So lost

[justwantlove]

This is my first post here, i only read through some of the post breifly, but i really think that you guys can help and be of support.

My MM was separated when we meet. He felt that he did everything possible to make the marriage work and that since he put in his 100% there wasn't anything he could do to make his marriage work.

We fell in love over 11 months and everything was completely perfect, not just the illusion of perfect. We make each other completely happy and the love is true and real.

But she quit drinking, and that was her problem. Now that shes putting in the effort she wasnt putting in, he felt that he had an obligation to try a little more. Especially since they have kids together. It was really hard for him to move back there. He says when it comes just to love he'd choose me in a heartbeat but there's his kids, not to mention alimony and child support, him possible loosing his house. The stresses of divorce. He tells me he's not committed to her and at times they cant even be in the same room together.

Ive tried to have nc, but it doesnt work. If im not contacting him he contacts me. I dont want to be without him but at the same time i dont want to be the other woman.

I love him to death and i cant keep myself away, but the guilt i have for being here is hard to deal with.

He tells me he wants me and loves me. He doesnt want to loose me while he works everything out, and he makes it seem like we will be together. He tells me that he sees us getting through this and us being perfect later.

[whichwayisup]

Ouch.. It sounds like he's torn on what to do. BUT, unfortunately, I believe he's kind of omitting various truths from you.. To say that he isn't committed to making the marriage work, or to her, not being able to be in the same room together may not be exactly true, especially since he DID go back.. It was his choice to, and obviously he felt she deserves another chance because she quit drinking.

 

He should not be making ANY promises, or giving you hope. That's wrong of him. It's not fair to you, nor to his wife..He's fence sitting.

 

It's now up to you to be strong and walk away. If you don't want to be the OW, then tell him to call you WHEN they are divorced, not if he leaves her again and they separate. He can't fix things with you in the picture, so hanging on to you is very selfish of him.

 

One thing, if he truly loved you and wanted to be with you, he would not have gone back home..Sorry.

[sadintexas]

He tells me he wants me and loves me. He doesnt want to loose me while he works everything out, and he makes it seem like we will be together. He tells me that he sees us getting through this and us being perfect later.

 

And exactly what part of you deserves something later rather than now? Do you not think you are as valuable as his W? Because he would not risk losing the love of his life to pay good duty to her for not drinking.

 

See, he was already in the position where he was going to have to pay CS, alimony and possibly lose his house when he was separated on the road to divorce.

 

The only thing that has changed is that he sees hope in the M again since she's playing nicer. Her not drinking has made the situation tolerable again, so back he goes. What his words and actions tell me is that now he has hope of tolerating her (if he's not really loving her, who knows) and being able to keep all his money and his kids, BUT still have you on the side to supply the rest.

 

It's TOTALLY SELFISH for him to give her hope and keep you hanging on.

 

"Later" is the dangling carrot.

[Athena]

I love him to death and i cant keep myself away, but the guilt i have for being here is hard to deal with.

 

Look at what you wrote here? You are Damaging Yourself!

No man is worth you damaging yourself for... you should live in accordance with your conscience, so that you have integrity, and feel proud of who you are, and what you do.

 

Drop that married man, he is hurting you in the worst way -- the basis of who you are.

[whichwayisup]

Honestly, he had NO business allowing himself to get involved with you during his separation.. Separation means nothing unless a planned divorce is actually IN the works and papers have been filed. That is truly separated.. Sadly, this guy may have passed himself off as truly separated, but his actions speak otherwise.. Sorry that you're hurting..

 

Let me ask, while he was separated, did he see/talk to his wife often? They have kids, did they share custody?

[justwantlove]

Thank you all for all your replies so far!

 

He did talk to his wife. When ever i was around they were usually arguing, or she was asking for money. He took his kids every weekend.

About 5 month into our relationship he couldnt afford having two houses. She's never worked so he had to pay for both housesholds. he was gonna move back with her into a seperate room, where he says he's still staying now. But when i told him i wouldnt be around he decided to move with his parents who live an hour away. He started seeing his kids less and i know after 6 months this took a toll on him.

[jwi71]

JWL...

 

So why did he move back again?

Kids?

Money?

His W changed?

 

HE went back because he WANTED to give HIS WIFE another chance. Has nothing to do with the kids or money or any bullshyte...HER.

 

Your words...not mine. Hold on to that. Remember it. Because what does that really say?

 

The potential her is better than you.

 

Its that simple. You are now the option...the fallback plane...the just in case...

 

Don't you deserve better?

 

Find a man who places YOU on a pedestal...and it ain't him.

[mybrowneyedgirl]

what about men staying because they feel guilty about the affair and think that they should stay because its the right thing to do. like theyre not happy, but they made that commitment and so theyre trying to do the right thing? is this still a BS excuse and they want the wife or is it maybe a confused man who messed up by having an A and is trying to do right?

[jwi71]

what about men staying because they feel guilty about the affair and think that they should stay because its the right thing to do. like theyre not happy, but they made that commitment and so theyre trying to do the right thing? is this still a BS excuse and they want the wife or is it maybe a confused man who messed up by having an A and is trying to do right?

 

It says the guilt for HER is stronger than the love for YOU.

 

And...uh, what guilt? Really...she is a lazy, alcoholic whose sole support is her H. He feels guilty about what? He can;t cure her...only she can. The best thing would be for him to TAKE the kids and fight for custody based on what you write. And where does she get the money to buy all this alcohol from anyway?

 

I'm afraid you don't know the whole story here.

 

Think about it like this.

 

You are a judge.

Before stands a man who can prove his W cannot support herself financially, cannot support the children (no money, alcoholic, etc), and is an all-around loser. OK, maybe not loser but you see where I'm going. Now take all he has said...does it make sense that HE doesn't get the kids?

 

Exactly. It doesn't make sense to me either.

 

In the US...the courts have become VERY fair...my opinion and my experience.

[fooled once]

This is my first post here, i only read through some of the post breifly, but i really think that you guys can help and be of support.

My MM was separated when we meet. He felt that he did everything possible to make the marriage work and that since he put in his 100% there wasn't anything he could do to make his marriage work.

We fell in love over 11 months and everything was completely perfect, not just the illusion of perfect. We make each other completely happy and the love is true and real.

But she quit drinking, and that was her problem. Now that shes putting in the effort she wasnt putting in, he felt that he had an obligation to try a little more. Especially since they have kids together. It was really hard for him to move back there. He says when it comes just to love he'd choose me in a heartbeat but there's his kids, not to mention alimony and child support, him possible loosing his house. The stresses of divorce. He tells me he's not committed to her and at times they cant even be in the same room together.

Ive tried to have nc, but it doesnt work. If im not contacting him he contacts me. I dont want to be without him but at the same time i dont want to be the other woman.

I love him to death and i cant keep myself away, but the guilt i have for being here is hard to deal with.

He tells me he wants me and loves me. He doesnt want to loose me while he works everything out, and he makes it seem like we will be together. He tells me that he sees us getting through this and us being perfect later.

 

If he planned on leaving to begin with, alimony and child support are part of the deal. Happens with all divorces (not necessarily the alimony). You say she hasn't worked -- could be because as a couple, when they chose to have kids, they decided she would be a stay at home mom. You don't know why she doesn't work; but obviously, he knew about it and was okay with it.

 

Sounds like he really does want to work on his marriage.

 

I truly think you need to let go of him; unless you are okay with always being the OW?

[2sure]

He left his children with his wife while she still had a drinking problem. He had the same child support and financial obligations to pay when he initially left as he has now. So , all of that is blatant crap. The only thing different now is that his wife quit drinking. Both he and she have had a reality check. Now, he wants it all - the wife, the family, the house, and a girlfriend on the side. Time for your reality check.

[Montclair0011]

I went through something like this and I feel for you. It's just impossible to think that they would go back to such a toxic situation, but they do. They do it because they are weak and it's the easiest thing and is approved by society and it makes the kids happier and saves money.

 

Also, they know how to survive in a bad relationship with a crazy wife. What they don't know is if they can be brave enough to loose all that money (including future retirement and college savings), possibly mess up their relationship with the kids (and not see them much), and end up alone. They are also not sure it's going to work out with the new person, because they know they don't have a great track record in the past and history often repeats itself. They don't know if they have it in them to make a new relationship work (they know all too well how love can fade).

 

Sometimes the kids are used to plead for the husband's return and it's difficult for them to refuse. In my case the wife did a 180 degree turn around and promised to be nice and give up her boyfriend, etc. The child was begging the father to please come back because "Mom is going to be nice now. You have to give Mom another chance." It's difficult to explain to children that people don't usually change.

 

Anyway, I'm sorry this is happening to you and I understand how crappy it is to suddenly go from having a boyfriend to being an OW overnight. Suddenly you are in a whole different relationship that you never signed up for and people can get very judgmental which only adds to the pain. Also, everyone tells you that the guy never loved you and is just using you, etc. It's a whole extra set of accusations and complications from a regular boy breaks up with girl scenario. The pain combined with guilt and embarrassment is just overwhelming (at least it was for me).

 

I'd advise you to do NC, which you can find lots of information about on this website. It's the only acceptable response, although it will not ease your misery much. If you stay in contact, I doubt he will ever leave and you will get angry and messed up and very, very lonely. If you do NC, there is a chance that he will leave when his wife returns to her previous state, as surely she will. But he might not. Mine just resigned himself to living with a shew who had another guy on the side. He admitted he was too spineless to leave and felt he needed to be there for the child.

[pkn06002]

What is this reality check crap???

 

He may or may not be going back for his wife, only he knows that. But interesting how some want to immediately jump to that assumption.

 

Maybe he read where kids are better in a family unit instead of two divorced parents. Maybe he talked to someone and found out how much he would actually have to pay out if divorced. Which BTW can be different then when you just separate. From the description that justwantlove is giving this is about his kids NOT is wife.

 

For him to get custody are you really sure jwi71 that this OM has proof that the courts would accept? I have a friend who got divorced and HAD documents that showed his wife was an unfit mother. Well guess what they REJECTED all of his claims and the best he could do was joint custody.

 

Short and long of it justwantlove is this, you need to walk away. Do you want to be the backup plan? Do you want to put your life on hold HOPING that he leaves is wife? He has already shown he has other priorities in life that are stronger than his love for you. So I would write this off as a lost cause and move on.

 

Yes it will suck but YOU need to walk away for yourself. I will agree with 2sure he does wants it all on his terms. Are those terms you are willing to live with, sounds like a no.

[whichwayisup]

If she really did have a drinking problem, why did he allow her full custody of the kids? I find it kind of odd that he would leave them behind, knowing full well she has a drinking problem..

[MistyK]

Also, they know how to survive in a bad relationship with a crazy wife. What they don't know is if they can be brave enough to loose all that money (including future retirement and college savings), possibly mess up their relationship with the kids (and not see them much), and end up alone. They are also not sure it's going to work out with the new person, because they know they don't have a great track record in the past and history often repeats itself. They don't know if they have it in them to make a new relationship work (they know all too well how love can fade).

 

I think this is true in many cases, and the unfortunate reality is that it's probably a battle you can't win. Even if he leaves her again, how will you ever trust that he won't do it again. They obviously have unfinished business and it's terrible of him to ask you to wait around while he supposedly sorts it out. If the arrangement truly is as he says - they're still seperated then i guess his W knows about you an you can call the house? I'm guessing no. This guy's being incredibly selfish and having it bith ways at your expense. He may love you with all his heart, but right now he's got way too much going on to have your best interests at heart, so you have to look out for yourself.

 

I tend to agree that NC is probably the best way to go. He'll respect you more for it in the end and if he comes back to you, you'll know he's yours. I could never keep NC because I knew in my heart that no matter how much we loved each other, he wasn't mine and may never be.

[NowhereToHide]

If she really did have a drinking problem, why did he allow her full custody of the kids? I find it kind of odd that he would leave them behind, knowing full well she has a drinking problem..

 

 

I was thinking the same thing. I don't think the OP is getting the full story. I think her MM is sugar-coating things to make himself feel better about leaving her for his wife (yes, his wife and his family I think).

[pkn06002]

If she really did have a drinking problem, why did he allow her full custody of the kids? I find it kind of odd that he would leave them behind, knowing full well she has a drinking problem..

 

Could be lots of reasons for that.

 

1) The place he moved into is a different school than where the kids go now. He did not want to impact their lives.

 

2) The place he lived in did not have room for the kids.

 

3) He just did not think it through.

 

4) He cannot afford both two homes and child care. The wife says home so that is cheaper.

 

Who knows that really is something only he knows and obviously has not given the OP.

 

The OP really does not need information about why he decided to return. That information is in material to the end product here. The OP needs support to just walk away. All the other stuff is just noise the does nothing to help her move along.

[whichwayisup]

Your 1,2,3, and 4 STILL don't justify him leaving his children with a drunk. Sorry but I honestly believe that the drinking situation isn't as a bad, or if it is, this guy has his priorities screwed up.

 

You are right, OP needs to walk away and get support..This is all out of her hands now and the only thing she has control over is herself.

[pkn06002]

Your 1,2,3, and 4 STILL don't justify him leaving his children with a drunk. Sorry but I honestly believe that the drinking situation isn't as a bad, or if it is, this guy has his priorities screwed up.

 

You are right, OP needs to walk away and get support..This is all out of her hands now and the only thing she has control over is herself.

 

Justify???? That is an over used term when discussing issues like this. We can all guess at why he did what he did, but what is the point? Most of it will only make the OP feel worse than she already does.

 

Unlike most people on this board she got pulled into something where she thought there was a future. Only to have that taken away from her, for whatever reason.

[NowhereToHide]

Could be lots of reasons for that.

 

1) The place he moved into is a different school than where the kids go now. He did not want to impact their lives.

 

2) The place he lived in did not have room for the kids.

 

3) He just did not think it through.

 

4) He cannot afford both two homes and child care. The wife says home so that is cheaper.

 

Who knows that really is something only he knows and obviously has not given the OP.

 

The OP really does not need information about why he decided to return. That information is in material to the end product here. The OP needs support to just walk away. All the other stuff is just noise the does nothing to help her move along.

 

 

 

You may not think she needs this information, but in my personal experience, an insight I could get into the WHY helped me tremendously. I was consumed with the WHY.... I needed to get the perspective of others as to the possible reasons for returning to his wife when he considered me to be so much better for him.

 

Any information (even if it just comes from other people's stories) helps the OW with getting stronger and for her not to feel rejected and worthless.

[pkn06002]

You may not think she needs this information, but in my personal experience, an insight I could get into the WHY helped me tremendously. I was consumed with the WHY.... I needed to get the perspective of others as to the possible reasons for returning to his wife when he considered me to be so much better for him.

 

Any information (even if it just comes from other people's stories) helps the OW with getting stronger and for her not to feel rejected and worthless.

 

I have just the opposite view after spending countless hours/days/months trying to figure out the why's. In the end it served no purpose, until I came to the point of no longer caring about the why's could I move on.

 

Why try to judge your worth by what this other person felt for you? I have felt that rejection and know the pain.

 

But tell me how telling the OP that no matter how flawed his wife is she still is better than her since he returned to the wife? Because that ends up the circle that goes around and around in your head, you know that.

Edited October 8, 2009 by pkn06002

[NowhereToHide]

I have just the opposite view after spending countless hours/days/months trying to figure out the why's. In the end it served no purpose, until I came to the point of no longer caring about they why's could I move on.

 

Why try to judge your worth by what this other person felt for you? I have felt that rejection and know the pain.

 

But tell me how telling the OP that no matter how flawed his wife is she still is better than her since he returned to the wife? Because that ends up the circle that goes around and around in your head, you know that.

 

 

I, too, spent countless hours on the "why's". And it wasn't really until I came to this website and read the "why's" from other people's stories or the "why's" that came to me in the form of advice from other OWs (and some great BSs as well) that I felt some closure.

 

Quite frankly, for me, it doesn't matter if my "why" is real or just perceived. I needed to attach his actions to SOMETHING. Once I did that, I felt free.

 

I'm not hearing that people are telling the OP that she is better than the wife.... and even if they are, who cares? What you need isn't necessarily what others need.

 

She is still at the very early stages of this ending. If she needs a few "why's" to help her make sense of some things, then she is entitled to them if it helps her heal.

[pkn06002]

I, too, spent countless hours on the "why's". And it wasn't really until I came to this website and read the "why's" from other people's stories or the "why's" that came to me in the form of advice from other OWs (and some great BSs as well) that I felt some closure.

 

Quite frankly, for me, it doesn't matter if my "why" is real or just perceived. I needed to attach his actions to SOMETHING. Once I did that, I felt free.

 

I'm not hearing that people are telling the OP that she is better than the wife.... and even if they are, who cares? What you need isn't necessarily what others need.

 

She is still at the very early stages of this ending. If she needs a few "why's" to help her make sense of some things, then she is entitled to them if it helps her heal.

 

What I find interesting is the fact you dismiss what I see as a valid path but insist what you needed is a valid one for this OP. Well a difference of opinion then.

 

I think you meant "people are telling the OP that the wife is better than she is" there are at least three posts on the first page that do that. Those types of comments are far from helpful at this point.

 

If this OP needs why's sure why not but in the end do those why's even matter? Even you above say in the end they don't. But then again this is a process that does take different paths for different people. I know I wasted too much time on the why's instead of just moving on and accepting the situation.

Edited October 8, 2009 by pkn06002

[NowhereToHide]

What I find interesting is the fact you dismiss what I see as a valid path but insist what you needed is a valid one for this OP. Well a difference of opinion then.

 

I think you meant "people are telling the OP that the wife is better than she is" there are at least three posts on the first page that do that.

 

If this OP needs why's sure why not but in the end do those why's even matter? Even you above say in the end they don't. But then again this is a process that does take different paths for different people. I know I wasted too much time on the why's instead of just moving on and accepting the situation.

 

 

pkn... I don't disagree that for some, the "why's" don't matter. But for others (myself included), the "why's" were something I needed in order to get to a place of peace. Even now, when I start to think of my AP, I bring up one of my "why's" to get me back to reality.

 

I'm not here to discount your path, that wasn't my intent. I was merely suggesting that a blanket statement that "the OP doesn't need to know the why's" isn't necessarily true. It might be exactly what she needs.

 

The grieving process is different for everyone. And each person needs to determine the pieces that they need to move on.

[pkn06002]

Maybe I should've phrased it differently about they why's. Some of the why's just seem to rub salt into an already open wound.

 

I do want to say sorry to anyone I may of offended. Some of the why's that jwi71 posted triggered something in me that was not positive. It is interesting that even after a year and a half how some of those why's hit home.

Edited October 8, 2009 by pkn06002