What is she trying to achieve with this?

[LongLostSoul]

For the full story that leads to this click http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showthread.php?p=2512941#post2512941

 

Anyways its Christmas today and she has made my head spin completly. Two days ago she turned up for work bringing in simple cards for everyone that she signed on the spot for some people. I didnt get one and felt a bit odd until we were all standing in the office when she shoved a plastic bag in my hand. She didn't look at me and all our colleagues from our team were around. It was as if she couldn't look at me. She said "here, this is for you" It had a card in from her.. signed by her and her hubby But also a present - which I was not to open until Christmas day. Which is today. She already lead on it was something I could wear - like jewellry.

 

So I opened it this morning. In front of my girlfriend. I opened it and found a set of earrings, pure silver in the shape of angel wings - identical almost to one of my tattoos. Also there was a ring with like a silvery grid/bracelet attached to it. And then perfume with the bottle in the shape of a heart..

I was gobsmacked. The presents are simple but kind and definitly from the heart. I am just too confused to understand with which intentions she has given it to me.

 

I want her so badly. And I am beginning to believe she does too. Perhaps this is not the right place to tell this but there is nowhere else I can go. o sorry guys if its the wrong place but somehow Christmas has become a slight torment because of this and all I can think about is why she did this. I didnt buy her anything because I thought it would be too obvious I fancy her. Too obvious for her, for me and for everyone else. But she did it.

[Shouldacouldawoulda]

What did your gf say about the gifts? They do sound awfully personal, and your other post made my heart ache for you.Not sure if I missed this, but has she had a physical relationship with a woman before?

 

I also understand the ache, the almost physical pain of not being with someone you feel so intensely connected to. It is a hard feeling, and it only gets worse and more confusing when one or both of you are involved in another relationship.

Edited December 25, 2009 by Shouldacouldawoulda
More to add

[LongLostSoul]

My gf knows this woman is my friend, that we are pretty close friends as well and she thought it sweet she had brought me presents. She didn't actually say anything as to whether she liked her buying me this stuff. I havent sensed she disagrees. She also bought me quite an expensive present for my birthday. Something she know I loved and wanted to have but my gf hates it so she bought it me anyway...

 

No she has not been in a physical relationship with a woman before, in all her life. I am aware of this and as much as I would love to think she does has some sort of feelings for me I am almost too scared to believe it. Its a push me pull me game. She is all over me for days and then we both back off and then one of us will come close again, either at work or online. The other week I had almost avoided her completly at work but then she came online and talked there several times that day..

 

Its beginning to drive me insane and I just am climbing up the walls in pure, utter frustration. I wore my earrings yesterday. Does it feel odd to wear something she gave me and feel so much closer?

[TaraMaiden]

Really, I think the questions are these:

Do I love my GF enough to commit to her, stay with her and 'foresake all others'?

(Doesn't sound like it.)

If you fight a lot, and believe that *cliche* you love her but aren't IN love with her - then you need to be open, honest and admit your feelings and ask her to decide what is acceptable to her, of this, and what is unacceptable.

The fairest thing really though, would be to end this relationship, because not only are you not in it, you are so far into your head with it, it's more of a distraction and hurdle, than important and vital factor.

 

You need to get a grip, girl.

 

In tough times, sometimes, we need to make tough statements and even tougher choices.

With so much drama going on, this is no time to pussyfoot, prevaricate or perambulate through matters and issues that need addressing.

 

This other woman at work:

You need to either give her back her gifts, as inappropriate, because they evoke too much emotion in you - or you need to confront her and ask her really, what the end-game is.

 

You see, we all do things to achieve a response, but we never think ahead to what the end-game is.

we never look ahead at our intended long-term consequences - because pretty much, we haven't even thought of what they could be.

we just want a response, now, little considering the wider implications.

 

What does she think she's playing at?

there is electricity between you. There are feelings and you both seem to have an unspoken agreement that something has definitely clicked between you, to understate it. She's even talked of 'moving in with you'.....

 

But does she reciprocate your feelings?

Would she enter into a romantic, intimate, physical relationship with you?

And her situation for her husband is very much similar to the one between you and your GF.

She needs to get a grip and deal with it.

 

And you need to corner her, and get things out into the open.

because otherwise you'll be dancing around uncertainty for far too long for sane comfort.

 

Do something.

No chasm was ever conquered in two small steps.....

[LongLostSoul]

I think one of the things I havent mentioned is that I am unfortunatly very dependant on my girlfriend. How things turned out to be this way I am not sure. Whether she did it intentionally, how can I know? I moved countries for her. Have no family here apart from my inlaws and very few friends, of which the woman who is in the centre of this is one.

 

We have a joint bank account so she can always see what I am doing because both our salaries are in there. I have suggested getting an account of my own and she does agree with this but then does mention at the same time we should both have one with small ammounts of money each month and the main salaries being put in the joint account to still pay the bills because she doesnt want it split - which either forces me to save and wait before I can afford to leave or leave and have nothing at all... I am sure she doesnt intend to do it this way but it makes me very dependant and it has made me realize I can barely do anything unnoticed.

 

I don't drive. Ican't buy a plane ticket in advance because she'll know. I cant put money aside unnoticed unless I take out small ammounts in cash.

 

My gf always says things like "I wouldnt be able to go on without you". The woman I fancy says its emotional blackmail but I think thats perhaps too harsh. My gf says these things and it makes me feel guilty. It makes me worried what happens if I leave. I dont stay because of that. She does make me smile. She makes me laugh but unnoticeably she has almost made me so dependant on her... And I havent realized it until now. She is not doing it because she wants to control me, though she has got a bit of that habit. I have gotten stuck in the wrong web with the wrong spider..

[TaraMaiden]

Then you're staying with her out of a sense of guilt and obligation - which are really the entirely wrong reasons.

And yes, I'm afraid this woman is right when she says it's emotional blackmail.

It is, of a sort.

She is what's known as 'passive-aggressive', and says things in subtle innocent ways to make you believe that (one) she would collapse without you (Guilt trip) and (two) make you depend on her... ie, moving for her and having a joint account.

Go to the bank, and open your own account. you don't need her permission.

then transfer your salary to that, with a monthly transfer to the joint account for shared expenses.

or simply get her to let you know how much the bills are, and give her 50%.

That way, you can budget accordingly.

it's your money, not hers.

She can't force you to do anything unless you are compliant with it.

And by agreeing to her demands, you're enabling her behaviour, and making your position more weak and dependent.

 

Moving in with this other woman might be the solution to getting out of this web, before the black widow paralyses you completely.....

[81West]

One worry I would have is that this woman (X) is being somewhat intoxicated by a sexual curiousity that may never translate to the ability to fall in love with the original poster or any woman. She's lived 45 years as a heterosexual being. It would be terribly sad to toss over your current partner only to have your heart broken in a way that leaves you feeling helpless and rejected in such a fundamental way.

[TaraMaiden]

I think (paradoxically) the two are separate issues, yet connected....

 

Separate, because she not only has her hands full trying to negotiate the minefield of feelings she has for the woman concerned at work, AND juggle with the problem of dependency she has with her partner....

 

and connected, because if all was well, hunky-dory and serene in her household, with her current partner - considering the depth of her emotions for another woman wouldn't even figure.

The reason she has managed to develop feelings/permitted these feelings to develop - is because there is insufficient commitment and affection to hold her in her current relationship.

[LongLostSoul]

TaraMaiden and 81West, I agree with both of you fully. I am terrified of being rejected by the other woman, even friendly wise. However my girlfriend and I make a good partnership but sometimes it feels as if we are just friends. Friends who sleep in the same bed and hardly share the same interests. And other days I look at her and feel like she has given me so much in the past 2,5 - almost 3 years- and even the thought of breaking her heart is enough to make me ache inside. However I know that if anything is ever to happen between me and the other woman (with or without my gf knowing) it will break so much more...

 

Today is the first day I will see her again. The other woman. The last time I saw her was Thursday when we broke up for Christmas at work. We had a snow ball fight and went home. I texted her twice on Christmas day. Once to say thank you for the presents and once randomly - it was a text to everyone in my phone saying Merry Christmas. She did not respond to either, nor did she engage in any form of conversation online. So its been basically NC for several days and its been hard.

I am almost no longer used to not speaking to her, seeing her or texting her on a daily basis. I am wondering if its because of the presents she has now distanced herself. She normally texts me, chats to me etc right in front of her husband.

 

Today me and her will most likely spend over 5 hours in a car. Half of that time will only be me and her, on the way back there will be a third person. I have no idea how I am going to cope unless she starts talking to me. But so often we sit in silence and listen to music. Its freakin torture.

[TaraMaiden]

I'm sorry hun, but the bull is there to be had by the horns, and somehow, you're going to have to break this stalemate once and for all.

 

Otherwise, ask yourself:

If you do nothing, how much longer is this going to go on for?

How much more can you bear?

Something's got to give, and you have to shake it, to break it.

[LongLostSoul]

*screams internally after coming home from work*

 

Right... so this has been a long and painful day. We hung around outside work for a bit with other colleagues as we waited for teamleader to turn up with the right keys. Just chatting and stuff. I said I liked the presents - this time to her face. I mentioned how the earrings were identical to my tattoo and she confessed to having bought them because they reminded her of my tattoo in the first place. We did indeed drive up together to the place we were expected to be. And it wasnt too much of an uncomfortable silence actually. We had the music on and talked about what we did for Christmas and other casual stuff.

 

The way home was qiueter as I was forced to sit in the back this time. Plenty of time to stare out of the window and feel that terrible aching, twisting feeling in my stomach. The rest of the time, back at the place where we work, we sort of acknowledged each other's pressece but conveniently stayed out of each other's way. But she glanced at me and I looked at her and just ached inside.

 

I cannot remember ever having ached inside this way before. I just wanted to run away and cry because it just hurts so bad. I can't stand the pain and yet I always look for it, to be near her. Whatever song I hear reminds me of what I feel for her, of what I have, of what I miss, of what I want, of where I want to be. She is always in my thoughts somewhere, mostly because I try so hard not to. How ironic and messed up does that sound.

[LongLostSoul]

I screwed up with the OW at work yesterday by accidentally making a joke that can get her into trouble because it involved something she told me in confidence but someone possibly overheard us.

 

Also someone else made a joke about her and me, saying that if she ever needed mouth-to-mouth my teamleader knew who the OW would pick... (between my teamleader - also female but very annoying but with an ego the size of the universe and me..) from the OW's behaviour it was clear she would indeed NOT pick the teamleader.

 

I realized how uncomfortable the joke made by teamleader made me feel - as I dont want people at work to really know how I feel for this OW and am worried people can tell in like our behaviour etc- and I was devastated I had possibly caused trouble. I didn't sleep for most of the night, just lying awake and thinking about what this was doing to me. I could have cried, but didn't. But god did it hurt.

 

So today, after an arguement with my gf this morning, my gf told me she scared where things would end up between us if we didn't make any changes. So we talked. We agreed we need to change and need to try harder if we want this to change. I never once mentioned the OW. Though I had spoken to her prior to the row between me and my gf (she approached me, which I had not expected after last night's mess up at work) and had actually finished the chat with her saying I needed to speak to my gf and see what me and her were doing today. She wished me luck...

So my gf and I have agreed we are going to change things. We are going to try harder and make this work between us. Neither of us got into this to see it fail. So yes, we will try to better our relationship.

 

And..I also told the OW this. I have just spoken to her online, as I knew she'd want to know how my day was. I told her my gf and I had talked and that we have agreed to work on our relationship. I said we had a row this morning but decided to try harder. She said she admired the sentiment because too many people rather dump it and leave it. And then she came out with this odd sentence "I hope things work out to a satisfactory conclusion between you and your gf" That sounded odd, someone who perhaps is hurt or distanced themselves. But I thought she needed to know.

 

I don't think I can walk away from her easily, the OW. We are friends and I need her. I know she needs me. I like hanging out with her. But I want my relationship back, I want it to be better. I am wondering if she will be any different towards me at work tomorrow.....

As soon as I told her I want the relationship between me and my gf to work she stopped talking to me. She is still online but hasn't said anything since that last "I hope things work out to a satisfactory conclusion"..

 

Did I hurt her? Maybe.

[TaraMaiden]

(. . .)

As soon as I told her I want the relationship between me and my gf to work she stopped talking to me. She is still online but hasn't said anything since that last "I hope things work out to a satisfactory conclusion"..

 

Did I hurt her? Maybe.

That's very telling.

 

"I hope things work out to a satisfactory conclusion" is ambiguous at best, and emotionally loaded at worst.

 

In other words, if you end up staying together, that will obviously be a satisfying conclusion to you.

If it concludes that you don't stay together, that could very well turn out to be satisfactory to me....

I think she might be a little jealous. envious.

miffed and even somewhat slighted.

 

If working it out with your GF is what you really want to do, out of a genuine desire to rekindle the affection and closeness and intimacy, then good on you.

But if you think you should, as an obligation, and as a means of putting your affection for this other woman under a carpet, then you are doing it for all the wrong reasons....

 

Don''t you think?

[LongLostSoul]

I want to save my relationship. I cannot walk away from this without knowing I have tried the best we both deserve. if it is meant to be, it is meant to be. What's meant to be will always find its way - some of my friends say. I like to try and believe that. I have told my gf what I need from her. She told me what she needs from me and I hope that maybe we have listened enough to each other to find a mutual way of working it out.

I do not want to find myself waking up one day and realizing I have given up on something that did not only give me misery for almost 3 years but also many many good moments and gave up without a fight. I believe things to be worth fighting for.

 

I am interested about the thoughts about the OW's comments and they trigger something in me I cannot quite explain. She is still online and has not spoken to me again. A friend, who I have convided in today, pretty much said the same as you, TaraMaiden. About the OW's thoughts and the oddness of her presents.

 

I am slightly worried about tomorrow and about how the OW is going to react towards me. Even the idea of possibly having hurt her is enough to twist my stomach. I am preparing for another sleepless night.

[LongLostSoul]

I am at work at the moment. With the OW. I am doing this via my mobile as I am just desperate and need to vent. She has not acted that strange or different, perhaps more quiet. She did bring it back up, me and my gf trying to work it out. She wanted to know what my gf said and what will change. She then said that if we have to work so hard now after only 3 yrs the future would be even harder. She was bitter when she asked what I would do in 10 yrs, trapped in a marriage with nowhere to go. I told her she had a choice to leave him. She said she made her bed and thus has to lie in it. I then directly asked if that meant she'd rather be unhappy for the rest of her life.. It remained quiet and then someone walked in. She is quieter today, stares alot. As do i. We spend ages sitting in silence. Its just me and her today, and a lad we look after. I dont doubt what I told her last night has done something to her. I know I have to do this.

[reboot]

I'm curious why you don't mention in this thread that the 'OW' is married.

[LongLostSoul]

I did mention it. There is a link in the first post about how things got to be this way. It does not fail to mention she is, unhappily, married. Also in this thread I mention the xmas card was signed by her and her H.

[TaraMaiden]

She then said that if we have to work so hard now after only 3 yrs the future would be even harder.

Every relationship, is a work in progress, and doesn't remain ststic. it needs continuous work, continuous effort, and continuous commitment, in equal doses from both parties, 100% of the time.

you have to communicate, and have trust in one another, and Respect one another.

but like relationships, people are works-in-progress too.

And sometimes, the changes a person goes through, as their characters evolve and unfold, and their temperaments adjust, and their baggage either becomes heavier or lighter, are actually counter-productive to the relationship, and have the effect of making the two grow apart, as opposed to come together.

Everything has a beginning, a middle and an end.

Bit sometimes, whilst it is foolish to give up on something, sheer stubbornness, and the sheer desire to prove something right, doesn't make the effort either skilful or wise.....

 

She was bitter when she asked what I would do in 10 yrs, trapped in a marriage with nowhere to go.

But - what WILL you do in 10 years' time, if things do go tits up?

How long are you going to give this relationship?

have you discussed a time-line with your partner?

How are you going to recognise whether it's failing, if you are so determined to make it work?

What's your end-game?

 

I told her she had a choice to leave him. She said she made her bed and thus has to lie in it.

That'a just Bull5h1t, and a cop-out.

It's fear that holds her there, not resignation.

Everybody has choices.

Whether they take the right one - or take one at all - is up to them.

But she always has a choice....

 

I then directly asked if that meant she'd rather be unhappy for the rest of her life.. It remained quiet

 

"That's because she realised she herself could be held accountable, and wasn't practising what she was preaching.

I think it means that, if you were to make a move on her - she'd probably be

a lot more considerate of leaving her marriage.

I think she feels you've taken away that possibility for her....

 

She is quieter today, stares alot. As do i. We spend ages sitting in silence. Its just me and her today, and a lad we look after. I dont doubt what I told her last night has done something to her. I know I have to do this.

 

You do, do you?

Why?

Why are you sure - for sure - other than having this grim determination to make something thst was already failing, work, and yet walk away from something that potentially could spell bliss for you?

 

Just asking.

(Playing devil's Advocate, if you like.....)

[LongLostSoul]

EVERYTHING has changed. And I mean everything. Since that last message everything has changed and nothing is the same anymore.

 

We were talking again. Intensely, about the same object and about what her new years reselutions were. We were sitting in the kitchen at work, cooking together. I had asked her what her resolutions were for 2010 and she answered she wished that this year she could make her mind up about where her marriage would end up (leaving/staying) but she said probably nothing would ever change. She said that losing the house she has now would be her biggest reason. Anyway, we talked some more and suddenly she stood up, clearly almost overwhelmed and ready to burst and said "Right, I might as well tell you... I am in love with someone else than my husband". I froze. Because the sentence wasn't over. "And its such and such..." I felt as if I had been hit by a brick and I realized I had been wrong all this time. This whole year I had been wrong. Everything she said to me, everything she did for me and did with me. I had been so wrong. And I never felt my heart break like that before. "I have had feelings for him for quite some time. I love my H but not like the intense love I felt for him when I met him" (the person she was talking about is a fellow colleague, I consider him a mate and he and his gf just had a baby 2 days ago. She cant stand the gf -obviously- and is annoyed over the baby)

 

Was this an EA with only me realizing and recognizing it for what it was? Maybe. Was this just me being a complete stupid, brainless idiot who didn't see the difference between one and the other? Likely...

 

And I stood there. I had to be a comfort to her while at that same time she had just broken my heart. I can't believe I have been this stupid. Have I been this blind to even consider she felt for me what I feel for her? Have I been so ignorant, so blind, so stupid, so...so.... I don't know.

I was at work. It was me and her. I had nowhere to go. All I wanted was to run away and cry and kick the **** out of something or beat something up. Eventhough I had decided about my relationship with my gf and to make the changes this felt like a blow. And yet - almost immediatly - a sense of strength.

Maybe I need this. Maybe I needed this right now to move on. I was strong and talked about it with her. How she felt etc. I never once showed how hurt I was. I was strong and in control.

 

I cannot believe that maybe over this whole time she never once truly noticed what I felt, never read the signals or anything. I cannot believe I misread everything. Has she lied to me? I cannot believe she has. Did she try and catch me out? Did she do something I didn't see? Did I misjudge her... much more likely. I am stupid for falling for the ones I can never have anyway.

She showed me a text he had sent her and she said she didnt need this from him. He had called her a beautiful rose. And then.. she kissed me goodnight (on the cheek) and wished me a happy New Year.

 

A tiny part of me thinks "Why did you tell me now? You have had so many other times... Why now?" I am wondering why she told me exactly today. The day after I told her my gf and I are working things out, still planning our wedding she tells me she is in love with another guy. Why now? Me and her have had so many conversations. Seconds before she told me she was in love with this guy she told me she never saw the guy she had fancied years ago anymore either... Somehow I cannot deny the slight feeling she told me to hurt me. To see what I would do, say, feel. It sounds awful but I cannot deny I am thinking it.

 

If that thought is true than perhaps I deserve it. So this is me now. New Years Eve with my girlfriend and we are staying in, with little bites of food and drinks. And I will enjoy it. And it doesn't matter what I think about the MOW words. The pain will wear off, I believe that. I will be better this new year. And she will not get to me anymore like she has done. I will be her friend and she can be mine. This is a secret only we share and I will not betray her. Maybe I needed this. Maybe I needed this so I can move on. And I will. 2010 will be better for me. I guess I will make a resolution after all.

I am going to have a few too many drinks and make the best out of the days that come next.

Edited December 31, 2009 by LongLostSoul

[LongLostSoul]

Thank you BB07... Its much needed and very much appreciated! xx

 

Anyway... not long after I got home last night the MOW sent me a text saying she ran into that guy she once fancied in the pub. So I told her I believed that to be almost sickly ironic (since she had just told me she had not ran into him for ages + that she was in love with this other guy). I wished her a happy New Year and she wished me the same back. I turned my phone off.

 

When I switched it back on this morning there was a text from her, send at half past 2 this morning saying she was drunk. That was all it said. Bit of an odd text to send but she has that habit of sending me texts like thar. I text her back saying I was sick. I am sick. I have a fever and my body aches and a nasty cough so yeah..brilliant start of the year! I had to call work and cancel my nightshift tonight. I caught that that cough of her, most likely. We texted back and forth for a bit. Nothing special. And as I sent the last one (my gf is going to the movies with her sis as I am ill and I am gonna go back to sleep forever) she didn't text back.

 

So this is it now. I am starting the new year sick. Ironic. But it will get better and I will get better I have a few brilliant Jo Dee Messina songs here and am listening to them.

[TaraMaiden]

I'll tell you something, and listen up and listen up good:

 

You may be feeling mixed-up-crazy, right now, but you know what?

 

She is one phukked-up lady.

She's making an almighty mess of her life, with negative feelings for her husband, feelings for this new-dad-fellow-worker-buddy of yours, and this mysterious 'guy she once fancied'-....

and all while still married...

Then she texts you drunk...

She has some heap-big issues, and you know what?

I really don't think you need this at all....

 

Get yourself better. Focus on you, now - and you alone.....

Focus also, if you want, on your GF and what you want from her, from this relationship.

Also, what you don't want from her, like excessive control and emotional manipulation.

Learn to recognise to distinguish those from genuine care concern and love.....

[LongLostSoul]

MOW felt the need to speak to me this morning online. She asked how I was feeling (hmmm... bit of a loaded question since she already knew I was sick) so I told her I still felt miserable. Leave her to figure it out...

 

Anyway she then went on to describe the night she had last night and made a comment that she had to take over my role as the one to have pics taken of cleavage/boobs (explanation: whenever we go out and drink, she takes pictures of my chest/cleavage.. some odd habit we have gotten into). she said hers were far less impressive than mine.

I decided to jump straight at it and ask why she felt the need to text me at 2.30 in the morning, drunk. She answered back she had replied to one of my texts coming through at that same moment and then I knew it was a load of rubbish. My last text was about something different and had been send 4 hours earlier. There was no way my text didn't come through until then, even if it was NYE. She also claimed she had no idea what time it was.

I left it at that because to me it just felt like random drunk texting. We have done that before but somehow now it seemed so wrong.

 

I dont feel the need to speak to her at the moment. I wont see her again until Friday, when we all go out with a bunch of friends for a party. And at the moment I really feel like "well, screw you lady..."

[TaraMaiden]

I have to admit (though I'm not defending her) I have had long-time discrepancies between times of texts sent, and subsequently received. Only last night, a friend of mine texted me at shortly gone midnight to wish me a happy new year. I got it this morning at just gone seven.

 

But she's acting like an idiot, and frankly, I think you're developing the right attitude now. She's a bit of a drama queen, and all this crap could be resolved more quickly if she just divorced her husband (which would be the best and fairest thing for both of them) and acted sensibly.

She looks set on doing neither......

[LongLostSoul]

I am surprised by myself. I don feel the need to talk to her or to text her.

 

She talked to me this morning. Its been her talking to me. I havent approached her since NYE. She popped up on the chat, just asking how I was feeling and randomly commenting on the fact there was snow outside (who said talking about the weather isnt a way to strike up conversation?). And then she went off because her sister was coming round. And I was like "If you dont have anything usefull to say... why say anything at all?"

 

I didnt say this to her, but I thought it.

[TaraMaiden]

She's testing the waters to see what reaction you're giving to her many and sundry little bombshells....

And you are doing exactly the right thing....

I would say that you're distancing yourself from her, because at moments like these, she's very flaky, manipulative and - not very likeable....

I'm sorry.

It's a shame.

But maybe, it's a blessing in disguise....

(louusy disguise, though....! )

How are you and your GF coping with each other?

Things better, there?