justforfun Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 I have seen so many posts about how the MM?MW stay for the kids. And it seems that the general consensus is that it's good for the kids. I have to disagree. When it came out that my Mother had been having an affair for at least half of my parents marriage I was devastated. I felt betrayed. My whole life after it started was a lie. I no longer knew what had been genuine and what had been about him. I played over situations and times in my head and realized that those were times when it had been about him. It was the most painful experience of my life to find out my childhood and my teens had all been a charade. I thought I grew up in a two parent home with relatively happy parents. But I didn't. I grew up in a dysfunctional home with lies and deceit permeating everything. The pain was so bad that even after my father had forgiven her I couldn't speak to her. It wasn't because I hated her. It was because it hurt so much to look at her. It was physical and mental pain. Even though we have a relationship now it will never be the same. How can it be? My Mother took the life I though I knew away from me. My Mother is the person that has hurt me more than anything or anyone else in this world. Link to post Share on other sites
OWoman Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 I have seen so many posts about how the MM?MW stay for the kids. And it seems that the general consensus is that it's good for the kids. Nope. My posts have always argued passionately that it's very BAD for the kids if parents stay together "for the sake of the kids". While I didn't feel deceived like you, I felt cheated out of the chance of the "happy childhood" that I saw my friends, whose parents were Dd, having. We all knew their R was broken. We hated having to be part of some farce that kept us all trapped until we were old enough to escape. I left my 1st M when my kids were small. They're great adults now, happy and fulfilled, and not once did they ever wish things to have been different on that front. Link to post Share on other sites
Jaspe_Loco Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 I can tell you from experience that staying just for the kids sake is not good. there were no affairs involving my parents, but older sisters wanted my dad to leave my mom because she was bat**** crazy. He was planning to do just that when my mom became pregnant with me. He decided to stay with my mom until I turned 18, but by that time my dad was nearly 60 and my my was suffering from "imaginary" health problems. I think she was trying to guilt dad into staying. He did just that. Now at almost 80 years old, my dad life revolves taking care of a very selfish woman and he has no life of is own. I know that he loves me, and he has never expressed any regret to his children, but he regrets not leaving. I know he does and I feel partially responsible for his unhappiness. Don't place that burden on your children. Link to post Share on other sites
mybrowneyedgirl Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 my husband, who is a product of a marriage exactly like that has the same feelings on it as you do. he says if we cant find a way to get back to what we used to be then we will divorce. he will not subject our kids to that situation, even though we can go day to day being happy, friendly, and have fun with them. but he always knew his parents werent in love and it killed him. a bit of me disagrees just a tad. i think its ok to stay for the kids with the intentions of working on the marriage and getting it back. now if you've exhausted all attempts at fixing things and then you stay for the kids with the mindset that your marriage will never be a loving one again then i think it needs to end. i wouldnt stay anywhere i wasnt happy just for the kids, because in order to be the best mother and role model for them i need to be happy too. Link to post Share on other sites
PhoenixRise Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 I don't think many people who post here are arguing that it is good for anybody to stay in a marriage just for the kids. I personally think it is a horrible burden on the children when/if the parents do this. I think there is a general belief among many who post here that THEIR MM/MW stayed in the marriage for the kids and no other reason. Link to post Share on other sites
stillafool Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 I don't feel that all of the people who say they are staying for the kids are just staying for the "kids". They are also staying for the house and all the other possessions they have accumulated throughout the marriage. Most people would have to downsize and they don't want to do that. Link to post Share on other sites
Author justforfun Posted November 19, 2009 Author Share Posted November 19, 2009 I re-read my post and I realize that I didn't explain myself properly. My parents enjoyed their marriage. We had a happy life. My parents were successful. We had the financial freedom to have some wonderful experiences. And home was generally happy. They went through bad patches when they argued, stropped and sulked. Nothing any different to my friends. My Mom never wanted to leave my Dad. She just had her affair on the side. What I was referring to are those situations where everything plods along nicely. The marriage carries along appearing to be a normal marriage. Except that there is this huge secret that only one person...the spouse having the affair..knows about. When it all came out...I felt how I said in my OP. My Mom didn't consider that she had done anything that would affect me. She comprehends that it did. But to this day I think she is still confused as to why it did affect me so much. Even more so than with my Dad. Link to post Share on other sites
ladydesigner Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 I really disagree with much of what is said here. While there are the FEW that say they are staying just for the KIDS, I believe the other majority it is for the KIDS but I believe the love is still there in the marriage. In my own marriage I know deep down inside that I love my H. He has had an A so have I. While the passion may not be there as it was in my A we still have a great sexual relationship, friendship, partnership, on many levels and it is these reasons why I would probably have never left my M. Kids want 2 loving parents. If the parents still have an amicable loving relationship it will work. My mother had two affairs and while I felt hurt by it at the time I found out, I completely understand now why she had the A and I do not place any blame on her, My father and her are still married, have found a way to love each other again, and have worked through all the past problems that her A had caused. They did that through hard work, counseling, and perseverance. I do not place any blame on my parents for staying together, even if it was for us. They didn't fight constantly. I think when the parents are not getting along, arguing all the time, then that is harmful to the kids. I know I would not have wanted a new stepmom or stepdad. Sometimes I think the alternative can be harmful. If two people can work it out I think it is worth it. A bad marriage is a bad marriage and should end for the kids, but if the parents still can get along and find that glimpse of love that they once had I truly believe a marriage can be repaired for the kids and for the couple. Link to post Share on other sites
Author justforfun Posted November 19, 2009 Author Share Posted November 19, 2009 I clarified my original post. My parents marriage broke up on D-Day..they tried to reconcile after they had gone through all the reasons why. But my Mother continued the affair. This wasn't the period of time that I felt all the hurt for. It was the time when I was growing up in my home where my Mom was one of those selfish ones that just want both. The marriage and the affair. I wrote this post because I read something in a similar thread. And I wanted to point out that a MM/MW being in a long term affair and also having a happy home life really does cause great hurt to the children involved. Link to post Share on other sites
stillafool Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 Are you saying that a MM, who is in love with his OW, will stay married to a woman he doesn't love because of possessions and the size of his house? Are you saying that his "lifestyle" is more important to him than being with a woman he loves? What kind of love is that? Why is it so hard to believe that people stay married because they love each other? BW are told so many times that the MM really loves the OW and he only stays for kids, finances,etc. Is it so impossible that the MM actually finds he loves his wife when he is at the brink of losing her? Herenow I feel the same way you do. However I am saying there are those people (who don't even have OW/OM waiting in the wings) who are in miserable marriages that don't just stay for the kids but also because they'd rather keep their lifestyles than start over and perhaps have to downsize. It sounds better when they say "I'm staying for the kids". I've always thought that most MM/MW were lying when they said they are just staying for the kids but they are in fact staying because they are still love with their spouse. Link to post Share on other sites
mybrowneyedgirl Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 Why is it so hard to believe that people stay married because they love each other? BW are told so many times that the MM really loves the OW and he only stays for kids, finances,etc. Is it so impossible that the MM actually finds he loves his wife when he is at the brink of losing her? herenow - i know my xmm loves his wife. we talked about it numerous time during the affair and after. it was never a question, as i too love my husband. but he is not in love with her. at least right now, and has often voiced reservations about if its ever possible to be in love with her again. he stayed because he made vows to stay with her. to try. he owes it to her to try. but the thing that makes him WANT to stay is their children. he doesnt veiw them as an obligation that maybe one day might get better. theres no room for question when it comes to the children. Link to post Share on other sites
herenow Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 I clarified my original post. My parents marriage broke up on D-Day..they tried to reconcile after they had gone through all the reasons why. But my Mother continued the affair. This wasn't the period of time that I felt all the hurt for. It was the time when I was growing up in my home where my Mom was one of those selfish ones that just want both. The marriage and the affair. I wrote this post because I read something in a similar thread. And I wanted to point out that a MM/MW being in a long term affair and also having a happy home life really does cause great hurt to the children involved. I totally agree with you. I think that this topic comes up most often when a OW claims that the only reason the MM stays with his wife is because of the kids. IMO, the MM tells the OW that because it makes him looks like a "good guy". What woman is going to blame such a "great father" for not leaving his marriage? Believing that the MM stays for his kids allows the OW to believe that he really does love her and the he has no love for his wife. I can see how it would be hard to accept that a MM was really just looking for a fix. As hard as it is for a BW to know that her H found his fix in an OW. Both OW and BW are dealing with men who are missing something in themselves. Until these men figure out and fix their own issues, they can't be "good" men to anyone, especially the kids. JMO. Link to post Share on other sites
herenow Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 Herenow I feel the same way you do. However I am saying there are those people (who don't even have OW/OM waiting in the wings) who are in miserable marriages that don't just stay for the kids but also because they'd rather keep their lifestyles than start over and perhaps have to downsize. It sounds better when they say "I'm staying for the kids". I've always thought that most MM/MW were lying when they said they are just staying for the kids but they are in fact staying because they are still love with their spouse. Yes, I can see what you are saying. That is a whole different situation, but still sad indeed. Link to post Share on other sites
herenow Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 herenow - i know my xmm loves his wife. we talked about it numerous time during the affair and after. it was never a question, as i too love my husband. but he is not in love with her. at least right now, and has often voiced reservations about if its ever possible to be in love with her again. he stayed because he made vows to stay with her. to try. he owes it to her to try. but the thing that makes him WANT to stay is their children. he doesnt veiw them as an obligation that maybe one day might get better. theres no room for question when it comes to the children. OK, but I don't buy the "love" and "in love" stuff. IMO, that is justification. It allows a person to have the one they "love" and also the one the are "in love" with. Cake eating at it's best. I still think a man who loves his children enough to stay married to someone the are not "in love" with, isn't the type of person who will have an affair knowing how much pain it could cause his family. Can't have it both ways. If his kids meant everything to him, there would be no OW. JMO Link to post Share on other sites
ladydesigner Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 Believing that the MM stays for his kids allows the OW to believe that he really does love her and the he has no love for his wife. I can see how it would be hard to accept that a MM was really just looking for a fix. As hard as it is for a BW to know that her H found his fix in an OW. Both OW and BW are dealing with men who are missing something in themselves. Until these men figure out and fix their own issues, they can't be "good" men to anyone, especially the kids. JMO. Herenow how true this statement is. Now looking back on my own A I realize that all it really was, is that a FIX. My xOM would never had made a great father or H. Link to post Share on other sites
angie2443 Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 No one stays just for the kids. The Wondering spouses often say this because it makes them look better. The truth is, they stay because the home provides them with a certain amount of confort. Link to post Share on other sites
herenow Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 No one stays just for the kids. The Wondering spouses often say this because it makes them look better. The truth is, they stay because the home provides them with a certain amount of confort. What do you mean by a "certain amount of comfort"? Wouldn't being with a person they truly love give a person more emotional "comfort" than living a lie? Link to post Share on other sites
Snowflower Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 herenow - i know my xmm loves his wife. we talked about it numerous time during the affair and after. it was never a question, as i too love my husband. but he is not in love with her. at least right now, and has often voiced reservations about if its ever possible to be in love with her again. he stayed because he made vows to stay with her. to try. he owes it to her to try. but the thing that makes him WANT to stay is their children. he doesnt veiw them as an obligation that maybe one day might get better. theres no room for question when it comes to the children. This is standard CS affair speak, straight out of the cheaters' playbook...they love their spouse but they are not in love with them. It's complete bullsh**, a play on semantics, which many cheaters love to use with their BS and the AP to justify their decision to be in an affair. They can't quite say to either person (either the BS or their AP) that they don't love their spouse but they can't exactly state that they love their spouse either or else why would they be having an affair? So hence, the semantics, the twisted words...just to keep everything going. The WS/MM (depending on the POV) either loves their spouse or they don't. There is no in between--the WS either loves their spouse and wants to remain married to them or they do not love them enough to remain married. Sorry, the "I love my spouse but..." is just a justification used by the MP to have an affair. If they are not actively taking steps leaving the marriage then it's just pretty words. Link to post Share on other sites
Author justforfun Posted November 19, 2009 Author Share Posted November 19, 2009 OK, but I don't buy the "love" and "in love" stuff. IMO, that is justification. It allows a person to have the one they "love" and also the one the are "in love" with. Cake eating at it's best. I still think a man who loves his children enough to stay married to someone the are not "in love" with, isn't the type of person who will have an affair knowing how much pain it could cause his family. Can't have it both ways. If his kids meant everything to him, there would be no OW. JMO That's more where I was going. My Mom had her cake and ate it! The result being that she caused me great pain. In her mind it was okay to be so deceitful because she was getting everything she wanted. But in the process she negated my whole childhood. (From the age of 10...DDay wasn't until I was 23!!) Link to post Share on other sites
herenow Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 (edited) This is standard CS affair speak, straight out of the cheaters' playbook...they love their spouse but they are not in love with them. It's complete bullsh**, a play on semantics, which many cheaters love to use with their BS and the AP to justify their decision to be in an affair. They can't quite say to either person (either the BS or their AP) that they don't love their spouse but they can't exactly state that they love their spouse either or else why would they be having an affair? So hence, the semantics, the twisted words...just to keep everything going. The WS/MM (depending on the POV) either loves their spouse or they don't. There is no in between--the WS either loves their spouse and wants to remain married to them or they do not love them enough to remain married. Sorry, the "I love my spouse but..." is just a justification used by the MP to have an affair. If they are not actively taking steps leaving the marriage then it's just pretty words. Most MM's actions prove this to be true. (sounds like a Jeopardy answer that can answer so many questions) Edited November 19, 2009 by herenow Link to post Share on other sites
greengoddess Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 That's more where I was going. My Mom had her cake and ate it! The result being that she caused me great pain. In her mind it was okay to be so deceitful because she was getting everything she wanted. But in the process she negated my whole childhood. (From the age of 10...DDay wasn't until I was 23!!) Wow how sad. Seriously. You have such pain from your mom's affair and yet there you are having an affair with a mm knowing the pain it causes children. Very sad. Link to post Share on other sites
greengoddess Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 You even managed to ensnare a mm who is just like your mom. Congratulations! I'm not too concerned about that though. I absolutely know he would never leave his wife. He has two small children who are his world and he would never ever consider breaking up the family unit. And he's been cheating on her for years so it's not like he hasn't maintained the family unit while being involved outside of the home. Link to post Share on other sites
Snowflower Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 Most MM's actions prove this to be true. (sounds like a Jeopardy answer that can answer so many questions) LOL! "I'll take cheating spouses for $500, Alex!" Link to post Share on other sites
herenow Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 You even managed to ensnare a mm who is just like your mom. Congratulations! And this thread may be part of her therapy. As strange as it may sound, children who grow up in families where infidelity has taken place are likely to repeat the behavior even if it has caused them pain in the past. Learned behavior. Again, kind of like growing up with an alcoholic. My H has an addictive personally. He is now working a 12 step program to help him deal with it. HIs mother had affairs and he swore he would never do the same to his wife. Guess what, he did, it's in his blood. He has made the choice to do something about it. Link to post Share on other sites
Spark1111 Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 Anyone who expects a long term relationship to continue with its early-stage hormonal rush, is an idiot and emotionally retarded, IMHO. The hormonal rush lasts about 1 to 3 years, and is known as "the honeymoon phase." Whenever someone says they love their spouse, but are not "in love" with their spouse, they sure don't know what mature love is all about. They are trying to recreate the adolescent fantasy of their youth, or the honeymoon phase with their spouse, and it ain't gonna happen. Only someone new can provide that heady lust-driven feeling. When that ends with the new partner, guess what? Your options are to find another new partner, or learn and grow and create a mature, intimate relationship with your SO. And if you are not sure how to do that, educate yourself. No offense to anyone in any relationship, but whenever I hear someone loves there SO, but is no longer "in love" with them, I think, Oh boy...here comes the days of the high school cafeteria again! Link to post Share on other sites
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