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Heroes or villains? Take two


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There is a thread on LS that talks about power relations and jobs in these terms.

 

I wonder on a more prosaic level, do we idealise out APs as heroes and subjugate our BSs as villains?

 

Are there heroes and villains in you scenario, or only people trying to work stuff out?

 

Why do we (the OW) need to demonise if an A doesn't work out? Or why does the BS need to do this? Is infidelity not understandable without a demon?

 

As a human touch, yes I demonised my xMOM. I researched psychopathic behaviour (re him and me!) I wondered if he were a demon sent by God to f*** up my life and I am not even religious. I looked into posssibilities to understand if psychopathy could be an explanation of how he treated me.

 

I lloked into possibilities of psychopathy to understand how I ended up in an A.

 

Heroes of love or villains of the peace?

 

And like war, doesn't it matter which side you are on when you win or lose?

Edited by wheelwright
Wel, another thing
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I wonder on a more prosaic level, do we idealise out APs as heroes and subjugate our BSs as villains?

 

I see it all the time from OW here...in guise or another to one degree or another. You would be hard pressed to find where this wasn't the case.

 

But it makes sense, its the nature of the beast. The OW is NEVER satisfied with what she has (goes for OM too). And, if you pay attention to posters long enough (those who claim they are happy as is), will catch a post which says "I'm not happy, I want more".

 

Sadly, those posters, for reasons I do not understand, will deny it, say how great and happy they are...yadda yadda yadda.

 

But if you wait. And if you read. They post yet again..."Im not happy, I want more"...

 

Its really quite sad.

 

 

Why do we (the OW) need to demonise if an A doesn't work out? Or why does the BS need to do this? Is infidelity not understandable without a demon?
And what you are describing is competition between OW/OM and BS. Its perfectly natural (an offshoot of jealousy). The OW is jealous of the life the BS has and the BS is jealous that the AP exists...that the WS likely has "some" feelings.

 

The real demon. of course, is the WS.

 

As a human touch, yes I demonised my xMOM. I researched psychopathic behaviour (re him and me!) I wondered if he were a demon sent by God to f*** up my life and I am not even religious. I looked into posssibilities to understand if psychopathy could be an explanation of how he treated me.
Perfectly understandable. I did the same as BS.

The better question is WHY you allowed it to happen to you?

 

I lloked into possibilities of psychopathy to understand how I ended up in an A.

No therapy needed...you wanted it. I'm not attacking, just saying that you wanted an A...a statement of fact based on if you didn't want an A, you wouldn't have one.

Question is, why did you want it?

Question is, why pursue a course of action that is wrong and hurts all involved?

Question is, what have you learned about you? Your MOM? The BS?

Heroes of love or villains of the peace?

Heroes of love? Sounds like a cheap romance novel :)

Well, what do you think? Was he a "hero of love"? DO you think ANY WS is a "hero of love"?

 

Villain of Peace? Well, yes.

 

 

And like war, doesn't it matter which side you are on when you win or lose?
No one really wins in war or in A's. Ultimately, we all lose.
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Nope.. I don't 'idolize' my MMs.... they're not my heroes..

 

I am the 'hero'... (heroin) ;).. they are my vilains..

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bentnotbroken

Hey, how come you and Owoman don't get chewed out for taking from other threads and starting a different topic? Must just be my winning personality:D Carry on. :)

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I think it is human nature to idealize the people we are in love with...at least to some extent. I know looking at my xAP now that I don't have her on the pedestal I see her differently.

 

I don't have to go to the extreme of making her a villain, but I do see that she is not the superwoman I painted her to be...and the one she always told me she wasn't.

 

Just like we idealize I think we have a tendency to look for the faults in an ex lover. That way we can minimize the loss. We can say to ourselves "eh...they weren't all that anyways." This especially happens when they leave us. We don't want to think that we have lost such a wonderful person.

 

So yeah..I think we make people both villains and hereon...it is how we cope with the drama of relationships.

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I don't think it's just the fact that it is an A that people are demonized or vilified.

 

I think that some people handle things differently. I have some girlfriends who are best friends with all of their exes. Me? No - I can't be friends with exes. I know that they are not evil, but I just can't remain friends.

 

As for the BS, I never would demonize them, especially after reading all the postings on this site. The OM tell SO many of the SAME stories to OW. It's like we all have lived the same thing.

 

If we were to vilify anyone, myself, I would vilify me, the OW. (OK - I HATED typing that, but it's the truth).

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jennie-jennie

I try to understand the dynamics at work with all the persons involved in the affair. In my opinion nobody is a vilain and nobody is a hero, everyone is just a human being struggling with life.

 

I am the kind of person who remains friends with my exes, who does not demonize them after the relationship is over. I appreciate the good moments and am sorry for the bad moments of the relationship, but I know I loved these men and in a sense will love them for the rest of my life.

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I've seen and been friends with both sides. Cheater and betrayed. Male and female.

 

The cheater and enabler of the cheating is the villan/shamed one.

 

Sad to say but the truth. Other's steer away for various and obvious reasons.

 

Unvarnished.

 

Tell yourself what you want to hear.

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jennie-jennie
The OW is NEVER satisfied with what she has (goes for OM too). And, if you pay attention to posters long enough (those who claim they are happy as is), will catch a post which says "I'm not happy, I want more".

 

Sadly, those posters, for reasons I do not understand, will deny it, say how great and happy they are...yadda yadda yadda.

 

But if you wait. And if you read. They post yet again..."Im not happy, I want more"...

 

I don't know if I am one of the OW you are thinking of? Anyway, I have never denied that I want more. What I say is that I enjoy what I do have and that I choose to stay in the relationship because the pros are greater than the cons. So far. That does not mean I will not walk tomorrow.

 

But I know what our relationship has given me. I was a very wounded soul coming from an abusive relationship and also with other bad life experiences in tow. My MM healed much of my wounds with love and patience and just being there. I will bring that with me when/if I decide to move on.

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jennie-jennie

Come to think of it, a lot of BSs and reformed OW posting on LS do present themselves in a bad light in my view. Perhaps they can be considered vilains in my opinion? I do hope not all BSs are like this. Not trying to be offensive, just stating my view. I am sure a lot of you consider me the vilain, so it is most likely mutual. LOL :cool:

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jennie-jennie
I've seen and been friends with both sides. Cheater and betrayed. Male and female.

 

The cheater and enabler of the cheating is the villan/shamed one.

 

Sad to say but the truth. Other's steer away for various and obvious reasons.

 

Unvarnished.

 

Tell yourself what you want to hear.

 

The level of emotional involvement is important to me. If you are just f*cking around, that looks pretty bad to me. If it is a long term relationship with great emotional involvement it is a different issue. Then there is likely some psychological explanation why the WS does not manage to end one of the relationships, either the marriage or the EMR.

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The OW is NEVER satisfied with what she has (goes for OM too). And, if you pay attention to posters long enough (those who claim they are happy as is), will catch a post which says "I'm not happy, I want more".

 

I was quite happy as the OW. That's why I chose As as my R of choice. And, at the point I wanted "more" (or, I'd prefer, "different", since I don't think that an A is "less" if that is exactly what you want at the time), then I organised that. So sorry jw, not ALL OWs are sad sacks bemoaning their lot...

 

I wonder on a more prosaic level, do we idealise out APs as heroes and subjugate our BSs as villains?

 

I've never idealised an AP - I've seen them quite dispassionately as people meeting a need (perhaps one they didn't know they had, before the A) via the A - same as I was doing. There's nothing inherently romantic or heroic or villainous about that, it's simple human behaviour.

 

Did I demonise the BW? Nope, she did that all by herself.

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Hey, how come you and Owoman don't get chewed out for taking from other threads and starting a different topic? Must just be my winning personality:D Carry on. :)

 

:p Damned if you do, and damned if you don't!

 

Actually IIRC there's a post somewhere on the site comments board that people should start a spin-off rather than jack an existing thread, so this probably is The Anointed Way :laugh: Bent, I reckon the reason you got flak was because, well, people know you can take it :p so they dish it out :p

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Come to think of it, a lot of BSs and reformed OW posting on LS do present themselves in a bad light in my view. Perhaps they can be considered vilains in my opinion?

Please explain.

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bentnotbroken
:pDamned if you do, and damned if you don't!

 

Actually IIRC there's a post somewhere on the site comments board that people should start a spin-off rather than jack an existing thread, so this probably is The Anointed Way :laugh: Bent, I reckon the reason you got flak was because, well, people know you can take it :p so they dish it out :p

 

 

I know right.:laugh: I was trying not to thread jack or post a thread in ow/om forum as had been asked. But you are right....I can take it. :D

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jennie-jennie
Please explain.

 

Yikes, how do I express this without stepping on too many toes? When you read books about affairs, they warn the betrayed spouses not to get trapped in obsessing about the affair. In my opinion the inappropriate posting behaviour I see here of a lot of BSs is likely due to exactly that. So it is not a healthy way of dealing with the pain the affair has caused.

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Yikes, how do I express this without stepping on too many toes? When you read books about affairs, they warn the betrayed spouses not to get trapped in obsessing about the affair. In my opinion the inappropriate posting behaviour I see here of a lot of BSs is likely due to exactly that. So it is not a healthy way of dealing with the pain the affair has caused.

 

OK... first, could you please explain more about what is "inappropriate posting behavior" in your opinion - as apparently it differs from the mods?

 

Second... in regards to not "obsessing about the affair", the books you've read, to whom are they primarily "geared" (because almost every book I've read has got it's favorite slant.)? I think (and this is my opinion based primarily, but not solely, upon my own life) that people simply cope the best way they can. I don't think most people have much of a choice about what they do and do not obsess about. And I certainly do think that people who are in a great deal of pain have NO CHOICE but to obsess about the cause of that pain for some period of time. If the obsession goes on too long (how's that for a smooshy time frame :lmao:) then they should probably get help. But obsession will, and in my humble opinion, must occur so the BS can get their brain wrapped around what has happened in their life.

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bentnotbroken
Yikes, how do I express this without stepping on too many toes? When you read books about affairs, they warn the betrayed spouses not to get trapped in obsessing about the affair. In my opinion the inappropriate posting behaviour I see here of a lot of BSs is likely due to exactly that. So it is not a healthy way of dealing with the pain the affair has caused.

 

 

I am pretty sure that depends on the books you read. The ones I read also stating that if you want to move on (have the BS stop obsessing)then all the truth needs to be told. Not half the truth, not three quarter of the truth, not a forth of the truth, but all the truth. The obsession typically comes in with trying to find those hidden pieces to the puzzle.

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jennie-jennie
OK... first, could you please explain more about what is "inappropriate posting behavior" in your opinion - as apparently it differs from the mods?

 

Second... in regards to not "obsessing about the affair", the books you've read, to whom are they primarily "geared" (because almost every book I've read has got it's favorite slant.)? I think (and this is my opinion based primarily, but not solely, upon my own life) that people simply cope the best way they can. I don't think most people have much of a choice about what they do and do not obsess about. And I certainly do think that people who are in a great deal of pain have NO CHOICE but to obsess about the cause of that pain for some period of time. If the obsession goes on too long (how's that for a smooshy time frame :lmao:) then they should probably get help. But obsession will, and in my humble opinion, must occur so the BS can get their brain wrapped around what has happened in their life.

 

I am pretty sure that depends on the books you read. The ones I read also stating that if you want to move on (have the BS stop obsessing)then all the truth needs to be told. Not half the truth, not three quarter of the truth, not a forth of the truth, but all the truth. The obsession typically comes in with trying to find those hidden pieces to the puzzle.

 

Having been a BS myself I know very well that obsession is part of the aftermath of an affair. That is why I wrote "trapped in obsessing about the affair". As a BS I also had the need, just like BNB says, to find out every detail about what had happened to be able to work through it. I do know what it is to be a hurting BS and I draw from that experience when posting here.

 

The books I am referring to are foremost two handbooks written for the education of therapists and one book that is for the general public, also written by a therapist. So "the slant" is therapeutical.

 

With "inappropriate posting behaviour" I meant what I posted in another thread the other day:

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showthread.php?t=218741&page=3

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jennie-jennie
Thank-you for your explanation. :)

 

You're welcome. Nice to have a decent conversation about a sensitive subject. :)

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I am perfectly aware of the fact that maybe I'm not neutral about all the people involved in the situation and perhaps tend to focus more on the good sides of my CM and the bad sides of his SO, but that's only natural and that awareness causes me to make an effort to be more neutral.

 

The only person I ever demonised was myself, because I had liked that man for a long time before anything happened between us but I stayed well away for her sake and I was feeling bad about 'wanting her man'.

 

As far as OW never being happy, not having enough, all sort of relationship involve such feelings, not necessarily As. And as I'm reading posts on this forum I can see that not all As involve these feelings.

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I wonder on a more prosaic level, do we idealise out APs as heroes and subjugate our BSs as villains?

 

Are there heroes and villains in you scenario, or only people trying to work stuff out?

 

Why do we (the OW) need to demonise if an A doesn't work out? Or why does the BS need to do this? Is infidelity not understandable without a demon?

 

As a human touch, yes I demonised my xMOM. I researched psychopathic behaviour (re him and me!) I wondered if he were a demon sent by God to f*** up my life and I am not even religious. I looked into posssibilities to understand if psychopathy could be an explanation of how he treated me.

 

I lloked into possibilities of psychopathy to understand how I ended up in an A.

 

Heroes of love or villains of the peace?

 

And like war, doesn't it matter which side you are on when you win or lose?

 

My very first post here was wondering why the OW always vilified the MM when things didn't work out. I didn't understand the point of it. But I learned that rationalization works both ways. People use it to get into an affair AND to get out of one.

 

Relationships are two way streets. I find it interesting when anyone blames their partner solely for what they actively participated in. But its human nature to try to pass the blame on to someone else. Even Adam said Eve gave him the fruit, when he chose to eat it of his own free will.

 

Even though I didn't like the way the OW said it when I spoke to her, I appreciated the fact that she didn't take my H's demonizing of me totally to heart considering the situation. It must be easier for the OW to demonize the BW when the MM is the one leading the way. Just like people say how the MM is the one disrespecting his marriage by initiating an affair. Its easier to follow his lead. If he doesn't have a problem with it, then they don't either.

 

The demonizing of the BS and building up of the MP/AP just seem to be part and parcel of being involved in an affair.

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I don't know if I am one of the OW you are thinking of? Anyway, I have never denied that I want more. What I say is that I enjoy what I do have and that I choose to stay in the relationship because the pros are greater than the cons. So far. That does not mean I will not walk tomorrow.

 

You were :)

 

Affairs are bad. If, for simplicity's sake I'll use OW but OM works as well (hard to always type gender neutral...and I'm a crappy typist), the OW simply wants a physical "connection" I would question her choice in a MM. Why not a single one? Why do harm to others (the BS and family)? Having said that, at least the OW ISN'T wasting her time and life. Since all she wants is a physical connection she gets exactly what she wants. There is no time lost waiting...she isn't waiting at all.

 

We'll ignore how hard it is for most to NOT become emotionally involved once the PA ramps up.

 

However, for you and OW who DO want more...there is considerable loss in an A in terms of TIME. Because you want more, and more he isn't giving, you are losing that time which could be spent finding another (not another MM, another man) who WILL commit from day one. That's the loss. And its unrecoverable.

 

And what happens is these wild swings in attitude. You have, for instance, in a twenty four period posted how "Great it is the pieces you have" and how his wedding ring revolts you. See my point? And I'm not just singling you out...its true of more than just you here.

 

And that is what I find sad. The always waiting. They hoping and wanting more. And not getting it. My opinion is he won't..most M don't. They really have no incentive to change. No reason to choose one over the other when he can have BOTH. And time marches on...life passes by (in the romantic sense).

 

But I know what our relationship has given me. I was a very wounded soul coming from an abusive relationship and also with other bad life experiences in tow. My MM healed much of my wounds with love and patience and just being there. I will bring that with me when/if I decide to move on.
Its not a R, its an A.

You know, you're one of the few whose story I DON'T know. Did you ever post it in a thread? I wasn't aware of your coming out of an abusive R (and into another)

 

And, heartfelt and deepest sympathies for what you survived and endured. You didn't deserve it, you don't deserve it now and will NEVER deserve it.

You deserve to be the ONLY star in some lucky mans life.

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I was quite happy as the OW. That's why I chose As as my R of choice. And, at the point I wanted "more" (or, I'd prefer, "different", since I don't think that an A is "less" if that is exactly what you want at the time), then I organised that. So sorry jw, not ALL OWs are sad sacks bemoaning their lot...

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't your now H lie about his marital status?

And did he not pull the same crap most MM do?

And didn't you get tired of the "crap" and demand a decision? An ulitmatium if you will?

 

I'm sorry Owoman, but your M began as most - with all the "standard stuff".

 

The difference is, as I alluded to above, YOU. Most OW simply don't have it in them...

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