Who wants a cheater anyway: why OW wouldn't stay with the MM if they were the BS

[MistyK]

On the other board, there is a thread about why BS's don't understand WS or OW/OM (that's the "polite" summary). Anyway, there seems to be some curiosity about why the OW don't understand why the BS want to take the WS back. Basically, why do the OW think the cheater is good enough for them, but not the BS? So here's my take, other OW: please feel free to chime in.

 

For OW, the fact that the MM is cheating with us doesn't neccessarily make him a cheater by nature. MM often say this is their 1st A, that they are the prisoner of circumstance and obligation and claim to no longer have sex with their W. So there is a small degree of loyalty from the MM for the OW to cling to (even if it's all lies, and it usually is). Also, it's all out in the open - OW at least know MM is involved in another relationship (married), so there's honesty in the dishonesty, supposedly nothing is happening behind our back.

 

The BS has no such honesty because she doesn't know that her H has another relationship. There's nothing for the MM to cry "victim of obligation" about why he stays in the supplemental relationship because he's not telling his W anything about his girlfriend. But the BS and the OW are similar in believing that the MM is having sex only with them, and both feel betrayed when they discover otherwise.

 

OW also like to believe that the crappy treatment is reserved only for the BS and only because of awful circumstance rather than being a personality trait. It is not all that unlike BS's wanting to believe that the WS is truly remorseful and is not by character a liar and cheater. When we love someone, we tell ourselves whatever we need to - BS amd OW's have that in common.

[Owl]

On the other board, there is a thread about why BS's don't understand WS or OW/OM (that's the "polite" summary). Anyway, there seems to be some curiosity about why the OW don't understand why the BS want to take the WS back. Basically, why do the OW think the cheater is good enough for them, but not the BS? So here's my take, other OW: please feel free to chime in.

 

For OW, the fact that the MM is cheating with us doesn't neccessarily make him a cheater by nature. MM often say this is their 1st A, that they are the prisoner of circumstance and obligation and claim to no longer have sex with their W. So there is a small degree of loyalty from the MM for the OW to cling to (even if it's all lies, and it usually is). Also, it's all out in the open - OW at least know MM is involved in another relationship (married), so there's honesty in the dishonesty, supposedly nothing is happening behind our back.

 

The BS has no such honesty because she doesn't know that her H has another relationship. There's nothing for the MM to cry "victim of obligation" about why he stays in the supplemental relationship because he's not telling his W anything about his girlfriend. But the BS and the OW are similar in believing that the MM is having sex only with them, and both feel betrayed when they discover otherwise.

 

OW also like to believe that the crappy treatment is reserved only for the BS and only because of awful circumstance rather than being a personality trait. It is not all that unlike BS's wanting to believe that the WS is truly remorseful and is not by character a liar and cheater. When we love someone, we tell ourselves whatever we need to - BS amd OW's have that in common.

 

So basically, the OW believes that all the "issues" in the marriage are the BS's fault, and the WS is blameless/faultless...making the cheating ok?

 

I'd agree that you can't have it both ways...either the issue is a "character flaw" in the cheater, OR it's a flaw in the marriage. That makes good sense to me.

 

And I'd agree that if it's a character flaw in the cheater...ANYONE who opts to remain in a relationship with them is likely to be badly hurt.

 

The one bit of confusion I sense here is that if the issue is a "flaw in the marriage"...that flaw is somehow inherently the BS's fault?

 

My situation is a great example...my wife began an EA with a man she met online. It wasn't a "character flaw"...the problem was entirely situational. She was depressed, refusing treatment, addicted to online gaming to a point that it greatly strained our family and relationship, and refused to change. I tried every possible thing I could think of to 'fix the relationship'. The flaws in our relationship weren't mine, were outside of my ability to change...they were hers, caused by her, and could only be fixed when/if she finally decided to change things.

 

My situation could have been a 'fluke'...in that the 'marital problems' were almost entirely one-sided...but it seems to be a common theme that I've noticed as well.

 

But given that my wife was pretty much forced to face these problems as a result of her EA...and the end result was that changes were made to 'fix' the problems...why would I NOT take her back?

 

And here's the thing...I firmly believe that if she'd gone to live with OM as she'd planned...she never would have addressed those issues. To this day, I believe that their relationship would have been very short lived...BECAUSE she wouldn't have addressed those issues.

 

Hope you don't mind my posting a response.

[MistyK]

Owl,

 

The MM generally will constantly reinforce the idea for the OW that their M is awful (and while they may admit some fault for that, the bottom line is that it's supposed to be a situation they simply "can't" remedy). OW are tempted to believe this because if we believe it's their choice to stay, rather than a unaviodable situation, we'd think badly of the MM who we love and feel rejected ourselves. It'd affect hohw we'd look at both of our characters.

 

In my personal situation, I think xSM's W had some major issues, but I think he aggravated them in a major way. He is just as much at fault for the failure of the M as she is, but probably moreso because the A was the deathblow. In the end, whoever's fault it was doesn't make the A "right", but of course OW are tempted to blame the BS's because this allows us to keep the MM up on the martyr pedestal. If we allow ourselves to see him for the cake-eater he is, what does that say about us? That's why it takes so long for us to get the message through our skulls.

 

But given that my wife was pretty much forced to face these problems as a result of her EA...and the end result was that changes were made to 'fix' the problems...why would I NOT take her back?

 

Right, but how can you tell the changes are genuine except over a long period of time and even then some BS's get duped again. Again, in theory, at least for the OW the cards were all on the table, the BS never had that and I suspect would live in fear of getting sucker-punched again at any moment (for good reason). In other words, it might be a character flaw, but there's no way to know unless you have another D-day. The OW theoretically has the false comfort of feeling like at least SHE was never lied to (until she finds out to the contrary anyway).

 

You're probably right about your W. Most R that start as affairs don't work and she needed to do work on herself either way.

[Owl]

Owl,

 

The MM generally will constantly reinforce the idea for the OW that their M is awful (and while they may admit some fault for that, the bottom line is that it's supposed to be a situation they simply "can't" remedy). OW are tempted to believe this because if we believe it's their choice to stay, rather than a unaviodable situation, we'd think badly of the MM who we love and feel rejected ourselves. It'd affect hohw we'd look at both of our characters.

 

In my personal situation, I think xSM's W had some major issues, but I think he aggravated them in a major way. He is just as much at fault for the failure of the M as she is, but probably moreso because the A was the deathblow. In the end, whoever's fault it was doesn't make the A "right", but of course OW are tempted to blame the BS's because this allows us to keep the MM up on the martyr pedestal. If we allow ourselves to see him for the cake-eater he is, what does that say about us? That's why it takes so long for us to get the message through our skulls.

 

I'd suggest that you're likely right about this. It's a 'normal pattern' that most WS's do. Once the affair starts especially, they'll intentionally aggravate the situation. They'll do things that initiate conflict with their BS...and then turn around and point it out as a prime example of 'what's wrong in our marriage". Been there, done that. It's a normal justification mechanism of someone engaged in an affair.

 

Right, but how can you tell the changes are genuine except over a long period of time and even then some BS's get duped again. Again, in theory, at least for the OW the cards were all on the table, the BS never had that and I suspect would live in fear of getting sucker-punched again at any moment (for good reason). In other words, it might be a character flaw, but there's no way to know unless you have another D-day. The OW theoretically has the false comfort of feeling like at least SHE was never lied to (until she finds out to the contrary anyway).

 

The only way to see if the changes made are "long term" is to stick around and see. There aren't any garauntees. But so far, five years later...the changes have held. Many BS's live in constant fear of another d-day for quite a while after an affair. Heck...most people betrayed in this fashion will carry that fear over to subsequent relationships as well. PTSD is a common thing for a BS to deal with.

 

It's a risk I knowingly and intentionally took. I feel that I'm as 'safe' with my wife as I would be with anyone else...perhaps moreso in a way...because she's gone through this painful "learning lesson" as well, whereas someone else I might start a new relationship with might not have learned this lesson yet.

 

You're probably right about your W. Most R that start as affairs don't work and she needed to do work on herself either way.

 

That's my thought too. Affairs are rarely the result of actually identifying and fixing a problem...they're more commonly a means to AVOID doing so. In my wife's situation, it was clearly the case.

[Dexter Morgan]

Who wants a cheater anyway? Uh, since you wanted a MM that cheats....apparantly YOU do.

 

Whether or not you are with him now is irrelevant. You wanted him and it was obvious he was a cheater.

[MistyK]

Who wants a cheater anyway? Uh, since you wanted a MM that cheats....apparantly YOU do.

 

Whether or not you are with him now is irrelevant. You wanted him and it was obvious he was a cheater.

 

As usual Dex, you completely missed the point. BS's seem willing to overlook the fact that their H cheats, yet they don't understand why OW would want a cheater (because theoretically they aren't cheating on the OW). Likewise, OW don't get why a BS would want to stay with a person who cheated on her (history, family, etc doesn't seem like enough of a reason).

[GreenEyedLady]

I guess most OW think this because they think if the tables were turned, they would dump him.

 

Also, that he has the history with THEM and look how highly he values it. It's a complete disrespect to the marital R.

 

GEL

[NoIDidn't]

If "wanting a cheater" is all you got out of the other thread, then YOU completely missed the point.

 

It wasn't about "wanting" a cheater. It was about "being" a cheater. Big difference. BIG difference.

[MistyK]

Let's be honest - the other thread was the top 3 reason the BS's are "better" than WS or OW/OM. This is not a response to that thread (otherwise it would be titled Top three reasons we'd never be a BS who takes the WH back and be similarly snarky about why we think we're "better" than that) - it is a response to a specific inquiry by Jasminetea.

[whichwayisup]

But the BS and the OW are similar in believing that the MM is having sex only with them, and both feel betrayed when they discover otherwise.

 

Well, the BS doesn't know about the affair, but the OW KNOWS MM is married, and is believing his lies.. Most MM aren't going to really admit to their OW that they're still having sex with their wives, that would be stupid of them since then they'll have to deal with jealously issues and questions.

[bentnotbroken]

Let's be honest - the other thread was the top 3 reason the BS's are "better" than WS or OW/OM. This is not a response to that thread (otherwise it would be titled Top three reasons we'd never be a BS who takes the WH back and be similarly snarky about why we think we're "better" than that) - it is a response to a specific inquiry by Jasminetea.

 

 

That's not the title of the other thread. I can't read your mind, so I have to assume when you post a thread it means exactly what it say it means. You and TC with the thread I posted a while back about what I did to contribute the marital issues, both said the the OP meant something else. Why assume facts not in evidence? I will say exactly what I mean. Could it possible be that the OP of the other thread said exactly what they mean? The term better was never used. Do you think this way about yourself? Why would you? It isn't about better, but the personal boundaries someone has.

 

Your boundaries for anger and aggressiveness maybe different than mine. Does that mean better, depends on what the standard is I guess. My boundaries for relationships are different than yours, that's what the post meant to me.

[NoIDidn't]

Let's be honest - the other thread was the top 3 reason the BS's are "better" than WS or OW/OM. This is not a response to that thread (otherwise it would be titled Top three reasons we'd never be a BS who takes the WH back and be similarly snarky about why we think we're "better" than that) - it is a response to a specific inquiry by Jasminetea.

 

IF we were really being honest, we would admit that the word "better" never appeared in that thread. This is what you posted about starting a new thread: "Done. "Who Wants A Cheater Anyway" "

 

I know it can seem that the BSs are saying that they are better, but what they are saying is that they wouldn't be so cavalier about another person's feelings as the cheater was, as the person that helped the cheater was.

 

Its difficult to see one's actions through the lense of the person those actions hurt. I get that. But no one ever said they were better. They just said their reasons for not being able to do it.

 

I couldn't say I would never cheat. I don't know the future.

 

And as far as "who wants a cheater", that's exactly what the OP has. The BS had a "Spouse" long before they ever knew they had a "practicing" cheater. IMO, its obvious who wants the cheater then - the OP. Because the spouse only wants them back if they STOP CHEATING.

[tami-chan]

And as far as "who wants a cheater"' date=' that's exactly what the OP has. The BS had a "Spouse" long before they ever knew they had a "practicing" cheater. IMO, its obvious who wants the cheater then - the OP. Because the spouse only wants them back if they STOP CHEATING.[/quote']

 

But it does not change the fact that the WS is also NOW a spouse who is a cheat-and the BS (not all, obviously) still wants him/her back. While the AP wants a the person who has (hopefully) not cheated on her/him. After all, the married AP cheated on his spouse but did not cheat on his AP. So does anybody think there is a winner or loser...I think not.....unless you count the one who is able to move on with his/her life with minimal emotional damage.

[foreal]

If the A is over, OW and BS both had a cheater (whether they knew it or not)...I doubt either wanted a cheater, but they had one in any case...nature of the beast.

 

Once the A is over, and if MM ends up with the BS or OW, and he then remains faithful, then the BS or OW who have their man still don't want a cheater...they had one, yes, but they sure as hell don't want an active one now.

 

Can't we all agree that no OP/BS, actually wants a cheater?

 

This made me think of something my H and I exchanged after I found out..he asked me, "What do you want? What can I do? I'll do anything to make this right, anything!" and my answer was, "I want a H who hasn't cheated".

[NoIDidn't]

If the A is over, OW and BS both had a cheater (whether they knew it or not)...I doubt either wanted a cheater, but they had one in any case...nature of the beast.

 

Once the A is over, and if MM ends up with the BS or OW, and he then remains faithful, then the BS or OW who have their man still don't want a cheater...they had one, yes, but they sure as hell don't want an active one now.

 

Can't we all agree that no OP/BS, actually wants a cheater?

 

This made me think of something my H and I exchanged after I found out..he asked me, "What do you want? What can I do? I'll do anything to make this right, anything!" and my answer was, "I want a H who hasn't cheated".

 

You get no disagreement from me using the after the affair is over logic.

 

But if we are talking about during the affair, that's something different.

 

The BS wants the H that didn't cheat (wants to go back in time). But the OW wants the MM that did.

[tami-chan]

If the A is over, OW and BS both had a cheater (whether they knew it or not)...I doubt either wanted a cheater, but they had one in any case...nature of the beast.

 

 

Once the A is over, and if MM ends up with the BS or OW, and he then remains faithful, then the BS or OW who have their man still don't want a cheater...they had one, yes, but they sure as hell don't want an active one now.

 

Can't we all agree that no OP/BS, actually wants a cheater?

 

Agreed. Although if the BS ends up with her WS--she would have a husband who has cheated on her-and hopefully will not ever cheat again. If the OW ends up marrying the MM, she would have a husband who has not cheated on her and hopefully will never cheat on her. Everybody wants to be the one who made the difference.

 

This made me think of something my H and I exchanged after I found out..he asked me, "What do you want? What can I do? I'll do anything to make this right, anything!" and my answer was, "I want a H who hasn't cheated".

 

So he is now your ex-husband? Sorry, I do not remember your story.

[fooled once]

Agreed. Although if the BS ends up with her WS--she would have a husband who has cheated on her-and hopefully will not ever cheat again. If the OW ends up marrying the MM, she would have a husband who has not cheated on her and hopefully will never cheat on her. Everybody wants to be the one who made the difference.

 

So he is now your ex-husband? Sorry, I do not remember your story.

 

 

How did she have a H who didn't cheat on her when he was previously married? Oh - is it because "he never had sex with his wife" after he started the affair which lead to the divorce which lead to the marriage with the OW he cheated on his wife with?

 

And I agree - I don't think anyone says "Hey, i want to marry a cheater - wonder where I can find one!"

 

I don't think ANY person wants to be with someone who cheats on them.

 

I think BS's who do take back their spouse do so for several reasons that maybe a OW/OM don't understand.

 

I think many OW/OM who end up with the cheater do so for reasons maybe the BS doesn't understand.

 

But I think it is an individual decision on whether you want to be with a cheater (meaning the person you were with who was already married) or not.

 

Many OW/OM want that affair partner -- because they firmly believe that they won't be cheated on..... and maybe the cheater never does cheat again.

[tami-chan]

 

How did she have a H who didn't cheat on her when he was previously married? Oh - is it because "he never had sex with his wife" after he started the affair which lead to the divorce which lead to the marriage with the OW he cheated on his wife with?

 

Well, it depends. OW knows he is married and by virtue of that status must be having sex with his wife....so that's not really cheating on OW because it is a known(or assumed) fact---UNLESS, the MM swore sexual fidelity to OW and was actually lying.

 

I think BS's who do take back their spouse do so for several reasons that maybe a OW/OM don't understand.

 

I understand some of the reasons why BSs stay or take their husbands back, because I stayed and was faithful to the marriage for more than a decade.

 

I think many OW/OM who end up with the cheater do so for reasons maybe the BS doesn't understand.

 

I agree....!

 

But I think it is an individual decision on whether you want to be with a cheater (meaning the person you were with who was already married) or not.

 

Absolutely. And hope that you are the person who will make a difference and straighten him out!

[sadintexas]

In order for cheating to occur, one has to promise fidelity. So the MP is cheating on his/her spouse, but not necessarily on the AP. It's fairly unrealistic IMO for an AP to expect fidelity from a MP.

[OWoman]

MM aren't going to really admit to their OW that they're still having sex with their wives, that would be stupid of them since then they'll have to deal with jealously issues and questions.

 

I think that depends on the nature of the A. I always assumed my MMs would be sexually active with their Ws, and made it clear I didn't care either way. As a result, they were honest about it, and didn't feel they had to pretend either way. And, yes, some were having sex with their Ws, some weren't, and others were initially at the start of the A but went off it during the A. "Jealousy issues and questions" are only an issue if you're hung up on monogamy.

 

Can't we all agree that no OP/BS, actually wants a cheater?

 

For the purposes of an A, I could have cared less whether he was a "cheater" or not (to his W) - I had no expectation of monogamy nor desire for it from him or me, so it wasn't an issue.

 

From my H, I don't expect or demand sexual exclusivity - but I do demand honesty. If he wanted another lover, and said so, I'd have no issue with that. But if he took one without telling me, I'd have lots to say about that!

 

In order for cheating to occur, one has to promise fidelity. So the MP is cheating on his/her spouse, but not necessarily on the AP. It's fairly unrealistic IMO for an AP to expect fidelity from a MP.

 

Agreed! But then, not all MPs promise fidelity as part of their vows, and not all BSs raise the expectation of fidelity - by their words or their actions. For example, my H's xW had no history of fidelity herself - my now-H was her (unknowing) OM while she was M to her first H. So, clearly, she didn't "believe in" fidelity... Later, she said as much, that she didn't expect him to be faithful, but she did want him to be loyal. So, he was just doing as she said...

 

So basically, the OW believes that all the "issues" in the marriage are the BS's fault, and the WS is blameless/faultless...making the cheating ok?

 

I'd agree that you can't have it both ways...either the issue is a "character flaw" in the cheater, OR it's a flaw in the marriage. That makes good sense to me.

 

And I'd agree that if it's a character flaw in the cheater...ANYONE who opts to remain in a relationship with them is likely to be badly hurt.

 

The one bit of confusion I sense here is that if the issue is a "flaw in the marriage"...that flaw is somehow inherently the BS's fault?

 

It could be a combination of traits in both personalities that becomes dysfunctional in combination - for example, if you get one person who is very driven, and one who is very laid back, it's easy for the driven person to become dominant in the relationship over time, and for the laid back one to become subordinate - leading, potentially, to a dysfunctional relationship. If, OTOH, the driven person was with someone equally driven, those issues of dominance would resolve themselves dynamically - though probably more energetically that the initial "easiness" of the driven - laid back combination.

 

But yes, sometimes it is the fault of one partner - sometimes the WS, and sometimes the BS. The best indicator for that is probably to observe the person / people in their various other roles and Rs, to see if there are common traits that carry through. Someone who avoids conflict, say, is likely to do so in work situations as well as at home, and with friends. So it's usually pretty easy to tell where the "fault" lies. IME anyway.

[Dexter Morgan]

As usual Dex, you completely missed the point. BS's seem willing to overlook the fact that their H cheats, yet they don't understand why OW would want a cheater (because theoretically they aren't cheating on the OW).

 

no, didn't miss the point at all. situation is, the BS has a tie to the cheater that the OW/OM doesn't. The OW/OM can leave any time without a huge mess. And if you think BS's "overlook" the cheating aspect of the their spouses, you are sorely mistaken.

 

 

Likewise, OW don't get why a BS would want to stay with a person who cheated on her (history, family, etc doesn't seem like enough of a reason).

 

ive said this before....there are other reasons to stay, and in my opinion the wrong reasons.....for the kids....money....security....not wanting to uproot their convenient and familiar life. The same thought ran through my head for a month before I decided to file for divorce. I realized that I wasn't going to hold myself prisoner for the rest of my life for the wrong reasons.

[Dexter Morgan]

Let's be honest - the other thread was the top 3 reason the BS's are "better" than WS or OW/OM. This is not a response to that thread

 

oh bull. you can respond to that thread with this one, and you did. big deal.

 

But dont try to sit there and say this isn't a response. you weren't about to post this until the other thread came up. if the other thread wasn't there, this one wouldn't have been posted.

 

at least be honest...geez.

[Dexter Morgan]

But it does not change the fact that the WS is also NOW a spouse who is a cheat-and the BS (not all, obviously) still wants him/her back.

 

wanting him/her back, and wanting to keep the marriage for the wrong reasons are two different things.

 

If I would have stayed with my x-wife, it would be for every reason OTHER than wanting her, cuz at that point I no longer wanted her.

[silktricks]

Absolutely. And hope that you are the person who will make a difference and straighten him out!

 

No!!! No person can "straighten out" another person. The only person who can straighten out the cheater is the person who cheated.

 

That may be one of the key differences, in fact. I don't know many fBS who believe they were the person who changed their fWS.

 

The same apparently cannot be said of the OW????

[NoIDidn't]

No!!! No person can "straighten out" another person. The only person who can straighten out the cheater is the person who cheated.

 

That may be one of the key differences, in fact. I don't know many fBS who believe they were the person who changed their fWS.

 

The same apparently cannot be said of the OW????

 

I don't think it can. Most OW/OM think they are changing the MP to begin with. Makes perfect sense that they think that someone can straighten out another person.