Split Self Affairs

[moaningmyrtle]

There has been some discussion about these so I read up a little about it.

 

Rather than t/j one of the others where this is being discussed I thought I'd start my own - I can't remember if there was a thread devoted to it before so I may be going over old ground.

 

Looking at it I really believe that my H was this type of personality and had a split self affair.

 

I guess nothing is ever a perfect fit but he seems to have many of the characteristics of such a WH and I seem to fit the characteristics of the BW of such a person. One thing my H has not done is the flip-flop, but that is almost certainly because the A had already ended before our d-day. I suspect had I found out about it at its height then the flip-flop would have happened. My H would have completely agonised over it as did his father and grandfather before him.

 

His father went back and forth between his wife and OW and eventually left my MIL to marry the OW. Ten years later - no surprises - he left the OW (2nd wife) and returned to his first wife. My H's grandfather actually had 2 women with 2 families going for much of his adult life. Both women knew about the other. He remained married to his wife and participated in family life with their 4 children (and later grandchildren) until his death.

 

Meanwhile my FIL was the only child of the OW - but he and his children (my H etc) did not know of the existence of the legitimate family until after his father's death. As you can see I have a little experience of this situation from my own life and that of my H's family extending back for 3 generations now.

 

Anyway back to the split-self affair. It is much as Jennie and FA have portrayed it on here. However from my perspective they have slanted it just a little to imply that somehow only the OW is capable of meeting the emotional/loving needs of the MM and that it is only the OW with whom the MM shares the true emotional bond and that it is really the OW and the OW only, that the MM can ever be happy with. The impression is given that such a MM if he stays with his W will be denying his true emotional self. That is not the way I read it.

 

My interpretation is that while he (and the BW and OW) may see it as choosing the "right" woman, the therapist's goal is to enable him (and apparently it's nearly always a man) to heal/resolve the split within himself. This seemingly takes time and a lot of therapy (the cynic in me says more money for the therapist).

 

If this is successful, then the MM will then be able to work on establishing the appropriate level of emotional intimacy but there's nothing to say it has to be with the OW. It can also be the BW but she too will need to work on issues within the marriage. Apparently it is recommend that such a man end the A while he does this and often time on his own is also recommend (I know somebody suggested this idea was ridiculous on this forum in the last day or so).

 

Looking at my own family (or rather my H's family), my H's grandfather must have flip-flopped until the day he died. My FIL continued the flip-flop for a very long time and my H never had the opportunity because d-day occurred after the A ended. I don't know how it will turn out with my H - we are working on it and are quite successful. When I say working on it I mean specifically in repairing the emotional disconnect between us. So far it is very rewarding for both of us. Perhaps we are fortunate because there is no OW to derail the process.

 

Maybe I'll report back in a few years.

 

One last thing - some of the theory about split-self may explain what happens, but in my view it does not excuse the dishonesty, betrayal and manipulation by the MM of the BW. Nor does it excuse in my view the participation by the OW in this, even if just on a passive level such as waiting out the BW. This is one thing as BW I simply just cannot understand. Putting it personally, I am a nice person (affectionate, sexual, loving, caring, kind, warm) who had grown disconnected from my H. I really want to repair the emotional/intimate/physical disconnection between us and I am trying really, really hard. If there was a OW waiting in the wings just waiting for us to fail or for me to give up, then quite possibly we would fail.

 

Personally I couldn't do it, as it would require a level of self-deception and indifference that I'm incapable of achieving.

Edited February 21, 2010 by moaningmyrtle

[pureinheart]

There has been some discussion about these so I read up a little about it.

 

Rather than t/j one of the others where this is being discussed I thought I'd start my own - I can't remember if there was a thread devoted to it before so I may be going over old ground.

 

Looking at it I really believe that my H was this type of personality and had a split self affair.

 

I guess nothing is ever a perfect fit but he seems to have many of the characteristics of such a WH and I seem to fit the characteristics of the BW of such a person. One thing my H has not done is the flip-flop, but that is almost certainly because the A had already ended before our d-day. I suspect had I found out about it at its height then the flip-flop would have happened. My H would have completely agonised over it as did his father and grandfather before him.

 

His father went back and forth between his wife and OW and eventually left my MIL to marry the OW. Ten years later - no surprises - he left the OW (2nd wife) and returned to his first wife. My H's grandfather actually had 2 women with 2 families going for much of his adult life. Both women knew about the other. He remained married to his wife and participated in family life with their 4 children (and later grandchildren) until his death.

 

Meanwhile my FIL was the only child of the OW - but he and his children (my H etc) did not know of the existence of the legitimate family until after his father's death. As you can see I have a little experience of this situation from my own life and that of my H's family extending back for 3 generations now.

 

Anyway back to the split-self affair. It is much as Jennie and FA have portrayed it on here. However from my perspective they have slanted it just a little to imply that somehow only the OW is capable of meeting the emotional/loving needs of the MM and that it is only the OW with whom the MM shares the true emotional bond and that it is really the OW and the OW only, that the MM can ever be happy with. The impression is given that such a MM if he stays with his W will be denying his true emotional self. That is not the way I read it.

 

My interpretation is that while he (and the BW and OW) may see it as choosing the "right" woman, the therapist's goal is to enable him (and apparently it's nearly always a man) to heal/resolve the split within himself. This seemingly takes time and a lot of therapy (the cynic in me says more money for the therapist).

 

If this is successful, then the MM will then be able to work on establishing the appropriate level of emotional intimacy but there's nothing to say it has to be with the OW. It can also be the BW but she too will need to work on issues within the marriage. Apparently it is recommend that such a man end the A while he does this and often time on his own is also recommend (I know somebody suggested this idea was ridiculous on this forum in the last day or so).

 

Looking at my own family (or rather my H's family), my H's grandfather must have flip-flopped until the day he died. My FIL continued the flip-flop for a very long time and my H never had the opportunity because d-day occurred after the A ended. I don't know how it will turn out with my H - we are working on it and are quite successful. When I say working on it I mean specifically in repairing the emotional disconnect between us. So far it is very rewarding for both of us. Perhaps we are fortunate because there is no OW to derail the process.

 

Maybe I'll report back in a few years.

 

One last thing - some of the theory about split-self may explain what happens, but in my view it does not excuse the dishonesty, betrayal and manipulation by the MM of the BW. Nor does it excuse in my view the participation by the OW in this, even if just on a passive level such as waiting out the BW. This is one thing as BW I simply just cannot understand. Putting it personally, I am a nice person (affectionate, sexual, loving, caring, kind, warm) who had grown disconnected from my H. I really want to repair the emotional/intimate/physical disconnection between us and I am trying really, really hard. If there was a OW waiting in the wings just waiting for us to fail or for me to give up, then quite possibly we would fail.

 

Personally I couldn't do it, as it would require a level of self-deception and indifference that I'm incapable of achieving.

 

Hi Moaning...wow...this seems to be a generational thing (first bold).

 

It could have been the disconnection that you mentioned that gave way to the A....not by any means saying it was your fault, only he knows if he used it for an excuse or if that was really it...anyway, I don' think he's gonna go there again...Moaning I can't tell you why, although it's this gut feeling that I just can't deny with him...I know anyone can do anything at anytime, once, twice, three times ect....but I don't think he will again.

 

He's not going anywhere..... Good post Moaning

[moaningmyrtle]

Hi Moaning...wow...this seems to be a generational thing (first bold).

 

Yes it's hard not to see a connection.

 

It could have been the disconnection that you mentioned that gave way to the A....not by any means saying it was your fault, only he knows if he used it for an excuse or if that was really it...anyway, I don' think he's gonna go there again...Moaning I can't tell you why, although it's this gut feeling that I just can't deny with him...I know anyone can do anything at anytime, once, twice, three times ect....but I don't think he will again.

 

He's not going anywhere..... Good post Moaning

 

I'm trying hard to resolve problems in our M that can be laid at my door.

 

Yes he used it as an excuse/reason. Thanks for telling me your gut feeling but only time will tell. I have always been a great believer in my intuition or gut feeling (call it what you may). I had always felt it was pretty good.

 

One thing the A did is show me just how unreliable my gut feeling is, as finding out about the A completely blindsided me - I honestly had no idea and it had been going on right under my nose for years. [but my H tried harder than for anything else ever in his life, to keep it a secret from me - he succeeded until d-day]

[jennie-jennie]

Myrtle, I don't think I slanted the Split Self affair like you say I did. Here is a quote from a post of mine in the earlier Split Self thread:

 

"From what I have understood, both spouses have the same problem with the split self, ie the split between 'doing the right thing' and the emotional self. Both spouses want to have the perfect family and have pushed aside their own needs for a long time, probably for the whole duration of their marriage.

 

The difference is how they handle this. One partner seeks out an affair, the other partner might offload themselves by talking to one of the children as their emotional support. Both spouses need IC. If only one of them goes to IC and the other one does not, it will be difficult to save the marriage.

 

The WS finds his emotional self through the AP, but this is just a temporary solution. He needs to join these two parts of himself inside himself. As it is now he has a sense of family with his spouse and a sense of emotional self with the AP. It looks like the problem is which woman to choose, but in fact the problem lies within himself."

[jennie-jennie]

My interpretation is that while he (and the BW and OW) may see it as choosing the "right" woman, the therapist's goal is to enable him (and apparently it's nearly always a man) to heal/resolve the split within himself. This seemingly takes time and a lot of therapy (the cynic in me says more money for the therapist).

 

If this is successful, then the MM will then be able to work on establishing the appropriate level of emotional intimacy but there's nothing to say it has to be with the OW. It can also be the BW but she too will need to work on issues within the marriage. Apparently it is recommend that such a man end the A while he does this and often time on his own is also recommend (I know somebody suggested this idea was ridiculous on this forum in the last day or so).

 

I am trying to understand what you wrote above. IC is what is primarily recommended for the Split Self spouse. In fact I believe it is recommended not to have MC as long as the WS is indecisive whether or not to stay in the marriage and whether or not to end the affair. I don't think I have seen anything written about a recommendation to end the affair at this stage either. Are you talking about later? When the WS has healed within and now knows he wants to stay in the marriage?

 

"Couples work (not marital therapy) can supplement individual therapy. Even though the affair is a continuing shadow in the background, an assessment of whether they want to salvage the marriage can be initiated. Even though the affair is continuing, taking a look at the marriage together can be extremely useful."

(Emily Brown, Patterns of Infidelity and Their Treatment)

[moaningmyrtle]

Myrtle, I don't think I slanted the Split Self affair like you say I did. Here is a quote from a post of mine in the earlier Split Self thread:

 

"From what I have understood, both spouses have the same problem with the split self, ie the split between 'doing the right thing' and the emotional self. Both spouses want to have the perfect family and have pushed aside their own needs for a long time, probably for the whole duration of their marriage.

 

The difference is how they handle this. One partner seeks out an affair, the other partner might offload themselves by talking to one of the children as their emotional support. Both spouses need IC. If only one of them goes to IC and the other one does not, it will be difficult to save the marriage.

 

The WS finds his emotional self through the AP, but this is just a temporary solution. He needs to join these two parts of himself inside himself. As it is now he has a sense of family with his spouse and a sense of emotional self with the AP. It looks like the problem is which woman to choose, but in fact the problem lies within himself."

 

Yes you did say this, but I believe that in other posts you have expressed it a little differently. I will have to track down an example - can you give me a link to the other thread again please as I seem to have lost it.

 

One of my points is that it is not a foregone conclusion that such a MM will leave his wife (and I know that you have acknowledged this several times) nor is it a certainty that if he stays with his wife that this is the wrong thing to do, because he will be denying or forgoing some important part of himself or that his emotional needs will be ignored.

 

My final point is really that my own H's behaviour was utterly terrible, not only towards me but to the OW too. I realise that I am staying with such a man with some hope for his reform. This is perhaps not dissimilar to an OW who stays with a man while knowing his capacity for dishonesty, betrayal and manipulation. The main difference is that I did not participate, enable or encourage this behaviour towards another unknowing woman. Maybe it sounds to you like I think I'm superior or something but honestly I'm glad I don't have that on my conscience. This to me is a significant difference whenever the question gets asked "Aren't we just the same, BW and OW, because we both want a cheater?"

[jennie-jennie]

Anyway back to the split-self affair. It is much as Jennie and FA have portrayed it on here. However from my perspective they have slanted it just a little to imply that somehow only the OW is capable of meeting the emotional/loving needs of the MM and that it is only the OW with whom the MM shares the true emotional bond and that it is really the OW and the OW only, that the MM can ever be happy with. The impression is given that such a MM if he stays with his W will be denying his true emotional self. That is not the way I read it.

 

Perhaps the bolded part above should read:

 

"Such a MM if he stays with his W without joining the split within himself will be denying his true emotional self.

[moaningmyrtle]

I am trying to understand what you wrote above. IC is what is primarily recommended for the Split Self spouse. In fact I believe it is recommended not to have MC as long as the WS is indecisive whether or not to stay in the marriage and whether or not to end the affair. I don't think I have seen anything written about a recommendation to end the affair at this stage either. Are you talking about later? When the WS has healed within and now knows he wants to stay in the marriage?

 

"Couples work (not marital therapy) can supplement individual therapy. Even though the affair is a continuing shadow in the background, an assessment of whether they want to salvage the marriage can be initiated. Even though the affair is continuing, taking a look at the marriage together can be extremely useful."

(Emily Brown, Patterns of Infidelity and Their Treatment)

 

I got it from an article by:

 

Emily M Brown "Split Self Affairs and their Treatment" in Piercy, Hertlein and Wetchler (editors) "Handbook of the Clinical Treatment of Infidelity"

 

"The split self usually comes to the point he decides to put the affair on hold...this is not a flip-flop...during this period split selves can benefit from living alone..."

 

The suggestion is for while the split self is being "treated" ie before the guy has "chosen".

[jennie-jennie]

Yes you did say this, but I believe that in other posts you have expressed it a little differently. I will have to track down an example - can you give me a link to the other thread again please as I seem to have lost it.

 

One of my points is that it is not a foregone conclusion that such a MM will leave his wife (and I know that you have acknowledged this several times) nor is it a certainty that if he stays with his wife that this is the wrong thing to do, because he will be denying or forgoing some important part of himself or that his emotional needs will be ignored.

 

My final point is really that my own H's behaviour was utterly terrible, not only towards me but to the OW too. I realise that I am staying with such a man with some hope for his reform. This is perhaps not dissimilar to an OW who stays with a man while knowing his capacity for dishonesty, betrayal and manipulation. The main difference is that I did not participate, enable or encourage this behaviour towards another unknowing woman. Maybe it sounds to you like I think I'm superior or something but honestly I'm glad I don't have that on my conscience. This to me is a significant difference whenever the question gets asked "Aren't we just the same, BW and OW, because we both want a cheater?"

 

I too have nothing on my conscience. But then again I would never classify my MM as "a cheater" either. The way we look at extramarital relationships, at least the long term ones, most likely differs too much, Myrtle. I think I know enough about you, Myrtle, not to think that you are thinking you are superior. We just look at the world differently, and therefore we are comfortable or not with certain kinds of action.

 

The WS going through counseling might find himself wanting to stay married, wanting to move on to the OW, wanting to spend his life without both women. It is often stressed that for the marriage to survive the BS as well needs IC. I believe it is true for the OW as well, that the WS might very well outgrow her as well while working on himself in therapy.

[jennie-jennie]

I got it from an article by:

 

Emily M Brown "Split Self Affairs and their Treatment" in Piercy, Hertlein and Wetchler (editors) "Handbook of the Clinical Treatment of Infidelity"

 

"The split self usually comes to the point he decides to put the affair on hold...this is not a flip-flop...during this period split selves can benefit from living alone..."

 

The suggestion is for while the split self is being "treated" ie before the guy has "chosen".

 

Ah, but "put on hold" does not mean the same as "end", does it? I have that article, I will check it out.

[jennie-jennie]

Concerning the probability of divorce for the Split Self affair, it does say it is "above average" for this kind of affair compared to others. But then again how many percentages is that?

Edited February 21, 2010 by jennie-jennie
Grammar

[pureinheart]

I'm trying hard to resolve problems in our M that can be laid at my door.

 

Yes he used it as an excuse/reason. Thanks for telling me your gut feeling but only time will tell. I have always been a great believer in my intuition or gut feeling (call it what you may). I had always felt it was pretty good.

 

One thing the A did is show me just how unreliable my gut feeling is, as finding out about the A completely blindsided me - I honestly had no idea and it had been going on right under my nose for years. [but my H tried harder than for anything else ever in his life, to keep it a secret from me - he succeeded until d-day]

 

Moaning, if you were not aware, this may not be your intuition at fault...meaning if you are about your own business, working, cleaning, kids and so on, doing what YOU are supposed to, then he should also. If he was still the same, then you had no reason to question anything...also if you are not a suspicious person, this plays a big part also....and there is NOTHING wrong with being trusting.

 

You deserve a great deal of credit for being able to overcome the issues that you and your H have...him too BTW...lol

 

I realise this goes into different dynamics concerning communication, although remember, you were about the business of the M and things that have to be done.

 

I remember exDM finding himself in situations that he wanted rescued from...he just walked in fear constantly. ExDM was addicted to pornograghy and hated himself for it, he used to talk to me about it...there was a great desire to be ok at one time.

 

Moaning, now that the truth is known your H doesn't have to have the guilt or the excuses, nothing, he can be him now...that is why your M will work! He's got your support....

[jj33]

Thats very interesting that your H also came from a family with a history of this. The man I was involved with did as well. His father left his mother for the OW (after years of serial adultery) married the OW and they were together for over 30 years until he died a few years ago.

 

xMM said his mother was heartbroken. He is very close to her. I would say yet he does the same thing except its a different circumstance. They Both he and W discreetly have their own "friends".

[pureinheart]

I know this is a bit off topic...and this should have been posted here, as I posted something similar in BB's thread...although because the subject matters are so close, I see no reason to start a new thread...

 

I see the split self in so many things in life, like my job for instance...and thanks to you all concerning this topic because I am going to talk to my therapist about it.

 

My life has never had balance, and as far as the balance theme concerning the job I was laid off 14 times in 25yrs...one begins to think that a lack of balance is normal.

 

I believe I might have had a "split self" concerning my job. I am unable to go deep into it as I can just touch the surface, although I think there is a relation.

 

I did act accordingly because I had to, I was constantly in fear of loosing my job even though I was doing nothing to little to cause being fired. I was paranoid...two factors: 1) people were afraid of lay offs so co-workers acted out of character and there was this snitching deal going on, one of my friends got fired after 26 yrs...I was out of that particular dept at that time although this reinforced the paranoia. There are ways to set people up to get them fired, I saw it...exDM got a lot of people fired by pushing their buttons.

 

2) My job was contingent on outside behavior also, meaning if I got busted for really just about anything...traffic tickets ect...financial problems anything that most people take for granted as it's not an issue concerning their livelihood.

 

I feel like I had to hide my true self because of my job...now there is a degree that we all have to hide our "real selves" on the job, especially those that have to deal with the public (OMG, I did that and my heart goes out to ya'all!), although I see a big difference.

 

Now in R, I rarely act different, it's priddy much what you see is what you get...lol...I break all of the rules...when I meet someone within about 3 or 4 times of talking to them, they get the truth because I don't want to get attached only to find they don't like the "real" me.

 

A good example back when I was dating (age 37) ....my exfiancee...after seeing him the third time, seeing he had no kids and might want kids, I let him know I had had a hysterectomy...you know...I like surprises in the good ways....

[pureinheart]

Thats very interesting that your H also came from a family with a history of this. The man I was involved with did as well. His father left his mother for the OW (after years of serial adultery) married the OW and they were together for over 30 years until he died a few years ago.

 

xMM said his mother was heartbroken. He is very close to her. I would say yet he does the same thing except its a different circumstance. They Both he and W discreetly have their own "friends".

 

 

I think so too...in Moanings case, it is a strong in her H's family history...I think he is the one breaking that off of the generations.

[moaningmyrtle]

I think so too...in Moanings case, it is a strong in her H's family history...I think he is the one breaking that off of the generations.

 

I am sad at the thought that maybe my 2 sons might continue the pattern. My H saw his own mother utterly devastated by his father's infidelity and yet he did the same thing to me. Well not quite the same, as he has told me several times, that in his mind there was a distinction because he never ever planned to leave me (some consolation for me huh?)

 

It's something I will never understand unless there is perhaps some sort of familial tendency.

 

You commented that my H can now be himself with me. This is true and I am seeing a side of him that I had forgotten was there. I's not that it was never there to me, just that it got subsumed somewhere in the process of living.

 

Having twins represented a complete change in our lifestyle and we were so focused on them for so many years that we grew apart emotionally from each other while trying to be good parents. I think maybe both of us got lost to each other somewhere along the way.

[pureinheart]

I am sad at the thought that maybe my 2 sons might continue the pattern. My H saw his own mother utterly devastated by his father's infidelity and yet he did the same thing to me. Well not quite the same, as he has told me several times, that in his mind there was a distinction because he never ever planned to leave me (some consolation for me huh?)

 

It's something I will never understand unless there is perhaps some sort of familial tendency.

 

You commented that my H can now be himself with me. This is true and I am seeing a side of him that I had forgotten was there. I's not that it was never there to me, just that it got subsumed somewhere in the process of living.

 

Having twins represented a complete change in our lifestyle and we were so focused on them for so many years that we grew apart emotionally from each other while trying to be good parents. I think maybe both of us got lost to each other somewhere along the way.

 

Hey, it is really hard raising a family, working ect..."you bring home the bacon, fry it up in the pan, clean the pan...then you start all over again". I can't even imagine, two at a time...bigtime multi-tasking ....what about the people that have like 4, 5, and 6 babies at a time...OMG!!!!!

 

No Moaning I think your H is breaking that off of the generations....meaning your sons....this won't be passed on IMO...

[OWoman]

Thats very interesting that your H also came from a family with a history of this. The man I was involved with did as well. His father left his mother for the OW (after years of serial adultery) married the OW and they were together for over 30 years until he died a few years ago.

 

There was some research published in Science about 10, 15 years ago into whether infidelity is genetically programmed, or whether the familial link is likely to be a behaviourally learned one. There was strong evidence posited for a genetic link, though clearly an environment which supports and affirms that also helped.

 

(But, as we know, genes can predispose but not determine - many kids of alcoholics stay sober, despite possessing the incriminating gene, precisely BECAUSE they've seen the damage it does. Similarly, where infidelity has had a negative rather than a positive outcome in a family, offspring may take a principled line on such behaviour and ensure that they themselves don't do it.)

[torranceshipman]

"From what I have understood, both spouses have the same problem with the split self, ie the split between 'doing the right thing' and the emotional self. Both spouses want to have the perfect family and have pushed aside their own needs for a long time, probably for the whole duration of their marriage.

 

As it is now he has a sense of family with his spouse and a sense of emotional self with the AP. It looks like the problem is which woman to choose, but in fact the problem lies within himself."

 

Translation: you're dam right the problem lies within himself! The MM is a cake eater who WANTS a family for the security, and WANTS an A too, for the excitement. People with character would leave the family, and make a go of the A, or not start the A in the first place OR choose a life partner when they are ready to commit for life.

 

Split self is just fancy psych-speak for 'selfish cake eater.' Nothing more. I don't like this 'split self' theory as it seems to intellectualize something really simple and in some way make it more 'acceptable' (it's a condition, he needs help, he needs therapy, its a complex issue and he needs time, etc) when really it is just straightforward: weak character + selfish = cake eater. Same thing.

[moaningmyrtle]

Translation: you're dam right the problem lies within himself! The MM is a cake eater who WANTS a family for the security, and WANTS an A too, for the excitement. People with character would leave the family, and make a go of the A, or not start the A in the first place OR choose a life partner when they are ready to commit for life.

 

Split self is just fancy psych-speak for 'selfish cake eater.' Nothing more. I don't like this 'split self' theory as it seems to intellectualize something really simple and in some way make it more 'acceptable' (it's a condition, he needs help, he needs therapy, its a complex issue and he needs time, etc) when really it is just straightforward: weak character + selfish = cake eater. Same thing.

 

I've already said something similar on another thread using slightly different words.

 

I believe that my H is enough like the description to qualify (given of course that this is my opinion and not in any sense a formal diagnosis). I am not under many illusions about what he is and what he has done. So if I'm correct (and I believe I am) I am "living" this just as much as any OW.

 

To me the proof of the pudding is when d-day occurs and the MM stops lying to his wife. If a pseudo d-day occurs, and by that I mean one where he gaslights his wife that he is faithful, that doesn't count in my view.

 

I feel a bit sad at the thought that OW who would not otherwise be happy sharing a man and not otherwise be typical backstabbers use it to justify his behaviour and possibly their own as well.

[jennie-jennie]

Translation: you're dam right the problem lies within himself! The MM is a cake eater who WANTS a family for the security, and WANTS an A too, for the excitement. People with character would leave the family, and make a go of the A, or not start the A in the first place OR choose a life partner when they are ready to commit for life.

 

Split self is just fancy psych-speak for 'selfish cake eater.' Nothing more. I don't like this 'split self' theory as it seems to intellectualize something really simple and in some way make it more 'acceptable' (it's a condition, he needs help, he needs therapy, its a complex issue and he needs time, etc) when really it is just straightforward: weak character + selfish = cake eater. Same thing.

 

Why does this talk about weak character sound very much to me like how we used to talk about alcoholics? We have come a long way in how we view the alcoholic, perhaps we need to show compassion and understanding for the WS as well.

[jennie-jennie]

I've already said something similar on another thread using slightly different words.

 

I believe that my H is enough like the description to qualify (given of course that this is my opinion and not in any sense a formal diagnosis). I am not under many illusions about what he is and what he has done. So if I'm correct (and I believe I am) I am "living" this just as much as any OW.

 

To me the proof of the pudding is when d-day occurs and the MM stops lying to his wife. If a pseudo d-day occurs, and by that I mean one where he gaslights his wife that he is faithful, that doesn't count in my view.

 

I feel a bit sad at the thought that OW who would not otherwise be happy sharing a man and not otherwise be typical backstabbers use it to justify his behaviour and possibly their own as well.

 

I don't know if you mean me, Myrtle, when you talk about "justifying". That is not the case for me. The Split Self theory joined my mind and heart which had been in constant battle with each other for years. It gave me peace of mind and heart.

 

Let's think about it. We have two women, the OW and the BS, who love a man. Most likely they feel he is a good man, why would they love him otherwise? Would they not both benefit if there is an explanation why he takes these actions which hurt them both? An explanation why he went outside the marriage, an explanation why he did not leave the marriage. If there is help to be found, is that not beneficial to all three parties in the triangle? Real help, instead of just badmouthing one party as being bad.

[jennie-jennie]

This is something to keep in mind for us who have been touched by extramarital affairs and hope that it will not be passed on to our children:

 

"Therapists can expect to see more Split Selves affairs in future years. We are currently raising a generation of Split Selves. The pressure of children today to perform, to succeed, and to win, combined with restrictions on their opportunities to explore what interests them, are important elements in creating an internal split between doing things right and the emotional self, between thinking and feeling. In working with families and family members, therapists have a very significant role to play in helping parents develop realistic expectations for their children, while encouraging their children's sense of self, especially the emotional self."

 

(Emily M Brown "Split Self Affairs and their Treatment" in Piercy, Hertlein and Wetchler (editors) "Handbook of the Clinical Treatment of Infidelity")

 

What if it the next time is our son who is the WS? Are we going to scream then that he has weak character or are we going to pray that he gets help?

[wheelwright]

I don't know if you mean me, Myrtle, when you talk about "justifying". That is not the case for me. The Split Self theory joined my mind and heart which had been in constant battle with each other for years. It gave me peace of mind and heart.

 

Let's think about it. We have two women, the OW and the BS, who love a man. Most likely they feel he is a good man, why would they love him otherwise? Would they not both benefit if there is an explanation why he takes these actions which hurt them both? An explanation why he went outside the marriage, an explanation why he did not leave the marriage. If there is help to be found, is that not beneficial to all three parties in the triangle? Real help, instead of just badmouthing one party as being bad.

 

 

I am not sure of all the provenance, but I recognise JJ as being someone who puts the OW's side.

 

I really like what you wrote here JJ, because you are seeing all sides with no judgement.

 

And yes, I agree, there sometimes needs to be help for all three (or four).

 

Does the OW/OM need to justify? I think the split self idea is clearly helpful for both sides. If they are split, there was something missing in the M. Better than thinking the WS is just a serial **** up.

 

And if the MP is thus split, why in the hell condemn the OW/OM? More often than not it is s/he who awoke the real emotional self of the WS so s/he could reconnect.

 

Good for the M. Sad it couldn't have been done more painlessly. For all concerned.

 

This whole thread has been helpful for me. I recognise myself as having been split, my xAP too.

 

I think we all have to think about the problems that lead us to this kind of split - societal, marital, and individual.

 

We all just want love and peace. You get neither in full when split. It's a real and justifying issue.

 

I really have no full moral issues on this, other than that we should strive for love and minimise cruelty to others.

 

This is what split self As are trying to do -just that they don't really achieve their goal. (Or occasionally they might, if the BS, WS and AP recognise and accept all the roles.)

 

To be honest, I have finally come to a point where on LS I respect those who don't condemn, more than those who fail to undestand the other's perspective. To begin with I wasn't sure because I do have a moral compass, but I think that is where it lies.

 

Don't judge anyone on the sides of that uncomfortable split self relationship.

[OWoman]

Split self is just fancy psych-speak for 'selfish cake eater.' Nothing more. I don't like this 'split self' theory as it seems to intellectualize something really simple and in some way make it more 'acceptable' (it's a condition, he needs help, he needs therapy, its a complex issue and he needs time, etc) when really it is just straightforward: weak character + selfish = cake eater. Same thing.

 

I've not read too much on the "split-self" besides what's been posted on these boards, so I can't offer any kind of definitive view... but from what's been described here, I'd say I've known a number of MMs who'd qualify, possibly even my H, but definitely my father.

 

I'd be hesitant to classify any of those MMs as "weak characters" - they've stood up to more than their fair share of challenges in all kinds of moral, ethical and social arenas, and have earned widespread respect for their integrity and morality. These are people of principle, not people who are easily swayed by passing currents - which makes the sense of "duty" all the more powerful as a driver and a determinant for them. Were they "weaker" characters, they could more easily walk away from "duty" and follow their hearts - but their sense of responsibility and duty keeps them at the helm, last man off the ship and all that.

 

They're also among the least selfish people I know. And it's for that reason that they struggle so - all their lives they've put the wants and needs of others ahead of their own, and now, suddenly, they're faced by a really powerful pull towards something that they really want... but can't fully have, because of their responsibilities and obligations. Yet, the passion and the intensity is just too powerful to walk away from entirely - and so they find themselves trapped in this terrible situation where the two parts of themselves are pulling in opposite directions - the superego telling them to stay and "do what's right"; and the id, wanting them to follow their hearts for the first time in their lives.

 

Were they weaker characters, they'd find it easier to walk away from duty and obligation without a second glance. Were they selfish people, there'd be no split between following their heart and looking after the interests of others - they'd simply follow their hearts. It's precisely because they're neither selfish nor weak that they cannot make a clean, clear choice and follow through.

 

At least, that's how I read it. If others who're better read in this area (Jen?) or who work professionally with these concepts (DI?) feel that my reading is way off, so be it... But from what I've read and who I've known, I can't accept that they're "selfish, weak, cake-eaters". If that really was what / how they were, they'd be happy and at ease in the A, not wracked by it.