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The pain is intense.. I deserve it though


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Hi-

I am writing out of venting... (Reading my other posts I am sure you would see I am/was in a toxic relationship with a MM- I am 21 he 38) I feel pathetic and stupid in writing this. Please no judgement or harsh words.

 

Last night he came over... I cooked a nice meal... All was fine or so I thought... We got into a little argument... Nothing horrible and I became quiet afterwards. I did express to him I am tired of this (us) and he claimed the same...

Ten minutes later he grabbed his stuff and said he was leaving and he would call me/see me tomorrow. I asked him to please stay, this is stupid (the fight) and can we back track twenty minutes. He sat on the couch and did not want to speak to me. He then started to tell me: that his W (they are separated and I was told its over from both) was telling him that his son misses him a lot at night-- wakes up and asks for daddy (hearing that killed me-- I would NEVER want to take a child away from a parent), his life is ****, what do I want from him, he told me we have no future and this is just fun, also there were so many times when he was over my house he wanted to sit down and have a serious talk about ending this... (This has been going on for almost 2 years... We have broken it off many times and have gotten back together) I am so pretty and open my eyes. He begins to tell me that he didn't use me-- he thanked me for doing his laundry (a couple tee shirts here and there) and cooking nice meals. But he fights with me more than he does with the W. Fighting at the house (he pays the house for the family because $ is tight but he has his own room... Not to mention 4-6 nights a week he was sleeping with me) and then he fights with me-- its to much. He cares about me in the sense if something happened to me... He did have a good time but needs quiet... I told him I felt awful, this hurts so much, and the I feel like a monster... He then told me he was going to stay but slept in the guest room... In the middle of the night I asked him to sleep with me (I was a mess) and he flipped out but did...

This morning I made coffee and asked him "So this is over right?" He wouldn't look at me but told me he didn't know... Then he thinks so... He can't keep coming here at night/sleeping with me and not being with the kids...

As I said this man and I have had a very toxic abusive relationship. But I am crazy for him. The W and I have actually spoken-- she told me she is done with him, would not go back to him for a million dollars or for her kids, I seem like a nice girl and be done with him, she of all people knows he will never change. We were both victims of his lies... I told her I was sorry for the involvement of the pain she is dealing with... She seems amazing...

 

It just hurts so bad. We have been back in the same town for 3 months and we break it off for a couple days and then get back together. Why does he come back if he hates me so much? How can the other night he be sleeping next to me, arms wrapped around me, and give me soft kisses? (Sex was not present) If he views me as the devil...

 

Just yesterday he texted me during the day "I miss you.. Besos" if he resents me and didn't want to be with me why does he text that? I know he feels that I want to be with him every night-- we don't see each other during the day. He feels pressure from me that he needs to sleep with me every night or I will fight with him. I tell him go sleep in the house at night with his kids... Yes, I have in the past got upset if I have not heard from him in a long time... But its not the same as saying I expect him to stay with me every night.

 

I am sorry for writing this.. I am pathetic and a mess... I just miss him so much. Why do I miss someone so much that does not feel the same about me? Why when we broke up (due to a fight) after I say all the horrible things he comes back.. Better yet why do I keep letting him come back? Why do I still want him back when his clearly isn't coming back?

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You are being manipulated by a drama queen.

 

Its as simple as that. Some people create their own messes over and over again and blame everyone around them because they are selfish at heart.

 

His wife sounds like she tried to wait it out but now realizes she is better off without him.

 

Use her hindsight, as hard as it may be for you...to move onto other life experiences.

 

He will not let you go, but will continue to create this mess as long as you allow it in your life. His wife is done with it and now he needs another person to abuse.

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torranceshipman

I agree, this guy is just a drama queen - even his W feels bad for you! He just creates drama, and is an emotional leech on eveyone around him. Clearly, his W clearly just got bored with all of the crap, and left. Now he is taking it out on you. He's not really a prize, is he? But to know him is to be emotionally crapped on by him - that is his nature - and you are still willingly signing up for it. As long as you sign up for the crap, you'll get the crap.

 

Why do ou go back? Because you mustlike the drama on some level. When you stop liking it, it will actually bore you, as it did his W, who now feels sorry for you as she can see what the future holds for you. Now she's warned you - Listen to her, she knows what she is talking about.

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Well, I'm exasperated and I'm not close to you. I can only imagine what your friends and family must be experiencing.

 

Look...this "man" has done so much damage to you its not even funny. And pardon me for saying this...you are too young and naive to fully grasp it. The damage inflicted is NOT just the herpes you contracted. Its far more as evidenced by your posts.

 

I said before he is toxic, radioactive and cancerous. He is.

 

I can only say, for the last time, stay away from him, seek counseling and support from professionals and friends and family.

 

I'm out...good luck.

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Fer chrissakes, you're 17 years his junior!

You're really just a child, and have really developed completely the wrong kinds of Life experiences, here.

 

This guy is a complete waste of space.

he's manipulative, selfish, self-centred and self-serving.

he's using you and really? Frankly, at his age, should know a lot better.

And whilst you are still within throwing distance of your childHOOD, he's the one who is being completely and utterly childISH.

 

You need to completely cut off all contact from this man, and stop yourself from becoming more pathetic (your word, not mine....)

You have to really toughen up - which is unfair, on a young girl of your age, to have to do, but you need to delete any reference to him on your 'phone, block his calls and stop him from seeing you.

Dopn't let him in, don't answer the door, don't reply to his words, do nothing.

Put a sock, a blanket, a whole bed in your mouth if you need to, but never rise to the bait, and just completely cut him off from you.

 

He's an emotional vampire, and he's feeding off you.

You have to find the strength to use the metaphorical stake and never ever let him close enough to suck you dry, again.

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Thank you everyone...

 

Its not that I love the drama, but I am attached to him on some sick twisted level. I miss being around him... I guess no matter how busy you are during the day coming home to a empty apartment is lonely... Having him there fills some sort of void, and he was the first guy in many ways-- sleeping with, going away with, etc. He has said a lot of hurtful things in the past. We have been crazy towards each other and physical with each other. I am burnt out and tired-- but it doesn't stop me from feeling the pain and crying and crying. I am weak. But he did say last night that he has wanted to sit me down and speak serious... Its to much and not easy for him to come and spend the nights with me... Then this morning when I stupidly asked him if its over his response was "I don't know... Yes... I can't keep sleeping her at night and having my kids at home..." (Which as I said I would NEVER want to keep a child from seeing their father) After he said that (I was making coffee for him) I threw a plastic container of muffins at him crying I hate you I hate you (Yes, I am pretty crazy... Never use to be this nuts though)

 

 

So if he said that, then I guess he won't be coming back.. I need to be done with it, but even though I am on the fence, it does not look like he is coming back. I should listen to the W and her wisdom. She was so diplomatic and kind to me (even though I was lied to by him its not her problem and she didn't need to be so kind) So told me that she is done with him and if I wanted him he is all mine--- but time heals all wounds and she doesn't reccomend me going back to him... Perhaps she is trying to fix this with him? She does know he gave me herpes-- 100% he gave it to me.

 

I am crazy and a mess.. Stupid stupid stupid me. What happened to my life? I use to be so close to my friends and family. I use to be a confident silly "kid" that knew I had so much to learn but was high on life. Now I am a shell of a person... I am very depressed and feel completely lost. I can't blame this all on him. But I feel sick to my stomach. I stayed with a man who wanted nothing to do with me.

 

A month ago after a horrible fight I went north for a week. He called me and fought with me. Told me this was truly over... He was finished with me... I was crazy... We went a couple days without speaking... Guess who picked me up at the airport when I went back?? Yep, I am truly 100% stupid.

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You my dear are making it hard for him to leave,you are trying to hard it seems like he is trying to avoid drama by hurting you so he deals with you.

 

MM is missing his family and not just his kids,rather than being alone he is with you for the time being.

 

My advice to you and please do not take it the wrong way,get a backbone and and end it with him stop trying to keep someone who's heart and mind is some where else.

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Right.

In this case, all is not lost.

What you need to do, is re-connect with your friends and family.

Pour out your heart to them, and ask them for help.

You need to be open with them, and admit you've screwed up and that you need shelter, and familial love again.

 

And the one thing you definitely need to do is to quit beating yourself up and calling yourself stupid.

So what?

If we could all pile the "100% stupid" stuff we all did in one great heap, you'd laugh at some of the stuff you'd see, and know that your 100% stupid is really not all that bad.

You're very young, and this will stand you in good stead.

You have plenty of time to recover, and providing you remember that putting one foot in front of the other, involves moving away from the situation, you''re going to be fine.

Say that to yourself.

"I'm going to be fine."

keep with this mantra, and forget the 100% stupid one, because you're not.

No way.

 

You're here, aren't you?

 

You're going to be fine.

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torranceshipman

Omg on top of all of this, he gave you herpes?!?

 

Listen to TaraMaiden, she made great recommendations. Definitely reconnect wiht family and friends, tell them everything about how you feel, maybe even show them this post - they will really help you. He is just a sad old middle aged crisis and totally toxic to you. BUT you need to take complete responsibility for your own happiness and leave him else you're going to be depressed for a whole lot longer.

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I can tell you from experience, you're in way too deep. You won't be able to get out of this "addictive love" alone.

 

Are you able to find a therapist that works with codependence?

I recall your story from a while back. He's a drinker you said?

 

Like everyone says, he's an emotional leech, but this is classic behaviour of an alcoholic.

 

You will keep going back until you figure out why you need to be there

 

good luck

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This relationship is abusive. The reasons and the ways dont matter. Who is doing the abusing or most of it dont matter. It IS an abusive relationship.

 

Still, you love him so its hard for you to hurt him and hard for you to protect yourself.

 

But the thing about being in an abusive or even volatile relationship is...that it often doesnt end for you even when you leave. Thats right.

Once you have become accustomed to a relationship that includes abuse - be it hitting, yelling, controlling, or neglect...you have a comfort level for that type of relationship. Think of someone who is used to getting hit at home by a parent, then they live with a guy who doesnt hit but is a yeller or throws things. They think...well, he doesnt beat me. But it all escalates. Its all abuse. Often the abused also become abusive or dramatic...because now its the accepted norm of their relationships. Follow?

 

Regardless of your intelligence or accomplishments...if you allow this type of relationship to become comfortable to you...you are destined to repeat it.

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As I said this man and I have had a very toxic abusive relationship. But I am crazy for him.

 

Al I had to do is read one line from your post to tell you to MOVE on.. and fast. A toxic and abusive relationship is not love and could be very harmful. Why would you want that anyway? Your also very young. Perhaps.. shift your focus to someone your own age and to someone who is NOT married. I wish you the best.

 

Mea:)

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I agree with mea, and 2sure.... (3 women who all agree on the same thing? How cool is that?!?)

 

This relationship has precious little to do with love, and a whole lot more to do with an addiction to the attention it brings you, because you don't feel you're worth more.

Well you are.

I'm telling you.

mea's telling you.

So's 2Sure.....

Remember your family and friends?

They'd tell you the same.

We'll all tell you.

 

but you know what?

An entire sports stadium of belting alg24 fans could shout it loud enough to clear the clouds, but it would have no effect if you didn't believe it for yourself.

so you have to change that mind-frame of yours and understand - and believe - that you deserve sooooo much better than this.

Toxic relationships have a habit of recurring, because you settle for less than you deserve.

he's way less than you deserve.

And you, in your youth and sensuality, are far more than he does.

You're bright, intelligent and you have so much going for you.

So, either get on that road, and start walking, or succumb to the temptation of one toxic relationship after another, and become a statistic.

is that what you want?

To be another statistic?

God, I hope not.

I so hope not.

 

As do your family and friends.

go find 'em.

talk to them.

And become your own human being again.

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This is the first thread on LS where I have agreed 100% with everything the responses say.

 

I guess that means there's no two ways of looking at this.

 

Get out. He's messed up about himself and his kids, and that means there's nothing left over for you.

 

You will hurt, but boy will you feel good when you turn the corner and look yourself in the mirror and say 'I was young, but I had the wisdom and self-esteem to get out of a negative cycle'

 

You will ultimately feel so good about yourself for getting out of this.

 

ps - you do not deserve this! You deserve better, and that's the point.

Edited by wheelwright
ps
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alg24, I only have one sentence to share, but it's helped me in the past getting out of messy, abusive relationships: Real, true love shouldn't be this hard. And it isn't. Real, healthy love isn't this hard. When you find that special person, being with them and loving them is as natural a feeling as breathing. Seriously, hon, get out now while you still have some of your sanity in tact.

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Thank you everyone.. I am trying very hard..

 

I want him to be with his kids... As I said I would never want to take a child away from his family. And if he wanted to make it work with the W I wouldn't want to stand in the way.. I have told him before to go, fix things-- he says no. When we broke up a couple weeks ago I said everything I was feeling but I never begged him to come back. Yes, I told him he was/did break my heart. I was in a lot of pain. I NEVER said please come be with me at my house. He called me and said he would come over and I weakly allowed it. Two weeks ago he asked me to go away with him for a couple days... It has been back and forth a million times. I guess this time he is really finished though... I know he is in a great deal of pain and he reminded me all the time his life is ****.

 

I got a voicemail from him today... Don't text him because he won't read them. I say the same thing in the text messages. He said he will call me. We can talk. He will not come for my home anymore (he has said that a million times) but we can be friends.

 

I just need to move on and be over this. Its so difficult. I appreciate everyones advice and wisdom. I feel like a pathetic out of control looser. I feel disgusting on top of it. I guess he really was staying around me so there would not be an issue....

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I am so sorry for your pain alg. That is a horrible situation :-(

 

I think though, being friends with this man would only cause you so much more pain - the hurt will never be over. Your heart is broken and this pain isn't going to go away by trying to forge a friendship with him, it will only add to it because you will still be at the receiving end of his manipulative behaviour and why would you want to hear about his life moving forward with his wife? I respect your decision to stand aside so that he can go back, but don't keep yourself there looking in. Walk away. Good luck.

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Thank you. Beyond beyond thank you.

 

I did mention to him weeks ago I felt he stayed with me for a warm body and he took offense to that... I tried very hard and I feel pathetic none the less. It hurts.. I don't understand why I care so much when he does not care at all... During the summer I mentioned its best if its over... He told me to please wait blah blah blah. Regardless, its done? Right now I am weak but I know its for the best. We can NOT be friends.

 

Do you think he will leave me alone?

 

Thank you everyone.

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The question is -- will YOU leave HIM alone?

 

Will you stop responding to calls/texts? Will you NOT open the door to him? All you can control is YOU.

 

I have a feeling we will be seeing another post from you in a couple weeks about how you got back together with him because you were weak and you guys fought and said nasty things to each other.

 

Do you really think this is love? Because it isn't - not by a long shot.

 

You keep trying to find a decent person in him and it isn't there. You keep making excuses. Stand up and OWN what you are doing. You are actively trying to be in a relationship with someone who treats you like crap.

 

WHY?

 

So you don't have to be alone? Bull. WHY are you continuing to be with someone who has manipulated you into the hellish life you are living?

 

You can only claim "victim" for so long --- you KNOW this relationship is toxic. Yet you continue to allow it?

 

WHY?

 

I am not saying this to be mean, but to get you to dig deep and figure out WHY this is going on. I am trying to help you realize this is NOT a relationship and you are wasting your life and your youth.

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fooled once, thank you... Your post its 100% on target. Everyone else, thank you... I don't want to play victim.. I hate that I cry- I feel so beyond weak. Especially when I cry in front of him... The pain is so bad. BUT I know this is not love, he is using me, and I need to move forward. The W who is separated from him (and i am pretty sure filing for D) gave me so much wisdom and advice-- she knows him best and pretty much told me to run! And that was beyond kind of her/diplomatic

 

The W does not want him living in the house full time and when he is not there he has been staying with me... Sometimes when we are in a argument a couple days later he will call me and ask if he can come over... He falls asleep without barely speaking to me... I know he does not care... He can take advantage of me because I have let him.

 

I find myself lonely... I work, am around friends all day long, social, but I come home at night to a 3 bedroom apartment alone. It can be hard... He filled the void of loneliness. I think I am also realizing the herpes has taken a lot harder toll on me-- I am not in denial about having it but I feel guilty and disgusting about it...

 

My family is coming down Saturday... 45 minutes away from my home but an easy drive... I think I am going to go spend a lot of time with them-- especially night time. I need to turn the phone off and keep away...

 

Thank you everyone.. And everyone else in similar situations/in pain good luck and many many *hugs* I've been told time heals all wounds... I look forward to that!!!

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Another thing... I feel/know he is not there mentally... I feel when he stays with me its more of a "using" situation. When I was upset once I threw it in his face he uses me.. He defended himself saying he does not use more-- he comes over for both of us (if he did not want to see me he would not come over) He throws in my face what he has done for me.. Bla bla... Anyway, a friend of mine knows one of the Ws friends (does not know I am with MM but mentioned the W and OW..)... Supposedly the wife told the friend he is NOT welcomed to stay in the house every night. He stays in the guest room when she goes out later at night (he is gone during the summer so when he comes back he watches the kids at night so she can go out and have her time.. only fair) When he and I fight I don't see him for a couple days (he stays at the house) then he calls me and comes back over... Which I stupidly allow... He is not the same person I fell for.. Reality and the lies set in (on his part) I figured many things out as far as the lies are concerned... Now I am just in very deep. Anyway thank you everyone really. Good night

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Cycle of Enablement: The Codependent & The Addiction

 

When a person is controlled by a substance, extremely negative symptoms and behaviors mani*fest that affect the family. Addicts often lie, steal, cheat and use the people in their life to get what they need to continue to use a substance. While it appears to be a substance abuse problem, the roots behind the addiction stem from deeper-rooted issues. This means that the addict’s prob*lem isn’t the substance, rather the drinking or drugs have become a coping mechanism.

 

 

Once in a full-blown addiction, an addict can no longer control or choose to stop using sub*stance, he or she is literally in bondage. To the outside observer, this behavior looks like pure insanity. Family members often do not understand the nature of addiction, nor their ability to overcome it through rationalization, guilt or other tactics. They will spend significant efforts in trying to find ways to get the addict to quit. The role they will assume in the relationship is code*pendent and as they focus more and more on the need to fix and change the addict, it will lead to difficult strains in the relationship at all levels.

 

 

The relationship between the addict and codependent is toxic, and even deadly. While the ad*dict needs to continue to feed the addiction and use all means possible to get the “next high”, the codependent needs to obsessively try to manipulate, intervene, fix and manage that person’s life. Oftentimes, the codependent will appear to be “doing good things” and trying to “help” the ad*dict from self destructing. However, by not allowing the addict to face the consequences of their behavior, the codependent actually ENCOURAGES the addict to stay in the addiction. Thus, we have the term “Enabler”. Sadly, this dynamic can run deeply and last a lifetime with much heart*break and abuse.

 

Let’s see how this typically plays out: (we are using gender roles for an example, but this sce*nario can fit anyone, including brother, fathers, mothers, sisters, friends, etc.)

 

 

 

 

CODEPENDENT/ENABLER CHEMICALLY/BEHAVIORAL DEPENDENT

The “love” of her life is a chemically addicted person. This “love” is what controls and influ*ences her thoughts,feelings and behaviors.

The “love” of his life is substance – this addic*tion is what controls his thoughts, feelings and behaviors.

 

She unknowingly believes without him she will die or be unable to function.

He unknowingly believes without his sub*stance he will die or be unable to function.

 

She is dependent on receiving his love; she finds significance and value through him.

He is dependent on a substance in order to avoid dealing with self and numb pain.

She is excessively loyal to him, despite his disrespect and irresponsibility – she feels it is her job to help him.

He is excessively avoidant and unfaithful because his addiction has first place in his life, and nothing else matters.

 

She is unable to ask him for her needs as that would upset or anger him. It is her job to pro*tect his feelings.

He demands that she meets his needs. While he appears to be strong, his emotional weak*ness dominates the home, causing everyone to “walk on pins and needles”

 

She plays the role of the caregiver – she needs the chemically addicted person in her life to be sick in order to continue in this role. She neglects, however, to care for herself.

He feels entitled and accustomed to be being taken care of – he needs her to take care of him in order to continue his substance use.

 

She is a rescuer who finds significance in “saving” him.

He needs to be kept from negative conse*quences so he can remain in his addictive behavior.

 

She is overly responsible for him to find her own validation and need to be needed.

Because of his irresponsible, addictive behav*ior, he needs someone to blame or to fill in the gaps.

 

She suffers from a lack of identity and changes to please him. She loses herself in his identity. He wants to dominate her sense of identity (i.e.“this is who I say you are.”) in order to maintain a sense of control and be able to re*main in his addiction. He may also ignore her completely.

 

She has low self-esteem and self-worth – she believes the love of the chemically addicted will fix her.

He has low self-esteem and self-worth and uses a substance and control of others to fix him.

 

She has poor personal boundaries – she is easily led to compromise her core values and beliefs to earn his favor or love.

He has no respect for her boundaries – he will push them to get what he needs at any cost in order to remain in his addiction.

She uses rule following or morals to gain her sense of “goodness” to deal with her shame and sense of being unworthy.

He rebels against rules, systems and authori*ties to prove his own sense of control. (i.e., “no one tells me what to do.”)

She uses “good works” or flattery to earn his favor, acceptance and love. She believes if she can love him enough, he will change. He uses any means necessary to meet his own need for substance use. He will use fear, domi*nation, guilt and shame to get what he needs.

 

 

 

 

Recovery

 

In recovery, the addict must go back and face those issues that drove him or her to use drugs or alcohol in the first place. The addict must learn to face life with sobriety, and unlock those places of emotional, spiritual or mental damage in order to begin to learn to live life free from addiction. This process is difficult and requires much time and work. It is essential for the addict to find others recovering from a similar addiction as a support system. (If you have a loved one who needs treatment, please visit our main website at http://www.newlifespiritrecovery.com)

 

The codependent faces some challenges when an addict enters into a recovery program. The family system roles have often been reversed, and the burden of responsibility has usually been unfair and unbalanced. While a codependent usually wants the addict to get clean, they don’t realize that their identity and sense of worth has been tied up in the role they have functioned in to deal with that person’s addiction. This transition can be far more painful then anticipated. For example, a wife may have had to be the leader of the home in all ways and has acted as a single parent. Giving up that position of leadership isn’t as easy and pleasant as one might expect. Fur*thermore, families who have had to face the abusive and negligent behaviors of the addict desire time to rebuild the relationship and to become the “family they have always dreamed of having”. However, the addict in recovery may not have much availability to the family for quite some time, with the necessity of focusing on the process of personal change and healing, oftentimes through the 12 Steps. For the codependent who has had to be “sacrificial” in so many ways, this can seem frustrating and unfair.

 

In recovery, both the codependent and the addict have the challenge of learning to CEASE CON*TROL. For the addict, the focus is primarily on the substance in the beginning (although he or she will realize that the substance was a symptom, not the actual problem.) For the codependent, the major hurdle and challenge is to LET GO OF THE ADDICT. Both will need an individual*ized support system in order for this to work. Without it, it is a GUARANTEE that the relation*ship will fail to become healthy.

 

If the codependent is in denial to the fact that he or she has contributed to the problem, the addict will be forced to rely even more heavily on outside resources and support. This will aggravate the situation initially. If the codependent understands his or her need to get help, there is hope for the relationship to heal eventually, but both need to understand it will be a long road and take time and effort.

 

Sometimes, the codependent gets healthy first while the addict remains in his or her addict. When this happens, the codependent no longer functions as the “enabler”. Ironically, this is sometimes the very key to the addict coming to the end of his or her resources and finally getting help. Other times, it may mean the relationship will end.

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