Why humans can say never

[herenow]

In another thread it was mentioned that since we are all "human" we can't say "never". A few months ago I got into a heated discussion with an OW because I said I could never have an affair. She told me that I could not be sure and I insisted that I can.

 

How can I be so sure? Because I know myself better than anyone. First, I would leave my H if I felt I wanted to be with an OM. Second, if I were single, I could never be interested in a MM who would cheat on his wife. That would be a huge turn off in every way.

 

However, that is not what I want to say in this thread. I was intrigued by the statement regarding affairs, that humans make mistakes. Now, I agree that no one is perfect and everyone makes mistakes. But, as a "human" when I make decisions, I think about how my actions will effect other "humans". I think that is what so many people who see affairs as wrong and destructive can't understand. How anyone can do something knowing that someone (maybe even themselves) could get hurt. A person doesn't need to be a BS, AP or ever involved in an affair to think they are wrong, they just have to be "human"

 

So, another poster may consider affairs to be human, but my definition of being human means looking out for humanity as a whole and trying to do my best to help and not hurt others. I also don't think being human means you get what you what at the expense of others. I guess that is the difference between just being a human and being humane. JMO

[IfWishesWereHorses]

Second, if I were single, I could never be interested in a MM who would cheat on his wife. That would be a huge turn off in every way.

 

This is me, and if I was married I could never be interested in a person that WOULD cheat with me. I know that as well as I know anything. And I am by far perfect!! This is way tooo important to me though. I don't need love bad enough to sacrifice something like that.

[herenow]

Second, if I were single, I could never be interested in a MM who would cheat on his wife. That would be a huge turn off in every way.

 

This is me, and if I was married I could never be interested in a person that WOULD cheat with me. I know that as well as I know anything. And I am by far perfect!! This is way tooo important to me though. I don't need love bad enough to sacrifice something like that.

 

I will call this 1B on my list. Not only would I leave before having an affair, I wouldn't be able to have an affair while married for this very reason.

 

Also, I didn't start this thread to bash OW. It's just a point of discussion. I saw the "human" idea mentioned on another thread and I wanted to comment, but knew it would be a TJ if I did. So, I started a new thread to post my opinion of what was said on the other thread.

Edited November 20, 2009 by herenow

[ladydesigner]

I used to think I was never capable of having an affair until I did. I am still not sure why I let my feelings override my logic. I felt hurt, lonely, vulnerable, and vengeful (sp?). My H had just had an affair and my relationship with my now ex-coworker and XOM had progressed into an EA. I didn't even know what an EA was until I came to LS after my A ended. I think most people are capable of having an A under certain circumstances. Yes I could have said no at the time it progressed to a PA but in the heat of the moment and all the memories of my H's infidelity, how I was being treated by him, etc. I just didn't care human/humane or not.

[threebyfate]

In order to understand someone who will never cheat, you have to be that kind of person. It's all about perception of cheating and willpower. If you feel that cheating is the lowest of lows, you will never indulge in it, since you have some self-respect.

 

It's also true there are no absolutes when discussing human nature. Just like it's true that one day, you might have to kill a child, who is rabid from being bitten by a raccoon and will stop at nothing to kill you. It's possible but how probable is it?

[Virgo1982]

People can say whatever they want to.

[hopeless4u]

I always said I could never have an A and still do believe that. When I was M as far as I was concerned if I had the urge to take it to far with another man then I should and would of left my H(shame he didn't think like that!)

But I'm now the OW and believe me I ask myself the question every day, how could I?? Especially as I've been the BW but all sense and normality go out the window, for what reason I have no idea (hence why I am here I guess)

So I suppose I would answer the question with never say never....ever!

[NoIDidn't]

You know, I ascribe to the "never say never" edict as well BUT I also strive to keep myself out of situations where I would have to eat crow.

 

I totally agree that there is a difference between being "human" and being "humane".

 

My biggest issue with this "being human" claim, though, is that it doesn't extend to the BS. The BS is expected to "rise above it all" and be "super human". The BS is expected to be the epitome of perfection, otherwise it is perfectly acceptable to some mere "human" to interfere in their marriage.

 

(Maybe this thread should be in "Infidelity"? I, too, am not intending to bash any OPs, just don't agree with the obvious conflict in their words to themselves vs. their words about those they are helping to betray.)

[hopeless4u]

You know, I ascribe to the "never say never" edict as well BUT I also strive to keep myself out of situations where I would have to eat crow.

 

I totally agree that there is a difference between being "human" and being "humane".

 

My biggest issue with this "being human" claim, though, is that it doesn't extend to the BS. The BS is expected to "rise above it all" and be "super human". The BS is expected to be the epitome of perfection, otherwise it is perfectly acceptable to some mere "human" to interfere in their marriage.

 

(Maybe this thread should be in "Infidelity"? I, too, am not intending to bash any OPs, just don't agree with the obvious conflict in their words to themselves vs. their words about those they are helping to betray.)

The BS is not expected to be anything and I don't mean that in a bad way as I can completely understand they have been dragged into something that they didn't start but even the BS has a mind of their own. I was a BW once and I chose to leave my H as I couldn't stay in a M where I knew I would throw it back in his face every time he did something I didn't like. So if the BS decided to forgive and work on the M then that is her/his. choice as is the OW's choice to sleep with a MM.

[NoIDidn't]

The BS is not expected to be anything and I don't mean that in a bad way as I can completely understand they have been dragged into something that they didn't start but even the BS has a mind of their own. I was a BW once and I chose to leave my H as I couldn't stay in a M where I knew I would throw it back in his face every time he did something I didn't like. So if the BS decided to forgive and work on the M then that is her/his. choice as is the OW's choice to sleep with a MM.

 

 

Oh, (((hopeless4u)), I hadn't even read your post. I was just posting my opinion on the matter. I'm really sorry if it came off like I was answering you for something you said.

[whichwayisup]

I think alot of people would never, ever physically cheat, but many unknowingly fall into an EA, without realizing it's an EA. (Grampi is a perfect example of this and he's about to end the 'friendship' with his lady 'friend'.

[hopeless4u]

Oh' date=' (((hopeless4u)), I hadn't even read your post. I was just posting my opinion on the matter. I'm really sorry if it came off like I was answering you for something you said.[/quote']

 

No, no its fine, I didn't respond in defense it just made me think thats all.

You've always been very kind and helpful to me with your advice and I would never aim anything at you. x

[White Flower]

I will call this 1B on my list. Not only would I leave before having an affair, I wouldn't be able to have an affair while married for this very reason.

 

QUOTE]

Just be aware that people, like myself, preached exactly these words and never thought I would be as 'inhumane' as I have become. Actually, I believe I am more human now than ever. And still I would say, 'Never say never'.

 

I'm pretty sure that those who dwell so long and so hard to understand the concept of affairs will eventually embark on one. There is no better way to understand how it all works.

[White Flower]

I will call this 1B on my list. Not only would I leave before having an affair, I wouldn't be able to have an affair while married for this very reason.

 

Also, I didn't start this thread to bash OW. It's just a point of discussion. I saw the "human" idea mentioned on another thread and I wanted to comment, but knew it would be a TJ if I did. So, I started a new thread to post my opinion of what was said on the other thread.

 

Just be aware that people, like myself, preached exactly these words and never thought I would be as 'inhumane' as I have become. Actually, I believe I am more human now than ever. And still I would say, 'Never say never'.

 

I'm pretty sure that those who dwell so long and so hard to understand the concept of affairs will eventually embark on one. There is no better way to understand how it all works.

[White Flower]

Aw shucks, sorry for the double post!

[Ariadne]

Saying never is just ignorance.

[herenow]

Just be aware that people, like myself, preached exactly these words and never thought I would be as 'inhumane' as I have become. Actually, I believe I am more human now than ever. And still I would say, 'Never say never'.

 

I'm pretty sure that those who dwell so long and so hard to understand the concept of affairs will eventually embark on one. There is no better way to understand how it all works.

 

See here is the thing, I understand the concept. I still say that I would never willingly become engaged in something that could cause so much pain. I know myself better than that.

 

But, I respect your opinion and we will just have to agree to disagree on this one.

[herenow]

Saying never is just ignorance.

 

Saying never to having an affair requires a true sense of self. If that is ignorant, then I'm proud to be ignorant.

[White Flower]

See here is the thing, I understand the concept. I still say that I would never willingly become engaged in something that could cause so much pain. I know myself better than that.

 

But, I respect your opinion and we will just have to agree to disagree on this one.

I understood the concept well, too. I also avoided pain at great lengths in the past.

 

So many things can happen that propel you into a sort of auto-pilot state and suddenly you find yourself taking risks you wouldn't otherwise take. I hope you never find yourself in this situation, but if you do hold on tight! (and look me up!)

 

But yeah, we always have the option to agree to disagree.

[White Flower]

Saying never to having an affair requires a true sense of self. If that is ignorant, then I'm proud to be ignorant.

Hmmm, I didn't see this one. It saddens me that you of all people feel this way. I've never had a truer sense of self than I do now. I'm sure many of us OW do after all we learned during our As. It is definitely a learning experience which can make us stronger and truer to ourselves. Though it was painful, it was a path I was destined for. I know that now.

[herenow]

Hmmm, I didn't see this one. It saddens me that you of all people feel this way. I've never had a truer sense of self than I do now. I'm sure many of us OW do after all we learned during our As. It is definitely a learning experience which can make us stronger and truer to ourselves. Though it was painful, it was a path I was destined for. I know that now.

 

I'm not sure why it's so hard to believe that I know myself enough to know that I would never have an affair.

 

But it's time to go now so I hope you all have a great weekend!

[Virgo1982]

The BS is expected to be the epitome of perfection' date=' otherwise it is perfectly acceptable to some mere "human" to interfere in their marriage.[/quote']

 

OW believe whatever they are told.

[White Flower]

OW believe whatever they are told.

Not always.

[OpenBook]

So, another poster may consider affairs to be human, but my definition of being human means looking out for humanity as a whole and trying to do my best to help and not hurt others. I also don't think being human means you get what you what at the expense of others. I guess that is the difference between just being a human and being humane. JMO

 

So, you view your own H as "just human" but you regard yourself as The Humane One in the family? How is that working out for you?

 

You keep exploring these and other "cheating dynamic" issues here in the OM/OW forum, all the while drawing the conclusion, right off the bat, that you're better than people who cheat.

 

Why do you still persist with this, years after your H's affair? Isn't it time to let it go already?

[Virgo1982]

I'm not sure why it's so hard to believe that I know myself enough to know that I would never have an affair.

 

But it's time to go now so I hope you all have a great weekend!

 

 

WS said this on the day they married BS. So, why does it matter what is said? What is so compelling about someone saying they will never do something?

 

What about doing what you say you will do? Is that just as important? If so, there are plenty of people in the Marriage forum complaining about that one-WITHOUT INFIDELITY!!!!! Oh, but it does cross their minds quite often...