Lunch Topic/Question for OW and BW

[herenow]

I had lunch with a couple of close friends today. All three of us are BW's and the topic came up because of Sandra and Jessie.

 

I have seen posts on LS claiming that all men will cheat if given the chance. What if that is true? I don't really think that is the case, but for now, let's just says it is. If all men cheat, then all wives are BW's. If all wives are BW's then maybe it's just the way it is. What does that mean to the BW's? If it's true, then it would mean that once married, we would have to accept that it's inevitable that a husband will have an affair. Should we take it personally if it's just part of married life? I really don't know. In some way if BW's knew that all men cheat, then I think it would take some of the pain of betrayal away. It would also help the BW with the question "why did he do it?". The answer would be, because that is what all MM do.

 

How would it make an OW feel knowing that all MM cheat (if that is indeed the truth)?

[herenow]

I'm not sure I buy into the theory that all men cheat.

 

I'm not sure I do either, but I have no proof that it isn't true. I want to believe it isn't true. But what if it is?

[BlueeyedJonesy]

Not all men cheat..there are plenty out there who stay faithfull..I remember at one of my lowest points I tried to convince myself of it tho..

[herenow]

Not all men cheat..there are plenty out there who stay faithfull..I remember at one of my lowest points I tried to convince myself of it tho..

 

I believe you are correct, but some here have said that all men cheat (or would if given the chance), so I'm just exploring the idea. Open mind and all that. Plus, we were discussing it at lunch and it was interesting how each of us felt if that was reality. Just seems like there is so much of it in the news and IRL, that there is a chance it could be true. I have no idea because I only know my own situation for sure.

Edited March 25, 2010 by herenow

[jwi71]

I'm not sure I do either, but I have no proof that it isn't true. I want to believe it isn't true. But what if it is?

 

I am living proof.

 

I lived in SE Asia for years...I'm talking Vietnam, Cambodia, Malayasa, Indonesia, Thailand...poor third world countries where many, if not most, women have few options.

 

One option is becoming a westerner's wife. Or mistress. Better yet is to get pregnant by westerner. Means money. Its a career option.

 

Being married and passably attractive, I had more than a few chances.

 

NEVER bit.

 

JW

[herenow]

I am living proof.

 

I lived in SE Asia for years...I'm talking Vietnam, Cambodia, Malayasa, Indonesia, Thailand...poor third world countries where many, if not most, women have few options.

 

One option is becoming a westerner's wife. Or mistress. Better yet is to get pregnant by westerner. Means money. Its a career option.

 

Being married and passably attractive, I had more than a few chances.

 

NEVER bit.

 

JW

 

 

Awesome! Thank you. Now when people post that everyone can be a cheater, you will be my hero.

[Fallen Angel]

Everyone CAN be a cheater, it is just that not everyone CHOOSES to be.

 

Now.. to the question posed. I am wondering if the point you are getting at is that ...if based on the theory that every MM is a cheater, then the OW is/are disposable and easily interchangable. Is that how that is supposed to make us feel?

 

If I was not certain how much My Sweetheart loved me, (ME, not any random woman but ME) then I suppose the theory of all MM cheat would make me feel that way. But I know I am loved by him; loved, not liked, not some "peice on the side". I am loved and by virtue of that love I know I am not disposable and not easily interchanged with another woman.

 

So that theory does not change how I feel.

[herenow]

Everyone CAN be a cheater, it is just that not everyone CHOOSES to be.

 

Now.. to the question posed. I am wondering if the point you are getting at is that ...if based on the theory that every MM is a cheater, then the OW is/are disposable and easily interchangable. Is that how that is supposed to make us feel?

 

If I was not certain how much My Sweetheart loved me, (ME, not any random woman but ME) then I suppose the theory of all MM cheat would make me feel that way. But I know I am loved by him; loved, not liked, not some "peice on the side". I am loved and by virtue of that love I know I am not disposable and not easily interchanged with another woman.

 

So that theory does not change how I feel.

 

No, actually I was thinking more along the lines of affairs not being so taboo if it was just an accepted fact that all men do it. But, you can feel how ever you want. How interesting that you took this as a slam to OW's. I would think that society would feel differently about affairs (MM, BW and OW alike) if it was fact that they are to be expected.

[Snowflower]

How sad that your two friends are also BW, herenow. I have no close friends who are BW (that I know of anyyway). I agree that it would make me think (at least in my weaker moments) that yes, all men eventually cheat.

 

In reality though, I don't think all men eventually cheat.

 

You know though, up until fairly recently, it was kind of an unspoken 'given' that many husbands had mistresses and the whole 'boys will be boys' attitude was more accepted. At that point, society (and women) just kind of put up with it and looked the other way.

 

Once women became more "liberated" (I hate that term but I'm too tired to think of anything else), began working outside the home, became more educated, divorce became less taboo, then voila, men seemed to be less inclined to cheat on their wives. It seemed to be no longer tacitly accepted. Hmm....

 

Maybe men finally got concerned that their 'boys will be boys' behavior would cost them!

[bentnotbroken]

Everyone CAN be a cheater, it is just that not everyone CHOOSES to be.

 

Now.. to the question posed. I am wondering if the point you are getting at is that ...if based on the theory that every MM is a cheater, then the OW is/are disposable and easily interchangable. Is that how that is supposed to make us feel?

 

If I was not certain how much My Sweetheart loved me, (ME, not any random woman but ME) then I suppose the theory of all MM cheat would make me feel that way. But I know I am loved by him; loved, not liked, not some "peice on the side". I am loved and by virtue of that love I know I am not disposable and not easily interchanged with another woman.

 

So that theory does not change how I feel.

 

 

That's not what I got from her post. If I understand correctly she was asking if all men do cheat and BW's just accepted it then the power of the or taboo would be removed from A's. If everyone were aware that A's WILL happen so it isn't a shock to anyone. No despair, just the expected course of action.

[moaningmyrtle]

I had lunch with a couple of close friends today. All three of us are BW's and the topic came up because of Sandra and Jessie.

 

I have seen posts on LS claiming that all men will cheat if given the chance. What if that is true? I don't really think that is the case, but for now, let's just says it is. If all men cheat, then all wives are BW's. If all wives are BW's then maybe it's just the way it is. What does that mean to the BW's? If it's true, then it would mean that once married, we would have to accept that it's inevitable that a husband will have an affair. Should we take it personally if it's just part of married life? I really don't know. In some way if BW's knew that all men cheat, then I think it would take some of the pain of betrayal away. It would also help the BW with the question "why did he do it?". The answer would be, because that is what all MM do.

 

How would it make an OW feel knowing that all MM cheat (if that is indeed the truth)?

 

If all men do cheat then either all women cheat too (or will if given an opportunity) - or some women must be serial cheaters with more men, than the men have women - complicated!

[moaningmyrtle]

I had lunch with a couple of close friends today. All three of us are BW's and the topic came up because of Sandra and Jessie.

 

I have seen posts on LS claiming that all men will cheat if given the chance. What if that is true? I don't really think that is the case, but for now, let's just says it is. If all men cheat, then all wives are BW's. If all wives are BW's then maybe it's just the way it is. What does that mean to the BW's? If it's true, then it would mean that once married, we would have to accept that it's inevitable that a husband will have an affair. Should we take it personally if it's just part of married life? I really don't know. In some way if BW's knew that all men cheat, then I think it would take some of the pain of betrayal away. It would also help the BW with the question "why did he do it?". The answer would be, because that is what all MM do.

 

How would it make an OW feel knowing that all MM cheat (if that is indeed the truth)?

 

If all (or nearly all) men cheat then it must mean that all (or nearly all) women cheat or are OW (if given the opportunity) otherwise the numbers don't add up. Alternatively it could mean that only some women cheat (or are OW) serially or in tandem, and actually have a bigger turnover of men, than cheating men do women. Hmm... sounds complicated.

[awkward]

If everyone accepted that everyone has or will cheat, I think there would be a lot less people getting married. Maybe the vows could just be re-written but what would be the point of getting married unless everyone wanted an open marriage?

[Heather1]

My H & I talk about this. It's been this way since the beginning of time, and it's never going to stop, so why not re-think expectations? The ideal is monogomy, which few are able to pull off for life. It's almost like if you give a teen birth control are they then going to sleep around? If you give someone the get out of jail free card for an A are they going to take you up on it? Depends on the person. I know for sure if someone is jealous & possesive for unjust reasons, that will push someone into an A faster then the free pass.

 

I'm 47 & have seen lots of M fail for different reasons. If someone has no regard for the M & is a serial cheater, that's a different beast. I think the high expectations, values, and morals we set ourselves up for are hard to acheive....not impossible. It's asking for perfection, no matter what life throws in your way to make us less perfect. Then we also have a built in chemistry where all logic goes out the window-a natural thing with attraction. Throw in an accidental opportunity & KABOOM. Then to top it off, it's really hard to get out of!! Then it's an addiction.

I have no doubts my xom loves his wife. She's done things (like move her family in) she shouldn't have done. Now that reality is setting in for both of us it's clear we were in the wrong place at the wrong time. It was a split second...but he loves his wife.

To err is human, to forgive divine. That, and I hope we both learned this wasn't the answer.

[herenow]

How sad that your two friends are also BW, herenow. I have no close friends who are BW (that I know of anyyway). I agree that it would make me think (at least in my weaker moments) that yes, all men eventually cheat.

 

In reality though, I don't think all men eventually cheat.

 

You know though, up until fairly recently, it was kind of an unspoken 'given' that many husbands had mistresses and the whole 'boys will be boys' attitude was more accepted. At that point, society (and women) just kind of put up with it and looked the other way.

 

Once women became more "liberated" (I hate that term but I'm too tired to think of anything else), began working outside the home, became more educated, divorce became less taboo, then voila, men seemed to be less inclined to cheat on their wives. It seemed to be no longer tacitly accepted. Hmm....

 

Maybe men finally got concerned that their 'boys will be boys' behavior would cost them!

 

Interesting take. I can see your point, but I think that more women in the work place actually created more opportunity for affairs to happen with both men and women.

 

I didn't know how many marriages were effected by affairs until mine was. You never know.

[herenow]

That's not what I got from her post. If I understand correctly she was asking if all men do cheat and BW's just accepted it then the power of the or taboo would be removed from A's. If everyone were aware that A's WILL happen so it isn't a shock to anyone. No despair, just the expected course of action.

 

Yup, that's kind of where I was going. It would be a sad reality if that was the case. I still have faith in marriage and I hope it isn't true. Just pondering a hypothetical situation. It was an interesting conversation at lunch, so I thought it might be as interesting here. If FA took it as a slam to OW's, it certainly wasn't my intent. Quite the opposite actually.

[Snowflower]

Interesting take. I can see your point, but I think that more women in the work place actually created more opportunity for affairs to happen with both men and women.

 

I didn't know how many marriages were effected by affairs until mine was. You never know.

 

Good point...and it does seem that many affairs begin the work place.

 

Yes, it seems affairs impact more marriages than we ever realize. I never gave infidelity a whole lot of serious thought until it happened in my marriage. I always naively assumed that it would never happen in my own marriage.

[pureinheart]

I had lunch with a couple of close friends today. All three of us are BW's and the topic came up because of Sandra and Jessie.

 

 

 

I have seen posts on LS claiming that all men will cheat if given the chance. What if that is true? I don't really think that is the case, but for now, let's just says it is. If all men cheat, then all wives are BW's.

 

HN, I worked with a lot of men in my entire career and not all men have A's...now I do have to say that I hear how they talk (some looked at me as "one of the guys"), and they definitely LOOK, and make comments about how they would like to ...you know what.

 

 

If all wives are BW's then maybe it's just the way it is. What does that mean to the BW's? If it's true, then it would mean that once married, we would have to accept that it's inevitable that a husband will have an affair. Should we take it personally if it's just part of married life?

 

Could it be just "me"....almost all of my R's there was and extra R A. I am beginning to feel a bit slighted here.

 

 

I really don't know. In some way if BW's knew that all men cheat, then I think it would take some of the pain of betrayal away. It would also help the BW with the question "why did he do it?". The answer would be, because that is what all MM do.

 

After the big "sweep" in the 80's, most of us began to get older so a lot of the guys quit cheating...they were always flirtatious though. Most of the guys were true blue ....OH!!!!! HN, there was this one HOT guy OMG we would all drool when he walked through the hanger (I don't drool too often, in fact my daughters dad was the first one I ever drooled over)...and as God as my witness, this HOT guy NEVER looked at another girl and was the most repectful guy I'd ever seen.

 

How would it make an OW feel knowing that all MM cheat (if that is indeed the truth)?

 

Not too hot I would imagine....

 

 

 

[/QUOTE]

 

Here's a question on the same lines....do you think the media, and it's idea of what both men and women should look like, meaning the physical appearance pressure has anything to do with men "looking" more than they normally would?

[herenow]

Good point...and it does seem that many affairs begin the work place.

 

Yes, it seems affairs impact more marriages than we ever realize. I never gave infidelity a whole lot of serious thought until it happened in my marriage. I always naively assumed that it would never happen in my own marriage.

 

I think many of us feel that way. It just seems like there is so much of it in the news. Is it just that I listen more since my H's affair? Has it always been this way? Or, are affairs becoming more prevalent?

[pureinheart]

Good point...and it does seem that many affairs begin the work place.

 

Yes, it seems affairs impact more marriages than we ever realize. I never gave infidelity a whole lot of serious thought until it happened in my marriage. I always naively assumed that it would never happen in my own marriage.

 

Wow, SF...I had only read HN's OP and none others...just used the workplace as an example....

[pureinheart]

I believe you are correct, but some here have said that all men cheat (or would if given the chance), so I'm just exploring the idea. Open mind and all that. Plus, we were discussing it at lunch and it was interesting how each of us felt if that was reality. Just seems like there is so much of it in the news and IRL, that there is a chance it could be true. I have no idea because I only know my own situation for sure.

 

 

No that is not true, as I saw A LOT of stuff at work and partying after work...nope.

 

Let's just put it this way...there is ample opportunity, although it is not entered into as much as communicated.

[herenow]

How would it make an OW feel knowing that all MM cheat (if that is indeed the truth)?

 

Not too hot I would imagine....

 

 

 

[/QUOTE]

 

Here's a question on the same lines....do you think the media, and it's idea of what both men and women should look like, meaning the physical appearance pressure has anything to do with men "looking" more than they normally would?

 

OMG, the flashing pink thing saying I won is giving me a headache! Please make it stop!

 

Anyway, I think different people are attracted to different things. I'm not sure affairs have much to do with looks.

[herenow]

No that is not true, as I saw A LOT of stuff at work and partying after work...nope.

 

Let's just put it this way...there is ample opportunity, although it is not entered into as much as communicated.

 

That's the way I see things at work as well. But when I was honest with people I trust about my H's affair, I was surprised at some of the honesty I got back. I would like to think that what I see is reality (that many men are faithful), but know really knows for sure? Again, exploring a hypothetical that may or may not be reality.

[pureinheart]

That's not what I got from her post. If I understand correctly she was asking if all men do cheat and BW's just accepted it then the power of the or taboo would be removed from A's. If everyone were aware that A's WILL happen so it isn't a shock to anyone. No despair, just the expected course of action.

 

Wow...how do I put this properly....it wasn't a "shock" to me because I knew it could happen, as I had been hurt in dating R's all of the time...man BBNB, I began to think there was something wrong with me...you know?

 

Bent, I think I got used to it....wow

 

Thanks HN, thinking there is gonna be some healing from this topic...and possibly greater understanding.

 

It is one thing to be in a "wrong" M and one of the S's finds another...yet A's in almost every R I've ever had....

 

Hope this isn't a tj HN, but I am getting a lot out of this....

[herenow]

How would it make an OW feel knowing that all MM cheat (if that is indeed the truth)?

 

Not too hot I would imagine....

 

 

 

[/QUOTE]

 

Sorry, I wanted to comment on this. I would think if society accepted that affairs are inevitable it would make being an OW less taboo (for lack of a better word). I hope you know what I mean.