Fallen Angel

[mybrowneyedgirl]

Hi. I would like to formally apologize for a comment I made in a post. You had called yourself a negative name I think it was ugly w* or something with the same last word. Anyway, I jokingly replied using the same term.

 

You and I always seem to post similarly, I thought that my sarcasm would have been obvious, but in hindsight I guess it wasnt and so I would like to tell you that I am truly sorry and never meant those words to be serious.

 

It was in poor taste to say such words, but in the post we were all calling ourselves those names and going back and forth.

 

I cant PM or else this would be sent to your personally. i've been flagged and my posts will be screened before submission so sorry in the delay in getting this to you.

 

Again, not intentional, poor choice of words on my part. I'm terribly sorry if Ive caused you additional pain.

 

Thanks! BEG

[Fallen Angel]

Hi. I would like to formally apologize for a comment I made in a post. You had called yourself a negative name I think it was ugly w* or something with the same last word. Anyway, I jokingly replied using the same term.

 

You and I always seem to post similarly, I thought that my sarcasm would have been obvious, but in hindsight I guess it wasnt and so I would like to tell you that I am truly sorry and never meant those words to be serious.

 

It was in poor taste to say such words, but in the post we were all calling ourselves those names and going back and forth.

 

I cant PM or else this would be sent to your personally. i've been flagged and my posts will be screened before submission so sorry in the delay in getting this to you.

 

Again, not intentional, poor choice of words on my part. I'm terribly sorry if Ive caused you additional pain.

 

Thanks! BEG

 

OH BEG, I am so sorry. I NEVER took it as though you were attacking me.. and I did not report it, because we were just joking back and forth and I was calling myself a bitter *hor*.... ugh. I am so sorry that you got flagged for that.. i went back to look and it seems my posts were removed as well, but I was not flagged form them, perhaps because the only person I called that was myself?

 

Again, i am so sorry that happened to you.. I would ask the mods to remove your flag, but as i tried to open a conversation with them about something I got flagged for and never got a response from 6 attempts, i don't know if it will do any good. Just watch your Ps and Qs for a few days and the points will expire. I am really sorry.

[mybrowneyedgirl]

Thanks! Just didnt want to hurt any feelings.

[NowhereToHide]

hmmm... it appears someone is on a flagging rampage as of late. I, too, got flagged for something.

 

You guys are too awesome to get flagged!

[Fallen Angel]

hmmm... it appears someone is on a flagging rampage as of late. I, too, got flagged for something.

 

You guys are too awesome to get flagged!

 

I got flagged for telling a regular poster to ignore someone who started a thread simply asking where she was. Turns out the OP who started the thread was a long time "stalker", so I told the regular poster, who I liked very much, that she was better than that and we wouldn't care what the "stalker" said about her. *shrug*

 

Apparently, it was THREAD JACKING as the original post was nothing but calling out the long time poster in an attempt to pick a fight, and I didn't join in the fight? (( INSERT EXTREMELY CONFUSED LOOK HERE)) *the confused smiley isn't as confused looking as I felt about that one*

 

Am I gonna get flagged for publicly talking about what I got flagged for?? (God, I hope not!)

[NowhereToHide]

I got flagged for telling a regular poster to ignore someone who started a thread simply asking where she was. Turns out the OP who started the thread was a long time "stalker", so I told the regular poster, who I liked very much, that she was better than that and we wouldn't care what the "stalker" said about her. *shrug*

 

Apparently, it was THREAD JACKING as the original post was nothing but calling out the long time poster in an attempt to pick a fight, and I didn't join in the fight? (( INSERT EXTREMELY CONFUSED LOOK HERE)) *the confused smiley isn't as confused looking as I felt about that one*

 

Am I gonna get flagged for publicly talking about what I got flagged for?? (God, I hope not!)

 

 

I know. I think Tony has had his hands full. There has been a lot of angry posts recently. I think it is interesting, though, that some of us are getting "reported" for relatively tame posts. It sometimes feels as though if someone doesn't like your response, they just hit that "alert us" button instead of responding.

 

I'm glad you're still here!

[Fallen Angel]

 

I know. I think Tony has had his hands full. There has been a lot of angry posts recently. I think it is interesting, though, that some of us are getting "reported" for relatively tame posts. It sometimes feels as though if someone doesn't like your response, they just hit that "alert us" button instead of responding.

 

I'm glad you're still here!

 

I am not going anywhere just yet. This place helps keep me grounded. I am still deciding what I really want to do, what I need, and where my life is headed... here is a much better place for me to work that out than stuck alone in my head. My own brain is often the scariest place for me to be.

 

I don't mind people reporting me if they feel they need to, I just wish the mods would open a line of communication so that you have a chance to appeal the decisions, because a single post isolated may seem off topic, and yet in the context of the whole thread and the direction it shifted, it may have been kept very much with the flow of things.. but, I guess that is why I am not a mod. They have to stick to the rules, black and white, I live very much in a grey world.

[DiDi123]

Hi FA,

Found you! Glad you seem better. Have you heard from MM? You mentioned you had children in another post- boys? girls? are they young?

I'd like to ask you a few questions if that's ok? Does your family know about your MM? Do they give you a hard time? You "Dear Him" letter was heart-renching to read. I cried for you. My MM does things around the house for me like yours and sometimes has only a few hours also, and like you we don't just jump into bed everytime he comes over. Its so nice to have someone there to help out, isn't it?

 

I can never have children so besides my 3 cats I am all alone at night and in the morning which I really don't like and I most fear being alone forever. Everyone thinks I have all my $hit together because I hide my depression and anxiety from everyone.

 

And you are right about this forum being a fabulous place to see things from different perspectives.

 

Where are you tonight in your mind? Are you in a small place of peace so you can relax for a few moments?

[Fallen Angel]

Hi FA,

Found you! Glad you seem better. Have you heard from MM? You mentioned you had children in another post- boys? girls? are they young?

I'd like to ask you a few questions if that's ok? Does your family know about your MM? Do they give you a hard time? You "Dear Him" letter was heart-renching to read. I cried for you. My MM does things around the house for me like yours and sometimes has only a few hours also, and like you we don't just jump into bed everytime he comes over. Its so nice to have someone there to help out, isn't it?

 

I can never have children so besides my 3 cats I am all alone at night and in the morning which I really don't like and I most fear being alone forever. Everyone thinks I have all my $hit together because I hide my depression and anxiety from everyone.

 

And you are right about this forum being a fabulous place to see things from different perspectives.

 

Where are you tonight in your mind? Are you in a small place of peace so you can relax for a few moments?

 

DiDi,

I have spoken with him several times. He really did not want to read the letter, first because he thought it was just the same crap again.. where I say "okay this is it, I am breaking it off".. and never explain why, and mostly before it was because he had simply been away too long, and I was crying out for more of his time. (Which honestly was unfair because it was when he was working and had NO control over it... being 2 states away)

 

Then he didn't want to read it because he realized it was much more than that this time.

 

We have talked a bit about it, but I feel that we need to really have time to sit down and talk, not tear each other up in the minutes before and after work when we don't really have enought time to get into it ALL. So, I have decided to wait for that. It was my decision, not his. I can not go to work with makeup smeared down my face and big puffy eyes, so for now it has been mostly small talk, and uncomfortable silences between us. I will update my LS family after we talk and make decisions.

 

Yes, I do have 3 living children. I have one boy, and two girls ranging in age from 16 to 5 (will be six in a 2 weeks). They are all five years apart.

 

My family does know about my MM, but other than my children none of them have met him. My father will be coming to visit me soon, and may meet MM at that time. My sister lives quite far and is not likely to visit soon, so chances are slim they will meet. My father, my sister and my grandmother are the only family I have any contact with. They all know about the details of my relationship, and they all accept it, as long as it makes me happy. They do not think less of me for it. I do not have contact with my mother, though I am sure she would not be as accepting of it as the rest of my family, even though she herself was an OW for over 10 years, until her MM divorced and married her.

 

It is nice to have help around the house for what I consider "man things", but I make sure that as MM is fixing things my son is paying attention so that the next time I do not need MM to do it. (though he appears to enjoy doing man tasks for me.)

 

Your depression and anxiety can eat you alive. I would suggest that you seek a counselor so that you at least have someone you can be wholey honest with about your situation. It is easier to speak to someone than to keep it bottled up, and you need to get your mind healthy so that you can make good decisions for yourself. I am seeing a counselor soon. I may decide to go back on an antidepressant I took for awhile while I was going through the separation and divorce from my xH. It seemed to have helped, but then I got to a point of feeling "better" and so quit taking it. Maybe it is time to rethink that choice.

 

I am in a place of peace tonight. I have come to some decisions about my future, and until MM and I sit down and talk about my choices, there is not much else to do, so I am finding some peaceful moments. (Now if the kids would have peaceful moments at the same time, I might actually get to enjoy my peaceful moments ) But tonight, I am content with me. And that is a good place for me to be emotionally.

 

Thank You so much for your concern. I look forward to getting to know you. ((HUGS))

Edited October 31, 2009 by Fallen Angel

[DiDi123]

Hi FA,

Glad you feel somewhat better. Time to talk about things is so important. It seems as though your MM knows things have to change for you with respect to your relationship with him.

I have thought about the counseling but am not sure yet if I want to "go there". I suppose I am in a state of denial, that somehow this will all "magically" work out. Maybe I am living in a fantasy world.

He is in Florida golfing for another week with one of his friends. I was supposed to join him there this week to golf, but emergency surgery on September 9th prevented me. Unfortunately I have to have a total abdominal hysterectomy and I am just at the end of medical leave from work. Through all of this he has been nothing but fabulous. My folks live a town away and they have met him several times and really like him - they however do not know he is married. He has tremendous guilt over knowing how awful it would be if they found out because he and my Dad get along really well (they both have boats). He knows eventually they will know, but would rather been in a situation of saying he's separated or in the process of divorcing. This is fine with me for the time being. I get the sense that when he returns if a major move doesn't happen he knows deep down I can't continue. He realizes how unfair this situation is to me and has told me that if I decide to walk away he would completely understand because his intention is to not hurt me. We have discussed at length how he knows how hurt I am and deep down does know that I will not continue in this relationship if a move is not made. The Holidays are coming up and it is going to be a bit strange if he cannot come to any family gatherings. He knows things are becoming more difficult for me to keep lying to my family. He is scheduled to come home on Friday afternoon but my parents think he is not coming home until the 15th, because my niece's bat-mitzvah is on the 14th and with him not legally separated yet or in the process of divorce he said he would feel extremely awkward coming to such a large family event. It sucks because YET again I have to go somewhere alone without him by my side. He did something that your MM did prior to travel- he told W that his flight was on Wednesday the 21st so he could be with me the for the day & night prior to his actually leaving the 22nd. He planned to tell her his wasn't returning until the 7th, but he has to go to a wedding on the 7th of the daughter of a friend that "they" have been friends with for over 25 years. He is well aware that I am pretty disgusted about that. I came right out and told him- "You are going to a wedding with her? as a couple?" his response was "what am I supposed to do- these are close and old friends of mine I can't just diss them". I don't think he's all that happy about it, but what can I do at this point? I also have told him that it really pisses me off that you'd accompany her somehwere but won't go to my niece's bat-mitzvah with me the week prior. When he flies in he wants to come straight here to see me for a little while. His flight comes in at 2 or so and will probably look to stay until 6 or so as that seems to be the magical time she would probably expect him to be home. I am on the fence about wanting to him to come by or not. I could very easily leave work early because I have the ok to work part-time next week and I could work that situation to see him Friday afternoon. I start back to work on Monday which I think is going to be good for me. I have been off for about 7 weeks and due to not being "out and about" has given me way too much time to think and dwell over the situation. Besides my emotions have been running high due to the surgery/hormones, etc. He has been absolutely wonderful during all this. I ran out of sick days so he has financially helped me get through the last 3 weeks, which really came as a surprise to me because I wasn't expecting it. He also just paid $600 for brakes on my car- another surprise. He wants me to be safe, that's why he did it he told me.

I met him golfing on July 10th and he was right upfront about being married- but referred to W as his "roommate". He said he hasn't had sex with her in over 3 years and the prior 10 years to that only about once or twice a year and even when that happened there was nothing there and he felt as if she was doing him a favor and it felt like a chore. They go days sometimes without speaking and have very different schedules & pretty much live separate lives. He told me they have discussed divorce about 10 years ago but nothing really came of it but he has known for a long time that he envisioned "never growing old with her". He tells me that I have opened his eyes to how life can be happy with another person and that the closeness we share he never shared with her in the 33 years they have been married. They married young and I think they have grown apart. I have told him that maybe he should try to work things out, but he has told me that he is past that and can't see being able to just "turn it on" again with her. He says that he isn't attracted to her at all. He hasn't lied to me about anything yet so I have no reason not to believe him. I don't think he is capable of keeping up this dual life much longer, I know he stresses about it. He tells me that he knows it hurts me (and him) when he has to leave me and then he goes home and then thinks of nothing but me. He asked me about 2 months ago when we almost broke it off if I could be patient with him for a few months because we had just met until he developed a plan of how he was going to proceed. I told him if he leaves his marriage it has to be because he isn't happy with that situation- not because of me.

On another note I am going to join the gym again- I think today I will go and sign up. I think once I start working out again I'll feel better. I have tried not to make myself too available to him throughout our relationship (with the exception of the last 7 weeks- because I was on medical leave- so where was I going? I could barely walk at first! So I was pretty much a mess and he was right there through all of it- does that mean something?) I just got the ok to start driving again so that's been good. With being able to drive again at least I am not so dependent on him.

We have been very open with one another about our needs and expectations. Compatibility and doing things together is very important to both of us. His W is not athletic and they do nothing together. She doesn't like to golf, kayak, go boating or anything with him. I understand that this may all blow up in my face and he may decide to actually continue living in this farce of a marriage (his words not mine)- and I have told him if he decides to do that, fine. But I will not wait forever and that I will stay for as long as I can, but when it becomes too much for me I'm breaking it off. Will that be easy? No, but I can't see myself realistically spending all this energy on someone with no positive outcome for me. It's already starting to become to much for me and I think he is very much aware of that. I hate being in this holding pattern with him. I am however going to keep myself as busy as possible and look forward to his coming home Friday. What do you think I should do about seeing him on Friday? I think that I will agree to see him because I do miss him and see what he has to say and try to gauge where his is emotionally. But on the other hand I think maybe no I shouldn't see him and see how he handles that. This is the thing I don't want to start any type of game playing with him or what could be perceived as manipulating him. I miss him and want to see him so I think I should. But the other side of me says to be VERY careful. If there are any MM reading this and are in a similar situation I would love to hear their input. Maybe I should have started a new thread with this question, lol. I'm new here as you know so I am trying to figure out what I should do. They have no children and her parents are deceased so there are no ties involved with her family and she doesn't get along with his family. He has told his close friends about me as well as his brother and from what he tells me they are happy for him. I suspect they know how miserable he has been for the last 10 years. One of the most wonderful things about him is we click really well. We have a very strong emotional bond between us. I think in the beginning he was "blinded" by my attention- which really took no effort on my part- I was just me with him. Just nice, pleasant, talkative, caring, appreciative of everything he did (and I still am this way) because I really care about him and it's very easy and comfortable for us around each other. He talks about that a lot. About how well we fit together in so many ways.

So now for a reality check- if I am all these wonderful things why hasn't he made a move yet? Or will he do as he says and make a move in the next month or so?

 

I'm sorry for the long post- was not my intention.

I also have seemed to turn "your" post into mine! SORRY!!!!

Should I copy and paste this into a new thread?

((HUGS)) and thank you for listening

[Fallen Angel]

DiDi,

 

I am glad you are here. I know how hard this all is and it is very helpful to be able to talk through your emotions.

 

In my opinion you should see him on friday if that is what you want to do. i am not one to tell anyone any differently. A lot of people have pushed NC at me, and I know they do it with the best of intentions. but if I do it before I am ready, then it will feel like a lie and a manipulation instead of a real decision on my part. And the last thing I want to do is play games. If i know that I am not ready to go NC there is no point in me attempting it. If I try it and fail, that will give him even more power, something he has enough of already. *shrug*

 

So for now we have had no physical contact in about four weeks. But have had phone contact daily. He will be here sometime this coming week, and we will sit down and talk, and decide what comes next. The kindest thing he could do is tell me that he doesn't love me, but I know those are words I will never hear from him. I will take this one step at a time, as much as my heart will allow, and will not beat myself up because i am simply not ready to jump in the "disconnect" pool with both feet yet.

 

Do whatever you think is best for YOU at this point. But listen to people here who have been where we have been, there is a lot to be learned from them.

 

Whatever you decide, know that I am here for you, and wishing you happiness and love. ((HUGS)) *I almost typed my name here..lol.. getting this personal with people and not using my name feels odd... but it is supposed to be anonymous.. hmmm.. anyway.. bye for now*

[DiDi123]

Hi- thank you for your help. Right now I'm hurt, and pissed and crying. I haven't heard from him in 2 days. I know where he is and what he's doing (playing golf with friends in Florida- where I should have been had it not be for the surgery). Could I call him? yes. Will I? no. I'm just not calling him. I want him to miss me and want to talk to me and he isn't doing that so now that's all I'm thinking about and its driving me crazy! Don't men realize we need communication and reassurance? Well, I do anyway. And he knows my hormones are a mess and I haven't been myself. I think he's being insensitive by purposely not calling me. Maybe I'm being a baby about all this but right now I don't care. At home he can't call at night because of W- but he's in Florida with his friends and has the freedom to reach out whenever he wants and yet he doesn't call me everyday? I tried to tease him Thursday night when he called and said whose this? and he laughed. I asked him if he thinks about me and misses me and he was very laid back and said "Di come on honey"- of course, then proceeded to tell me about these sunglasses he got for himself that help to see the gold ball more clearly in the air and said he was going to get me a pair also. Maybe I am just over emotional tonight? I know I don't feel myself with my hormones and all. This is the first time I am feeling like this in this relationship with him. I feel like we are losing our emotional bond. How can he just not call me? UGH! I sound like a pathetic idiot. And I know I'm cranky right now- so please excuse me.

How do you go for 4 weeks without seeing him? Is that hard for you? Are you worried about how things are going to go when you see him?

If the phone rang now and it was him I'm so mad that I don't even want to talk to him now. I don't think I even want to talk to him tomorrow. Maybe I am just in a really bad place tonight? Do you ever feel like this? I am feeling SO insecure. How can I get out of this dark hole I seem to be in?

THank you for listening. I wonder when I will be able to do private messages...there are so many other things I want to ask you about.

[Fallen Angel]

Hi- thank you for your help. Right now I'm hurt, and pissed and crying. I haven't heard from him in 2 days. I know where he is and what he's doing (playing golf with friends in Florida- where I should have been had it not be for the surgery). Topic #1.) Could I call him? yes. Will I? no. I'm just not calling him. I want him to miss me and want to talk to me and he isn't doing that so now that's all I'm thinking about and its driving me crazy! Don't men realize we need communication and reassurance? Well, I do anyway. And he knows my hormones are a mess and I haven't been myself. I think he's being insensitive by purposely not calling me. Maybe I'm being a baby about all this but right now I don't care. At home he can't call at night because of W- but he's in Florida with his friends and has the freedom to reach out whenever he wants and yet he doesn't call me everyday? I tried to tease him Thursday night when he called and said whose this? and he laughed. I asked him if he thinks about me and misses me and he was very laid back and said "Di come on honey"- of course, then proceeded to tell me about these sunglasses he got for himself that help to see the gold ball more clearly in the air and said he was going to get me a pair also. Maybe I am just over emotional tonight? I know I don't feel myself with my hormones and all. This is the first time I am feeling like this in this relationship with him. I feel like we are losing our emotional bond. How can he just not call me? UGH! I sound like a pathetic idiot. And I know I'm cranky right now- so please excuse me.

Topic #2.) How do you go for 4 weeks without seeing him? Is that hard for you? Are you worried about how things are going to go when you see him?

If the phone rang now and it was him I'm so mad that I don't even want to talk to him now. I don't think I even want to talk to him tomorrow. Maybe I am just in a really bad place tonight? Topic #3.) Do you ever feel like this? I am feeling SO insecure. How can I get out of this dark hole I seem to be in?

THank you for listening. I wonder when I will be able to do private messages...there are so many other things I want to ask you about.

 

Topic #1.) My personal opinion is if you want to call him, and the only reason you are not calling is because you are trying to manipulate his feelings, then you are making a mistake. You ask if he knows you need reassurance, and my answer is probably not. Men and women think very differently here. When a woman tells a man that she loves him, he believes her, and feels assured of that unless and until she tells him differently, he doesn't need constant reassurances. He accepts it as truth and just simply doesn't need to hear it all of the time to keep believeing it.

 

Most women on the other hand, me included, need constant reassurance. Igf we don't hear "I love you" in every conversation (especially in an affair where we feel our relationship is tenuous at best) we start to question if we have done something to make them quit loving us.

 

Men do not generally understand this need for constant reassurance unless you tell them. I think you need to tell him what you need. Expecting him to read your mind is unfair. I have told my MM that hearing him speak his feelings is important to me, as I am not a mind reader, and I can't just assume how he is feeling about me. I didn't say, "I need to hear you say you love me everyday.", just that I needed to hear HIS FEELINGS spoken everyday. So that is what I now get from him.

 

I am just saying, don't expect him to know what you need, be upfront with him, and you may just get what you need.

 

Topic #2.) Going so long without seeing him is very difficult. I love him. I miss him. But our connection has always been much more emotional than physical, and it is in the emotional part of our affair that we both get most from each other. The physical aspects of our relationship are just an added bonus. Our affair is an affair of the heart not just the body, so while it is hard, being without the physical connection is the easy part.

 

 

I am not worried per se about how things will go when we talk. We will discuss what the options are, and what I am willing to do and not, and what he is willing to do and not. There is no point in worrying myself to death over it. What will be is what is meant to be. I have faith that whatever happens will be what is supposed to happen, and that may include ending our relationship altogether. It will be sad, and no doubt very painfull, but at least I will have closure.

 

Regardless of how it turns out, I am blessed to have known him. I am blessed to have shared a part of my life with him, and that he shared a part of his life with me. I will come out of this a better person than I went into it as, simply because he has taught me that I am capable of truly loving someone, and that I am capable of being loved. And that is a lesson I had not had prior to him entering my life.

 

Topic #3.) Yes, I do feel like that sometimes. It is hard not to have feelings of insecurity in an affair because the affair dynamic is not set up so that you have any reason to feel secure. Your position as OW is one that lends itself to feelings of insecurity because his position of MM means he can not OFFER YOU ANY REAL RELATIONSHIP COMMITMENT. The only thing that can change that is if he were to become divorced and be free to offer you exclusivity.

 

My Mm has offered me what I call "conditional exclusivity" which means that he has promised that there will never be another OW. It is almost a joke, but that is what most OWs accept as commitment from their MMs. That is as much commitment that they can offer us as long as they remain in their marriages. You have to decide if that is something you can live with. If you can't then your time as an OW is limited. But until/unless he is free of his commitments to someone else, he can not make any more of a commitment to you.

 

 

I am sorry that you are feeling so poorly tonight. I hope that tomorrow is a better day for you. ((HUGS))