Jump to content

A big thank you to all the BS's out there...


Recommended Posts

I wanted to thank all of the betrayed spouses and their threads. Without those threads I would never have developed the relationship I have now with MM, or xMM I guess you could say.

 

I listened when BS's were trying to reconcile and when they demanded remorse and transparency and respect. I saw the similarities between their positions and my own and I put my foot down.

 

And after some time, I have the most wonderful, amazing friend you could ever have. He's a different person now than he was two years ago. He's open and honest and grateful that I require him to be so. He's opened his mind and matured emotionally and intellectually. And I'm sure that some of you will poo poo the idea, because I am after all, just the "other woman". Funny thing though, we stopped having sex a long time ago and he's still here....

 

This man is actually thinking for the first time in his life, and he's trying to make educated, reasonable, rational decisions about where he's going and what he's doing. His counselor is proud of him and his progress. And maybe he'll get divorced and maybe he won't but no matter what, I get to keep the person I helped him be and I get to know that he wasn't just going along, that he made a choice for himself.

 

And the sad part is that his silly, pathetic wife didn't want him to grow, she'd rather have the beat down, sad, depressed little man I met two years ago. She's fought him every step of the way. She refused marriage counseling, she refused to spend more time alone with him without the kids. She's refused to address the issues with sex. She didn't appreciate the little gestures he made everyday to show how much he wanted things to get better, for both of them. She didn't want to put the work in because status quo worked for her. And because of it, she's staring a divorce straight in the face. Don't ask me how I know, it's not just his word alone, even though now I firmly believe that I can trust it.

 

So thank you, thank you for teaching me how to make a crappy relationship into a great one. For a long time I didn't think we'd be able to shovel out all the crap that was in the hole, but yesterday he thanked me for not backing down when he didn't want to do the work of fixing things anymore. And that man did some very hard work. Thank you for teaching me how to help myself and someone else become stronger, better people.

 

JessieT

Link to post
Share on other sites
whichwayisup

Seems you believe his wife is the devil and he's the innocent angel who is perfect in their marriage. Seems you are still having an affair with him, it's just not a sexual affair, it's an emotional one.

 

Seems he has decided to stay married to his silly, pathetic wife.

 

It takes TWO to ruin a marriage, yet you've only heard HIS side of things.

 

He's still choosing to stay married and it seems you're still the OW. Call it special friendship, or whatever, doesn't change the fact he isn't the one who is saying to her, "let's divorce." Seems your MM or exMM is passive and doesn't want to be the bad guy, he would rather his silly pathetic wife divorce him.

 

Good luck though..

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm sure you'll be welcomed.. :p

 

If what you say is true.. then your MM is a wussy... nothing to be proud of.. sorry.. but I hope he grows some balls and leave her.. :o

 

And the sad part is that his silly, pathetic wife didn't want him to grow, she'd rather have the beat down, sad, depressed little man I met two years ago. She's fought him every step of the way. She refused marriage counseling, she refused to spend more time alone with him without the kids. She's refused to address the issues with sex. She didn't appreciate the little gestures he made everyday to show how much he wanted things to get better, for both of them.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Jessie that is really interesting to see and good for you. I am still in touch with xMM and its been over 2 years since the A ended. He desparately wants to be friends or so it seems as he contacts me all the fing time.

 

But I have trouble with it. When we have too much contact, it brings back memories both good and bad. But then he is not honest and open about anything personal. He simply contacts me numerous times a week about work. And it is not necessary but because its work related I have to respond.

 

What do you think brought about the change? I feel like I have tried everything. When I try to talk to him about the past he says why do you keep bringing that up we put that behind us (then why are you still ctonacting me telling me your every move as if I care... xyz about work and then Im in Atlanta and its hot and humid ...uh huh tell your wife)

 

It would be nice if we could really be friends but I dont see it so I do my best to minimze our contact.

 

How did you foster this change?

Link to post
Share on other sites
I wanted to thank all of the betrayed spouses and their threads. Without those threads I would never have developed the relationship I have now with MM, or xMM I guess you could say.

 

I listened when BS's were trying to reconcile and when they demanded remorse and transparency and respect. I saw the similarities between their positions and my own and I put my foot down.

 

And after some time, I have the most wonderful, amazing friend you could ever have. He's a different person now than he was two years ago. He's open and honest and grateful that I require him to be so. He's opened his mind and matured emotionally and intellectually. And I'm sure that some of you will poo poo the idea, because I am after all, just the "other woman". Funny thing though, we stopped having sex a long time ago and he's still here....

 

This man is actually thinking for the first time in his life, and he's trying to make educated, reasonable, rational decisions about where he's going and what he's doing. His counselor is proud of him and his progress. And maybe he'll get divorced and maybe he won't but no matter what, I get to keep the person I helped him be and I get to know that he wasn't just going along, that he made a choice for himself.

 

And the sad part is that his silly, pathetic wife didn't want him to grow, she'd rather have the beat down, sad, depressed little man I met two years ago. She's fought him every step of the way. She refused marriage counseling, she refused to spend more time alone with him without the kids. She's refused to address the issues with sex. She didn't appreciate the little gestures he made everyday to show how much he wanted things to get better, for both of them. She didn't want to put the work in because status quo worked for her. And because of it, she's staring a divorce straight in the face. Don't ask me how I know, it's not just his word alone, even though now I firmly believe that I can trust it.

 

So thank you, thank you for teaching me how to make a crappy relationship into a great one. For a long time I didn't think we'd be able to shovel out all the crap that was in the hole, but yesterday he thanked me for not backing down when he didn't want to do the work of fixing things anymore. And that man did some very hard work. Thank you for teaching me how to help myself and someone else become stronger, better people.

 

JessieT

 

Yeah, sure. YOU KNOW this how? Did you snoop into his email? Did he tell you this? Did his 'friends' tell you this?

 

This is a very condescending post, IMHO. Seems like you - the OW/Mistress - are calling out all Betrayed spouses. Have you ever been betrayed by your spouse? Do you have any idea what that feels like? To have the person who pledged to love you, stand beside you, be with you - chose instead of working on your marriage - run to the nearest warm body to get all that support he was missing at home?

 

And how are you privy to what goes on in a counselor's office? Oh - I bet he tells you all about those visits.

 

Has he apologized to his wife for sleeping with you? Has he owned up to his wife what he did to cause his marriage to fail? Did his spineless, weak, cheating, lying conscious get him to admit his mistakes to his wife?

 

So if he is so strong - did he file from divorce from this miserable woman? Or is he not that strong yet? Are you helping him to get that strong so he can run to you -- his savior?

Link to post
Share on other sites
bentnotbroken
:):)Jessie you are more than welcome. I would like to thank you on behalf of his pathetic wife. As long as you have that big steaming pile of nothing who is a waste of good skin...she is free to find a real man. Who wants a prick who doesn't want to get away from such a horrible woman that is ruining his life. Oh by the way, is the ink dry on those divorce papers yet:rolleyes::rolleyes::lmao::lmao:
Link to post
Share on other sites
bentnotbroken
I'm sure you'll be welcomed.. :p

 

If what you say is true.. then your MM is a wussy... nothing to be proud of.. sorry.. but I hope he grows some balls and leave her.. :oQUOTE]

 

 

:lmao::lmao::lmao:Lizzie we agree again. Lighting bolt please.:p

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Author

I won't defend who either he or I was in the past. He was a wuss, it's why he chose to cheat instead of deal with things in the first place. I wasn't very healthy emotionally myself at the beginning.

 

We fought and made up and fought and made up and continued the affair for what seemed like a really long time. He lied, he was a jerk, I was clingy and needy.

 

I started to see a therapist and started working on myself. We finally broke off the sexual part of the relationship some time back but the habit of talking to each other was still there every day. And I started reading. I read here and I read support sites for each of the three sides. And then I started reading the BS stuff more than anything else.

 

And basically I pulled the "180". It's as close as I can come to what I chose. I chose to make myself the best I could be and while I figured he'd fall by the wayside, he didn't. At the beginning he promised that if I kept talking to him he'd go to counseling. Well, sure, that's never a bad thing and I figured that he'd realize what he was doing and he'd stop talking to me.

 

And he started trying really hard to fix his marriage. Why on earth would that be a bad thing? It's his marriage, he should try to fix it. But the silly thing was that he kept trying the same things that he did before he met me. But this time he had a counselor and he had me. Does that sound egotistical? Maybe. But seriously what friend wouldn't push him to try marriage counseling? What friend wouldn't suggest books to read? Ones like too bad to stay, too good to leave (are we allowed to write titles on here? if not, sorry!) and the 5 love languages. What friend wouldn't suggest a babysitter so that they could go out together and spend some time?

 

And he used to lie when he was going to cancel. He'd set it up by saying oh, I have to stay up late for work, well that just meant he was going to say he overslept in the morning. Well, now he just says that he needs to cancel. That sounds like a little thing, but for him it's a huge thing. It's scary and hard for him, when you're used to lying like that (and I'm not the only one he did that too, I am friends with his friends) just telling the truth is a big step forward.

 

And it's progress, and it's something to be proud of. He's working really hard to grow up and I think it's great.

 

Maybe it sounds dumb but I don't need him to leave his marriage for me. I need and want him to do the thing that is right for him. And if he chooses to stay married to his silly pathetic wife, good for him, I only ask that it be an educated choice, not just staying because he's too lazy to leave.

 

And I just wrote a book! So I'll stop yapping for now.

Link to post
Share on other sites

So I wonder is he your friend or your lover???

 

I take it from what you write that he is still married and that the only one that bringing up the divorce if BS?

 

If he is so strong and not happy and BS is keeping him down why is he not divorced?

 

good luck with whatever, but if he never divorces will you stick around?

Link to post
Share on other sites
bentnotbroken
I won't defend who either he or I was in the past. He was a wuss, it's why he chose to cheat instead of deal with things in the first place. I wasn't very healthy emotionally myself at the beginning.

 

We fought and made up and fought and made up and continued the affair for what seemed like a really long time. He lied, he was a jerk, I was clingy and needy.

 

I started to see a therapist and started working on myself. We finally broke off the sexual part of the relationship some time back but the habit of talking to each other was still there every day. And I started reading. I read here and I read support sites for each of the three sides. And then I started reading the BS stuff more than anything else.

 

And basically I pulled the "180". It's as close as I can come to what I chose. I chose to make myself the best I could be and while I figured he'd fall by the wayside, he didn't. At the beginning he promised that if I kept talking to him he'd go to counseling. Well, sure, that's never a bad thing and I figured that he'd realize what he was doing and he'd stop talking to me.

 

And he started trying really hard to fix his marriage. Why on earth would that be a bad thing? It's his marriage, he should try to fix it. But the silly thing was that he kept trying the same things that he did before he met me. But this time he had a counselor and he had me. Does that sound egotistical? Maybe. But seriously what friend wouldn't push him to try marriage counseling? What friend wouldn't suggest books to read? Ones like too bad to stay, too good to leave (are we allowed to write titles on here? if not, sorry!) and the 5 love languages. What friend wouldn't suggest a babysitter so that they could go out together and spend some time?

 

And he used to lie when he was going to cancel. He'd set it up by saying oh, I have to stay up late for work, well that just meant he was going to say he overslept in the morning. Well, now he just says that he needs to cancel. That sounds like a little thing, but for him it's a huge thing. It's scary and hard for him, when you're used to lying like that (and I'm not the only one he did that too, I am friends with his friends) just telling the truth is a big step forward.

 

And it's progress, and it's something to be proud of. He's working really hard to grow up and I think it's great.

 

Maybe it sounds dumb but I don't need him to leave his marriage for me. I need and want him to do the thing that is right for him. And if he chooses to stay married to his silly pathetic wife, good for him, I only ask that it be an educated choice, not just staying because he's too lazy to leave.

 

And I just wrote a book! So I'll stop yapping for now.

 

 

:lmao::lmao::lmao:You're funny:lmao::lmao::lmao:

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Author

Yes yes, of course I couldn't possibly know any truths about his life, I was just the gullible little sidepork...

 

So obviously I'm just a disillusioned idiot and there's really no need for you to waste your time responding.

Link to post
Share on other sites
whichwayisup

So, what happens if you meet someone else? Or will your heart allow you to fall for someone else?

 

Basically, you're still having an EA with him. The feelings are still there and he relies on you in ways that are WRONG considering you were/are his affair partner. If his wife knew the 'truth' I highly doubt she would approve of the friendship. It's STILL hidden and that isn't a true, honest friendship. It's a selfish, self serving friendship.

Link to post
Share on other sites
bentnotbroken
Yes yes, of course I couldn't possibly know any truths about his life, I was just the gullible little sidepork...

 

So obviously I'm just a disillusioned idiot and there's really no need for you to waste your time responding.

 

 

You say you don't need to defend, so why do you bother responding to people who you don't owe anything to?:confused::rolleyes:

 

Sidepork yes, gullible no.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Author

Wow whichwayisup...thank you for posting that. That was a long time ago. I'm not that person anymore. I was trying so hard to be dignified and let it go like a good little OW should do.

 

I am so glad I didn't stay like that. That JessieT was so broken and so sad. I'm sure most people on this board liked her better though. He came back, they always do. And if you're like that JessieT was, they'll suck you dry. Unless you're really good at NC. I wasn't so good at it then. I was however mortified that I wasn't as strong as all you who always do the right thing no matter what.

 

I've worked really hard to be stronger than that now. And I've lost a lot of respect for his wife. And I've gained respect for him. I know more now than I did then. And how is having an actual grown up for a father who either has a great relationship with the mother or has divorced her so that they can both find an appropriate relationship a bad thing? You especially can't say it's a bad thing if the new person isn't me.

 

You're right, it probably still is an EA. And as for me meeting someone new, I'm actively dating now, so we'll see how it goes. There's a pretty promising guy on the horizon. We'll see if this EA hamstrings me or not.

 

Hmm, maybe I was being defensive. I think it's more I forgot that even though I'm just sidepork it's still really fun for the overachievers in this world to mock me. I would have thought something so gruesome as sidepork would be below everyone's notice.

 

And actually, I wasn't trying to be condescending. I really was thanking the BS's. Without them I wouldn't be where I was today. And although you might think that stinks, I'm pretty darn happy with who I turned out to be.

Link to post
Share on other sites
hopesndreams

And actually, I wasn't trying to be condescending. I really was thanking the BS's. Without them I wouldn't be where I was today. And although you might think that stinks, I'm pretty darn happy with who I turned out to be.

 

You're welcome. Glad you are happy with being 2nd best. Now if only you can stop hating on his pathetic wife, if at all possible, because it sounds as though you have went a bit cuckoo.

Link to post
Share on other sites
LucreziaBorgia

I see a lot of OW going this route when they are struggling to be the HOW (happy other woman). It is pretty convincing, but reading between the lines it is clear to see your frustration and how hard you are working to convince yourself that this is what you want.

 

That whole blithe "silly stupid wife, you can have your marriage - I will be happy with your husband" thing is pretty common. I see it all the time on other boards. The harder the OW works to convince others of how happy she is being the OW to a man who clearly will never divorce, and the harder she works to discredit and insult the wife the more clear it becomes to those of us who know the territory from both sides so to speak - that underneath it all is a woman who is enraged and fairly helpless on some level.

 

I don't see you as a 'sidepork' or anything of the sort. I do see you as a person who is determined to make the best of her situation the best way she can.

 

Let go of your anger toward his wife. She isn't your enemy. If he won't leave her, it is because he doesn't want to on some level regardless of what he is trying to convince you of. Say what you will about the wife if you were to hear this directly from her mouth, but until you sit down with her and really talk it out and find out exactly what is going on for yourself, then there is no grounds for you to 'take his word for it' and attack her part in the marriage. Don't misplace your trust. There is no reason for trust in a situation like this particularly when you are only getting part of the story.

 

You can trust him when you have 100% of the story from both husband and wife. Until then, put aside some part of your heart and keep it safe from him. That bit that you keep to yourself might end up being your life raft in the end.

Link to post
Share on other sites
AlektraClementine

 

 

And the sad part is that his silly, pathetic wife didn't want him to grow, she'd rather have the beat down, sad, depressed little man I met two years ago. She's fought him every step of the way. She refused marriage counseling, she refused to spend more time alone with him without the kids. She's refused to address the issues with sex. She didn't appreciate the little gestures he made everyday to show how much he wanted things to get better, for both of them. She didn't want to put the work in because status quo worked for her. And because of it, she's staring a divorce straight in the face. Don't ask me how I know, it's not just his word alone, even though now I firmly believe that I can trust it.

 

 

JessieT

 

 

 

I was just about to ask you how you came about this very private information. Other than his word, of course. Then I read what's in bold. Why don't you want anyone to ask how you know? Is it some big secret that you can't reveal on an anonymous message board? Could be as simple as you saying "his wife told me directly that all of these statements are true".

 

That's the kind of info that would have to be heard from the pathetic horse's mouth in order for me to believe it.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Author

I've been trained not to give too much info as I've been the OW but I think this will work.

 

We have a hobby, that xMM, his best friend from kindergarten, his best college friend and a couple other friends that we used to work with all do together. One night at a bbq for the hobby people we were all sitting around. I'm female so I was with the wives. They started talking about the recent divorce of another of the hobby members. These two people had gone to marriage counseling. xMM's wife said that MC doesn't help, it's what people in marriage's that are over but they're not yet willing to admit it do. Then she said that he had asked her to go to marriage counseling and she refused. As the discussion continued, most of the wives said they would be shocked if their husband's had asked them to go but they would do it. XMM's wife refuses to see that her marriage is nearing the end if she won't change. The kindergarten friend's wife was very gentle and nice about saying that maybe there was something wrong but xMM's wife was adamant.

 

She also thinks date night is stupid. Yes I heard it straight from her mouth. She doesn't like to travel anymore, doesn't want to leave the kids, refuses to have a babysitter. Yes I heard it straight from her mouth. As she presented herself, sticking your head in the sand and hoping things go away is the way to solve a problem.

 

She ripped his head off because when he went to go pick up more beer he brought her a scratch lottery ticket as well. Because he was explaining the game that he picked for her. And she did it in front of everyone.

 

These things all fit with what he says. I see no reason not to believe him. I also hear what his friends and their wives say about the relationship. It's not just me. The guy is working his butt off to try and fix things, to change things, to make them better.

 

I'm not standing in his way. I'm at his back with the rest of his friends. And to be perfectly honest, they're screaming divorce a lot louder than I am.

 

I think I made it clear, it's not about winning him, it's about everyone being the best person that they can be. Sure, I love him to death, and I would probably give it a chance if he got divorced and came to me. But I can't say that I think it would necessarily work, we're very different in a lot of ways. But I want him to be a healthy happy person, as he wants for me and that's the most important thing. I don't consider that trying to be a HOW, I guess I don't consider myself an OW anymore.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Great point Lucretia. I think the only way to be a HOW when you have an emotional relationship with someone who is not leaving or not committed to leaving is to respect the marriage and his feelings for his family and understand your place in the dynamic, which is outside of and in parallel to the family dynamic with the family being his primary responsibility.

 

Otherwise the OW is so resentful that they cant possibly be happy.

 

I appreciate that OWoman managed another scenario. I wouldnt count GEL in this because she ended the A when she didnt feel she was number one so she was not a HOW.

 

 

That did work well for me for a time, and then it didnt when I stopped being the HOW I stopped being the OW. Which is also why I struggle being in contact with him because an A is not just about sex.

 

When I first read the OPs thread I hadnt focused on her feelings for the W but that is telling.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Jessie. It sounds like you are very frustrated. I think in a way you are still the OW. You are in an EA even tho you dont realize it. Its what i have been struggling against with xMM. Continuing in close contact while you still have alot of feelings for one another is very much like an EA even if you arent sitting there telling each other how much you miss each other etc etc.

 

The issue is that the emotional tie is still there and its not a detached friendly thing. If he left and said you are a good true friend and I hope we are friends for the rest of our lives. I am leaving and I have met the love of my life, her name is Amy and I know you two will be great friends.

 

Would you be happy then? I suspect you would be devastated.

Link to post
Share on other sites
LucreziaBorgia

Jessie, have you read an article called "The TOW Dipper"? It is about men who have 'bitch wives' but either stay with them, or run back to them - sometimes even after the divorce. Sometimes there are men out there who have a deep seated need to stay with the 'bitch wife/mommy' because on some level they most want her validation and approval and the harder the 'bitch wife/mommy' makes it for them, the more determined they are to hold on and keep plugging away at an apparently dismal marriage. Perhaps subconsciously he has you on 'lover/mate' status and has her on 'mommy' status - in which a man might take a lover, but won't ever leave mama.

 

Just speculating, you know - but you do see it a lot happening that way. Some men do get themselves out, but it takes a chunk out of them and when they move on, they move on considerably less hearty as full time mates than they were as MM. There are some blighted and dark parts of everyone's psyche and when it is intertwined with someone else and is torn away - even the removal of the negative will leave a painful void that needs to be healed over and set aside for life.

 

These men with their 'bitch wife/mother' are surprisingly fragile in some senses. When they do make their way out and on to someone else, that someone else is left with the emotional cleanup. Not always easy.

 

Some women prefer to keep it as OW/MM than try to handle the inevitable collapse and rebuilding that comes when the dynamics change.

 

It is good that you have some guidance Jessie, to bolster you during this time, and it is good that your spirits appear to be up. I'm not trying to be condescending or smug - but you are the OW, even if you don't consider yourself so. He is married, and apparently determined to stay that way. I would not listen to anyone on the outside in matters like this (for example club members, people that know H and W personally). Only two people know if there is going to be a divorce, and those two people are connected in a way that no one on the outside can truly understand, and they have a circle of two that no one else is 100% in on. People stay married for different reasons, and some have trouble letting go even when the marriage is basically over, and sometimes even when the marriage is over, they are living separately and have started new lives with others.

 

Just remember: don't make enemies with the W just yet. Until you speak to her directly, I wouldn't trust the situation. I'm not even sure if I would trust it even then. Marrieds can have some mystifying bonds even in light of a clearly dead marriage - and both H and W will say some things that are designed to keep the circle closed, so to speak.

Link to post
Share on other sites

{snip}

And after some time, I have the most wonderful, amazing friend you could ever have. He's a different person now than he was two years ago. He's open and honest and grateful that I require him to be so. He's opened his mind and matured emotionally and intellectually. And I'm sure that some of you will poo poo the idea, because I am after all, just the "other woman". Funny thing though, we stopped having sex a long time ago and he's still here....

 

This man is actually thinking for the first time in his life, and he's trying to make educated, reasonable, rational decisions about where he's going and what he's doing. His counselor is proud of him and his progress. And maybe he'll get divorced and maybe he won't but no matter what, I get to keep the person I helped him be and I get to know that he wasn't just going along, that he made a choice for himself.

 

And the sad part is that his silly, pathetic wife didn't want him to grow, she'd rather have the beat down, sad, depressed little man I met two years ago. She's fought him every step of the way. She refused marriage counseling, she refused to spend more time alone with him without the kids. She's refused to address the issues with sex. She didn't appreciate the little gestures he made everyday to show how much he wanted things to get better, for both of them. She didn't want to put the work in because status quo worked for her. And because of it, she's staring a divorce straight in the face. Don't ask me how I know, it's not just his word alone, even though now I firmly believe that I can trust it.

 

So thank you, thank you for teaching me how to make a crappy relationship into a great one. For a long time I didn't think we'd be able to shovel out all the crap that was in the hole, but yesterday he thanked me for not backing down when he didn't want to do the work of fixing things anymore. And that man did some very hard work. Thank you for teaching me how to help myself and someone else become stronger, better people.

 

JessieT

 

You are welcome. I hope you will be happy, he will be happy and his wife will be happy, whether they stay married or part. It's good that you could help him to grow, as IMO that's probably our most important function while on earth - helping others to help themselves. I'm glad that you gathered information from those of us who have also had to "put our foot down" one way or another.

 

As for his "pathetic wife" it's unfortunate that you see her in that light. People are difficult and probably all of us are pathetic in one way or another. Status quo is difficult to see change, as it then forces us to change, and as you've seen with your friend, change is difficult - worthwhile - but difficult. So, if she is, after all, pathetic, it may be that she's had more difficulty than you can see - or it could be just exactly what you do see.

 

Nonetheless, the fact that you have helped another person to grow, become more mature, stronger and more honest, is in my opinion a good thing and something to be proud of.

 

Good luck

Link to post
Share on other sites
×
×
  • Create New...