. However, more often than not, she was the pink elephant that existed ALWAYS and even if I personally wanted to forget her...HE had to bring "her" up. It was usually in passing, whether it was to say she'd be in town, or something in relation to her and their child, or him having to see her or some mundane thing but nonetheless, she existed and is in his life so at some point will be brought up!

 

I suppose if one is an OW who doesn't know she is an OW then this is not an issue but if you know then even if you're not trying to think about this person, their existence is there and you'll be reminded of it, so you'll inadvertently think about "her" or usually, at some point "her" life and your life with her husband will conflict and there she is again. If you're inlove with her husband and trying to maintain a normal relationship then "she" is even more prominent but if it's just a fling then "she" may not factor at all.

Edited August 5, 2011 by MissBee

[Gentlegirl]

When I was the OW of course I wondered about her. When he wasn't with me, I used to wonder about where he was with her, if he was telling her the same things about his day that he told me.

 

It led to a lot of anguish and jealousy for me. If she had known about me, it probably would have been the same for her.

 

It's all about trying to share a person who loves and lives with somebody else. It became impossible and painful, the more attached I became to him.

 

I was born into a monogamous society and can't get my head around anything different. I know in other cultures it is different but I couldn't do it.

 

Gentlegirl

[MissBee]

When I was the OW of course I wondered about her. When he wasn't with me, I used to wonder about where he was with her, if he was telling her the same things about his day that he told me.

 

It led to a lot of anguish and jealousy for me. If she had known about me, it probably would have been the same for her.

 

It's all about trying to share a person who loves and lives with somebody else. It became impossible and painful, the more attached I became to him.

 

I was born into a monogamous society and can't get my head around anything different. I know in other cultures it is different but I couldn't do it.

Gentlegirl

 

Even within polygamous relationships this is a factor. From watching the show Sister Wives, the wives spoke frankly about managing jealousy and all those emotions and thoughts that arise due to sharing. It wasn't a case that they were always honky dory with no concerns in that regard. Especially when the husband took a 4th wife was when all those emotions were sparked anew. Overtime they all got accustomed to each other but once a new woman was introduced it got emotionally complicated....

[Spark1111]

I think as long as there is "her" there can be no eclusivity as a "them."

 

Which must be so painful, as it is not easy to express apparently in many affair relationships.

 

And I can understand how this unspoken thought can become the pink elephant in the room, and everyone knows pink elephants can become obssessive thoughts.

 

So whether it is easily admitted or not, how can there NOT be a competitive element in an affair?

 

If I can outlove her, maybe I can outlast her?

[NoIDidn't]

Even within polygamous relationships this is a factor. From watching the show Sister Wives, the wives spoke frankly about managing jealousy and all those emotions and thoughts that arise due to sharing. It wasn't a case that they were always honky dory with no concerns in that regard. Especially when the husband took a 4th wife was when all those emotions were sparked anew. Overtime they all got accustomed to each other but once a new woman was introduced it got emotionally complicated....

 

Yeah, I've read that Polygamous people have nicknamed this jealousy "Polyagony". And yet they stay in these relationships and work to find their roles in them.

 

Which opens up a tangent to this thread about the role of the OW vs the role of the W. But I digress.

[NoIDidn't]

I don't know if I agree that thinking about "her" is inevitable, per se. It depends on the context. If the context is neutral, I think its just a passing thought. Not obsessive. But when the context is negative or positive, it seems obsessive. I am more interested in the latter context. A passing thought doesn't really count, to me.

 

I have been the OW, knowingly and unknowingly. I have thought about her when I knew about her and after I found out about her. And those thoughts ran the gamut of positive, negative, and neutral. And I can say that when I found myself thinking more about her that I got out of the relationships - love or not. Once a relationship becomes more about what I can or can't do because of another person, it becomes a burden IMO.

 

I think there is more to it than simply seeing it as a competitive aspect, no offense or judgment intended here Spark. I've read it related to being territorial on another site years ago. My H or my BF are within my sphere of influence, where I have some power. Another woman in that mix throws my assumed balance of power out of whack, and possibly even threatens the existence of my R. I'll have to check this out more so I can give a better example.

[MissBee]

I think as long as there is "her" there can be no eclusivity as a "them."

 

Which must be so painful, as it is not easy to express apparently in many affair relationships.

 

And I can understand how this unspoken thought can become the pink elephant in the room, and everyone knows pink elephants can become obssessive thoughts.

 

So whether it is easily admitted or not, how can there NOT be a competitive element in an affair?

If I can outlove her, maybe I can outlast her?

 

True...I recall a thread in which people were discussing affairing up or down or around and also being a "wholesale improvement". It was all very interesting language which boils down to there being some inherent comparison and sense of being better than or special in order to attain what you want...

 

I hardly see any OW saying they think the wife is just as pretty as they are or even prettier, just as educated or more educated, just as fun or funner, just as sexually open or more...no....it's usually that in one or the other of the categories they are better and some type of improvement.

 

As the OW, the guy never spoke ill of his gf and he didn't compare us, I had never seen her or anything and that was a part of why I didn't have much in the way of me setting myself up as better...except that I thought, well he's having an affair...soooo cleaarly I must be! But...that idea was shot down when he told me he loved her and nothing was wrong with their relationship.

 

She existed...but I didn't know enough about her to either strongly dislike or like her. I just was left wondering how similar or dissimilar we were, which can be worst in some cases....I did hear her voice once and it sounded very nice and polished, and I thought, well we have that one thing in common. I ended up finally seeing her AFTER we were over and I moved on. She looks nothing like me and doesn't carry herself as I thought she would. I envisioned he had a type and I was it, and she probably fit it too...but on outward appearances no....but there could be similarities....there is still the mystery of who she is as a person....IDK so I can't judge that. I feel like I digressed but yeaa lol....

[MissBee]

Yeah, I've read that Polygamous people have nicknamed this jealousy "Polyagony". And yet they stay in these relationships and work to find their roles in them.

 

Which opens up a tangent to this thread about the role of the OW vs the role of the W. But I digress.

 

Make a new thread!

 

LOL @ polyagony

[eleanor01]

This is an interesting thread.

 

I think about my lover's wife all the time. Our situation is different from what it seems most other folks here are involved in, as his wife is terminally ill and almost bed-ridden. Also, her mind works right sometimes, but at other times, she is completely confused and fuzzy. I knew her a little bit when we were young, as it's a small town and we both grew up here. However, she is a few years older than I am and moved away after high school, so I never knew her well. She and her family moved back a few years ago so that she could be near her sister.

 

So, my lover and I talk about how she is, how the kids are coping, what hospice care is doing for her, etc. I even had a novel idea for addressing a particular problem that she is having--and it seems to be helping a lot. And no, I'm not patting myself on my back for being some kind of "better" OW. I'm just saying that my lover and I talk about her a lot and I personally think about her a lot.

 

Best,

Ellie

[silktricks]

My husband said that his AP seemed more interested in me than in him.

[Kitsune77]

Now this is what I have been thinking about for 2 days. My MM NEVER has discussed his wife, at all. He has not even referred to her in passing, very much the pink elephant in the room( for me) .

I do think about their relationship sometimes, and broke it of , on numerous occasions, but have always gone back, it's now 2 years.

 

I actually got jealous for the first time last night, as he was going out, and I got the feeling it was just them, and not with his children, as is usually the case. And , this may sound weird, but the intuitive flow that is always there with us, seemed to have a block on it. Plus for the first time in 2 years, he didn't email me goodnight.

 

I became hesitant to email him today, I felt like I was intruding on his family time, and I think for the first time, it really was brought home to me that he does share his life, love, and bed with another woman.

 

Just for the record, I do not want him to leave his wife, or break up his family. He is a good man, who has never been unfaithful before, and in a weird way, I seem to be mire concerned with the ramifications for him if caught, than he is.

 

And Miss Bee, I also feel my MM loves his wife very much.

I think I just give him something for " him".

Sorry if this is rambling.

[Kitsune77]

No matter what others have said here before... You must be a great comfort and solace to you lover. Xx

[eleanor01]

What a nice thing to say. Thank you--you made me feel really good.

 

Ellie

[eleanor01]

Now this is what I have been thinking about for 2 days. My MM NEVER has discussed his wife, at all. He has not even referred to her in passing, very much the pink elephant in the room( for me) .

I do think about their relationship sometimes, and broke it of , on numerous occasions, but have always gone back, it's now 2 years.

 

I actually got jealous for the first time last night, as he was going out, and I got the feeling it was just them, and not with his children, as is usually the case. And , this may sound weird, but the intuitive flow that is always there with us, seemed to have a block on it. Plus for the first time in 2 years, he didn't email me goodnight.

 

I became hesitant to email him today, I felt like I was intruding on his family time, and I think for the first time, it really was brought home to me that he does share his life, love, and bed with another woman.

 

Just for the record, I do not want him to leave his wife, or break up his family. He is a good man, who has never been unfaithful before, and in a weird way, I seem to be mire concerned with the ramifications for him if caught, than he is.

 

And Miss Bee, I also feel my MM loves his wife very much.

I think I just give him something for " him".

Sorry if this is rambling.

 

I don't think that you are rambling at all. It sounds in a way like you just had cold water splashed in your face. Are you trying to figure out what you're going to do? How are you feeling, other than jealous?

 

Best,

Ellie

[Silly_Girl]

Sorry, have to ask, why has the 'elephant in the room' turned pink?

[Spark1111]

I don't know if I agree that thinking about "her" is inevitable, per se. It depends on the context. If the context is neutral, I think its just a passing thought. Not obsessive. But when the context is negative or positive, it seems obsessive. I am more interested in the latter context. A passing thought doesn't really count, to me.

 

I have been the OW, knowingly and unknowingly. I have thought about her when I knew about her and after I found out about her. And those thoughts ran the gamut of positive, negative, and neutral. And I can say that when I found myself thinking more about her that I got out of the relationships - love or not. Once a relationship becomes more about what I can or can't do because of another person, it becomes a burden IMO.

 

I think there is more to it than simply seeing it as a competitive aspect, no offense or judgment intended here Spark. I've read it related to being territorial on another site years ago. My H or my BF are within my sphere of influence, where I have some power. Another woman in that mix throws my assumed balance of power out of whack, and possibly even threatens the existence of my R. I'll have to check this out more so I can give a better example.

 

No offense taken!

 

But the imbalance of power is part and parcel of the triangle dynamic, and since the OW knows of the existence of the BS, this must very difficult to deal with on a daily basis.

 

During the affair, the BS is a threat to the OW's relationship. The OW, does not become a threat to the BS until the affair is revealed to the BS.

 

Often then, the triangle dynamic changes, sometimes radically so.

[Spark1111]

For the OP's:

 

It is not about HER, as much as the former BS's would like to brainwash you into believing.

 

Your R is about You and the Affair is all him. (Or gender reversal.)

 

If you truly want your relationship to be a relationship, don't settle and get what you need out of it.

 

The OW sets the tone, really. Don't give that away.

 

PT, with the exception of Silk and I, I believe all the other posters are OW or fOW.

 

No one is trying to brainwash anybody in this thread, IMHO.

 

This thread is simply a discussion about recurring themes often epressed.

 

Why would you think us two formerly faithful and happily reconciled spouses are trying to brainwash NID?

 

Based on what?

[OWoman]

Of course there were times I thought about the BS. I worried that she might physically hurt someone - herself included - or that she might do something completely irrational with devastating effect. There were times when I wondered whether she was really refusing to believe that her then-H was involved with "someone else" or whether her denial was just on the surface while she plotted her next move. There were times when her treatment of my H's family so appalled me I really struggled to understand how her synapses fired.

 

And at other times - most of the time - she simply didn't exist for me.

 

I don't see what is so puzzling about this. There are times when I worry about the evil Tory government sending the country to hell in a handcart, and other times when I don't give them a moment's thought and the cease to exist for me. Similarly there are times when concern about right wing fanatics like Anders Breivik pulling similar stunts here holds my attention, and other times when they don't exist for me at all. Focus shifts, attention gets invested in whatever you need to consider at the time, and then moves on to the next thing. Why should an OW never spend even a passing thought on a BW?

[no expectations]

Good topic...made me think about what I really thought about back then...

 

I thought a lot about the BW because I was so guilt ridden. My conscience gave me no rest until I ended it. I didn't really have comparitive thoughts except for our age. I'm ten years older and realize I felt very threatened by how young and beautiful she was/is. I thought about her without ceasing when she threatened to kill my daughter.

 

Other than all that...didn't think about her at all:o

[Owl]

For the OP's:

 

It is not about HER, as much as the former BS's would like to brainwash you into believing.

 

Your R is about You and the Affair is all him. (Or gender reversal.)

 

If you truly want your relationship to be a relationship, don't settle and get what you need out of it.

 

The OW sets the tone, really. Don't give that away.

 

Yep...those mean 'ole brainwashing BS's. :rolleyes:

 

Anyone who insists on what they want/need in a relationship can set the tone. Normally, it's the WS who does so, by setting the limits and boundaries within BOTH relationships...the marriage and the affair.

 

And that situation remains that way until one of the other two points in the triangle wrests away that power for themselves.

[LilyBart]

Why such concern about "her"?

 

I'm responding without reading anything past your original post.

 

You are giving "her" too much credit and how much real estate you think "she" takes up in my thoughts.

 

"WE" are what is important. "She" is not. It's quite simple.

 

I'm sure BW's would like to flatter themselves with the thought that they are thought of so often.....

 

Or perhaps it's because this is what BW's think about - "she" (the OW) takes up A LOT of head space for them?

[ladydesigner]

I'm responding without reading anything past your original post.

 

You are giving "her" too much credit and how much real estate you think "she" takes up in my thoughts.

 

"WE" are what is important. "She" is not. It's quite simple.

 

I'm sure BW's would like to flatter themselves with the thought that they are thought of so often.....

 

Or perhaps it's because this is what BW's think about - "she" (the OW) takes up A LOT of head space for them?

 

I am a BS and a WS (X)MOW and never would think of flattering myself by thinking that I am being thought of by the OW. Most of the time I realized I wasn't being thought of. I do not think my H's XOW cared one iota about me or how it would affect our kids.

 

When I was the MOW I did think of my XOMs girlfriend often. It actually tainted my view of the XOM as to how little he thought of her by doing what he was doing with me.

 

The OW does take up a lot of headspace for me and I wish it wouldn't. Unfortunately I have to deal with how I process my H's infidelity. It's not an easy process.

[jthorne]

I'm responding without reading anything past your original post.

 

You are giving "her" too much credit and how much real estate you think "she" takes up in my thoughts.

 

"WE" are what is important. "She" is not. It's quite simple.

 

I'm sure BW's would like to flatter themselves with the thought that they are thought of so often.....

 

Or perhaps it's because this is what BW's think about - "she" (the OW) takes up A LOT of head space for them?

That's why you're here posting in this thread right? Because you're not thinking about her, right? Uh, ya kinda have to give thought to the BS to make up a post about her...

 

OF COURSE OP's are concerned about the BS. If they weren't concerned, they wouldn't live in secret, or allow themselves to be hidden.

Edited August 5, 2011 by jthorne

[Lostinlife4now]

Now this is what I have been thinking about for 2 days. My MM NEVER has discussed his wife, at all. He has not even referred to her in passing, very much the pink elephant in the room( for me) .

I do think about their relationship sometimes, and broke it of , on numerous occasions, but have always gone back, it's now 2 years.

 

I actually got jealous for the first time last night, as he was going out, and I got the feeling it was just them, and not with his children, as is usually the case. And , this may sound weird, but the intuitive flow that is always there with us, seemed to have a block on it. Plus for the first time in 2 years, he didn't email me goodnight.

 

I became hesitant to email him today, I felt like I was intruding on his family time, and I think for the first time, it really was brought home to me that he does share his life, love, and bed with another woman.

 

Just for the record, I do not want him to leave his wife, or break up his family. He is a good man, who has never been unfaithful before, and in a weird way, I seem to be mire concerned with the ramifications for him if caught, than he is.

 

And Miss Bee, I also feel my MM loves his wife very much.

I think I just give him something for " him".

Sorry if this is rambling.

 

Kitsune77

 

you hit the nail on the head with this post for me really!!!! When I was the other woman I was his entertainment/something just for him. I had met his W years ago and she is ABSOLUTELY BEAUTIFUL...10 years younger than me, great body/so so personality. She reminded me of a wet noodle, nothing really to say....and I could tell from the looks of him and her, THERE WAS ABSOLUTELY NO CHEMISTRY....That is where I came into the picture, he was bored, said he married her for her looks...but never really sought to find out the substance of the person.....now they have children...so on and so forth......

I know xmm loves his wife and his family...he always said he would never leave......and it is normal for the OW to get jealous...after all he does spend ALOT of time with her.....But I ended the relationship because I could not do it to her or his kids anymore.....He would have went on forever if I allowed it...but he will go out and find someone else to take my place....he is young and handsome and successful and he WILL have his needs met.....But yes, I did think about her quite often........:bunny: