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Trying to reframe it


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Am committed to not letting him or the mention of him upset me. But I need to reframe my internal response to him and to other women gushing about him.

 

Went out with a colleague who started our meeting by talking about him, how much she was enjoying getting to know him (and she blushed and had that "I have a crush" look on her face) blah blah blah

 

I smiled and said yes I worked with his firm and they did a good job for my clients but hadnt seen him in ages. She said oh I think hes been xyz and how she was looking forward to getting to know him better and how helpful he has been to her (been there sweetheart; good luck...)

 

So my question is... this happens more frequently than I would like it to.

 

My reaction in the past has been:

 

1. Total embarrassment and humiliation - hes probably persuing her right now, he will be so sweet with her like he was with me, while he is being horrible to me... I was just one in a line and he will love her more than he did me... etc etc etc

 

None of that is useful. And since many of these women are married with young children, its unlikely he is sleeping with them. He is a sort of straight out of hollywood stereotype. and "iconic" crush for a lot of women just because of who he is (its kind of like having a crush on Bill Clinton -but on a MUCH smaller scale- you might and you might be flattered if he paid attention to you).

 

So here is my question - how do I reframe it so that my internal response is more useful to me:

 

1. I dont care who he is with now; he's been awful since it ended (not so great as I still care - not about the A but about how much I resent dealing with his attempts to gaslight me over the past year or so)

 

2. Who cares been there done that, he isnt going to be any different with anyone else than he was with me (but I dont really believe that nor do most OW or we wouldnt have gotten involved with a MM in the first place)

 

3. How nice he has a new crush; maybe he will be more neutral with me now. (maybe; but doesnt help really with the why did he stop being my friend if he is charming to others)

 

4. Who cares he obviously wasnt the man for me or we would be together now. The old he is no longer apart of my life but I wish him well with his...

 

I think the last one may be the best but if anyone has other suggestions would be really appreciated. I leave these meetings feeling demoralized because he is being difficult with me while he is charming the rest of the world.

 

Thanks

 

jj

 

And that look on her little face - ick. It was the same look I had when I first got involved with him. It makes me so embarrassed. But I know that lots of women have crushes on him and it doesnt mean anything.

 

That being said, knowing that I was with him and noone knew, I know that any one of them could be involved with him... and I so dont want to know. I just dont want to hear his name (but I cant say that in a business setting or I blatantly confess all just by seeming uncomfortable)

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Am committed to not letting him or the mention of him upset me. But I need to reframe my internal response to him and to other women gushing about him.

 

Went out with a colleague who started our meeting by talking about him, how much she was enjoying getting to know him (and she blushed and had that "I have a crush" look on her face) blah blah blah

 

I smiled and said yes I worked with his firm and they did a good job for my clients but hadnt seen him in ages. She said oh I think hes been xyz and how she was looking forward to getting to know him better and how helpful he has been to her (been there sweetheart; good luck...)

 

So my question is... this happens more frequently than I would like it to.

 

My reaction in the past has been:

 

1. Total embarrassment and humiliation - hes probably persuing her right now, he will be so sweet with her like he was with me, while he is being horrible to me... I was just one in a line and he will love her more than he did me... etc etc etc

 

None of that is useful. And since many of these women are married with young children, its unlikely he is sleeping with them. He is a sort of straight out of hollywood stereotype. and "iconic" crush for a lot of women just because of who he is (its kind of like having a crush on Bill Clinton -but on a MUCH smaller scale- you might and you might be flattered if he paid attention to you).

 

So here is my question - how do I reframe it so that my internal response is more useful to me:

 

1. I dont care who he is with now; he's been awful since it ended (not so great as I still care - not about the A but about how much I resent dealing with his attempts to gaslight me over the past year or so)

 

2. Who cares been there done that, he isnt going to be any different with anyone else than he was with me (but I dont really believe that nor do most OW or we wouldnt have gotten involved with a MM in the first place)

 

3. How nice he has a new crush; maybe he will be more neutral with me now. (maybe; but doesnt help really with the why did he stop being my friend if he is charming to others)

 

4. Who cares he obviously wasnt the man for me or we would be together now. The old he is no longer apart of my life but I wish him well with his...

 

I think the last one may be the best but if anyone has other suggestions would be really appreciated. I leave these meetings feeling demoralized because he is being difficult with me while he is charming the rest of the world.

 

Thanks

 

jj

 

And that look on her little face - ick. It was the same look I had when I first got involved with him. It makes me so embarrassed. But I know that lots of women have crushes on him and it doesnt mean anything.

 

That being said, knowing that I was with him and noone knew, I know that any one of them could be involved with him... and I so dont want to know. I just dont want to hear his name (but I cant say that in a business setting or I blatantly confess all just by seeming uncomfortable)

 

 

Are you talking about Tiger Woods???

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I like #4, but how about this- Feel a bit sorry for these starry eyed girls because they're about to go thru hell because he hasn't changed a bit. They haven't yet had his true icky self revealed. Be glad for yourself that it isn't you anymore.

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I like #4, but how about this- Feel a bit sorry for these starry eyed girls because they're about to go thru hell because he hasn't changed a bit. They haven't yet had his true icky self revealed. Be glad for yourself that it isn't you anymore.

 

I'd agree with this. Consider it a lucky escape. Even if things HAD "worked out" for you, this scenario may have happened with him pursuing her and you sitting at home, unaware.... You have no way of knowing, other than knowing that things didn't work out between you FOR A REASON.

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Is there any way to get away from both of them? Or change the subject when she talks about him? I've had this happen with an EA years ago, my BF then developed a crush & wouldn't stop talking about him....after I'd severed ties. It was actually pathetic on her part, he didn't even know her name. When I asked he not to mention him, she mentioned him even more. This was years ago, and of the 2 of them, he's the one I consider the closer friend.

 

You might not think anyone knows (because you haven't told anyone), but people probably do. She might just be fishing, women can be awful. I'd stay away from her!!

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Thanks.

 

Stamp - he WISHES he were Tiger Woods;) (oh to be a young superrich athlete with all the stamina that goes with it... dam* I wish hed been Tiger Woods:p )

 

Broken and OWoman - yes that is true. Realistically I know that he has learned nothing (or he would be able to deal with me in that nice way that ex lovers do - warm, kind, fond and not yanking your chain every chance they get).

 

Heather - cant not deal with this woman - and there are SO many it would mean not dealing with too many people.

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OH JJ...I feel for you.

 

My concern is that it STILL affects you. Still an open wound...I can't guess HOW bad a wound but a wound it is.

 

I personally HATE the word closure. Its as elusive and ephermal as "tomorrow"...it never really sems to arrive. Sigh...BUT...what about you? Your closure. Your ability to move beyond it.

 

I sense a bit of an ego hit...a let down...almost denigration at his wanton pursuits. As if it pollutes "what could have been". Taints YOU in some manner. Reduces or lessens YOU.

 

It doesn't.

 

I would hope you can get to a place where his actions no longer affect you. It really doesnt matter who or what he does or pursues.

 

Time to look a little deeper. Why does this bother you? Why do you NEED a coping mechanism?

 

Still holding on to it. Somewhere...to some degree...it still has power over you. Find a way to take that control back.

 

(use this new girl as an impetus)

 

You'll get there. The day will come where it simply deons't matter.

 

(hug) (ahem, a freakin' rare is that from me huh) :)

 

JW

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If you could somehow think of his "prowling ways" as a pathetic attempt to find something that he will never ever find because nothing is ever enough.

 

In some way you can still be disgusted and feel sorry for him. Then of course, there is the fact that you are armed with such a wealth of personal information. You know "who" the man is under all the charm and looks. So pity to the next and the next.....

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Thanks JW. I really appreciate it and a hug right back at you! :) You nailed it.

 

Somehow it feels like it diminishes me. Now logically it cant can it. Its all ego. So what. So I was one of a number of affairs/flirtations what have you. Its not like he was my first... my one and only.

 

I guess it just hurts to see someone I loved so much being so nice to everyone else while he is hateful to me. It was all such a violation of everything I believe to be true about the world, that I was only able to make sense of it while we were on good terms. The idea that I went against everything I believe in and yet almost nothing good survived between us (on any level) while he goes on charming his way around town gets to me.

 

I hope some day it doesnt.

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JJ,

 

I remember several yrs back, my ex-H calling me right after I had my gall bladder out. He calls me from a houseboat, he's relaxing having a nice drink.

Oh he was sure to give me the details. Anyway, his tone was one of anger and even as doped up as I was I picked up on that immediatly.

 

I wondered why he even bothered to call. Thinking about it though I quicly realised, he didn't want me to think that he cared. So he masked his actual concern with a hateful tone. how silly is that?

 

Maybe he was afraid I'd take his concern and run with it. I dunno...

 

Maybe the MM has to mask his feelings and could be some feeling of rejection , because things didn't go the way he'd have liked. I dunno.

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Hugs, jj.

It was the same look I had when I first got involved with him. It makes me so embarrassed.

A totally different reframe would be something that is more honest to your current thoughts and feelings -- to embrace all of 'you' rather than try to reject the bits that can still cause embarrassed or hurt feelings; and instead of affirming something that your subconscious is not going to easily accept.

 

I'm thinking along the lines of: "OMG! How embarrassing that I probably looked exactly like that at some point in the past. Thank God I'm not there anymore. I kinda feel sorry for her and, concurrently, even though I don't WANT it to, it nonetheless niggles me that she may be his new 'other woman'. Oh well. I know it's gonna stop bugging me at some point in my life. Can't wait till I get there, that's fersure.

"Now...how the hell can I change the direction of this conversation and get this effin' meeting started???"

 

It still bothers you, so there's a part that still cares. Trying to tell yourself that you don't isn't going to be effective because your subconscious is smarter than that; it knows the deeper truth and will not accept affirmations ("suggestions" in hypnosis) that it knows to be untruths or half-truths.

 

Hugs.

Edited by Ronni_W
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I guess it just hurts to see someone I loved so much being so nice to everyone else while he is hateful to me. It was all such a violation of everything I believe to be true about the world, that I was only able to make sense of it while we were on good terms. The idea that I went against everything I believe in and yet almost nothing good survived between us (on any level) while he goes on charming his way around town gets to me.

 

You're angry. Angry YOU suffer and HE does not.

It seems so unfair. So unjust. So WRONG.

 

And it gnaws at you. It hurts. How can the world be like this? Is ANYTHING we believe true? Does good triumph over evil?

 

Yes Virginia, there is a Santa Claus.

 

What you don't see is HIS pain. And its a never ending ache he cannot fathom. I can see it. Its there in HIS actions.

 

You see a man cavorting around without a care in the world. And in this, you see an insult against you, what you "had" and what you believe in.

 

You're wrong.

 

Because what I see is a very insecure, sad person who CANNOT be happy. Always something new. Always something "else". NEVER SATISFIED with what he has. How sad a life that must be...always chasing the ever elusive "better" or "more". Oh...he may not think it...he just ACTS it. He's insecure. He's indecisive. What he has is NOT as good as another. Always second place. Never "good" enough.

 

It just seems so sad to me that he will forever chase and never achieve. He'll never be happy. He'll never be at peace. He'll never be secure. Always something will be missing - and its always on the other side of the fence.

 

Its not about YOU. See the difference. Because you are secure, it was real to you. Because you are at peace, it was real. Because you are happy, it was real. But NOT for him - always chasing, always competing...never knowing WHAT love, peace, security and happiness is. His days are an illusion chasing a ghost.

 

You'll heal. I did.

(I sure hope my xW does...she can STILL drive my crazy with her games...egads).

 

JW

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Thanks JW. I think that is true. And each time he tries to reignite the connection it just angers me because lets face it, if he REALLY wanted me in a real way (and not in whatever way it suited him and his W to slot me into his life) we would not be having this conversation.

 

Seems to me that maybe he and his W have an ideal marriage. They have learned over many years to coexist and to tolerate each others' foibles. They outsource the search for the intimacy they dont have (im convinced they both do it) and they keep the life they have going. Fine for them but its not my job to play that game anymore even on a platonic basis.

 

Im also angry at myself that after all this time, he still gets to me. Angry when I see him praised in the press and think you SOB, I was (even long after the A ended) of great support to you and you do nothing but give me grief in return. The support has stopped now but yes I am angry. and its not useful. And its not useful to say anything to him. He will just twist it around.

 

And worst of all I know that deep down, if I didnt still remember the good times, I wouldnt care. I would just dismiss him as one more arrogant idiot to contend with. I wish I could just forget all of it, erase the tape.

 

And it infuriates me that I havent even seen him in ages and yet he STILL manages to annoy me. Again, angry at me not him. I think I need to take up boxing or something or punch a punching bag and pretend its his head.

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Pity. Works every time. Pity her for her delusions; pity him for his pathetic need to be worshipped.

 

Rejoice that you see things so much more clearly and don't have that albatross hanging around your neck anymore.

 

Too bad, so sad for them! Yay for you! :bunny:

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True true - I do see it more clearly now. I cant imagine what I was thinking. I got in way way over my head in a situation that I had no business being involved in. Whatever game he is playing, I wasnt sophisticated enough to understand the rules

 

I made a huge mistake and now I am paying for it.

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the co-worker needs an acknowledgement from you - then set the boundary for her.

 

maybe a response such as this?

 

"thanks for telling me, now let's stick strictly to business."

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I did that. I said something nice about his company and moved on she went back to it I said I hadnt seen him in awhile. I guess next time I just say acknowledge and change the subject - (bt it was tough she was gushing and gushing I didnt have a chance to say much until she had gotten through her babbling about him).

 

And since he is a colleague, its difficult to say I dont want to hear because she is giving me industry news by telling me about who she does business with... and it would be suspicious to shut that down. But will try harder next time.

 

In the meantime to the extent possible, I can decline invitations where he will be present (that has been a total bloodbath with him making conversation that is disadvantageous to me and putting me down in a teasing way) and I can cut people off politely when they mention him.

 

What a disaster...

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You're angry. Angry YOU suffer and HE does not.

It seems so unfair. So unjust. So WRONG.

 

And it gnaws at you. It hurts. How can the world be like this? Is ANYTHING we believe true? Does good triumph over evil?

 

Yes Virginia, there is a Santa Claus.

 

What you don't see is HIS pain. And its a never ending ache he cannot fathom. I can see it. Its there in HIS actions.

 

You see a man cavorting around without a care in the world. And in this, you see an insult against you, what you "had" and what you believe in.

 

You're wrong.

 

Because what I see is a very insecure, sad person who CANNOT be happy. Always something new. Always something "else". NEVER SATISFIED with what he has. How sad a life that must be...always chasing the ever elusive "better" or "more". Oh...he may not think it...he just ACTS it. He's insecure. He's indecisive. What he has is NOT as good as another. Always second place. Never "good" enough.

 

It just seems so sad to me that he will forever chase and never achieve. He'll never be happy. He'll never be at peace. He'll never be secure. Always something will be missing - and its always on the other side of the fence.

 

Its not about YOU. See the difference. Because you are secure, it was real to you. Because you are at peace, it was real. Because you are happy, it was real. But NOT for him - always chasing, always competing...never knowing WHAT love, peace, security and happiness is. His days are an illusion chasing a ghost.

 

You'll heal. I did.

(I sure hope my xW does...she can STILL drive my crazy with her games...egads).

 

JW

 

I really like this.

 

jj (hug) I hope one day, when you hear his name, it doesn't affect you like it is. There are very few days, but still some, when I hear the MM I was involved with's name, I :confused: and wonder "what if".

 

Thankfully, those times are very rare. I can't image having to continue to work with him and see how his insecurities are doing to not only him, but to other women (who get all gooey eye'd thinking about him).

 

(((((((hug))))))))

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Thanks Fooled much appreciated. Its weird because this woman is really tough. A real hardbitten too many years on the trading floor tough as nails type. So cold as ice, you wonder how she ever had kids type of tough. And she was wearing this low cut thing on her no b**bs skinny azz too many diet cokes frame and you think HOLY %^*& WHY? (it was a thing I have NO idea what the h*ll she was wearing but she thought it was fine must have she wore it)

 

I never would have imagined in a gazillion years that she would get goopy over anyone. Hah! I could have been describing his W:p (now I am being unfair. His W dresses better than this chick did)

 

This happened a month or two ago except last time the chick said (very accusingly) he says AWFULLY nice things about you (and stared at me) and I said well that was nice of him (WTF?)

 

The whole thing is creepy. He must think everyone thrives on his flirtation. But sadly it seems they do or I wouldnt be typing about it now. And sadly while he finds the time to make these women swoon he cant be bothered to save a little bit of that charm for our interactions. I feel like an old shoe. Except instead of being left in the closet I am stepped on when he goes to polish the new ones.

 

Lets just hope in the future he uses his powers for good

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Its weird because this woman is really tough.

 

JJ - you've described yourself in not dissimilar terms before. It strikes me that either....

1) you're identifying with this woman, seeing your (younger / earlier) self reflected in her and in her actions, and because you KNOW what lies ahead for her, that sense of unease is raising for you all those issues you thought you'd dealt with, because you're going to have to face them again... via her; or

2) she is like you, and he sees it too, which is why he's attracted to her the same way he was attracted to you. Or perhaps he's attracted to her BECAUSE she reminds him of you. Either way... he's not done, either, by a long shot. As much as you're finding yourself unable to move on, so is he. He's repeating a pattern here, because he has serious unfinished business with you.

 

Take care of yourself. Don't spread yourself too thin getting caught up in other people's stuff, especially where it's prolonging your own. Recognise what it's setting off for you, but don't let it trap you. It's theirs to work out and play out, and to deal with the fall-out.

 

It's too late to save your earlier self from what you went through with him - and she, in turn, will have to find out for herself the hard way. Watch, at a discreet distance, if you need to - but look after yourself first.

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Thanks OWoman. A part of me cant believe she would actually get involved with him as she is married with children and is young (relatively speakiing - Im guessing he is about 20 years older than she is at least).

 

I hope not to watch - I hope not to be reminded of it again. If she DOES keep mentioning him, I think I will tease her and say listen to you Kim, do you have a crush on him? Of course she will say no, but who knows.

 

I am going to be seeing her alot in the next few months and have inadvertently drawn her into my circle and her into mine. I say inadvertently as it was all done prior to this came up. She is his type - physically. The total opposite of me and the type he went for religiously before me ( based on what I have surmised and what his wife looks like). But oh my, I so dont want to think about it.

 

I will however have some idea of what is going on because even if she does not mention him to me again (we live in hope) I may hear if she introduces him to various people that I know but who knows. I mentioned her to him months ago and he said she was a sweetheart which is not a telling comment coming from him.

 

Oh my. I just hate having to think about it. It would be nice to make friends with people that are not polluted by him. But he seems to be everywhere at the moment, in the press, his name is on peoples lips, I have to say I used to scoff when Owls said I should change jobs, but I am beginning to think about it.

 

If I could figure out something else to do when I grow up, I would do it at this point. It has all become very stressful and is not helped with him predicting doom and gloom for me.

 

Friday is the start of a new year. I cant wait. New decade. Out with the old, in with the new! The last 10 years are a chapter I am ready to close.

 

Edited to add - other than our nationality we are not much alike. Most of the women in my industry are tough. Its a tough business. Male dominated competitive tricky etc etc. so you have to be tough or you wont survive or at least you wont be successful. But she is very different than I am but she is definitely his type moreso in many ways than I am (based on the type of women hes gone for in the past).

Edited by jj33
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I'd agree with this. Consider it a lucky escape. Even if things HAD "worked out" for you, this scenario may have happened with him pursuing her and you sitting at home, unaware.... You have no way of knowing, other than knowing that things didn't work out between you FOR A REASON.

 

I agree with OWoman.

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