Lost without her

January 22, 2010

I was in an affair for about 4 1/2 years. My high school sweetheart, love of my life and best friend at the time found me again almost 5 years ago and we instantly were where we were 25 years ago with added admiration and respect for how we have both navigated difficult lives. When we parted 25 years ago we were still in love and life pulled us apart against our wills. Shortly after we parted, she got pregnant and started a life with someone else. Her first husband. It took me 9 years and 4 relationships before I got over her.

When she found me 5 years ago, she and I were both married. It was a very honest and innocent exchange betwen us for a long time. Both our spouses knew of it and there was nothing to hide. Eventually like was probably inevitable, she and I became best friends first and then madly fell in love again. In 5 years we spent one week together and knew if we repeated it we would not ever be able to part again. My wife originally knew of our contact when it was innocent but later discovered the extent of the relationship. My wife and I almost split then but decided to try to mend things. My OW had her own challenging relationship to work through and children. Mutually, my OW and I agreed to part NC knowing we would one day likely come together when our lives were less complicated and I worked on my marriage to see if I could salvage it. After just 3 weeks my OW couldn't handle the NC and was completely falling apart at the seams. We strongly defined the contact we would have and what that contact would be and defined our relationship as platonic despite our strong feelings.

We kept the newly defined relationship hidden from our spouses and swore not to let the friendship affect our marriages. Those definitions shifted over time. We became the closest we had both ever been with another person and grew more and more and more emotionally in love the next 3 years. We had opportunity but avoided physical contact. We stayed in our marriages with overtures to a future but not careful to commit to one for fear of hurting the other.

Her marriage became abusive and I did all I could to try to get her though it to safe harbor. She told me for 3 years that she would leave him for me if only I would ask but I tried not to have opinions on her husband but made sure she knew that what she was going through was not healthy. I encouraged and pushed her to become strong and independant and she even went after her degree which she gave up on twice before. I also let her know I couldn't let myself be the reason for her family to split. I wasn't. No one in her life knew about our relationship. Things escalated for her. When she finally left him, I took a very close look at my marriage and decided that I had been putting in all this effort and living my life for the last 3 years to keep my wife happy and it was time to leave mine too but when my OW found out that my wife and I were looking at separating she cut off all contact with me. She had once told me she could never be the reason we split, that she couldn't live with the guilt.

She left me by sending me an email that basically said she had a lot in her life to figure out with her and her kids, and that it seemed like I did too -- that she knew we believed there was some plan for us but she knew that now was not the right time. That we shouldn't talk or write anymore and that someday things had to be better and she would find me. My only way to reach her was an email account she wasn't really going to be checking. She changed her number. Moved in with a divorced male friend of hers and his son (in her words "as a sort of roomate situtation" for financial reasons) who I'm not sure if she was is in a relationship with (but they did sort of "family date").

It has been 5 months since she has called me on the phone (we talked daily for several hours for over 4 years) and will be 3 months since we have traded an email. She asked me 3 months ago not to come see her, that it would be emotionally too hard.

I don't know where I stand with her at all. I am head over heels in love with her and have been most of my life. Only weeks before she ended it she was telling me how she was still in love with me. She has been my soulmate since I was 18 and we finish each others thoughts. I honestly believe we are meant to be together but life just never lined up for us. I told her that the only way we will be together is to make life line up for us -- for us to be brave and take a chance. I have sent her emails and cards asking her to please please talk with me so that I can get either closure on the relationship or some hope of a future from her - at this point I just need either as I am falling apart where I am.

My wife and I are still together. We are somewhat broken and have been for a very long time but not in ways that we still don't add value to each other's lives -- just both living in a very parallel disconnected marriage with seperate friends and support networks. She thinks I may be going though midlife crisis - maybe I am.

If I got closure from my xOW, I think I could work hard and maybe improve my marriage a little and make my wife happier - never enough for me to be truly happy but maybe more content than going through a long hard split and being miserable. She is a good person and I still care dearly about my wife and may have a better marriage than many. I would miss her. But if I got even a glimmer of hope from my xOW I would do all I could to work toward an amicable end to our marriage and I think my wife would be just as happy with that outcome. We have come close to agreeing to split several times in the last few years as it is.

I miss my best friend and soulmate terribly. I feel so empty. I also worry about her. I have told her that I would end my marriage, move and spend my life with her and her family if she would have me, and I would without hesitation. She asked me for that same thing just a year ago (before she left her husband) and I said I couldn't yet. I have begged her to have just a single conversation with me just to get my feet on the ground but she is maintaining No Contact - the last time we even exchanged anything it was very ambigious about her feelings for me - stating many times how conflicted she is about everything. She never mentioned she loved me - very carefully so I think. She is struggling with her now ex. She has financial challanges, a new job, lost all of her possesions due to bankruptcy and the divorce. Living with a man that I know very little about him or their relationship other than I know she trusts and respects him and she has implied that several months ago there was strictly nothing there but a friendship. I know and trust the feelings that she had for me - I know they are the strongest and most intense she has ever had for anyone (as the same is true for me). I know and trust her values and I know she would likely avoid a rebound relationship unless true feelings formed. She is smart with her feelings and emotions and is a very rational and grounded person. She has found herself in a lot of drama lately but hates it and is not one to seek it out. I have no idea if she has moved into a new relationship or not and maybe that is why she is able and willing to keep the strict NC up. If she has and is happy, I will truly be happy for her as she deserves to be happy but of couse -- it is a whole other set of emotions for me to work through.

The problem is. I have never been so emotionally unballanced in my life and am struggling with work and life in general. My marriage is faultering (I have moved in and our of the house but this is based on problems not involving the xOW). I think I have gone into (and hopefully now back out of) a state of serious depression due to not knowing if there is a possible future with my xOW or not. The email she sent was completely out of the blue and knocked me completely off balance.

I know I have been going though the grief process for a while now and need to pull myself together. I'm starting to get angry with her for not showing me the respect to help me get grounded but when I feel my pride proping me up and I get mad at her -- I don't want to lose the love of my life so I intentionally go back to our rituals and pull myself in, make myself weaker and instead make myself sad again. I don't know how to end this cycle without giving up on her. I know she is struggling in life right now but I want to be part of that struggle. I'm struggling in my own way - I feel the need to commit to my wife or commit to end my marriage. Maybe I should give up on my xOW and create my own closure but all that she and I have shared is truly unique to me. The potential for all that we could be is far more than I have ever had with anyone and more than I could imagine with anyone else. I truly want to be part of her family.

I know I need to make a decision but I don't have the info to make the educated one I really want to make. I don't know if I have the emotional strength right now to walk away from everything at once and just be alone for a while even though that has been an option that I have been weighing.

BTW, I know this isn't fair to my wife, she knows about the feelings that I had for my xOW but thinks that the contact was ended (it was at the time and ironically, the contact is ended now). These are feelings that I cannot help and I have tried to make the best decisions I can involving her. I have always been good to her. I have been carrying around that extreme guilt of my feelings everyday for 5 years - but other than my feelings for my xOW, I have always been a very good husband and do improve the quality of her life. I know it still makes me a cheater and that there are only two ways to change that.

January 22, 2010

BTW, you lied to your wife and never gave your marriage a real shot at surviving by continuing to lie to her. So you find yourself in the quandary, what do you propose to do about it?

January 22, 2010

I was in an affair for about 4 1/2 years. My high school sweetheart, love of my life and best friend at the time found me again almost 5 years ago and we instantly were where we were 25 years ago with added admiration and respect for how we have both navigated difficult lives. When we parted 25 years ago we were still in love and life pulled us apart against our wills. Shortly after we parted, she got pregnant and started a life with someone else. Her first husband. It took me 9 years and 4 relationships before I got over her.

When she found me 5 years ago, she and I were both married. It was a very honest and innocent exchange betwen us for a long time. Both our spouses knew of it and there was nothing to hide. Eventually like was probably inevitable, she and I became best friends first and then madly fell in love again. In 5 years we spent one week together and knew if we repeated it we would not ever be able to part again. My wife originally knew of our contact when it was innocent but later discovered the extent of the relationship. My wife and I almost split then but decided to try to mend things. My OW had her own challenging relationship to work through and children. Mutually, my OW and I agreed to part NC knowing we would one day likely come together when our lives were less complicated and I worked on my marriage to see if I could salvage it. After just 3 weeks my OW couldn't handle the NC and was completely falling apart at the seams. We strongly defined the contact we would have and what that contact would be and defined our relationship as platonic despite our strong feelings.

We kept the newly defined relationship hidden from our spouses and swore not to let the friendship affect our marriages. Those definitions shifted over time. We became the closest we had both ever been with another person and grew more and more and more emotionally in love the next 3 years. We had opportunity but avoided physical contact. We stayed in our marriages with overtures to a future but not careful to commit to one for fear of hurting the other.

Her marriage became abusive and I did all I could to try to get her though it to safe harbor. She told me for 3 years that she would leave him for me if only I would ask but I tried not to have opinions on her husband but made sure she knew that what she was going through was not healthy. I encouraged and pushed her to become strong and independant and she even went after her degree which she gave up on twice before. I also let her know I couldn't let myself be the reason for her family to split. I wasn't. No one in her life knew about our relationship. Things escalated for her. When she finally left him, I took a very close look at my marriage and decided that I had been putting in all this effort and living my life for the last 3 years to keep my wife happy and it was time to leave mine too but when my OW found out that my wife and I were looking at separating she cut off all contact with me. She had once told me she could never be the reason we split, that she couldn't live with the guilt.

She left me by sending me an email that basically said she had a lot in her life to figure out with her and her kids, and that it seemed like I did too -- that she knew we believed there was some plan for us but she knew that now was not the right time. That we shouldn't talk or write anymore and that someday things had to be better and she would find me. My only way to reach her was an email account she wasn't really going to be checking. She changed her number. Moved in with a divorced male friend of hers and his son (in her words "as a sort of roomate situtation" for financial reasons) who I'm not sure if she was is in a relationship with (but they did sort of "family date").

It has been 5 months since she has called me on the phone (we talked daily for several hours for over 4 years) and will be 3 months since we have traded an email. She asked me 3 months ago not to come see her, that it would be emotionally too hard.

I don't know where I stand with her at all. I am head over heels in love with her and have been most of my life. Only weeks before she ended it she was telling me how she was still in love with me. She has been my soulmate since I was 18 and we finish each others thoughts. I honestly believe we are meant to be together but life just never lined up for us. I told her that the only way we will be together is to make life line up for us -- for us to be brave and take a chance. I have sent her emails and cards asking her to please please talk with me so that I can get either closure on the relationship or some hope of a future from her - at this point I just need either as I am falling apart where I am.

My wife and I are still together. We are somewhat broken and have been for a very long time but not in ways that we still don't add value to each other's lives -- just both living in a very parallel disconnected marriage with seperate friends and support networks. She thinks I may be going though midlife crisis - maybe I am.

If I got closure from my xOW, I think I could work hard and maybe improve my marriage a little and make my wife happier - never enough for me to be truly happy but maybe more content than going through a long hard split and being miserable. She is a good person and I still care dearly about my wife and may have a better marriage than many. I would miss her. But if I got even a glimmer of hope from my xOW I would do all I could to work toward an amicable end to our marriage and I think my wife would be just as happy with that outcome. We have come close to agreeing to split several times in the last few years as it is.

I miss my best friend and soulmate terribly. I feel so empty. I also worry about her. I have told her that I would end my marriage, move and spend my life with her and her family if she would have me, and I would without hesitation. She asked me for that same thing just a year ago (before she left her husband) and I said I couldn't yet. I have begged her to have just a single conversation with me just to get my feet on the ground but she is maintaining No Contact - the last time we even exchanged anything it was very ambigious about her feelings for me - stating many times how conflicted she is about everything. She never mentioned she loved me - very carefully so I think. She is struggling with her now ex. She has financial challanges, a new job, lost all of her possesions due to bankruptcy and the divorce. Living with a man that I know very little about him or their relationship other than I know she trusts and respects him and she has implied that several months ago there was strictly nothing there but a friendship. I know and trust the feelings that she had for me - I know they are the strongest and most intense she has ever had for anyone (as the same is true for me). I know and trust her values and I know she would likely avoid a rebound relationship unless true feelings formed. She is smart with her feelings and emotions and is a very rational and grounded person. She has found herself in a lot of drama lately but hates it and is not one to seek it out. I have no idea if she has moved into a new relationship or not and maybe that is why she is able and willing to keep the strict NC up. If she has and is happy, I will truly be happy for her as she deserves to be happy but of couse -- it is a whole other set of emotions for me to work through.

The problem is. I have never been so emotionally unballanced in my life and am struggling with work and life in general. My marriage is faultering (I have moved in and our of the house but this is based on problems not involving the xOW). I think I have gone into (and hopefully now back out of) a state of serious depression due to not knowing if there is a possible future with my xOW or not. The email she sent was completely out of the blue and knocked me completely off balance.

I know I have been going though the grief process for a while now and need to pull myself together. I'm starting to get angry with her for not showing me the respect to help me get grounded but when I feel my pride proping me up and I get mad at her -- I don't want to lose the love of my life so I intentionally go back to our rituals and pull myself in, make myself weaker and instead make myself sad again. I don't know how to end this cycle without giving up on her. I know she is struggling in life right now but I want to be part of that struggle. I'm struggling in my own way - I feel the need to commit to my wife or commit to end my marriage. Maybe I should give up on my xOW and create my own closure but all that she and I have shared is truly unique to me. The potential for all that we could be is far more than I have ever had with anyone and more than I could imagine with anyone else. I truly want to be part of her family.

I know I need to make a decision but I don't have the info to make the educated one I really want to make. I don't know if I have the emotional strength right now to walk away from everything at once and just be alone for a while even though that has been an option that I have been weighing.

BTW, I know this isn't fair to my wife, she knows about the feelings that I had for my xOW but thinks that the contact was ended (it was at the time and ironically, the contact is ended now). These are feelings that I cannot help and I have tried to make the best decisions I can involving her. I have always been good to her. I have been carrying around that extreme guilt of my feelings everyday for 5 years - but other than my feelings for my xOW, I have always been a very good husband and do improve the quality of her life. I know it still makes me a cheater and that there are only two ways to change that.

She wants you to leave your wife during NC so that it doesn't come back on her and her reputation. If I'm wrong, you've D'd for no reason. If I'm right, you hit the jackpot.

Don't leave one for the other. Leave one because you two are not right for each other. Go find the other one as a single guy (SG) before it is too late.

You have answered your own question by saying you don't know if you have the emotional strength, etc. You DO! You KNOW the capacity of love you have for this OW but you're saying you won't leave your W unless you know the OW is waiting on the other side. Ever consider that your OW NEEDS YOU TO BE A MAN??? Move out and get a apartment. Look her up in person and tell her you've left. See where it goes from there.

My guess is she's waiting for you to make a decision on your own. Sounds like something I might have preferred.

January 22, 2010

Sit your wife down and READ her this post.

You should be telling HER these things and NOT us.

And if you don't have the strength to do that...MC. And THEN read it there...with the MC present.

January 22, 2010

Maybe she's just waiting for you to get D on your own, without her in the picture, so you can be together? After 5 years you haven't done that, and she's not M anymore, and you still haven't done it. Saying you're going to do it, and doing it, are 2 different things. There's a ton of posts on here from OW who's MM said they'd leave their wife & haven't. You kinda seem to be one of them. Is that fair to her? She's just trying to move on, and good for her.

Just do first things first...leave your wife w/ no hope of getting together with OW. When that dust has settled, see if you have a shot. You want this ultimate brass ring, but you're not willing to take one risk to get it. She's pretty much taken all the risks. Yeah, I like her too.

January 22, 2010

"Her marriage became abusive and I did all I could to try to get her though it to safe harbor"

it's actually other way around, you helped her M to become abusive and eventually to end(anyways good for him)

now do a favor to your W with a D, obviously you do not have any guilt or regret over this, 5yrs is enough amount of torture for her...then you can plan for happily ever after endings

January 22, 2010

She wants you to leave your wife during NC so that it doesn't come back on her and her reputation. If I'm wrong, you've D'd for no reason. If I'm right, you hit the jackpot.

Don't leave one for the other. Leave one because you two are not right for each other. Go find the other one as a single guy (SG) before it is too late.

You have answered your own question by saying you don't know if you have the emotional strength, etc. You DO! You KNOW the capacity of love you have for this OW but you're saying you won't leave your W unless you know the OW is waiting on the other side. Ever consider that your OW NEEDS YOU TO BE A MAN??? Move out and get a apartment. Look her up in person and tell her you've left. See where it goes from there.

My guess is she's waiting for you to make a decision on your own. Sounds like something I might have preferred.

WF....totally agree, I too saw the love he has for his HS sweetheart, I feared he would get nothing but uncaring replies...thank God I was wrong. His M was over before he became involved with his HS sweetheart, it took her to cause him to see that, although it was not her fault, breakdowns in M's are not the result of AP, sometimes they are the realisation of the denial of the breakdown.

Pete, you sound just like my SO....stone cold in love with me...God knows he went about things mostly all of the wrong ways, but my anger is gone and I see it the way I saw it when I first realised that I loved him...just like that, no if, ands, or buts, that is all she wrote and my heart has not changed since.

My SO is scared, we had great difficulties during his D and we were both going through a lot separatly and together...he has his issues concerning my behavior and vice versa, but the bottom line is he did the right thing (in the end)....ok being straight up.....oh man I am gonna get nailed for this one....

This is how I feel, he was M and so was I, I got D'ed, not because of him but because of me....we remained "friends/EA"....he stayed M, but remained in EA....I felt used sorta....so I went NC because I did not want to sell myself short and did not feel he had the courage to D...but it happened.....still I'm feeling bitter about all that has gone on and he disrespected me....and in my family that is a big NO NO....so he chased me, and I did like this, although not at first because I was still mad and just wanted to be left alone to deal with the hurt....he still chased and used the "M" word....now he has my attention....then he is really chasing....can't live without me ect....ok now complete attention...so what if it is ego or whatever....I am an undying love person and needed to hear that...go to the ends of ther earth, die for you sorta person....and to know my SO, unless it is the truth, undying love does not come out of this mans mouth....especially after a grueling D.

I know I'll get torn up for this one, but you know what, I had a bad day and drank a glass of wine ....my daughter got into a car accident with 2 of my grandchildren, the other car a W and H and all walked away alive!!!!!!!!!!! Life is tooooo short and guess who was right at the scene for my daughter and grandkids....my SO/exMM....

January 22, 2010

Maybe she's just waiting for you to get D on your own, without her in the picture, so you can be together? After 5 years you haven't done that, and she's not M anymore, and you still haven't done it. Saying you're going to do it, and doing it, are 2 different things. There's a ton of posts on here from OW who's MM said they'd leave their wife & haven't. You kinda seem to be one of them. Is that fair to her? She's just trying to move on, and good for her.

Just do first things first...leave your wife w/ no hope of getting together with OW. When that dust has settled, see if you have a shot. You want this ultimate brass ring, but you're not willing to take one risk to get it. She's pretty much taken all the risks. Yeah, I like her too.

You see it too....

January 22, 2010

"Her marriage became abusive and I did all I could to try to get her though it to safe harbor"
it's actually other way around, you helped her M to become abusive and eventually to end(anyways good for him)

now do a favor to your W with a D, obviously you do not have any guilt or regret over this, 5yrs is enough amount of torture for her...then you can plan for happily ever after endings

Scorp...seems I remember you from back in 2006....new Scorp? Anyway (((hugs)))...you are onery as hedoublelltoothpicks....

January 22, 2010

Sit your wife down and READ her this post.

You should be telling HER these things and NOT us.

And if you don't have the strength to do that...MC. And THEN read it there...with the MC present.

JW, you are the greatest, I wish there were a million of you....hummmmm or maybe 2 or 3 million!

January 22, 2010

wow - you should have called this post "Crucify me" .. I'm with pure in the suprise at the lack of "you're a sh*i" comments ....

I feel for you, I really do. I kept feelings alive for someone for many, many years .. in fact I still have them now .. but in an ok way.

I don't necessarily agree with people who say leave your wife, or those who say go to the OW ... I wonder instead if perhaps where you need to focus your attention is on why, if you can't have her, then you will settle for what you appear to say is the "second option".

Why does Pete feel that he has to settle? would be my opening question ...

And make an individual counsellor appointment asap and show them your post would be my suggestion.

I don't believe this is about the OW or your wife, it's actually about you and until you get to the bottom of it you might not be wise to make any descision.

I don';t think it's about what you want either, or what your wife wants, or what the OW might want .. you're all adults and it's about what's right for each of you, independantly.

It sounds to me like your OW is dealing with her issues (from the relationship and possible self worth etc) and is no longer needing you to validate her ... you clearly have feelings for her so you can be pleased that for her as an individual this is wonderful news - she is becoming compete and whole.

You and your wife seem to have a degree of honesty about the situation, so unless you are 100% sure about leaving her then just be honest and tell her you are going to IC .... if you have ANY feelings for your wife you might steer her to an appointment with her own IC as well.

You will fix what is missing within you and she will have a chance to do the same ... maybe after that you will both decide it is right for each of you to be together, maybe one or both of you will reaslise it is not right for them ... unless each of you is "complete" as an individual then it's not going to get any better (even if you and the OW did hook up!).

As part of being more complete you will realise that you don't NEED another person to validate you. So if you choose to have a relationship it will be at an entirely better level.

I think life has done you a grand favour ... it's given you a little space to work on yourself ...

Just make sure you show how much you care for your wife as a person by encouraging her to go to an IC aswell ... and accept that this might mean she grows as well.

January 23, 2010

wow - you should have called this post "Crucify me" .. I'm with pure in the suprise at the lack of "you're a sh*i" comments ....

I feel for you, I really do. I kept feelings alive for someone for many, many years .. in fact I still have them now .. but in an ok way.

I don't necessarily agree with people who say leave your wife, or those who say go to the OW ... I wonder instead if perhaps where you need to focus your attention is on why, if you can't have her, then you will settle for what you appear to say is the "second option".

Why does Pete feel that he has to settle? would be my opening question ...

And make an individual counsellor appointment asap and show them your post would be my suggestion.

I don't believe this is about the OW or your wife, it's actually about you and until you get to the bottom of it you might not be wise to make any descision.

I don';t think it's about what you want either, or what your wife wants, or what the OW might want .. you're all adults and it's about what's right for each of you, independantly.

It sounds to me like your OW is dealing with her issues (from the relationship and possible self worth etc) and is no longer needing you to validate her ... you clearly have feelings for her so you can be pleased that for her as an individual this is wonderful news - she is becoming compete and whole.

You and your wife seem to have a degree of honesty about the situation, so unless you are 100% sure about leaving her then just be honest and tell her you are going to IC .... if you have ANY feelings for your wife you might steer her to an appointment with her own IC as well.

You will fix what is missing within you and she will have a chance to do the same ... maybe after that you will both decide it is right for each of you to be together, maybe one or both of you will reaslise it is not right for them ... unless each of you is "complete" as an individual then it's not going to get any better (even if you and the OW did hook up!).

As part of being more complete you will realise that you don't NEED another person to validate you. So if you choose to have a relationship it will be at an entirely better level.

I think life has done you a grand favour ... it's given you a little space to work on yourself ...

Just make sure you show how much you care for your wife as a person by encouraging her to go to an IC aswell ... and accept that this might mean she grows as well.

SP, I wish I had the communication skills that you are gifted with! Also a gift to communicate the truth and understand what IT is.

In "bold" this to me is the key concerning all types of relationships...it doesnot mean that we will not hurt, or be sad or experience loss...no way...it means that should we have a loss of any type, we will handle it in a mature manor, and WILL deal with it properly. In the sense of gain we will handle that gain on a higher level and the chance of "breakdown" is at a low percentage.

Everyone is different, although what I have found in different stages of my life is "people", meaning both men and women were more attracted to me when I was upbeat, didn't gossip, laughed a lot, caring/compassionate, truthful, and energetic. I have seen doormat, oh poor me, bitchy, gossips, negative, controlling, selfish, selfrighteous, ect.. To me and others these behaviors and attitudes are just simply "bullying" tactics to "rally" people against others causing many decentions....just not attractive...

When one is content with themselves it is obvious, and yes there will be much jealousy (most of it is unsaid, although it is easy to sense) as those who walk in hatred and much unforgiveness absloutely cannot stand upbeat, happy/possitive people...no matter how cool you try to be with them, they will find something....although this is what is cool about "not needing another person to validate you".

SP and others, you guys are the bomb! I am so grateful to learn so much, and am finding my way back to me....wow, too cool, thank you!

January 23, 2010

Pete,

You need to make a TWO separate and distinct decisions here, each one independant of the other.

The first is, do you want to repair your marriage and stay in it? If the answer is YES, or even MAYBE, then you need to work on that, first and foremost. You have to be honest with your wife about the fact that you feel something is missing, and perhaps start IC and MC and really put your whole heart and soul into it. Anything less is unfair to your wife. You will never be able to make your wife totally happy while pining away for another woman. And if you love your wife, then you need to either give her your everything, or let her go so that she has the opportunity to find a man who is willing to give her his everything.

If the answer is NO, then you need to start divorce proceedings regardless of the chances of OW ever being in your life again. You should divorce because you are finished with your marriage, not because there is someone else out there waiting. Get a divorce and stand on your own two feet. Be whole alone, and then you will be able to make the second decision you need to make...

The second decision is, do you think you can live your life without your OW? If the answer is YES, then you should just let her go, stop trying to contact her, stop trying to figure out why she is doing what she is doing. She is simply doing what so many on these boards tell OW to do, she went NC, she is working on herself, and she is leaving you alone to work out your own sh*t without her waiting on the sidelines. She is putting herself first, since you didn't.

But this woman has suffered enough. If you are not ready to commit to her and only her, then it is kinder to just leave her alone. It may be hard for you, but that is where real love comes in.. real love is about doing what is best for the person you love, acting in an unselfish manner, and giving them whatever they need in order to be whole and healthy.

My guess is, that if you went to her with the ink dry on divorce papers, and told her that you divorced because it was the right thing for you to do, not because of her. And that you would love to date her, and see what kind of future the two of you may have, then I think she would be receptive, so long as she has not already gotten involved with someone else. But, my friend, that is a chance you have to take. She may have already moved on, and the longer it has taken you to figure out what you really want, the better the chances that she has.

I do not envy you the choices you have to make.. but if you make them from a place of real love for these two women that have loved you (and by that I mean a place of thinking 'what is best for my wife, what is best for my OW', rather than thinking what is best for yourself) then they should be choices that once made, will give your heart peace, even if it means that in the end, you will be alone, without either of these two women.

January 25, 2010

OK here goes..... First, I'd like to thank everyone who has posted for being so kind and gracious. I know that it is easy to judge especially when we pull our own experiences into it - and all of us have experiences that are noteworthy or I suppose we wouldn't be here. I know I've left you all a lot to judge.

um a few things... I may have, but don't think that I have turned to either relationship for personal validation. I suppose it's a bit hard to self evaluate that - especially in the emotional mess I've been in lately. I do care a great deal about both women and I do honestly believe I have added more value to both of their lives than I have harmed either of them. Both relationships have added a great deal of value to my life. My wife and I have a good partnership but I have altered my expectations over the years to cater to hers and in connecting with my OW I think I may have discovered how much I have truly lost out on. I know my contact with my OW hurt my wife but I don't think it directly damaged the state of my marriage. I think my OW made me understand myself better which may have changed the way I viewed the marriage.

Even outside of loving each other, my OW and I have enormous respect and admiration for each other. We had more trust and the need for openness and honesty with the other than I have ever shared with any other person in my life. There were no walls between us. I think it comes from having first fell in love before either of us were ever really hurt by anyone else. I have never lied or withheld anything from her, not ever. I've never mislead her in anyway about anything. My friendship with her 25, 22 years ago and the last 5 years has surpassed any in my life. Nobody has ever known or understood me more completely or even wanted to try to. My wife and I don't have the ability to be that vulnerable to the other, we never have - it's just not who we are to each other - we both had damage before we met.

A few things I didn't mention before. This was the 3rd time in life my OW and my lives had crossed. Each time the situations of our lives did not allow us to come together but each time both of us were very sure that we were meant to. I sit here right now very positive that I am meant to be with her regardless of any choices I have made in life or any choice that I will make. My largest regrets in life revolve around how I let life bully me into letting her go in the past.

I'm gonna get really beat up here for saying this but my OW and I had no intention of ever crossing our moral lines, we had confidence in our morals and actually just wanted to be content in being whatever we "could be" to each other. We actually fought our feelings very hard but we also didn't feel like we had the strength of knowing the other was out there and not having a role in the other's life -- cutting off contact completely. Neither of us had ever been unfaithful in any relationships that we had been in and we didn't become closer thinking we would be. Although she had been on the otherside of more infidelity than anyone ever should have to -- and I think at times it made what we ended up sharing even more difficult for her. I'm not saying that any of this justifies anything. We all make choices based on what is in front of us and it is what it is.

When my wife discovered how closely my OW and I had become, my OW and I did both mutually agree to end the relationship. My wife and I did go to MC which actually uncovered many many flaws in our marriage. She actually thinks MC hurt us more than helped. I did do full disclosure including the extent of my feelings for my OW in MC. It was only later my OW completely falling apart at the seams and the pain I saw I was causing her that re-started the contact between us.

I honestly did make a very real attempt to repair the marriage but I think like the recovery from most affairs, all the burden was on my shoulders (which I think I unconsciously accepted because of the guilt I felt) even though I didn't own and couldn't fix all the problems of our marriage myself. After huge amounts of effort for long periods of time and little progress, I think that maybe I was driven to give in to stop fighting so hard at becoming closer with my OW. um... and I had been in love with this woman for pretty much my entire life before I was married.

Right now I honestly don't know what I'm going to do.

I love my wife in our own way. I value my marriage and always have, before and through all of this. I cannot fix my marriage to be what I wish it was, it just can't get there but it is not toxic either. Hurting my wife damages me just as much (my OW knows this). Even if we ended the marriage, I could never share with my wife the fact that my OW and I kept in touch and grew so close before her divorce. It would be pain for no other purpose than to clear my conscience and that would be truly selfish. I have no reason to hurt her for my piece of mind. There are many other valid reasons for my wife and I to consider moving on apart - and just as many to stay together - I don't think I need to make my OW one of the things I share in ending my marriage and I know my OW wouldn't want it. If I was given the choice again to end it 3 years ago before trying to repair it I would - but life doesn't work that way. I have spent so much of my life making choices that were right for others, I just want to make some that make me happy for a change - but it appears I may have lost the window for that -- but I know my OW wasn't ready to drag her kids out of her life 3 years ago either even though she had plenty of good reasons.

I honestly do just want my OW to find happiness, she so deserves it. If she told me she was in a relationship and was happy, I would truthfully be happy for her and I could move on. But selfishly, I am very very scared about forever losing her from my life. I have lost her before twice. I know it's selfish but I can't help but want the happiness that I know is possible with her. I truly like who I am with her more than who I am without her. I sit here right now and believe with all my heart and soul that she and I were meant to be together from 17 years old...but life choices, obligation, and bad timing has kept us apart. There is no doubt in my mind if there is such a thing as a soulmate, she is mine. I can honestly say I am heartbroken right now.

I think my OW is in another relationship. I know her well and I suspect she must be happy or I think she would have great trouble being NC. I think she also might be NC because she knows she would disclose and doesn't want to discuss it with me and feel guilt about it. I'm not sure, but I think one reason she is completely NC right now is because she wants to remove herself completely from the equation if my marriage ends.

Whatever her reasons, she doesn't want me in her life at the moment and there is nothing I can do about that. I wish I understood more. So much has changed in her life - everything has changed in her life - not understanding if she is struggling or if she is safe; not knowing how her kids are; wondering about her son who is about to be deployed; wondering about her financial situation; not knowing if she is happy or sad; not understanding if her feeling about me have changed or if she sees me as a possible future, it all truly has me emotionally off balance. I have a twinge of jealousy I am fighting too because I know she wouldn't let herself be in a relationship casually.

I'll probably get flamed for this but from the other side, if you don't have closure or reassurance and you are still in love with the person, NC is cruel and cold. The indifference to your needing to understand where you stand when you have fully communicated your feelings is truly the most painful thing in the world. It's now been 64 days since I got the cut off email and 120 since we've spoken - every single day has been filled with pain. While it might give the person doing it strength, NC can truly destroy the other person. If you truly hold someone's heart and you're moving on - you really should help them get closure unless you want to hurt them badly. Just my opinion.

Anyway...

I just want to say, thanks to all who have posted. I honestly do appreciate all of the constructive comments, they truly have helped.

January 25, 2010

BB thank you so much for the kind words. They are very welcome right now.

January 26, 2010

Hey Pete... Please know that you are not alone in feeling this way about your first love. I have been reading (researching) a little, and from what I understand "rekindling" as they call it is on the upswing - mostly due to the internet, Facebook, ClassMates.com, etc., which makes it easier for people to find their old loves. General concensus is that unless you are single it is best not to contact an old love, since those who are already married to someone else or in a relationship can find themselves in exactly the same situation as you now find yourself. There are actually some interesting statistics drawn from studies of people who have "reunited" as to whether their relationships re-ignite, and the success of their reunions. Statistically, re-uniting with an old flame from when you were 17 to 20 is the most volatile since it results in marriage breakups between married flames and is apparently almost irresistable. If you look around the net a bit, I am sure you will find some of the same articles I did. It helps to know that your feelings are "normal" - but also that our psches actually propel the attraction to levels where we are obsessed.

Ah, yes... I said the "we" word. You and I are a little different, since neither of us reunited with an old flame via the internet. I have been in touch with my old flame for the last 20 years... he contacted me out of the blue after his divorce. By that time I had married and had two children. The connection was immediate (again!), and we kept in contact by phone and snail mail on a fairly regular basis. Once every few years he would get back to town (he lives on the opposite coast) and we would meet for lunch or to hang out. I was a proud idiot and never told him about my marriage, which had its problems...and I was careful not to cross what I thought at the time was "the line". Back then nobody talked about Emotional Affairs, and so I thought as long as we didn't cross the line, that there was no real harm done. In fact I made sure that I stayed away from the line - the temptation was so great that I knew it would be the point of no return, and I had a family to consider. Sometimes I would go "underground" - change jobs and not give him the new number, or not answer emails - especially when my marriage problems were escalating. I figured that it was best to keep him out of the equation and concentrate on my marriage without distraction. He always found me... Several years ago he met someone, they moved in together, and he called me with the surprise news that he had married her the weekend before. Why I would be hurt, I don't know, but I was so upset I had to hang up. I did see him a couple of years ago and temptation got the best of the both of us. Some things just don't change, and it was as though we had always been together. A few months after that, he and his second wife split up.

Fast forward twenty years - the kids are grown, my marriage problems are greater than ever, and I have finally reached the point where I can no longer continue in my marriage which I call the "Hotel California" - you know, you can check out any time but you can never leave... I am working towards leaving - it is hard - the house is a huge albatross hung around my neck - it's not easy extradicating yourself from 30 years...

When I decided last year that I was done, it really didn't occur to me that this was an opportunity for us to really be together, but now that neither of us will be in a R (we are both still technically married to others) everything has boiled to the surface. Our hope is that once I have settled my albatross, that we will be with each other.

I have not told my H any of this. Separating is difficult enough without adding insult to injury. My mind is made up, so there is little reason to add salt to the wound. I do understand though how you feel when you think about leaving your wife to be with your flame. It really can seem like you are putting yourself first. With my H, I am trying to make it perfectly clear that I will not change my mind. He is still in the denial stage (I hear that the anger comes next) so I am edging forward slowly.

My thought here is that it is more difficult to leave a marriage when there is someone waiting in the wings, or someone that you desperately want to be with. The guilt is horrible - moreso than if you were leaving because they were abusive, alcoholic, unreasonable - whatever. You always wonder if you are flavoring the marriage as being intolerable just to justify making yourself happy.

I think that this is why MM seem to waiver back and forth between their wives and their OW - the guilt at leaving an innocent spouse is a huge weight. Hence the "false starts".

I watch myself very carefully with my OM, but sometimes it is so hard not to say - oh, next year we'll have a real Christmas Tree! Which is a "promise". I really shouldn't say anything even like that - just in case I can't check out of the Hotel California for some crazy reason - I don't want to get ahead of myself.

In your situation, it is very possible that she still feels for you, assuming that you didn't do too much damage when you broke up. You may never know.

My thought here though is that you are carrying emotional baggage that you revert to when times are tough at home. If you do decide to separate from your wife, make sure that it is for the right reasons, and not because you are lusting for the illusion of happiness.

Before anybody throws tomatoes at me, I am leaving my marriage for plenty of damn good reasons. You know you've got it right when your grown children say to you that they don't know how you managed to hang in that long, and are happy that you have a second chance at love.

Pete, let us know how you are doing.

January 26, 2010

Hey Pete... Please know that you are not alone in feeling this way about your first love. I have been reading (researching) a little, and from what I understand "rekindling" as they call it is on the upswing - mostly due to the internet, Facebook, ClassMates.com, etc., which makes it easier for people to find their old loves. General concensus is that unless you are single it is best not to contact an old love, since those who are already married to someone else or in a relationship can find themselves in exactly the same situation as you now find yourself. There are actually some interesting statistics drawn from studies of people who have "reunited" as to whether their relationships re-ignite, and the success of their reunions. Statistically, re-uniting with an old flame from when you were 17 to 20 is the most volatile since it results in marriage breakups between married flames and is apparently almost irresistable. If you look around the net a bit, I am sure you will find some of the same articles I did. It helps to know that your feelings are "normal" - but also that our psches actually propel the attraction to levels where we are obsessed.

Ah, yes... I said the "we" word. You and I are a little different, since neither of us reunited with an old flame via the internet. I have been in touch with my old flame for the last 20 years... he contacted me out of the blue after his divorce. By that time I had married and had two children. The connection was immediate (again!), and we kept in contact by phone and snail mail on a fairly regular basis. Once every few years he would get back to town (he lives on the opposite coast) and we would meet for lunch or to hang out. I was a proud idiot and never told him about my marriage, which had its problems...and I was careful not to cross what I thought at the time was "the line". Back then nobody talked about Emotional Affairs, and so I thought as long as we didn't cross the line, that there was no real harm done. In fact I made sure that I stayed away from the line - the temptation was so great that I knew it would be the point of no return, and I had a family to consider. Sometimes I would go "underground" - change jobs and not give him the new number, or not answer emails - especially when my marriage problems were escalating. I figured that it was best to keep him out of the equation and concentrate on my marriage without distraction. He always found me... Several years ago he met someone, they moved in together, and he called me with the surprise news that he had married her the weekend before. Why I would be hurt, I don't know, but I was so upset I had to hang up. I did see him a couple of years ago and temptation got the best of the both of us. Some things just don't change, and it was as though we had always been together. A few months after that, he and his second wife split up.
Fast forward twenty years - the kids are grown, my marriage problems are greater than ever, and I have finally reached the point where I can no longer continue in my marriage which I call the "Hotel California" - you know, you can check out any time but you can never leave... I am working towards leaving - it is hard - the house is a huge albatross hung around my neck - it's not easy extradicating yourself from 30 years...

When I decided last year that I was done, it really didn't occur to me that this was an opportunity for us to really be together, but now that neither of us will be in a R (we are both still technically married to others) everything has boiled to the surface. Our hope is that once I have settled my albatross, that we will be with each other.

I have not told my H any of this. Separating is difficult enough without adding insult to injury. My mind is made up, so there is little reason to add salt to the wound. I do understand though how you feel when you think about leaving your wife to be with your flame. It really can seem like you are putting yourself first. With my H, I am trying to make it perfectly clear that I will not change my mind. He is still in the denial stage (I hear that the anger comes next) so I am edging forward slowly.

My thought here is that it is more difficult to leave a marriage when there is someone waiting in the wings, or someone that you desperately want to be with. The guilt is horrible - moreso than if you were leaving because they were abusive, alcoholic, unreasonable - whatever. You always wonder if you are flavoring the marriage as being intolerable just to justify making yourself happy.

I think that this is why MM seem to waiver back and forth between their wives and their OW - the guilt at leaving an innocent spouse is a huge weight. Hence the "false starts".

I watch myself very carefully with my OM, but sometimes it is so hard not to say - oh, next year we'll have a real Christmas Tree! Which is a "promise". I really shouldn't say anything even like that - just in case I can't check out of the Hotel California for some crazy reason - I don't want to get ahead of myself.

In your situation, it is very possible that she still feels for you, assuming that you didn't do too much damage when you broke up. You may never know.

My thought here though is that you are carrying emotional baggage that you revert to when times are tough at home. If you do decide to separate from your wife, make sure that it is for the right reasons, and not because you are lusting for the illusion of happiness.

Before anybody throws tomatoes at me, I am leaving my marriage for plenty of damn good reasons. You know you've got it right when your grown children say to you that they don't know how you managed to hang in that long, and are happy that you have a second chance at love.

Pete, let us know how you are doing.

Wow..I gotta to say I really enjoyed your story. I hope things work out for you and your man.. FINALLY after all these years:love:.

I had a high school crush who got in touch with me after 20 years thru one of the website you mentioned. There was also an instant connection.

Good Luck!

January 27, 2010

Pete. I think it is evident from your posts that you are truly in pain. I understand where you are coming from because many years ago a very significant 3 year relationship (we were both single, never been married) with someone I considered my soulmate ended. We had known each other as friends for many years before embarking into a romantic relationship and engagement. But just like that it ended. I did not see it coming and like you I was heartbroken and devastated. He left me with not so much as a word. Just a note on the table telling me how much he loved me but just that he could not commit. The hardest thing was not hearing from him again. I on the other hand wanted to talk about it all but I never got the chance. It was a gut wrenching pain. After that I just wanted closure. It never came and so I leaned to deal with it myself. It took me 5 long years to finally get over the pain and hurt. And then guess what happened? He called to apologise...blah blah blah. By then it was way to late and I really wasn't interested one iota because I had healed myself! Today some 15 years later we are the best of friends. On my part there are no romantic feelings. In fact he sometimes gets on my nerves and I see how life has dealt me a lucky card. One day I hope you get past your pain, move on with your life and see there are better, brighter times ahead. The universe has a way of dealing us what we need, not always what we what. As Garth Brook sings " some of God's greatest gifts are unanswered prayers"

All the very best.

Edited January 27, 2010 by her_halo_slipped

January 27, 2010

I'll probably get flamed for this but from the other side, if you don't have closure or reassurance and you are still in love with the person, NC is cruel and cold. The indifference to your needing to understand where you stand when you have fully communicated your feelings is truly the most painful thing in the world. It's now been 64 days since I got the cut off email and 120 since we've spoken - every single day has been filled with pain. While it might give the person doing it strength, NC can truly destroy the other person. If you truly hold someone's heart and you're moving on - you really should help them get closure unless you want to hurt them badly. Just my opinion.

Hi Pete,

I don't think you should get flamed for being honest.

Your update reminds me of the situation I had with my MW - whom I loved to bits.

She repeatedly said she would only leave for me, and if I was not there she would not leave.

I used to call this the "soft landing" approach. She would leave if she knew that her landing was guaranteed but if there was any risk she wouldn't.

Worse than that, she was also saying that she was quite willing to play her H along with her descision - all dependant upon whether or not she decided whether there was a soft landing for HER.

At the same time I had moved my child and me from a differnet country with no guarantee of a soft landing.

The more she pursued this line the more shallow I saw her as. Her H (who is a human being just like you and me) was, for her, something to be used of in response to her descision ...

I may be wrong but is seems to me you are looking for a GUARANTEE before you jump ... and if you jump you will let let your wife go, but if you don't see that soft landing or guarantee then you will not jump and you will keep hold of your wife.

When my MW presented this argument to me I realised that if she was able to use someone else like that then she was not like me at all. I couldn't do it - and years ago when I was unhappy and had an A I proceeded to divorce with no soft landing.

An observation - you say you are adding to your wife's life etc etc but are you? To still be with you then surely she either still has feelings for you or is just afraid of being alone ... how does you staying with her (because you can't see your guaranteed landing) help her in either of these scenarios?

My original post adocated doing nothing at this time because you need to get IC.

Your clarification leads me to think you, in fact, know exactly where you are. If there is GUARANTEED RESULT you will take the risk (wow ... !!!) if there is not then you will choose to let your wife keep having you in her life (wow ... !!!)

I'm not being hard or agressive on you .. but come on man .. that's not a decent human viewpoint to have.

Yes I know love hurts and trust me I've carried flames for more than 15 years ....

The last call my MW made to me she was still angling after her guaranteed landing (and still implying that she would keep H if it wasn't there) .. my last words ... "for christ's sake, get some integrity, if you want to leave leave, if you don't then don't."

You're not acting nice Pete, you're expecting guarantees and if you don';t get them your willing to make one-side descisions that affect SOMEONE ELSES life.

My advice now is to tell your wife that if this OW guarantees you a soft landing you will leave her, but if not that you will stay.

Doing this will empower your wife to make her own descision as to whether she wants to stay with someone who is willing to make use of her in this way.

I still, also, would suggest IC to look at why you think this other woman is so necessary for you. Trust me she's probably not and the reason you think she is will be what you really need to deal with.

Good luck Pete

Edited January 27, 2010 by silverplanets

January 30, 2010

An observation - you say you are adding to your wife's life etc etc but are you? To still be with you then surely she either still has feelings for you or is just afraid of being alone ... how does you staying with her (because you can't see your guaranteed landing) help her in either of these scenarios?

My original post adocated doing nothing at this time because you need to get IC.

Your clarification leads me to think you, in fact, know exactly where you are. If there is GUARANTEED RESULT you will take the risk (wow ... !!!) if there is not then you will choose to let your wife keep having you in her life (wow ... !!!)

I'm not being hard or agressive on you .. but come on man .. that's not a decent human viewpoint to have.

Yes I know love hurts and trust me I've carried flames for more than 15 years ....

The last call my MW made to me she was still angling after her guaranteed landing (and still implying that she would keep H if it wasn't there) .. my last words ... "for christ's sake, get some integrity, if you want to leave leave, if you don't then don't."

You're not acting nice Pete, you're expecting guarantees and if you don';t get them your willing to make one-side descisions that affect SOMEONE ELSES life.

Hi SP,

Thanks for your comments. I'm sorry you got the impression you did.

My marriage has been close to ending for sometime. My wife is happier than I am in it. My wife is as independent as she could be. I have changed myself and expectations to work around that independence. It's a compromise I make because I want to and the relationship has been worth it. She is not afraid to be by herself, its where she is most comfortable. I am sort of tired of being by myself in the marriage. I place aside what I need because it is who she is as a person and what she needs from life and from me. I make due because I do love her, we have been dear friends for 1/2 my life. She has also been ready to walk away as well a few times.

Ending a relationship is pain, work, hardship, guilt... It affects life long friends, family, pets, children, work, assets. It takes years of peoples lives to work through it all - sometimes they never do. Both people face this and carry the weight for these things - rarely one hurts less than the other. To keep a relationship together, it takes two but to end it takes one making a choice. The person ending it doesn't hurt less, they just hurt different. They have to carry the responsibility of making the choice. Guilt can be as painful, last longer and change you more as a person than betrayal can. Guilt is about choices you made directly, betrayal is about someone else failing to meet your expectations. I suppose what hits you harder just depends on who you are as a person, but you can easily carry guilt for your whole life. I still have guilt about things I did in relationships when I was 20 - but I can't think of any real hurt I still feel from being let down (but it has happened plenty). Not many people let themselves carry betrayal that long.

In your situation...

Maybe your MW was fulfilled, but unhappy in her marriage and wasn't unhappy enough to walk away from it and all that D involves by itself. Maybe all the benefit that she saw in a life with you is what would tip that scale to the other side but without that she was content enough to stay. I don't completely think she is wrong for that. I don't think that necessarily she was being selfish for wanting to understand that you at least had feelings for her that were important enough to you, to make the decision she needed to make.

I don't want to make assumptions to the nature of what your relationship was, I really don't. Relationships aren't black and white.

but... it sounds like she was making a choice that affected her, her children, her husband and pretty much everyone they knew. She was doing this to try to improve her and maybe her kid's lives. She wanted to know what this really really meant before she took it on. It sounds reasonable. She would own the guilt of hurting him, the pain that she would be inflicting on everyone, and the judgment she would face. It's her right to own that and her right to take it on.

In my opinion, it seems like you are being a little rough on her. Even though you were the target she was aiming for - maybe it wasn't really your right to judge her for that. Your situation for leaving your marriage was different - it doesn't sound like you had reservations about how happy you were.

Your MW owned the relationship with her H and the commitment that she didn't want to maintain - you didn't. It's her right to decide that the commitment she made wasn't worth what it originally was given how her relationship, her needs and her options had changed. Life isn't static. A marriage at 19 does not equal the same marriage at 45. It's her right to decide the criteria she uses to make that decision - you personally happened to be *some* of the criteria. No one leaves a relationship based on one factor... but one factor certainly can be the thing that makes the difference on a difficult decision. At any time it's her husband's right to make those same choices.

I say good for her for trying to understand as much as she could before she just went and did it. Maybe all that pain that she would put others and herself thru and all the change she would take on wasn't worth starting from scratch to her - but maybe the possibility of a life with you and the happiness that would bring to her life was.

We are responsible for the pain we bring to other people for not meeting their expectations but we are also responsible for making choices that make ourselves happy. It's a balance everyone has to find themselves. You can't blame her if the tipping point for her was you. You weren't the reason, you were *a* reason that maybe mattered enough to her.

She would not have come out of her marriage unscarred if she left with you waiting or to be on her own, no one in her family would, but maybe you were worth those scars to her - but maybe she loved you enough that you were worth the pain, work and responsibility.

On my situation...

Please don't take me wrong. I personally was never looking for anything like a "guaranteed landing". I'm very very in love with someone and have been for a very long time and she has been with me. Long before I ever knew my wife. My OW was my closest friend and as a friend has carried me though hard times and I have carried her - both as a child and an adult.

She enters the most difficult time of her life, we discuss a change toward a future that has been discussed many times but on a more serious footing and then kind of out of the blue, one email to me and no contact for 4 months. I don't even know if she is alive.

Besides the pains of divorce to get there, a relationship with my OW would be a life 1000 times more complicated, more drama, and more unstable than my current one or even being alone would ever be. Besides all the normal things that involve the end of a marriage... leaving all my friends, family, support network and moving to a very rural part of the country that wouldn't support my current career...trying to become a step parent to 4 children who wouldn't know me. It's a very complicated situation with a very complex former relationship; a very complex ex; a very complex ex family and friends; huge money problems. Emotionally she is realizing how much her old relationship has hurt her and her children and trying to work through that. She is living a much lower standard of living and the challenges that come with that. She needs 16 credit hours for her degree but probably will have no way to get there for a very long time.

Trust me, I don't want or have the illusion of any guarantee or promises of anything at all much less a soft landing. On the contrary, I would be in way over my head, just as she is. It's more risk and work than being alone but the payout would be worth it to me. There is no one I would rather take on an impossible situation with. All I would want to hear is that she loves me and she still wants me to grab a shovel and jump in with her. I don't want any guarantee of anything from her. I don't have any magic bullet for her but I would do whatever I could to be happy and make her and her family happy. If I were to try to by her side I would have a life to wrap up, a career to end and a marriage and separation to work though and I don't think an open line of communication is too much to ask for.

I think one reason that she may have cut off contact is that she knows that her life is really messy right now and that she would rather hurt me and keep me out of it than know that I truly need to be struggling with her. Maybe she is risking to see if maybe I'm on the other side. We have a specific way to send a signal to the other that we will never have a future that doesn't involve contact and she hasn't done that but that might just be not yet. I also think she feels guilt that I would have to hurt myself and my wife. Plus... the complexity of me magically "appearing" in her new life and there is her living situation and her roommate. I really don't know at all, I'm at a loss. I'm guessing based on knowing her and things she has said.

Silver, I'm a compassionate person. I'm not cold or selfish. I think I have a practical human viewpoint. Every ending of a marriage is a one sided choice that affects lots of lives. Any hurt that I brought to my wife needing to change our relationship would hurt me just as badly, probably more. It would kill me. I would carry it much much longer and have far deeper scars than she ever would - trust me on that one. It wouldn't be a caviler choice for me.

January 31, 2010

Hi Pete

Thanks for the reply and I honestly do appreciate the emotions and confusion involved, and I also understand the complications that enter in when trying to do "what's right" for other people ...

I don't want to get distracted on my situation as i only used it as food for thought, but just to clarify my D was, I imagine, no easier than anyone elses. I still had to "let my family down, tell someone who imagined I would be there for the for the rest of their life that I wasn't going to and also have to deal with all the anger and guilt that all parties throw about at these times. It took 5 years of being unhappy whilst married, 1 year of drowning hurt and guilt for the deed itself, and then probably another 3 to fully come to peace with it (and that was with ME being the instigating partner !!!) .. so yes, I fully agree with your assessment that it's a difficult thing

btw - my ex wife (gosh it was SUCH a long time ago I just never use that phrase in my life nowadays) met someone within a few years , married and had two kids and last time I bumped into her we all played with all of our kids and she seemed perfectly happy ...

Back to what's facing you now, I;ve read all you wrote about how you feel and how complicated it would be IF you went to this new relationship etc and I think you've missed my point .. a safe landing is NOT particularly about material things or easy situations, a safe landing in this case might mean not being alone (especially if being alone means facing up to certain things) ...

It kinda still seems that the real issue is you don't know if this new woman needs you or not. BUT if she did, you'd probably go to her ...

Is that correct???

On another tac, (and I'll go easy as I might be WELL off course with this one... ) it kinda reads like you're saying that this other woman needs rescueing from her own unhappiness/life???

Also, you seem to be saying that your wife needs you to stay married to her in order to make her life better????

LIke I said, maybe that's way off tac, if so, just ignore it, if not, then I can see from your reply you're a deep thinking guy so it might be worth considering what this means for you ....????

Just a thought ....????

Be well

Chris

-

February 2, 2010

It kinda still seems that the real issue is you don't know if this new woman needs you or not. BUT if she did, you'd probably go to her ...

Is that correct???

On another tac, (and I'll go easy as I might be WELL off course with this one... ) it kinda reads like you're saying that this other woman needs rescueing from her own unhappiness/life???

Also, you seem to be saying that your wife needs you to stay married to her in order to make her life better????

LIke I said, maybe that's way off tac, if so, just ignore it, if not, then I can see from your reply you're a deep thinking guy so it might be worth considering what this means for you ....????

-

Hi Chris,

Thanks for your comments

um yeah if she asked me right now I would run to her without blinking and deal with mess after. I'm getting stronger but at the moment my emotions are still in control enough to pull me in that direction. We'll see how I feel in another week.

On the rescuing part - no actually I'm very sure she will be fine. She has marched through more difficult times in her life than anyone else I've ever known. She has her hands full right now, but she is strong as hell. I admire her more than I can say for all the adversity she has taken on in her life and how well she has navigated it. She has raised her kid's wonderfully against all odds and they will act a support network for her emotionally (most of her old support network was me) and anything else she will take in stride. She truly is a beautiful person on every level - the most beautiful I know.

I think it's really me just being selfish, needing and wanting to be a part of her life - I'm still hanging on to how we both have always believed and talked about it since I was 17. All of those feelings have never gone away. I think she and I both had felt cheated by life a little bit. When we were younger we had so much of our lives in front of us. Now I'm old enough that I think the window has slipped away.

Again, I think it's me being selfish and scared that she will or has found herself on a path away from me and that I've lost her again to life twists for the 3rd time, when I swore to both her and myself that I wouldn't let that happen again no matter what. I don't know. I honestly do just really want her to be happy but I'm being selfish too.

It really is just the point that this one person has touched my life, my heart, and my soul like no one else ever has and I guess I'm not at peace with letting go of what could or should have been.

On the last point. I don't know if my wife would be happier without me. I'm not positive I would be happier without her either. We have both let the other down at times but she and I have never been really unhappy together. I don't know. We love the other but I guess its really just more kind of apathetic. I guess I'm trying to figure that and me out right now. Looks like we might be heading towards separation atm.

I didn't mean to dwell on your situation. Thanks for all your insight and kind words, I really do appreciate it.

February 2, 2010

Pete and Silverplanets......I just wanted to say thank you for the your insightful poignant posts from the mans point of view. I quoted the things that really stuck out for me in each of your posts.

One reason that it means so much to me is that the man I'm with is going through a messy hard divorce and your posts helped me to see some of what he is dealing with. A little of my backstory. He and I fell in love when he was separated from the stbxw the first time, he went back to the marriage and he and I kept on seeing each other for about a year and a half. I walked away for all the obvious usual reasons, too painful, not knowing when it was going to end. Fast forward to a few years later and after very limited casual contact with him, he is separated for almost a year and I'm out of a bad relationship that I got into and we start again. I won't lie and say it's all been blissful, it's been very hard and the hard part is not behind us yet as the divorce has been delayed time after time because they can't agree on settling things. Even though I was not the reason he left the marriage, he sometimes is struggling with the guilt and the pain of it all. He tends to go through periods when it bothers him more than other times and during those times when it does, I feel like he is shutting me out.

Thanks for giving me this insight into a man's feelings.

Hi BB,

Well, I can tell you for sure that for me guilt is one of those things that I have to work out myself and it's not really something that you want to share openly.

When my wife found out about my OW and me, the guilt I carried was huge. I had planned to leave my wife (we were already rocky) but having to "make it right" and not leaving on those terms is what pulled me back into the marriage. Looking back it was the wrong reason and the wrong choice but it made sense to me at the time. Going that route probably hurt all three of us in the long run.

My OW and I were no contact for about a month before she was really falling apart and asked for contact of some type. She was really a major mess. I felt both huge guilt for what I was putting her though and guilt for communicating with her again. I found myself being very reclusive which made both my wife and my OW kind of insecure - especially given how weak we all were. My OW and I never had any secrets or reservations about sharing anything so for me to withdraw emotionally even a little bit from her really really had her off balance. She didn't know what to do with that at all. It also made her feel really bad about what her being in my life was doing to me. She tried to take on some of that guilt and that was worse.

Anyway, guilt is our mind's way of reminding us when we hurt someone who may not deserve it. I don't think openly sharing about it actually helps you get through the process any quicker.

I think it's pretty common for men to turn inward to get though it. Since you are kind of in the middle, it makes it hard for you to comfort him about it. If it were me I would avoid bringing attention to how it makes you feel and definately don't take it on yourself. Having patience and giving him his space is probably your best strategy. Also, if you trust him, make sure he knows how much you personally trust him in your relationship, that isn't something that is easy to communicate but it will help him get over it more than anything.

I would take comfort in realizing that if he is really working through enough guilt that it is outwardly showing, you have probably found yourself a good man who is not selfish and feels very accountable for his actions. Him feeling guilty isn't a reflection on you and he.

February 3, 2010

My only way to reach her was an email account she wasn't really going to be checking. She changed her number. Moved in with a divorced male friend of hers and his son (in her words "as a sort of roomate situtation" for financial reasons) who I'm not sure if she was is in a relationship with (but they did sort of "family date").

It has been 5 months since she has called me on the phone (we talked daily for several hours for over 4 years) and will be 3 months since we have traded an email. She asked me 3 months ago not to come see her, that it would be emotionally too hard.

I don't know where I stand with her at all.
She never mentioned she loved me - very carefully so I think. Living with a man that I know very little about him or their relationship other than I know she trusts and respects him and she has implied that several months ago there was strictly nothing there but a friendship. (Isnt this what you and she implied to your spouses?)

The biggest thing here is to come clean to your wife so you can both work on your lives...but you dont ask about that so I'll just address the one thing that you do ask about. You dont know where you stand with OW?

How, given that she is living with another man, hasnt contacted you in 5 months, asked you to not contact her, and never once said she was in love with you....could you not know where you stand??

You DO have decisions to make...but they dont involve OW, she has made her own and they do not include you. You have closure. Closure is a painful thing, it doesnt necessarily bring relief, you cant expect it to here. But you definitely have it. What more could OW possibly do? She has gone so far as to change her accounts so that you cannot reach her. To do so would broach harassment.

You cannot make this something it is not. You are trying to use wishes to make decisions. You have to use the facts. And then, you and your wife together have to decide what to do with them.

Lost without her

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