WS Coping mechanisms

[jj33]

Rather than hijack broken ladys thread I have started a spin off. Im not sure of paraphrasing other posters on a new thread so I wont attribute but one poster insightfully suggested that the WSs coping mechanisms lying obfuscation, etc can wear you down.

 

I have been dealing with the aftermath of an A for several years. After avoiding each other as much as humanly possible for almost a year, it became more practical to try speak again. xMM started acting in ways which I thought crossed the line from professional to personal and I called him on it.

 

As usual he gaslighted me (what are you talking about, whats wrong with you, why are you bringing up personal issues, why do you get so hysterical) just because I asked him what was going on and what he meant by certain things.

 

I was not prepared to go down that road again where he communicated with me and arranged to spend time alone with me on an ostensibly professional level while making comments etc that made it clear that he had a different agenda.

 

Because we have to deal with each other in business I cant have total NC (that was a disaster and dangerous to me professionally) but I dont deserve to have him obfuscating and playing all sorts of games.

 

I have finally come to the conclusion that I have to stop expecting him to be a nice man. I have to stop expecting him to take my feelings into account. I have to stop expecting that he would respect the normal social conventions (for example you dont make business excuses as to why you need to spend time alone outside of business hours with an exAP).

 

And you dont suggest such things years after the affair is over, when you have been at each others throats unless you are prepared to discuss what has happened and discuss a better way of working together in the future. You cant expect to just go out socially in that situation.

 

I cant even find the words to describe how shocked I am that he would think that bygones would be bygones and somehow I would want to spend social time with him without a word about what has happened over the past year.

 

Of course he painted me as a bunny boiling lunatic (why are you making such a big deal over this). And oddly various people have told me that he brings me up in conversatoin for no reason, which is embarrassing.

 

I am minimizing our contact in business to the extent possible without making it obvious. I cant afford to start a big battle again that was too difficult. So I think silence is the best strategy. Only deal with him to the extent absolutely necessary.

 

Im stunned. I dont even know what to say or to think other than that he clearly has no interest in communicating with me, clearly doesnt respect me. He must think I am really stupid and naive that he could manipulate me into walking right back into the same situation again.

 

The fact that he threw it all back in my face like I was pestering him makes me so angry.

 

If major obfuscation is his coping mechanism, he was never the man for me. All I wanted was honesty. Just a little teeny tiny little bit of honesty. Its like talking to a delusional person. The things that come out of his mouth are so clearly not true that its unreal.

Edited February 20, 2010 by jj33

[NoIDidn't]

Wow, jj33.

 

I can't believe you are still dealing with him and his mess after all this time.

 

I agree with you that silence and lowering expectations of better behavior from him, is about all you can do. This is likely how his W came to accept his philandering too. So sad for you guys and for him. For you guys because you don't fully get to be yourself with him, either of you. Your needs go unmet. For him, because he thinks that being the way he is being (his coping mechanism with life and relationships it seems) is the best he can get, when its not.

 

And I totally get the "talking to a delusional person" point. It is very much so, IMO. He can't see the world any other way and is inflexible in that view so his reality will ALWAYS be different from yours.

[jj33]

Thanks NID. It was your post I was referring to. I read your words the lying the deception the obfuscation and a lightbulb went off.

 

Its the obfuscation that kills me. Tell me you are hoping I am silly enough to reignite things, I can accept that - I be annoyed, but I can deal with that. But all the ducking and diving in the communications is unreal.

 

Im not good at saying ok fine you broke my heart stomped on it and lit a fire to the broken pieces just for good measure, but the past is the past - so lets go out drinking!!!

 

And then to say its all business necessity, why would you even suggest its anything else.... (or oh I didnt speak to you when I saw you with my W because we were in a hurry; when I said get real we didnt speak because it would have been awkward, he denied it. DENIED IT. I talk about you to my W all the time she really likes you... (yeah I bet she does he was probably a lot easier to handle when I was in the picture if anything shed probably beg me to regain the status quo).

 

 

I dont think of myself as a naive person. But I kept expecting him to be forthright with me. Not to obfuscate. Because in this situation knowing that he broke my heart, its just plain mean.

 

Its hard to have a ratoinal discussion with someone who insists that the moon is made of cheese (in a matter of speaking).

 

Even if he was leading up to telling me he was leaving (hypothetically) I still deserve a big apology for the past because there could never have been any future if the past was still hanging out there with all of its resentments.

 

So while he thinks I am a lunatic, I think his coping mechanisms prevent us from having anything other than a civil distant working relatoinship.

 

Even if he wanted to have a stronger working relationship where we were in touch more often, He would still need to really sincerely apologize for the past (not just well that is behind us).

 

Am I asking for too much? I dont think so. The passage of time doesnt make up for the way he hurt me. I can put it behind me but when I have to deal with him I dont forget that he acted so cavalierly with me.

[awkward]

Do you think maybe it is you who has changed? In the affair did your XMM play games with you if he didn't get the result he was looking for? Is it possible that if you were to respond to him like you did while you were in the affair that you would get different results from him?

 

It sounds like he is minimizing your affair now that it is over. Sort of like all those personal issues aren't relevant because your making it out to be more than it was. He still plays the game hoping for a different result from you and when he doesn't get it he can act like it is you who lives in denial.

 

Imagine when he is speaking to you that he is blowing actual smoke up your butt. Then chuckle ... out loud.

[2sunny]

i think he is just surprised that you call him on his crap. he's surprised that someone would actually point it out - he may not be used to that and that's why he's defensive - it helps him to avoid answering a question he doesn't want to answer. he knows he does it - otherwise why be so defensive if there's nothing to be defensive about?

 

he's playing the same dance he always did with you - he just gets angry when you show him with your actions and words that you aren't going to dance anymore.

 

if you really want answers - ask him a question that involves a yes or no answer. when he moves away from the question - restate to him... it's a yes or no answer. answer the question...

 

this can look like:

 

do you realize how inappropriate your behavior is? when he avoids answering or goes into justifying his position - you say...

 

it's a yes or no answer.

 

then he is forced to either acknowledge that he's inappropriate (you pointing out the evidence is based on his action or words) or he actually denies it with no as his answer.

 

if he denies - he's still left with knowing that you are pointing out the obvious when he intends to play a game with you. this shuts down his little game when you are willing to call him on his own crappy behavior.

[fooled once]

2sunny makes some great suggestions and has me also thinking he was stunned you (a) didn't burst out crying, begging him to have an A with you again (b) didn't thank him for stomping on your head © stood toe to toe with him and called a spade a spade.

 

He really thinks he is God's gift doesn't he?

 

Jerkface.

 

I totally agree with you regarding

 

I have finally come to the conclusion that I have to stop expecting him to be a nice man. I have to stop expecting him to take my feelings into account. I have to stop expecting that he would respect the normal social conventions (for example you dont make business excuses as to why you need to spend time alone outside of business hours with an exAP).

 

You have to stop thinking he is going to be a normal, rational, compassionate, caring human being.

 

He is pond scum.

 

He is a complete a** to continue to talk to others about you, he is DELUSIONAL to think you and he can be best buds and he is less than human to not even remotely think he can continue to gaslight you and you not be aware of what he is up to.

 

I am sorry that he continues to try to goad you, to taunt you and to not just be a professional. I wish he would transfer to Alaska and get out of your life.

[jj33]

Do you think maybe it is you who has changed? In the affair did your XMM play games with you if he didn't get the result he was looking for? Is it possible that if you were to respond to him like you did while you were in the affair that you would get different results from him?

 

 

You are right. If I had said oh its so great to see you. I have really missed spending time with you. blah blah blah I might have gotten a different response from him. But he is a married man. And as an exAp unless he were to tell me that he had filed for divorce I dont think its proper to go down that road. After all I am not looking for a way back into the A.

[jj33]

2Sunny that is a good idea. If it comes up again (which I

dont think it will but I say that all the time and every few months it happens again...) I will try that.

 

And Fooled thanks you do make me laugh. I should thank him for stomping on my head... noone but noone questions him or calls him on anything. Except me.

 

And yes I expect that his W simply lowered her expectations although he has had to lower his expectations too. And I think that is the crux of the problem. We had somethings that they never had. And I think he will always mourn the fact that they dont have that despite all the other things that they have. My greatest wish for them is that they could find it in their relationship but if they havent in all these years, its unlikely they ever will.

 

I think the reason he keeps coming back in one form or another is that he has the memory of having those things with me and he wants that in his life on whatever level. Even if its just being in constant contact with me on bogus grounds.

 

The problem is he cant admit it all and he keeps obfuscating. And the more he does that the more the love I felt for him diminishes. I dont have the same warmth to give him. Can hardly muster small talk with him. There is too much resentment that has built up with all his shenanigans over the past few years.

 

Its really sad. If he only could have been honest we could have a better working relationship and could have an occasional drink. It would be useful for our business relatinship if nothing else. But since he persists in pretending I dont know what, I just cant stand being around him and am actively trying to find other alternatives to doing business with him. Over the years other alternatives have begun to present themselves (noone has hte market cornered forever) so hopefully I can walk away from this entirely. I cant stop him talking about me. His talk is very positive but its so positive that he has people thinking we may be having an A now which is not at all useful. Indeed he dropped into conversation that he talks about me to his W all the time.... so apparently he is goading her too.

 

Its all very very sad. Am a bit calmer now and dont think he is a bad man. Just confused. But all of this is a result of his choices. And there is nothing I can do about that. I cant allow myself to be drawn back in.

[2sunny]

can you be specific about what it looks like when he's obfuscating? this can be done in a variety of ways; how does he do this?

[jj33]

can you be specific about what it looks like when he's obfuscating? this can be done in a variety of ways; how does he do this?

 

If you ask him why x he willl say no not x at all. He skates over things in a charming and socially acceptable manner when there are glaring truths that are painfully obvious and when I suggest them he says oh no its not that at all I have no idea why you would say that.

[jj33]

Maybe obfuscating isnt the right word but if the sky is blue hell say yes the sky is pink today with yellow polka dots. And if you say no its blue and that is awkward he will say no not blue at all not sure why youwould say that and give some explanation as to why its not blue. He makes up these pleasantries and excuses to veer away from anything real.

 

And since he insists on doing that its difficult to speak to him. There is so much that is emotionally charged in our history I am not capable of just putting it behind me and saying right you broke my heart and hurt me deeply but thats alright. Today is a new day and we are best of friends. All is forgiven.

 

I agree life is too short to hang onto grievances, but it doesnt mean you cozy up to someone who has left you heartbroken. It means you wish them well with their life and keep a healthy distance.

Edited February 21, 2010 by jj33

[fooled once]

I think it drives him NUTS that you aren't falling at his feet, begging to be involved again. THAT is what keeps him coming back -- his EGO.

 

Plus, you are a wonderful woman and he knows he totally screwed up, but he will never admit it aloud. It must be YOU who is crazy not him How dare you NOT be sitting and crying and wringing your hands because he isn't the center of your world.

[2sunny]

any interaction is feeding his ego and giving him the idea that he has power over you. take that power away by not responding at all - even if he tries to make small talk - all you need to do is simply say "stick to business" ... it will make him feel weak and small.

[dannie19]

This post has come at just the right time for me so a BIG thank you. I split up with a colleague who I've been having an affair with for 16 months just last week and will see him for the first time tomorrow and am just terrified about how far back and sad this is going to make me. I've been able to take a few tips from what I've read in this thread, especially as the personality types of the men involved sound similar (apparently I'm mad and losing the plot while he's balanced and rational - despite being bipolar and an alcohoilc and drug user, mm sure he's sane!). Only OMG it's unbearable to think this could still be an issue several years down the line, God I hope not, it makes me survining the last week look like nothing! Oh, sorry not meaning to change the focus of your thread from you just wanted express my thanks, I'm printing off your thread and highlighting information right away!

[jj33]

Danni it really depends on how closely you need to work with him and how much of an opportunity he has to make excuses to spend time with you.

 

Its awkward I used to practically hide when I saw him at the begining. But just be professoinal, dont cry in the office and try not to lose focus when he is around.

 

If you need to speak to him keep to business. Dont go to lunch with him, dont do anything you dont absolutely need to do.

 

When we first broke up I made the mistake of thinking we could be friendly (long before I joined LS). By the time I joined LS I had severely limited my contact with him but that was a year after we broke up.

 

Be prepared for the fact that he may be a baby and flirt with other women in front of you etc etc but that is just him being a baby.

 

If you are lucky he will be uncomfortable too and will be equally uneasy with the contact and will keep it to a minimum.

 

Good luck.

[dannie19]

Thank you for sharing your insight, it's empowering to have someone else's experience as it helps me to stay focused on knowing I made the right decision or at least it will be in time. I hope your own exMM stops bothering you, to be honest he sounds arrogant and vain and deserving of only your laughter!

[jj33]

Pleasure. The other thing and to take it back to the title, is that everyone copes differently in these situatoins.

 

In my case his coping mechanism varies. Its not always comfortable for me but I m not sure what he could do other than just keep a pleasant distance that would be comfortable.

 

In addition, Im not sure he knows WHAT to do with me or how to be around me. Its become a minefield since I took a more aggressive stance in terms of not wanting to have anything but professoinal contact. He doesnt seem to have taken well to that.

 

So to be fair perhaps he is just trying his best. I dont know. I just know I need a distance as its too painful to try to be neutral and professoinal in a quasi social situatoin with someone I was so close to. I find it uncomfortable so I dont like to do it unless I have to.

 

So for example if I see him when I am out of hte office I dont initiate conversation, dont join groups of people he is speaking to, dont walk over to him unless he calls me over and I have no choice because at the same time, its noticable if you suddenly treat him like a pariah after having been close in the eyes of colleagues. You just have to be smart about it. Im sure you will be fine. Polite excuses go a long way. (e.g. hi how are you thats good excuse me I have to go say hello to x or I have to get back to my desk or whatever just keep it short)

Edited February 21, 2010 by jj33