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How to integrate MM's kids to make split easier?


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firstly, want to say how wise and supportive the words are on this forum. Thanks to all!

 

Just have a q about how to make the leaving the kids thing easier for MM.

 

My MM: married for 16 years (arranged marriage - he v westernised, atheist, she not v westernised, never worked and muslim. he only married reluctantly after being cut of by his pakistani parents for 2 years cos he refused). 3 kids (age 2,8 and 10). previous short affairs and one nighters over the years (very likely and common in his occupation).

 

me: had been single for 2 years after awful relationship wi commitment phobic man but i left (after 6 years!) and rebuilt my life and happier than ever. 2 great kids 12 and 15 who i have half the time.

 

known MM for 2 years, started relationship 8 months ago, cautiously (my 1st MM!). Now: we adore eachother, soulmates. me now going through miscarriage - half planned and wanted but misguided for obvious reasons, so m/c is best outcome. However, has acted as huge catalyst and has opened my eyes to the situation. Need to sort it out so I don't go through pain and repeat my previous 6 years with unavailable man! (learning from my lessons)

 

having read many of the posts here, I see I am 100% right to be questioning this relationship (to the point of finishing if it does not change).

 

MM wants to be with me "forever", told his wife about me 4 months ago, sees me everyday when he is in UK, skype or talk when away, spend half his nights with me. Sees me as life partner.

 

Big problem though. Adores his kids, little time in UK and says he has problems not being there for them. he is changeable about if/when he will be able to leave. I stress that we need to work out arrangement where his new home (wi me) is where he sees his kids, rather than at home wi his wife.

 

I know that the leaving issue is vital - I am not going to hang around too long, have to decide exactly how long I will allow him for "transition" before I cut off (which i will no matter how much it hurts).

 

Question is: has anyone had any experience of making the issue of him seeing his kids less hard for the MM? He wants to keep everything stable for them and see them in their home environment, but I know this is alias for "I can't leave home", so I cannot accept this. I have met them once and he has been talking about us doing stuff together as the first real stage of bringing everything together.

 

Still unsure about if what he has done already really indicates that this could have a happy ending or if he is stalling and how much of a risk it is for me to give him, say, a "year" of transition. what do you think?

 

Thank you and respect in advance!

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Should add that he never thought he would meet anyone he loved enough to leave (yes, I know they all say this!). He has never told his wife about any of his previous affairs etc (not that it makes it ok on her, but indicates seriousness of how he sees this relationship I guess?). I do trust he will be faithful to me.

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Is it customary in your culture for MM's to integrate their children with their OW prior to ending their M? Here in the US, at least in my locale, most single parents are pretty protective of their children interacting with their dating/relationship partners even when divorced and living separately, much more so if in an EMA.

 

How did he introduce you to his children? Location, circumstance, verbiage? What kind of 'stuff' has he specifically spoken of you and they doing together?

 

Welcome to LS :)

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Am in UK, I am white british so i have been having probs myself understanding "his" culture (but as i say, he is not typical of his culture and v westernised, drinks, athiest etc...). But muslim families are very close knit.

 

My kids have met him only because I really trust him and the relationship has been really strong.

 

actually, to properly answer your question, usually (and it is the same for me), kids would only be introduced when really serious.

 

I met them in my studio during a public event, so as a platonic friend. Had a great conversation with them and they liked me. A good first intro. have met his youngest several times. he knows mine well and stays here when they are here too. They know his situation and I am candid about the fact that it isn't a desirable thing to do

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...oh, and usually introductions would be only when relationship goes public and is secure. we skipped the gun when i met them, but they too know about me now

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Time from meeting you to relationship beginning - 1 year 4 months

 

Time from relationship beginning to informing wife - four months

 

Have you verified that his wife knows? Any independent contact with her?

 

What parameters weigh upon your timeline for his commitment to you and ending his M? Example: Procedures for ending his M take time. What procedure and how long? What would indicate consistent progress?

 

I ask because, beyond a public meeting with you as a ostensibly 'platonic' associate, his kids will eventually ask questions if you continue to pop up in their lives. There's a flow to that process, parallel to his procedures to end his M. How do you envision that happening?

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sorry - didnt answer q properly. we prob go to a film, meal, day out that kind of thing. This talk is very recent. My house is very small so we (I mostly) have been talking about getting the loft done so there is more space for them.

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desertIslandCactus

I have read of other OWs who married the MM on here who boast of 'blending' families.

 

If you are lucky enough to have succeeded in breaking up the M of your soul mate.. please don't push it.

 

In a D the children are the ones who suffer the most. .

 

The mother of the children has built in maternal-protective qualities upon having her children. It can be a mother's worst nightmare, when her offspring must be with the replacement wife.

 

Please don't go any further with affecting the children with your plan. Let them be - and the father to visit them on Their turf.

 

This is why I agree with one thing Dr. Laura says: People shouldn't remarry until their children are of age.

 

In other words don't try to organize what you think is your new found property.

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i know she knows, have no doubt as he has been having a very hard time with this, obviously. No direct contact - i dont think that is fair on her and i dont particularly want it. I have always said the focus is on how he resolves his marriage in itself, it should not be about me (although it is)

 

My parameters are mostly about how i feel about his lack of commitment to me. I have had a bad time with this in the past (which I dont want to load onto this new relationship) but when I am feeling vulnerable (like now!) it begins to freak me out and makes me unhappy. I was very emotionally damaged in my last relationship and cannot afford for me and my kids to go down the pan again. My emotions tell me when I am unhappy and I periodically force the issue when my instinct gets worried.

 

He has already told her - that is one parameter, passed. BUT am wary that he may think that this is enough.

 

Staying nights with me is another. I have said I don't mind how long he sees them during the day when he is in the UK, but to have some sense of where his new base is. I need more space in my house so we have talked about getting the loft done - the practicalities are tricky. We have also talked about moving but these are long term and scary things for both of us and I have become aware that it is me who brings the topic up and initiates this "real" talk more. He is obviously scared and daunted by it (as i am) but i have said we need to at least get some plan together/timescale.

 

i have this week initiated NC as he indicated that i should not expect him moving out "too soon" and "if ever". he said these things after another row at home and problems with his kids. For me it is unacceptable to have an "if ever" hanging over me/us and I said that it probably means closure for us. He has since come back and said it would take at least a year, with no guarantee although he wishes that was possible. I am just trying to work through what my bottom line is so we can negotiate. But i do know that I need to feel that he has the intention and see real actions that show progress. The living environment and enabling him to have a relationship with his kids in "our" home is part of moving this on, so perhaps i need to accept that as long as this is happening more and more, that it will take a fair amount of time.

 

As long as we make a plan and i see he is following through, that should keep my alarm bells from ringing. Sometimes there are other things making me feel insecure, so i am trying to address these so i can be balanced about this process of change.

 

I believe that he has told his kids that he has feelings for me as they found some photos of us on his computer. so they should know that i indicate change for them, although he has been woefully laissez fair about things, wanting to do this gently, but my fear is that he will never be able to leave if he does not envisage it working in any other way. For some reason he finds it really hard to separate the kids form his house and wife. He has a lovely house and i know it is a huge thing for him to give up. Finding a solution to this is tough, and I dont want to be so hard line that I suffocate it... or too soft that i let him have OW and wife at home.

 

really appreciate your input - have had a really tough time this week with gynae problems assoc with m/c, but facing facts and picking apart the probs is really helpful!

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I am with carhill in thinking that perhaps you should look carefully at weather or not his wife really knows what's up. Have you met his wife? Is she really all that muslim and traditional...Pakistani's can surprise you.

 

I would if I were you, ask him directly to meet with his wife and discuss all of these matters in an open and honest way. Tell her that you are not just a platonic friend. If she already knows what's up then it won't be a problem. It would not be unheard of for one of them to keep a lover hidden somewhere and not tell their community about that person at all.

 

I may be projecting because I was in a broadly similar position re a Pakistani woman here in the USA. (Lets just say she has a kid who's my spitting image and does not say I or anyone else is the father... and her people more or less go along with it.)

 

Edited to add. You need to have direct contact. Trust me had I direct contact with my baby mama's father I would be in a better place right now.

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Thanks for your thoughts desertisland cactus.

I disagree that you should not remarry until children have flown. This means that if you make a mistake with the father/mother of your kids, you are stuck unhappy and unfulfilled for 20 years or so. I have met kids who say they wished their parents had split up as they were so unhappy.

 

As for MM, his kids see a model of a marriage where there is no love shown or stimulating conversation between a man and woman. I do not think this is bringing kids up in a healthy or secure environment. I would hate my kids to think this was acceptable in life. His kids have a chance to see a happy side to their dad that they cannot see with his wife.

 

thanks for your input tho. everyone has different attitudes towards a sense of duty and personal happiness (which becomes a problem when these are not compatible - which one do you choose and why?)

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he has suggested that we speak and talks of the unconventional nature of it (she is also his cousin and two families intermarried all the cousins, i.e. his sister married to her bro... unbelievable i know). I just dont think it is fair as it sounds like she does not have much power and it must have been so distressing for her already. I am a feminist type so I am very uncomfortable with this, but I also believe that he has a right to find someone who he is compatible with and be happy in his relationship. both his parents are dead now so he doesn't have to worry about their feelings and rejection now.

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KickinCowgirl
This means that if you make a mistake with the father/mother of your kids, you are stuck unhappy and unfulfilled for 20 years or so.

 

 

Yeah no way. And waste so many years of life? no way known. You can remarry and have happy & safe kids.

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Have him arrange the meeting on neutral territory; adults-only. Transparency, if he is to be ending his M, is one aspect of 'parameters'. Another might be, in lieu of actual meeting, evidence of the divorce process beginning and proceeding. In our case, once the case was filed with the courts, it was public record available to anyone with an interest. That's a great parameter of progress.

 

Be aware that married people did not get to be successfully married for many years by being clueless. They are very skilled at being 'creative' with truth and the art of persuasion. Trust with verification. If he finds this insulting, that's really good information.

 

TBH, I'd have a problem with my children being exposed to 'sleepovers' with a strange person. I can't think of one single mother I dated who allowed that, whether sex was involved or not. I respected that. Perhaps your culture/custom is different. One more parameter to consider, that being your children coming to see MM as the 'man' in your life.

 

Hope it works out :)

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Mrlonelyone: interesting to think why am i resistant to meeting her? could be my problem, but as you say it would be better for her to know that I am a good person. her kids told her they liked me (and i know this must be hard for her too). I have met my ex's girlfriend and it is good to know who is sharing my kids lives. i just feel it is too soon/too raw and issues of clarity about his intentions are not clear enough to know how this will pan out yet and meet her.

 

I only want to meet his kids properly when I know that it is definitiely happening with him. My kids are aware, independent and old enough to be cool about it if it doesn't work out. It has been good for them to meet him - he is a different type of man to their dad and has fitted in really well without making a big deal of it. A way to go yet in defining this relationship tho...

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dear carhill: The more I am reading these posts, I am thinking that perhaps i could meet her. I honestly feel I need to clarify the "deal" with him first so we both are happy that it can be sustainable. He was shaken to realise that I will follow through if there is not enough level of commitment and he has now changed what he said the other night about "if ever" leaving. I have to hold my nerve I think. Meeting her and being adult about it has to be part of this if it has a long term future.

 

It is nearly midnight here, all the comments have been so helpful to clarify the issues. i will check in tomorrow. Just about to speak to my man in his hotel now (he travels alot) so we may discuss some of these things. so glad that i posted - really focused things for me!

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desertIslandCactus
Thanks for your thoughts desertisland cactus.

I disagree that you should not remarry until children have flown. This means that if you make a mistake with the father/mother of your kids, you are stuck unhappy and unfulfilled for 20 years or so. I have met kids who say they wished their parents had split up as they were so unhappy.

 

As for MM, his kids see a model of a marriage where there is no love shown or stimulating conversation between a man and woman. I do not think this is bringing kids up in a healthy or secure environment. I would hate my kids to think this was acceptable in life. His kids have a chance to see a happy side to their dad that they cannot see with his wife.

 

thanks for your input tho. everyone has different attitudes towards a sense of duty and personal happiness (which becomes a problem when these are not compatible - which one do you choose and why?)

 

It's none of your business what you 'think' is or isn't going on in his M Lara.

 

But I am saying, Please don't involve the children in your Net .. or web.

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desertIslandCactus
It's none of your business what you 'think' is or isn't going on in his M Lara.

 

But I am saying, Please don't involve the children in your Net .. or web.

 

And to add: The OW's conception of 'love' doesn't seem to fit the true meaning .. So if you continue to consider that this pulling - is out of 'love', that is yours.

 

But please keep the children out of your scheming.

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previous short affairs and one nighters over the years (very likely and common in his occupation).
Doesn't this alarm anyone???

 

Yikes!

Edited by jthorne
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Alarm? Not really. Inform? Yes, hence why I suggested 'trust with verification'. The OP is a big girl. She's playing in the big leagues sleeping with a MM. She's aware.

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Hi Lara,

 

Welcome to LS:)...my best friends AP was in an arranged M. I am hearing more and more about them as of late. I didn't think they were as common as I am noticing recently.

 

Arranged M are wrong IMO...as for the kids, let it flow natural. I wouldn't try to push anything too soon. These kids having been living the lie with their parents..the kids themselves are not a lie, although the M is.

 

Please be careful...my best friend is broken now because of that R. He was torn trying to do the right thing by all of the parents (hers and his)...I feel so bad for those involved in these arranged M's and wouldn't have a clue as to how to deal with the kids...they have to be hurting horribly.

 

I have to bring up also what JT quoted...please make sure that this is right for you...k...:)

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firstly, want to say how wise and supportive the words are on this forum. Thanks to all!

 

Just have a q about how to make the leaving the kids thing easier for MM.

 

My MM: married for 16 years (arranged marriage - he v westernised, atheist, she not v westernised, never worked and muslim. he only married reluctantly after being cut of by his pakistani parents for 2 years cos he refused). 3 kids (age 2,8 and 10). previous short affairs and one nighters over the years (very likely and common in his occupation).

 

me: had been single for 2 years after awful relationship wi commitment phobic man but i left (after 6 years!) and rebuilt my life and happier than ever. 2 great kids 12 and 15 who i have half the time.

 

known MM for 2 years, started relationship 8 months ago, cautiously (my 1st MM!). Now: we adore eachother, soulmates. me now going through miscarriage - half planned and wanted but misguided for obvious reasons, so m/c is best outcome. However, has acted as huge catalyst and has opened my eyes to the situation. Need to sort it out so I don't go through pain and repeat my previous 6 years with unavailable man! (learning from my lessons)

 

having read many of the posts here, I see I am 100% right to be questioning this relationship (to the point of finishing if it does not change).

 

MM wants to be with me "forever", told his wife about me 4 months ago, sees me everyday when he is in UK, skype or talk when away, spend half his nights with me. Sees me as life partner.

 

Big problem though. Adores his kids, little time in UK and says he has problems not being there for them. he is changeable about if/when he will be able to leave. I stress that we need to work out arrangement where his new home (wi me) is where he sees his kids, rather than at home wi his wife.

 

I know that the leaving issue is vital - I am not going to hang around too long, have to decide exactly how long I will allow him for "transition" before I cut off (which i will no matter how much it hurts).

 

Question is: has anyone had any experience of making the issue of him seeing his kids less hard for the MM? He wants to keep everything stable for them and see them in their home environment, but I know this is alias for "I can't leave home", so I cannot accept this. I have met them once and he has been talking about us doing stuff together as the first real stage of bringing everything together.

 

Still unsure about if what he has done already really indicates that this could have a happy ending or if he is stalling and how much of a risk it is for me to give him, say, a "year" of transition. what do you think?

 

Thank you and respect in advance!

 

i know she knows, have no doubt as he has been having a very hard time with this, obviously. No direct contact - i dont think that is fair on her and i dont particularly want it. I have always said the focus is on how he resolves his marriage in itself, it should not be about me (although it is)

 

My parameters are mostly about how i feel about his lack of commitment to me. I have had a bad time with this in the past (which I dont want to load onto this new relationship) but when I am feeling vulnerable (like now!) it begins to freak me out and makes me unhappy. I was very emotionally damaged in my last relationship and cannot afford for me and my kids to go down the pan again. My emotions tell me when I am unhappy and I periodically force the issue when my instinct gets worried.

 

He has already told her - that is one parameter, passed. BUT am wary that he may think that this is enough.

 

Staying nights with me is another. I have said I don't mind how long he sees them during the day when he is in the UK, but to have some sense of where his new base is. I need more space in my house so we have talked about getting the loft done - the practicalities are tricky. We have also talked about moving but these are long term and scary things for both of us and I have become aware that it is me who brings the topic up and initiates this "real" talk more. He is obviously scared and daunted by it (as i am) but i have said we need to at least get some plan together/timescale.

 

i have this week initiated NC as he indicated that i should not expect him moving out "too soon" and "if ever". he said these things after another row at home and problems with his kids. For me it is unacceptable to have an "if ever" hanging over me/us and I said that it probably means closure for us. He has since come back and said it would take at least a year, with no guarantee although he wishes that was possible. I am just trying to work through what my bottom line is so we can negotiate. But i do know that I need to feel that he has the intention and see real actions that show progress. The living environment and enabling him to have a relationship with his kids in "our" home is part of moving this on, so perhaps i need to accept that as long as this is happening more and more, that it will take a fair amount of time.

 

As long as we make a plan and i see he is following through, that should keep my alarm bells from ringing. Sometimes there are other things making me feel insecure, so i am trying to address these so i can be balanced about this process of change.

 

I believe that he has told his kids that he has feelings for me as they found some photos of us on his computer. so they should know that i indicate change for them, although he has been woefully laissez fair about things, wanting to do this gently, but my fear is that he will never be able to leave if he does not envisage it working in any other way. For some reason he finds it really hard to separate the kids form his house and wife. He has a lovely house and i know it is a huge thing for him to give up. Finding a solution to this is tough, and I dont want to be so hard line that I suffocate it... or too soft that i let him have OW and wife at home.

 

really appreciate your input - have had a really tough time this week with gynae problems assoc with m/c, but facing facts and picking apart the probs is really helpful!

 

So the 8 and 10 year old know daddy has a girlfriend? Are you kidding?

 

This guy isn't leaving at least from my view so worrying about logistics is way premature. He has told you he won't be leaving for a while - IF EVER. But you are off and running worrying about where people will stay.

 

His children - the ones he claims to care so much for - yet he spends HOW MUCH TIME WITH YOU and not with them??? Come on - don't you see that as hypocritical of him? He is USING THEM as an excuse for why you are not his girlfriend - you are his mistress.

 

And your kids - who are teenagers - know that mom is seeing a married guy? Is this the message you want YOUR kids to have? I know you have issues with how HIS kids are viewing marriage, which is funny since you have no idea what goes on in their home as you aren't there. You are going by the word of a known cheater.

 

I would bet his wife doesn't know that you are still seeing her husband. I would bet that if she did - his butt would have been kicked to the curb a while ago.

 

I think you are not focusing on reality - you are in fantasy land of this big happy family. This guy isn't leaving - he has told you so - at least for "a while, if ever".

 

 

TBH, I'd have a problem with my children being exposed to 'sleepovers' with a strange person. I can't think of one single mother I dated who allowed that, whether sex was involved or not. I respected that. Perhaps your culture/custom is different. One more parameter to consider, that being your children coming to see MM as the 'man' in your life.

 

Hope it works out :)

 

agree!!! and many people have it put in writing in the divorce that no sleepovers are allowed when the children are present.

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"Arranged M are wrong IMO..."

 

yes, absolutely. I felt so sad for him that he was thrown out of his home when as a young man he felt it was wrong to marry someone from pakistan who he would never have been friends with even. Sadly for him, his was the most ill matched of the family pairings, and he has never had anything in common with her apart from making kids of course. spent most of his life immersing himself in sport and working away. re his past infidelities: these are a result of having v low fulfillment in this M. It doesn't frighten me because i have been with a terrible liar in the past (and got out eventually!) and know all the signs. infidelity happens when communication and respect has broken down from one or both sides (or never existed). MM and I talk about everything and have already worked through lots of difficulties really well. I trust him deeply (might be naive and is really unusual for me but have gone with my instinct). imperfect yes (as we all are), but with honest communication i dont see that this is a personality trait, merely a man looking for whatever comfort he could find in those unhappy circumstances (and as i say the norm for many in the industry - he is a pilot). i never feel insecure when he is away, we talk all the time and i know he loves me to bits. that is amazing considering the battering my trust had in my previous relationship.

 

"I have to bring up also what JT quoted...please make sure that this is right for you...k...:)

"

 

thanks for the concern! eyes wide open...

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desertIslandCactus
Judging another cultural practices are wrong, imo. They may be quite abnormal to our western eyes, but are still common in many cultures. My grandparents were arranged, they met each other for the first time the day of their wedding. And spent the rest of their lives together.

 

I have to wonder, though, since it is not uncommon in his occupation to have affairs and one night trysts are you accepting of him sleeping around on you? I just find it interesting that you justify his affairs, which leaves me with the impression that you would be understanding if he did it to you. =/

 

Also, it is not your business on how to deal with the kids. That is between the MM and his wife. If his wife does not want you to meet them or be around them just yet, you should politely bow out.

 

I agree Lisa.

 

It does not matter the circumstances under which two marry. The marriage covenant is of God, and should be respected as such. It is closed.

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He isn't going to go against his religion and family, and sorry to say this, but I don't believe he will leave his wife, divorce her and move his children in to your place, so you can be step mom to his children. His wife won't allow that.

 

Also, I take it you're not Muslim? Another reason why his family won't accept you. If he has to choose, do you truly believe he will give up the life he knows, his community, his wife, family unit as one to be with you?

 

Sorry but I think he's in it for an affair. He's happy that you are the OW, you provide something for him. Right now he's all talk and sadly for you, that's all it's going to be.

 

If you push him or take matters into your own hands, he will dump you and make it look like you were the one chasing him, and throw you under the bus.

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