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So, I was asked for an update..


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There really isn't that much to tell.

 

I am still involved with My MM.

 

I still have severe highs and lows from my involvement with My MM.

 

He still makes no promises to me. (That is actually something I admire about him, as warped as that may seem. At least he won't make promises that he doesn't know whether or not he is prepared to keep.)

 

He still calls me everyday, several times a day.

 

He still tells me he loves me. That he misses me when he is not here. That he wants me. And the new one that I have started hearing at random times is that he NEEDS me. *shrug* (NO, I don't believe that one for a minute, but I do find it odd that after all this time, that NEED is starting to come out...like I am a drug? Makes me believe the theory that having me in his life, makes his marriage more bearable for him.)

 

He still comes to stay over night regularly.

 

I still am not dating anyone else, however, I have let my friends know I am open to dating, and I have exchanged a few messages with someone who lives in my town and seems to be interested in getting to know me. He doesn't really interest me romantically, but I have thought about going out with him a few times just to see.. though I don't want to 'lead him on' ya know? So, I am up in the air about that.

 

I spoke with a counselor, but she just wasn't the right person for me, so I am looking for someone else. I didn't feel comfortable with her, safe in baring my soul... *shrug* I am still looking though, and hope to find someone I can connect with soon.

 

I have come to a place of 'peace' with myself. I know that I am not cut out to be OW. I know that I can not go on like this forever, but I also know that I am not ready to give up My MM right now. So, I have decided to take things with him one day at a time. Today, I am still in the affair, perhaps tomorrow I will not be, but I have decided, I will do this on MY TIME... otherwise, I am just pushing him away, only to run back with my tail between my legs when he says those words to me... I feel that my wishy-washy behaviour was actually giving him MORE power over me.

 

Now, I am in control of my side of this affair. I am not always available when he calls. I do not spend all night waiting up online for him. I do not break plans with my friends because he wants time with me. *shrug* maybe it doesn't seem like much, but for me it is a big step in the right direction.

 

Really, like I said, not much to update.

 

I still am in the affair. I still love him with all that I am. I still wish that he would leave his marriage and spend a lifetime with me. But if wishes were dishes I would have a sh*t-ton of dirty plates...

 

Que sera sera... :o

 

_____________________________________________________________

 

I am curious though, if someone would care to share their thoughts..

 

Lately he has been telling me a lot more about his family life... what I mean by that is.. he tells me more about what his 'still at home' child is doing at school/extracurricular activities. He talked to me about his Christmas.. (the toys I picked for his grandchildren were a huge hit, he wanted to make sure I knew that).. he told me about a silly little argument between he and his W (something he usually doesn't do, but he was very angry about it, disproportionately so, I thought), he told me about going to his grandchild's birthday party.. how he didn't want to be there (not because of his grandchild, but because the "rest" of the family was there).

 

I do not ask about things like that. And until the past couple of months, there was always very general information, but lately.. well, he just keeps sharing more and more, and he keeps saying things like.. "I wish (my child) could meet you, (they) would adore you as much as I do." or "I wish you could have been there with me (on Christmas Morning) so that you could see the look on (his grandchild's) face when they opened..."

 

It almost makes me feel uncomfortable. I don't know how to respond to comments like that. He even recently said that he wanted to take me to his house, so I could see his 'man-room' as he recently painted it. Obviously, that is not an option, so he takes pictures, of the kid, grandkids, house etc, and shows them to me.

 

I love that he wants to share these things with me, but it hurts, to know that I am not REALLY sharing those things with him.. does that make sense?

 

I am just wondering why he would say and do things like that? Any insights from the MM's in the group?

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Here I was hoping to read you are XX days/weeks in NC and doing okay.

 

I can tell you, as my friend, I wish you weren't so engrossed with him and his life. I can tell you that I don't see you ever demanding more, I don't ever not see you as the "OW".

 

You say you aren't cut out for this, but it has been 4+ years, right? You say you aren't ready for him to not be in your life. I don't honestly think you will ever be ready and that makes me sad for you BECAUSE I know you want more. I know you aren't content to be his mistress like others are content to be that. I know you don't have a burning desire to share your life with him on a part-time schedule. I know you want the WHOLE man, not just the bits and pieces (even if they are long talks, multiple times a day, sleep overs, etc). You want him clothes hanging next to yours, his socks and your socks mingling.

 

I wish for you strength and happiness. ((hugs to you FA))

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moaningmyrtle

You may not like what I have to say as a BW who noticed something similar in the e-mails my WH sent to his OW. I hope some MM reply to you who may give you a different perspective.

 

I noticed that during my H's affair, and also in the time before d-day when he was trying to re-establish the A, that he was telling her about his everyday life. He would often write things like "we went to a baseball match" or soccer, or a family member's home or whatever. Sometimes it would be a bit vague as to whether the "we" included me, or just our children. This intensified during the last year of the A, which was a time when the OW tried to end it several times and he knew she was moving away from him.

 

A few weeks before d-day he asked her out to an evening meal and she accepted and then he canceled because "Myrtle is studying for her final law exams". He already knew he couldn't go to dinner with her and that it would have been their first ever evening meal date apart from an interstate conference they'd been to together a few years earlier.

 

I asked him about this and he shamefacedly admitted that it was a form of "grooming" of her. He needed her to realise that his family came first. He had never pretended to her that he would leave and be with her but at the same time he felt that she needed to believe this might happen one day. He agreed that it was an attempt to make her understand that he had a life that he enjoyed and wanted outside the affair, and to make her feel included without actually including her.

 

He was totally manipulating her as he was me - it was appalling behaviour that I had never thought he was capable of and I doubt she did either given the man he was.

 

FallenAngel, I sometimes wonder if your MM is a bit like my husband.

 

I do not usually come onto this forum, all guns blazing telling OW they must end it with their MM. From your various posts however I feel that the affair is slowly crushing you. Some OW such as Jennie are reasonably content to enjoy the journey and "live in hope" that there is a successful outcome for her. I do not sense this about you and hope that you keep evaluating the situation and find strength to continue/do with whatever it is you choose.

 

I do think people in long term relationships should have love/passion/intimacy and if a married person is going to get that by leaving his marriage then that is what they should do. My belief is that MM need to be "encouraged" to choose. Much as it goes against the grain for me to say this - as if we are a selection of women paraded before him in some beauty pageant or an 18th century deb ball (does anyone else read Jane Austen?) - but the alternative - ie staying and continuing the A is just soul destroying for both women.

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I spoke with a counselor, but she just wasn't the right person for me, so I am looking for someone else. I didn't feel comfortable with her, safe in baring my soul... *shrug* I am still looking though, and hope to find someone I can connect with soon.

In any type of counselling, a connection and trust with the T is a MUST. When I was at my worst, suffering from anxiety and panic attacks, I saw 2 or 3 different T's before I found someone amazing and wonderful. She was my life saviour! DOn't give up, you will find that person who will 'get' you and help you through this!

 

In the meantime, rely less on MM, since you don't want to end it, take it for what it is, nothing more, nothing less. Just don't spend 24/7 waiting, thinking of him, wishing, hoping.. GO ON with your regular life, your friends, family. He doesn't have to be a part of your daily life. Maybe it's time to try to not talk to him every single day, so many times.. Just for your own sake, that's all.

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I guess I am an optimist.

I see all the little steps that you are taking.

Not being so available, not standing up your friends(! - don't do that! :laugh:)

and going to and finding a counselor that will work for you. That you even tried is a great step.

Thinking about dating. Talking to friends about dating.

 

One of the steps seems to be seeing his story for what it is. You are looking at it a little more objectively.

 

I do not get from your posting that he wants to have an actual marriage with you. Right now you both get to have a fantasy world - especially him - and he likes to live in it from time to time. When you bug him he can retreat into his "responsibilities". When you suit him he can be there with you.

 

 

If you were both to get married it would not be bourbon and negligee all the time. It would also be a lot of dirty socks, boring talk, drudgery, farts, family dynamics, sickness, annoying habits and so forth.

 

He's already married so he is aware of this. I think that he probably realizes on some level that if he were to marry you his personality failings would likely make his marriage to you very like his marriage to his current wife. It is very hard to be married in and out day after day and maintain that sexual tension. I do not see why he would want to throw that away. I really cannot see how marrying you would improve his life.

 

 

Right now you both have the sexual tension, the excitement, the drama and all the icing of a relationship. However YOU want cake. He has cake. He just wants the extra icing to make his life sweeter.

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Number one-If you were both to get married it would not be bourbon and negligee all the time. It would also be a lot of dirty socks, boring talk, drudgery, farts, family dynamics, sickness, annoying habits and so forth.

 

Number two-He's already married so he is aware of this. I think that he probably realizes on some level that if he were to marry you his personality failings would likely make his marriage to you very like his marriage to his current wife. It is very hard to be married in and out day after day and maintain that sexual tension. I do not see why he would want to throw that away.Number three- I really cannot see how marrying you would improve his life.

 

1.) Wow, cause that is very much a description of our affair. LMAO! (seriously :o )

 

2.) Sexual tension? Trust that we are NOT about the sex. In fact, sex is like the last on the list of priorities between My MM and I. And while I have resumed the physical aspect of our affair, there were several months in which I did not engage in sexual activity with him, and during that time, our relationship did not change, other than that we were no longer having sex. He still came and spent the night just as often, he still called all the time, he never pulled back from me at all because I cut the sex off. *shrug* Perhaps sex is the basis of many an affair, but that is not the case in ours.

 

3.) Would you like another knife to jab into my eye to match the one in my heart? I guess that I will take that with a grain of salt considering that you do not know the wonderful, amazing, caring, loving, tender, generous, friendly, loveable person that I am.. but I can assure you, that I enhance his life everyday.. But apparently in your eyes, I am no great loss.. so be it!

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3.) Would you like another knife to jab into my eye to match the one in my heart? I guess that I will take that with a grain of salt considering that you do not know the wonderful, amazing, caring, loving, tender, generous, friendly, loveable person that I am.. but I can assure you, that I enhance his life everyday.. But apparently in your eyes, I am no great loss.. so be it!

 

No no no Sweetie. You completely misunderstand me.

He ALREADY has you. You are already enhancing HIS life. He doesn't feel any real need to divorce his wife and marry you. It wouldn't really improve his life comparative to the financial/domestic upset of divorce to divorce his wife so he gets a few more hours in his week with you. Right now he gets to spend the best of himself with you.

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3.) Would you like another knife to jab into my eye to match the one in my heart? I guess that I will take that with a grain of salt considering that you do not know the wonderful, amazing, caring, loving, tender, generous, friendly, loveable person that I am.. but I can assure you, that I enhance his life everyday.. But apparently in your eyes, I am no great loss.. so be it!

 

Wow. Fallen. This is what we mean by taking offense when none is intended.

 

Holding-On would NEVER, IMO, jab you. I think she (?) was just posting what she felt HE was doing. Not as an insult.

 

I just wanted to agree with her on that. I think she is in an open relationship as it is and isn't into judging anyone for their choices.

 

Holding, I hope I didn't over step my bounds in saying the above. I didn't think you were being negative at all.

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I understand this rollercoaster ride and it's hard to let go of a man you love. I guess for me after spending nearly 5 yrs with him, I had had enough. By then, I concluded that he had written me off, for whatever reason, and that we would never be together. I'm an optimist so my hope died hard. But it did die. And I realized that I had spent way too much of my life on a relationship that was going nowhere. When I ended it with him, I told him I loved him and he told me he loved me. It was the first time he had said that to me. But it was sad because it meant very little to me by then. I felt it was a new ploy to get me to change my mind.

 

xMM always shared his personal life with me - little things he and his kids did, always phrasing things in such a way that he rarely mentioned his wife. I loved his kids and he loved mine. I feel that he was possibly doing what moaningmyrtle talked about - making sure I understood my place. The more I thought about it, the less special I felt. I do know what you're feeling but the years can tick away and, before you know it, you can turn around and find that you have let a lot of them slip away on someone who didn't see you worthy enough to change his life for. That's just the way I started to see things and once that happened, there were no words he could utter to bring me back.

 

But, as you said, you've gotta do it in your own time. I guess what I'm trying to say is that this relationship is not what you think it is. I'm processing that part of it still; that there are many other things in his life that meant more to him than I did. The love just wasn't enough. I guess I just finally woke up and realized that I deserved better.

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GreenEyedLady

((FALLEN ANGEL))

 

I remember coming here and hearing so many comments that hurt me to my very core. The comments that were so insulting to my lover, to his character, to his very soul. A man that I loved so deeply that I had forsaken my own beliefs to simply be with him.

 

I know how it is to have a good day, to find hope in today and the future and to have it dashed away by the comments of a flippant poster, not knowing or realizing that sometimes it takes all that we have to make it through the day without feeling sad.

 

Type tends to bite sometimes and come out harsher than one might mean it to come out.

 

I understand your hurt.

 

You are on your own journey, on your own timeline. You are the one who controls your destiny. You alone know your heart and you know your MM for who he lets you know.

 

I do not pretend to know if your R will work out. Sometimes they don't and much to the chagrin of many posters, they do.

 

Everyone here does have the same ending for you: that you find happiness NO MATTER WHAT. Keep your eyes on that prize, FA. For that is what is important. Do what makes you happy. Be someone who can be happy with the choices they have made in life.

 

What will be, will be.

 

(((HUGS)))

 

GEL

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I am curious though, if someone would care to share their thoughts..

 

Lately he has been telling me a lot more about his family life... what I mean by that is.. he tells me more about what his 'still at home' child is doing at school/extracurricular activities. He talked to me about his Christmas.. (the toys I picked for his grandchildren were a huge hit, he wanted to make sure I knew that).. he told me about a silly little argument between he and his W (something he usually doesn't do, but he was very angry about it, disproportionately so, I thought), he told me about going to his grandchild's birthday party.. how he didn't want to be there (not because of his grandchild, but because the "rest" of the family was there).

 

I do not ask about things like that. And until the past couple of months, there was always very general information, but lately.. well, he just keeps sharing more and more, and he keeps saying things like.. "I wish (my child) could meet you, (they) would adore you as much as I do." or "I wish you could have been there with me (on Christmas Morning) so that you could see the look on (his grandchild's) face when they opened..."

 

It almost makes me feel uncomfortable. I don't know how to respond to comments like that. He even recently said that he wanted to take me to his house, so I could see his 'man-room' as he recently painted it. Obviously, that is not an option, so he takes pictures, of the kid, grandkids, house etc, and shows them to me.

 

I love that he wants to share these things with me, but it hurts, to know that I am not REALLY sharing those things with him.. does that make sense?

 

I am just wondering why he would say and do things like that? Any insights from the MM's in the group?

 

The bolded line is what I am commenting on, and your conflicted feelings about it.

 

To me, it sounds like he is in full-on fantasy mode. He is thinking out loud, he would NEVER actually do those things. God forbid, his family actually find out the true nature of his R with you! He knows that "adoration" would be very short lived.

 

You are feeling uncomfortable, IMO, because you don't quite believe him and yet want to share in his joy - the joy he is depicting. Like you said, you love that he wants to share those things with you, but know that he can't - so why is he saying these things, you are left wondering.

 

You mention that it hurts to know that you aren't "REALLY" sharing those things with him. Does it make the pictures less real to you? Are you starting to feel like you are on the outside of his life peeking in? On the one hand, showing you pictures sounds sweet. But given that he can never openly show you that part of his life without serious repercussions, it would make me angry where I in your shoes.

 

(Sorry for rambling. Its late here.)

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moaningmyrtle

I'm a bit puzzled by something Fallen Angel. I did ask you in another thread (I think) but I can't find it now so I'll ask it again here.

 

You have alluded several times to the fact that your MM's wife knows of your affair because your exH told her about it. You have also mentioned that there is ample evidence of it in phone bills etc. You seem to think she is in total denial about it.

 

I just wondered what your MM told her about it? Did he confirm that he had an A with you and tell her it was continuing? Or did he confirm the A but tell her it was over? Or did he deny any A at all? Has he told you she never asked him about it, and if so do you believe him? Or something else I haven't thought of.

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I'm a bit puzzled by something Fallen Angel. I did ask you in another thread (I think) but I can't find it now so I'll ask it again here.

 

You have alluded several times to the fact that your MM's wife knows of your affair because your exH told her about it. You have also mentioned that there is ample evidence of it in phone bills etc. You seem to think she is in total denial about it.

 

I just wondered what your MM told her about it? Did he confirm that he had an A with you and tell her it was continuing? Or did he confirm the A but tell her it was over? Or did he deny any A at all? Has he told you she never asked him about it, and if so do you believe him? Or something else I haven't thought of.

 

He confirmed the A. He told her he didn't intend it to happen, he told her we were friends, and that he fell in love with me. Then he told her it was over.

 

So, I am sure I will hear, that if he told her that it is over, that she thinks it is over. But none of us are stupid enough to buy that... I have been a BW too, so I know that just because they say it is over, does not mean you take their word for it. Especially when there is evidence, as in the phone bills, that speak to the contrary.

 

Would you believe your H, if he told you he had an affair, and that while it was unintentional, he had fallen in love with someone else, but that because you found out he ended it? I don't think there is a woman alive who would just say "Okay, Honey, as long as you say it is over, i believe you.. and oh, all those phone calls you still make to her phone number at all hours of the day and night, every day and night, except the nights when you are in her town, well, obviously, they mean nothing..." :rolleyes:

 

We are not talking about some poor, stupid woman, who doesn't know any better... we are talking about a woman with several degrees and a good career, who has spent a large portion of their marriage alone while he was deployed and/or stationed overseas in the military. She is not stupid, and she is not blind, and no, you can not convince me that she 'just doesn't know'// the proof of me is evident in his actions.

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moaningmyrtle
He confirmed the A. He told her he didn't intend it to happen, he told her we were friends, and that he fell in love with me. Then he told her it was over.

 

So, I am sure I will hear, that if he told her that it is over, that she thinks it is over. But none of us are stupid enough to buy that... I have been a BW too, so I know that just because they say it is over, does not mean you take their word for it. Especially when there is evidence, as in the phone bills, that speak to the contrary.

 

Would you believe your H, if he told you he had an affair, and that while it was unintentional, he had fallen in love with someone else, but that because you found out he ended it? I don't think there is a woman alive who would just say "Okay, Honey, as long as you say it is over, i believe you.. and oh, all those phone calls you still make to her phone number at all hours of the day and night, every day and night, except the nights when you are in her town, well, obviously, they mean nothing..." :rolleyes:

 

We are not talking about some poor, stupid woman, who doesn't know any better... we are talking about a woman with several degrees and a good career, who has spent a large portion of their marriage alone while he was deployed and/or stationed overseas in the military. She is not stupid, and she is not blind, and no, you can not convince me that she 'just doesn't know'// the proof of me is evident in his actions.

 

You're not my H's OW by any chance are you? :confused:

 

No seriously this is what happened to me. My H definitely was in love with the OW and he told me it would be over from d-day. Admittedly I have found no evidence of repeated and continuous calls to her but the fact of the matter is he has a work e-mail, a work phone and a work supplied mobile phone none of which I have access to. What's more I'm almost embarrassed to say that I believe him despite the fact that some contact continued after d-day, and I found this out much later.

 

I also have university qualifications as both an accountant and (nearly) a lawyer.

 

You must consider me and women like me so very stupid. In my more miserable moments I feel that way too. :o

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You're not my H's OW by any chance are you? :confused:

 

No seriously this is what happened to me. My H definitely was in love with the OW and he told me it would be over from d-day. Admittedly I have found no evidence of repeated and continuous calls to her but the fact of the matter is he has a work e-mail, a work phone and a work supplied mobile phone none of which I have access to. What's more I'm almost embarrassed to say that I believe him despite the fact that some contact continued after d-day, and I found this out much later.

 

I also have university qualifications as both an accountant and (nearly) a lawyer.

 

You must consider me and women like me so very stupid. In my more miserable moments I feel that way too. :o

 

It is not my place to say that you should not believe him. *shrug* only you can decide that.

 

In the beginning of our affair we used his work-supplied cell phone for the majority of our communication, but when we exceeded his alloted work phone minutes by several hundred dollars worth per month for a few months, he got chastised for it. He paid the bill, and they let us continue to use it, as long as he paid the difference. Then the accountant at work told him that they could no longer do that, as it was making proper book-keeping more difficult, requiring several extra forms per month. So he started using his personal cell. This was before I knew he was still married, so I didn't think of the consequences of all of our talk time.

 

After D-day I asked him about all of our minutes, and how he handled that.. at that time, he said it wasn't an issue as she didn't seem to notice.. but I waited daily for a call from her. I thought surely that she would call me.. I know I would have called if I had been in her shoes.

 

A few months after D-day they had the first argument about the phone bill. He had been travelling out of state almost the entire month, and was racking up several hours a day on the phone with me (sometimes as much as five or six hours). Apparently the phones were on some sort of 'shared minutes plan' and so he had used up EVERYONE's minutes within just a few days and the rest of the month they all (MM, W, and child) were billing minutes. Apparently the bill was horrific, and sparked a big argument. He told her at that time to add my number to the calling plan (circle, friends and family, whatever it is called) so that phone calls to/from my number were free.

 

She did it, but two months later removed my number from the calling plan. And when the bill came in, they had another blow up about it. He told her to put the number back on the plan, and it wouldn't be an issue, but she hasn't apparently. *shrug* The only reason I can think of for this is that she wants to be able to see the calls back and forth between our phones, and when I was 'in the circle' the calls weren't listed on the bill??? :confused:

 

After awhile, she just quit saying anything about the bill, or if she still does, he has quit telling me about it. But he never slows down the frequency or duration of his calls to me, in fact last night, he was in a motel room, and called me to 'watch tv' with me for an hour. That is after the 'talking' we had done off and on already during the evening. We literally spent an hour, watching the same television show, occasionally laughing about something, and chit chatting during the commercials. *shrug* I am glad I don't pay the bill!!! (He pays my bill as well, that is the one bill I allow him to take care of for me. I used to not let him, but he said that paying it is a selfish act on his part, he pays it so that he gets the pleasure of my company.) :o

 

My point is, he has done nothing to hide our phone contact from her, and it has been a point of contention between them, so I just can not imagine who she could convince herself he is talking to other than me? I mean, he is either still having an affair with a woman, or he is talking to a man.. and if he is talking to a man THAT MUCH, it would be because he is having an affair with the man.. NO ONE talks to someone THAT much, unless there is SOMETHING going on, ya know?

 

 

***LMAO*** as to me being your H's OW. No worries there, she is not an accountant or a lawyer. And I am sure that you would recognize your own husband in my picture. ;)

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moaningmyrtle
It is not my place to say that you should not believe him. *shrug* only you can decide that.

 

In the beginning of our affair we used his work-supplied cell phone for the majority of our communication, but when we exceeded his alloted work phone minutes by several hundred dollars worth per month for a few months, he got chastised for it. He paid the bill, and they let us continue to use it, as long as he paid the difference. Then the accountant at work told him that they could no longer do that, as it was making proper book-keeping more difficult, requiring several extra forms per month. So he started using his personal cell. This was before I knew he was still married, so I didn't think of the consequences of all of our talk time.

 

After D-day I asked him about all of our minutes, and how he handled that.. at that time, he said it wasn't an issue as she didn't seem to notice.. but I waited daily for a call from her. I thought surely that she would call me.. I know I would have called if I had been in her shoes.

 

A few months after D-day they had the first argument about the phone bill. He had been travelling out of state almost the entire month, and was racking up several hours a day on the phone with me (sometimes as much as five or six hours). Apparently the phones were on some sort of 'shared minutes plan' and so he had used up EVERYONE's minutes within just a few days and the rest of the month they all (MM, W, and child) were billing minutes. Apparently the bill was horrific, and sparked a big argument. He told her at that time to add my number to the calling plan (circle, friends and family, whatever it is called) so that phone calls to/from my number were free.

 

She did it, but two months later removed my number from the calling plan. And when the bill came in, they had another blow up about it. He told her to put the number back on the plan, and it wouldn't be an issue, but she hasn't apparently. *shrug* The only reason I can think of for this is that she wants to be able to see the calls back and forth between our phones, and when I was 'in the circle' the calls weren't listed on the bill??? :confused:

 

After awhile, she just quit saying anything about the bill, or if she still does, he has quit telling me about it. But he never slows down the frequency or duration of his calls to me, in fact last night, he was in a motel room, and called me to 'watch tv' with me for an hour. That is after the 'talking' we had done off and on already during the evening. We literally spent an hour, watching the same television show, occasionally laughing about something, and chit chatting during the commercials. *shrug* I am glad I don't pay the bill!!! (He pays my bill as well, that is the one bill I allow him to take care of for me. I used to not let him, but he said that paying it is a selfish act on his part, he pays it so that he gets the pleasure of my company.) :o

 

My point is, he has done nothing to hide our phone contact from her, and it has been a point of contention between them, so I just can not imagine who she could convince herself he is talking to other than me? I mean, he is either still having an affair with a woman, or he is talking to a man.. and if he is talking to a man THAT MUCH, it would be because he is having an affair with the man.. NO ONE talks to someone THAT much, unless there is SOMETHING going on, ya know?

 

 

***LMAO*** as to me being your H's OW. No worries there, she is not an accountant or a lawyer. And I am sure that you would recognize your own husband in my picture. ;)

 

I can't explain - it's puzzling. You say she's stopped asking about it, so that must mean she used to ask about it. What did he say? Maybe he reassured her in some way and she believed him.

 

The desire to believe is very strong. Just see the number of posts from OW who clearly believe that the MM does not lie to them or at least not very much. Also the number of BW who believe when they are told the A is over. Maybe it's almost like a "need" in humans to be able to fully trust our partners.

 

Unfortunately if it is a "need" then it's one that is easily exploited and abused.

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I can't explain - it's puzzling. You say she's stopped asking about it, so that must mean she used to ask about it. What did he say? Maybe he reassured her in some way and she believed him.

 

The desire to believe is very strong. Just see the number of posts from OW who clearly believe that the MM does not lie to them or at least not very much. Also the number of BW who believe when they are told the A is over. Maybe it's almost like a "need" in humans to be able to fully trust our partners.

 

Unfortunately if it is a "need" then it's one that is easily exploited and abused.

 

I know that when she first asked about my number, he told her it was the number belonging to a particular friend he worked with. But, that friend always calls on his work phone, since they worked together.. And since they often shared motel rooms (he and the guy he worked with) and the phone calls often took place while the two men were on the same job site, in the same room, it just doesn't make any sense.

 

Like I said.. if MY HUSBAND told me that he spent several hours everyday ON THE PHONE with his buddy that he worked with almost daily, and shared motel rooms with, and many of those phone calls were placed in the middle of the night, I would have to either think he was lying about whose number it was, or assume he was getting some homosexual action on the down-low. I mean, really, if you saw those patterns on your husband's phone bill, would you believe for a minute that it was a work buddy? :confused::lmao:

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I must be one of the very few people who doesn't check the cell phone bill when it comes in and I guess I wonder why people don't just get unlimited minutes? I mean, why keep paying hundreds of dollars for going over the minutes? What am I missing?

 

There must be a reason he nor his wife have chosen to the marriage. She may be waiting you out, she may not care, she may just choose to turn a blind eye.

 

I mean, you stay even though you know he is married and it doesn't seem as if he is leaving. And he doesn't stop the affair so there must be reason.

 

As long as everyone is happy, *shrug* I guess things will just continue on this way. I feel bad for you and his wife...both of you deserve better. But like I said, if you all are happy, then I guess things will just carry on.

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I must be one of the very few people who doesn't check the cell phone bill when it comes in and I guess I wonder why people don't just get unlimited minutes? I mean, why keep paying hundreds of dollars for going over the minutes? What am I missing?

 

There must be a reason he nor his wife have chosen to the marriage. She may be waiting you out, she may not care, she may just choose to turn a blind eye.

 

I mean, you stay even though you know he is married and it doesn't seem as if he is leaving. And he doesn't stop the affair so there must be reason.

 

As long as everyone is happy, *shrug* I guess things will just continue on this way. I feel bad for you and his wife...both of you deserve better. But like I said, if you all are happy, then I guess things will just carry on.

 

*slap, slap, slap* OUCH!

 

You know I am not 'happy', not the way I want to be.. You know I want to be the ONLY, not the OTHER. But as long as he feels obligated, and as long as she 'turns a blind eye' and as long as I 'wait it out' you are right, it will not change. *sigh* Sometime, I don't know when, something will have to give. I foresee it being me, giving up.

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moaningmyrtle
... I mean, really, if you saw those patterns on your husband's phone bill, would you believe for a minute that it was a work buddy? :confused::lmao:

 

Firstly I probably wouldn't actually get to see them. But if I did and I asked him and he explained they were work related then yes I'd believe, because...

 

I don't want to think that he would ever hurt me that way again after all he is a decent guy at heart...

 

Slap slap ouch ouch to me too.

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FA,

 

As I asked for the update its only proper I reply.

And since you are wondering...had a sick 4 year old. I just love the sound of vomit at 3am - nothing beats waking up to that. Not.

 

I am VERY pleased you own it. Too many times the OW gets "lost" in the A. Becomes the victim and somehow NOT in control of herself or her her emotions. Its a HUGE emotional step for you to escape from that. To use your brain and not simply REACT to the kind, lovely words you WANT to hear. Its good and healthy for you to do that.

 

I know you want him to leave his W and for him to marry you.

That HOPE, however disingenuous and poisonous it is here, keeps you going.

I find it very telling that your posts are taking a subtle fatalistic view to this. I think its a good sign. Because healthy people in a good satisfying relationship DON'T foresee the end.

 

Its a path. A journey. Isn't life amazing in that, no matter how old and wise we may be, we still have SO much MORE to learn. Even about ourselves.

 

And, perhaps what is MORE amazing, is our capacity to heal. To love again. That's the path I'm on...and yeah, it's hard.

 

Why can't I, just for once, get something the easy way...like lottery numbers.

 

Keep in touch

 

(damn...I DID surprise myself)

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FA,

 

As I asked for the update its only proper I reply.

And since you are wondering...had a sick 4 year old. I just love the sound of vomit at 3am - nothing beats waking up to that. Not.

 

I am VERY pleased you own it. Too many times the OW gets "lost" in the A. Becomes the victim and somehow NOT in control of herself or her her emotions. Its a HUGE emotional step for you to escape from that. To use your brain and not simply REACT to the kind, lovely words you WANT to hear. Its good and healthy for you to do that.

 

I know you want him to leave his W and for him to marry you.

That HOPE, however disingenuous and poisonous it is here, keeps you going.

I find it very telling that your posts are taking a subtle fatalistic view to this. I think its a good sign. Because healthy people in a good satisfying relationship DON'T foresee the end.

 

Its a path. A journey. Isn't life amazing in that, no matter how old and wise we may be, we still have SO much MORE to learn. Even about ourselves.

 

And, perhaps what is MORE amazing, is our capacity to heal. To love again. That's the path I'm on...and yeah, it's hard.

 

Why can't I, just for once, get something the easy way...like lottery numbers.

 

Keep in touch

 

(damn...I DID surprise myself)

 

I just wanted to smile and wink at you, lmao, but the system told me I hadn't typed enough characters. :);)

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Fallen Angel 5 years is so long to be waiting. I have only been in this EA for just over a year and it seems way too long--It wasn't until 8 months into it that we felt the need or powerful tug to want to be together--we talk about it all the time--

You have read a few posts of mine and my predicament is more difficult since he lives overseas--

so leaving the "family" really means leaving--being a 7 hour flight away from his children.

I noticed someone asked if you talk about --or make plans to somehow eventually be together--what steps has he taken--and yes grandchildren means the kids are a lot older(unlike my MM kids who are just turned 16 and 19)

I hear about his turmoil to leave everything behind for me and he says 95% is easy its the bit with his daughter that tugs at his heart strings and is painful of course.

lets face it though we don't live within commuting time to spend time with our kids locally.

What about you--is this an option? I see Moaning Myrtles comments about knowing or wanting to believe the affair is over when evidence would indicate not and your MM's wife has her own reasons for hanging around--unlike our own for wanting to be with the MM too.

I wonder how it would be for us if we had 2 men fawning over us---might be easy for us to hang out in that field for along time.

My husband is not begging me to stay with hiim--we are moving through separating--although i do hate breaking up my family and I tend to be dragging my feet because of it--and now that all the secrets are out between us we actually live quite civilly together(and on occasion enjoy each other sexually) which i tell MM about.

I don't understand that part of me doing that other than the craving for affection(we don't share a room).

My married man says he has not had sex with his wife since Sept 11--.

I have no idea why he wouldn't tell me since i am open with him about it--does your MM stil have sex with his wife?

i hate even thinking about it--but i do--Sometimes i realize how empty that part can be and its all the other daily stuff that is more important--he says he has no trouble refusing her asking for it either(like when she put her hand on his leg on the couch one night and said she was horny--so shall we?)

I had asked how she approached it in our conversation--god why do i do that too myself??

I always seem to put myself in her shoes---would i do this?? would I be painting the dining room if I knew my husband wanted to separate and we were talking about it--would i say--I am horny--shall we if he wanted to separate?

I drive myself up a wall with thoughts--my most recent now is he is finally back working--gone now to northern Uk for possibly a month --and i said i would come to visit--initially i had no problems going to meet him the first time --and others--but now that my husband knows about us I find myself hesitant in booking--(don't want to make it obvious) also I don't want to make it easy for MM either--perhaps he should be making a few more intentional steps to leave(like sleeping on the couch) etccc before i make another visit(We have reciprocated the visits) but because he has been out of work for 4 months it made sense i come over there as job is only for one month. Hasn't been any other opportunity to go over there while he has been off work either(they only have one car which she usues for work) and no money to go and stay anywhere together. Anyways as usual i get off topic.

I just fallen angel don't want to see you waiting any longer as I do know after only a year how it eats you up.

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I love that he wants to share these things with me, but it hurts, to know that I am not REALLY sharing those things with him.. does that make sense?

 

I am just wondering why he would say and do things like that? Any insights from the MM's in the group?

 

He really DOES wish you were there to share those things with him - but by saying so, rather than making it happen, he is also taking that same fatalistic position you're taking in saying that, ultimately, it's probable that you'll get to a point of having had enough, and end it. He's saying that - while he'd love it to be that way, he acknowledges that it isn't. That he wishes things were different.

 

But wishing things were different is very different to making them different. and his wistful musings are an acknowledgment that the world he lives in is not the world he'd like to live in, but yet... that's what fate has dealt him. It's a passive stance. It's not the view of a man who, when unhappy about something, sets out to change it. (Unless, of course, he's still four and a half, emotionally, and believes that if you wish hard enough upon a star, your wish will come true....)

 

FA, I'm not questioning his love for you. But I am questioning his resolve, or his initiative, or his drive, or his passion. Yes - even his passion. The R you describe with him sounds like an old married couple. It does not sound like the kind of burning passion that fires a man to kill, or plunder, or ravage - or to leave all that he holds dear for someone that he HAS to have. And the fact that he's now saying he needs you - oy vey, I'd run a mile, TBH! Sorry, but he sounds dependent, conflict-avoiding, clingy... Mr Nice Guy whose wife keeps his balls in a jar on her desk. From what you describe, it's simply not in his nature to upset the applecart in the way it's going to take to bring about changes on the kind of scale you'd need him to make. Those very things that you love about him might ultimately be the weight that pulls your R beneath the water and slowly suffocates it. :(

 

I do hope not... but there doesn't seem much evidence to support him moving in the direction you'd want....

 

 

(((((hugs)))))

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