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We had our BIG CHAT.....roses around the door


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[sIZE=2]Hello all,

Thank you for all your replies on my other post a couple of weeks ago regarding than fact that I felt the need to have a BIG chat with my BF regarding the tings that were making me so unhappy since he separated from his long term GF to be in a relationship with me.

You will remember that these issues were causing me so much internal turmoil that on New Years Eve I just couldn't take it anymore, all those silent voices inside me (not in a psychotic way! lol!) causing me to get stressed over it all, that I decided to say how I was feeling about things to him. We didn't have a BIG chat, just a small one when I told him that I was unhappy about the way he had been treating me and that things need to be changed. Anyway, that conversation concluded by him saying to me that he would, in the New Year sit down and have a serious think about what he was going to do about everything and how we could sort out the issues I had.

Just to re-cap. in case you haven't read my other posts the things I have an issue with are the following:

1) He has not told his ex that he is in a new relationship with me. They officially split up in September 2008 and he has since rented his own flat. However, since their split, he has not told her or his family etc that I exist.....(his mates do know though but not hat we are in love etc). He says the reason for this is two fold; One, he thinks that if his ex knows about me then she will make it difficulty for him to see his child. Secondly, even though he knows our A was wrong, he doesn't want everyone to think he is a bad guy and thinks that if our relationship became known to everyone now then it would look like I was the reason he left his ex and his child. Basically he thinks that everyone would know that we were having an A.

2) Since his split, he has been spending a lot of time "round there" with his ex when seeing his son. By a lot, I mean that he spends 4 days a week round there pretty much all day and into the evening when he puts his son to bed (he works shifts so has 4 days off a week). In addition to that, when he is working nights, he also spends most of the day "round there" before going to work. The general consensus was from people replying to me threads was that this was ridiculous for him to be spending so much time round there in the company of his ex...even if the only reason he was round there was to see his son. Separated people don't do this, its not normal, and it was raising one heck of a big red flag to me. He says its just because its easier, all his sons stuff is at his old house, its cold outside so he cant take him outside all day and lastly, the boy's mother is very possessive and wouldn't like "her son" being taken away for the purposes of contact. Basically, I cant handle him spending what is essentially 5-6 days a week with his ex. That's not fair on me.

Anyway, we had our chat on New Years Eve and he said he would think about everything in the new Year. It was a positive chat and it seemed like he did understand that I was not happy. I guess at that stage all I could do was wait and see what his thoughts manifested into.

I posted on here a few days after the New Year and got a mixed bag of responses, all of which I really took on board and seriously thought about. Most posters told me that this man really was no good for me and that I needed to just end it with him. The others basically said that it did not look good but that if I really loved him I should hold out to see what his actions would be, if no actions materialised then, I did have to end it.

I thought long and hard about ending it then and there. He and I didn't see as much of each other the next week or talk on the phone as much as I made out I was busy and used the time to really think about what it is that I want and the type of relationship that I want to be in. I came to a conclusion and this is it; I am very much in love with this man and in an ideal world I would like us to spend our lives together. However, I also came to the very firm conclusion that this man, no matter how much I love him, could not make me happy if he didn't properly respect me by stopping to treat me like I was still the other woman and if he didn't break most of his ties with his ex (I know they have a child together so she is always going to be in his life but this, for my sake, would have to be at a level I found acceptable). Most importantly, I cant have a relationship with this man if he doesn't want to shout about me from the rooftops, be proud to be my partner, and stop spending this ridiculous amount of time with his ex.

I sat back and waited for him to say to me that he had been thinking about things and that he had come up with some ideas. Half way into January and..... nothing. We have seen each other a few times and had some of the best times together over the past two weeks but I was determined not to bring up this subject even though every time I was away from him it was literally consuming my mind and driving me insane! We were supposed to see each other this Saturday and I had decided enough was enough and I was going to talk to him again and this time, if he had no solutions I was going to break up with him...no matter how hard that would be for me to do.

Well last night he called me, we were having a nice chat and it just felt like the right time to talk to him about how I was feeling...the whole truth. What was supposed to be a ten min conversation turned into a three and a half hour phone call where I told him everything about how I was feeling and what I needed and deserved out of our relationship. I said on here a while ago that I found it really hard to tell him all these things as its a complicated situation but last night I just took a deep breath and decided to let it all out. I though to myself what have I got to lose....if he really does love me he will care about how I'm feeling and if he doesn't then I know now what I need to do.

To sum up our marathon conversation, he asked what I was unhappy about and what I wanted. I said that I wanted him to tell not just his ex, but everyone about us. Not that we have been seeing each other since February last year but that he had met someone else. I said that he made me feel like he was ashamed of me and that he wasn't proud of being my BF as he kept me a secret from the world. I said that I deserved to be with someone who was proud to be with me and wouldn't want to make me feel so worthless by hiding me away. He understood and sounded really upset that I though that he was ashamed to be with me. He said that he was so proud of me and so proud to have me as his girlfriend, that he is so in love with me and didn't want to make me feel the way he has been.

I said so when are you going to tell her (the ex) about me? He said he was just frightened that everyone would think bad of him and that she would take out her pain of finding out about me by stopping him seeing his son. I said that he and his ex had been separated now for almost 6 months and that socially it would be acceptable for him to say that he had, for example, been out one night, met a girl, and was going to go on a date etc. I'm not trying to point score with his ex and I don't care if she never finds out the truth about us, I just want her to know he has met someone else so we can go out in public, anywhere we like and have a normal relationship. I also said that in the course of our normal relationship I wanted for his family to know about me as to be honest, it would be nice to meet these people I have heard so much about and id like to be able to introduce him to my family but I'm not prepared to do so until he is prepared to do the same. He totally understood what I meant and said that he would like nothing better than To introduce the woman he loves to his family. Anyway, I didn't hold back and told him that I want prepared to be a secret anymore. I was the OW for almost a year and now I'm his GF. As his GF I needed to be respected.

Then the biggie...him spending time with his ex. I don't think before when we talked he really understood just how much this hurts me. He got it this time and we spent over an hour talking about it. I said that now he is separated from his ex, she and him need to come to some sort of arrangement regarding their son and how contact will take place. I said that I wanted him to arrange with her when he would see his son and then on those days go and collect him, take him out for the day, and then drop him home. I said I was fine with them being civil and chatting and even him perhaps having lunch round there occasionally, or having a cup of tea and a chat when he picks his son up, bit I wasn't comfortable with his spending all day round there. This topic caused a lot of conversation. He said I had nothing to worry about as he doesn't have any romantic feelings towards her but I said that was irrelevant. He is worried that if he puts it to her that he is going to essentially take her son away from her 4 days a week that she wont have it as her son is "her life". I said that they are now separated and this is what separated people do, they co-parent, not act like they are still a couple. They have to figure out a routine where they share their son.

We talked about so much and its really hard trying to put it all down here but basically I said, in no uncertain terms that if he doesn't tell everyone about us and stop spending so much time with his ex that I couldn't be in a relationship with him as I needed someone who loved me enough to put my feelings up as a high priority. I said to him that if he really does love me like he says he does then he either has to chose to fully commit to our relationship or he should love me enough to let me go...let me go to find someone who will love me the way I deserve to be loved. He started crying when I said this and told me that he loves me with all his heart.

I've basically put down what I said but he said a lot too and it was all constructive. It wasn't a horrible conversation it was actually really nice to me able to have a proper chat about my feelings and have him listen. I cant tell you how much better I felt when we hung up the phone...like a massive weight had been lifted from my shoulders.

Basically I said to him that he now needs to decide if he can be the type of partner to me that I need, Because, in return I'm prepared to give him everything. We were supposed to see each other tonight but he text me earlier asking if we could take a rain check as he wanted to stay at his flat tonight and work out what he needs/can do. I'm scared, really scared but happy at the same time as I know this needs to be done. I'm happy that he is going to spend tonight really focusing on the issues and seeing if he can give me what I need. If he cant then I will have my answer instead of this dragging on for years.

We are seeing each other on Saturday. I guess we will talk about what he has concluded from his time alone.

This really is it I guess. If he tells me he cant do what I need then I really am going to end this relationship. If he really does love me and want to be with me then he will find a way of making this work. He text me earlier saying "I love you so much, please don't worry baby, im trying hard to find answers. Thank you for being so understanding about tonight, I love you x"

What I need, I do not think, is unreasonable. Just that he and I are not a secret and that he doesn't spend large quantities of time with his ex. Basic stuff really for anyone to have a happy relationship.

I am coming to terms with the fact that I may lose him, but it will be my choice. I've decided what it is that I need from a partner and I hope with all my heart he wants to be that man......we shall see.

LC

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Here's some possible outcomes that you might start considering:

 

1. He comes back and says that he's told his wife and his friends about you, and he's changing his schedule so that he's spending more time with his son...WITHOUT his ex. And his actions completely reflect his words

 

2. He comes back and says that he's told his wife and his friends about you, and he's changing his schedule so that he's spending more time with his son...WITHOUT his ex. but, his actions do not change at all

 

3. He comes back and tells you that he can't make the changes you need/want.

 

What's your plan for each of these?

 

Remember...words are one thing...but the true measure of where his heart is at is in his actions.

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I admire your courage.

 

One thing, his ex can't bear to be apart from their two year old for an afternoon? I tell you, I've never met a woman who wouldn't be totally relieved to have daddy take baby away for a few hours and let mummy have some me time.

 

I really don't see what's the big deal of her dropping baby off at his for the day. The reason that doesn't happen is because she wants her boyfriend back. He hasn't said that to you in straight terms, but I bet he knows it.

 

I think you've done the only thing you can. I hope he lives up to your previous image of him as a great guy.

 

If he does, you have to realise that him introducing you to his family means the two of you are going to have to lie about how long you've known each other etc. It's not a great start considering this family could be your family for the next 60 odd years.

 

Maybe he should tell them about you but not introduce you for a few more months? that way you keep the lies to a minimum and less chance of you two slipping up.

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DonnaMaybe - I couldn't have put it better myself. Yes I want him to put his son first, always, but have me by his side all the way.

 

Owl -

 

Scenario 1= Happy Days, I know that if this happens then ive possibly met the man I spend the rest of my life with. Ill be the best GF he could ever ask for, love him and his son completely.

 

Scenario 2= Cant really see how he would pull this off. If he says he has told her then I will feel the shockwaves so I will know if he has or not. We wont have to be selective on where we go for nights out, and ill be introduced to his family and everyone else as his GF. If his actions don't reflect his words then he wont have done what I need...the result will be that I walk away from our relationship.

 

Scenario 3 - I tell him I love him but im sorry, I cant be in a relationship with him. I'll tell him that if he is ever gets to a point where he has completely broken away from the emotional relationship with the ex and can do what I need, then he should give me a call....and if im still single then we can see, but for now its over between us.

 

Your right, its actions now. Actions or I walk. He knows this now. He knows he has someone who loves him with all her heart and would make him happy...its now up to him if he can break away from the ex (the person who made him UNHAPPY) and give me respect. Its actually all very simple now that we have had our BIG CHAT. The cards are on the table and im confident enough to end this is he doesn't really love me. He has to show he loves me by his actions anyone can say just words.

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Question for you. Many partners who do not marry have children and all of the child support, custody, and visitation schedule is arranged by the court. The courts involvement is in no way a refelction of whether or not the partners are amicable - it is to set in writing the logistics and expectations in the best interest of the child. Especially if something should happen to one parent or another.

 

Have they yet made the custody arrangement legal? When they do, he will no longer need to fear his son will be held from him. Until that is done , he will be forced to take the best interest of his ex in mind, only what she wants, for fear of having his son withheld. That is not in the best interest of anyone - especially his son.

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I still don't get the big push for him to tell his family and his ex about you. And, he IS going to look like the bad guy in everyone's eyes because he had NO intention of ending his relationship with her. The affair has changed that and now he has accept things as they are.

 

This still has to be done on his terms and you putting limitations and time frames on it all so you can feel better isn't going to work. The conversation you've had with him atleast may have opened his eyes, but let time show if his actions match his words.

 

His kid is his number one priority and if it means spending time at his ex's place to see his child, so be it. You may have to accept that if you want to remain in his life.

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LC, I think it's GREAT that you're already thinking along these lines.

 

One LAST question...How long are you going to give him to match his actions to his words? Years? Months? Weeks? Days?

 

Set a DAY...a specific day...that he has to have SHOWN you that he's met this criteria. It's up to you whether or not you want to tell him about this deadline...it shouldn't matter if he knows it or not. He should be actively WORKING to meet your needs...so you simply need to ensure that your timeframe is JUST long enough for him to reasonably meet them, but short enough that you're not just sitting there in the same stew you've been in. A week? Ten days? How can it take any longer than that to make these changes?

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melodymatters
I still don't get the big push for him to tell his family and his ex about you. And, he IS going to look like the bad guy in everyone's eyes because he had NO intention of ending his relationship with her. The affair has changed that and now he has accept things as they are.

 

This still has to be done on his terms and you putting limitations and time frames on it all so you can feel better isn't going to work. The conversation you've had with him atleast may have opened his eyes, but let time show if his actions match his words.

 

His kid is his number one priority and if it means spending time at his ex's place to see his child, so be it. You may have to accept that if you want to remain in his life.

 

With all due respect WWIU, as I have always found you to be a voice of reason on this board,:) nothing drives me MORE crazy them the "treating the child as baby jesus and doing whatever the mom/one night stand/ex wife, person wants" theory.

 

I have so been there on BOTH sides. I, was completely reasonable, and wanted my child to know her father, the man I was married to for 7 years,and dealt with ex's who had two week stands, and the mother, remarried and all, needed to call 6 times a day, they needed to go on all fielld trips together, hold a pre-K graduation and a birthday party one week apart, call about mosquito bites and missing yellow socks and ON AND ON AND ON.

 

It's manipulitive game playing at best, and there is definitley a LINE, where you can still be a good parent without basically LIVING with your ex ( 4-5 times a week according to the op) .

 

Children obviously are the highest priority, as they are still forming more or less, but when I see advice that basically says : " let your ex ruin your life, don't have an adult relationship, because it's all for the children, blah blah blah", I want to start slapping random kids at shopping malls !

 

Sure, obsessive, suicidal manipulitive moms, and panty waist dads ( read: pussy) are the BEST environment for the little rat bastard who is likely to be bagging my groceries in 16 yrs.

 

 

Note: I have a lovely well adjusted 15 yr old D, but I subscribed to the old fashioned, daddy and mommy need to work, support 11 kids and if you don't like your meatloaf, tough beans, school of parenting !

 

OP, hope that wasn't off topic, but as someone who has dealt with ex and child problems, I wanted you to know that I feel like the adults in the R get to have feelings and needs TOO !:)

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With all due respect WWIU, as I have always found you to be a voice of reason on this board,:) nothing drives me MORE crazy them the "treating the child as baby jesus and doing whatever the mom/one night stand/ex wife, person wants" theory.

 

I have so been there on BOTH sides. I, was completely reasonable, and wanted my child to know her father, the man I was married to for 7 years,and dealt with ex's who had two week stands, and the mother, remarried and all, needed to call 6 times a day, they needed to go on all fielld trips together, hold a pre-K graduation and a birthday party one week apart, call about mosquito bites and missing yellow socks and ON AND ON AND ON.

 

It's manipulitive game playing at best, and there is definitley a LINE, where you can still be a good parent without basically LIVING with your ex ( 4-5 times a week according to the op) .

 

Children obviously are the highest priority, as they are still forming more or less, but when I see advice that basically says : " let your ex ruin your life, don't have an adult relationship, because it's all for the children, blah blah blah", I want to start slapping random kids at shopping malls !

 

Sure, obsessive, suicidal manipulitive moms, and panty waist dads ( read: pussy) are the BEST environment for the little rat bastard who is likely to be bagging my groceries in 16 yrs.

 

 

Note: I have a lovely well adjusted 15 yr old D, but I subscribed to the old fashioned, daddy and mommy need to work, support 11 kids and if you don't like your meatloaf, tough beans, school of parenting !

 

OP, hope that wasn't off topic, but as someone who has dealt with ex and child problems, I wanted you to know that I feel like the adults in the R get to have feelings and needs TOO !:)

wow, thats all I can say...great post I must say, there is a limit to everything... you sure made me laugh on this one!!
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[sIZE=2]MelodyMatters - you just made me laugh too! I know exactly what you mean. I know kids to have to be a priority in a parents life but I don't think the parents' relationships with a new partner have to suffer or be treated as second class. I want nothing more than for my BF to be a great dad, but he also has to be a great BF to me if he wants me in his life.

 

2sure - I agree that the custody arrangements and contact arrangements should be set our legally but my BF doesn't want to "make it messy" by taking it to Court. Don't get me started on this! lol! It would be the best thing all round, then everyone would be clear. Heck, they could even go to mediation and draw up a parenting agreement so it doesn't have to go to could but he wont do this as he says his ex "is impossible to talk to". Anyway, ive sort of given up talking about the Court route as I know it just falls on deaf ears....and ive talked about it so much with him that its now just a frustrating conversation.

 

Owl - how long will I give him. Tough question as from our A im sick of saying to him for example " I need you to leave her by 13 June " etc. Basically if he says he can do what I need and we stay together then I don't see why things cant be pretty much instant. He could talk to her about how contact is going to take place the next time he sees her and start doing what he says he will do from that day forward I guess. With regards to telling her about me I guess he has to find the right moment for him to tell her. I know there will never be a good time but he should be able to pick a time I think without me dictating it. But by this I mean telling her very soon about us...like within the next month maximum, but I don't want to say...you have to tell her at 1 o'clock, next Thursday or anything like that.

 

A little update.....

 

Last night he obviously asked to have a think about things instead of seeing me. He text me when I was on my way home from work and said "don't worry, I don't want to lose you x". After that he didn't call me all night or text me to say goodnight like he usually does. I sort of thought he wouldn't but my stomach had knots in it all evening and I kept looking at my phone.....I resisted the temptation to call or text him though and stayed strong....it was very hard!

 

This morning he text me and said good morning. I was relieved to hear from him. He then called me just as I got to work and told me that last night he did a lot of research about the things we had talked about (on the net I guess....god hope he doesn't stumble on this forum! lol!) and that he had also spoken on the phone to a relationship counsellor (the same one he spoke to while we were having the A when he was trying to decide what he should do). I must say im quite impressed that he made the effort to do that, he really must have understood how important these things are to me. He was at playgroup with his son when we spoke so he couldn't go into detail about what the counsellor had said but said he would talk to me about it on Saturday when we see each other. I have a very bad habit on needing to know everything and he could sense I really wanted to know what she said which was funny. He said that "she said what I expected her to say" and "it has given me a lot to think about and I hope that we (he and I ) can work through this".

 

Im not sure what all that means...it could be looked at both ways I guess and I wont know the truth about it all until tomorrow...but what do you all think...positive/negative.....it must be good that he made the effort to do some research hey?

 

Lol so tomorrow is D-Day!

 

LC

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I hope things go well tomorrow. It sounds like he is now acknowledging that he has a lot of work to do emotionally around the separation.

 

Couple of things: First his x is obviously not THAT impossible to talk to - hes with her all the bloody time so they must talk about something. What he means is he doesnt want the confrontation.

 

More important is the dynamic that has developed. Semantics are telling in situations like this. He texted you and said "dont worry I dont want to lose you"

 

That is very sweet in many ways but it also says something. HE is the one who should be worried. Take away the dont worry and the sentence has a much different emotional tone. He feels he is calling the shots. That has been clear all along but the text emphasises it.

 

Youve done great in letting him come to you. You need to stand your ground. If he says he needs time etc etc thats fine. Time is infinite. Hes got all the time in the world. But it doesnt mean that you are going to wait around. You are young. These are the best years of your life and you are not going to spend them waiting around for some man who cant decide what he wants.

 

And no matter HOW he spins it at this point, if he is not clear on being with you and making formal arrangements with regard to his son, it means he is not clear.

 

And you know the saying, if you dont know what you want, you dont want what you have (or not badly enough).

 

Hang in there.

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We talked about so much and its really hard trying to put it all down here but basically I said, in no uncertain terms that if he doesn't tell everyone about us and stop spending so much time with his ex that I couldn't be in a relationship with him as I needed someone who loved me enough to put my feelings up as a high priority. I said to him that if he really does love me like he says he does then he either has to chose to fully commit to our relationship or he should love me enough to let me go...let me go to find someone who will love me the way I deserve to be loved. He started crying when I said this and told me that he loves me with all his heart

 

... He then called me just as I got to work and told me that last night he did a lot of research about the things we had talked about (on the net I guess....god hope he doesn't stumble on this forum! lol!) and that he had also spoken on the phone to a relationship counsellor (the same one he spoke to while we were having the A when he was trying to decide what he should do). I must say im quite impressed that he made the effort to do that, he really must have understood how important these things are to me.

 

LC, I can't tell you how pleased I am to read all this. So impressed that you finally told him all the things that were on your mind, and laid out what you need and expect in a relationship. Yes, it is all up to him now, and it looks like he's made a good start.

 

I think you basically can't go too wrong with this approach, letting him know what you need, and watching to see if he follows through with actions that are satisfactory to you. No reason why you should be hidden, second-best or anything else, just because you once were the OW.

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He texted you and said "dont worry I dont want to lose you"

 

That is very sweet in many ways but it also says something. HE is the one who should be worried. Take away the dont worry and the sentence has a much different emotional tone. He feels he is calling the shots. That has been clear all along but the text emphasises it.

 

jj, I don't know where you are, but this 'don't worry' thing is just a manner of speaking in the UK. It's more 'rest assured', 'you have my word' or something along those lines. OK maybe you're in the UK too in which case I'm going to look like an arse :laugh:, but I'm forever saying 'don't worry', and I don't mean to imply any actual 'worrying' on the part of the person I'm talking to. So LC's b/f may be using the phrase in the same sense.

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with all due respect, ladycakes, it seems to me like you know what you want in a relationship. and that is great. i think you deserve to be in a relationship with less baggage. this guy has a LOT of history with this woman, and yes they separated, but there are still feelings, no matter what he is feeding you (i've seen this plenty of times). it's hard to just turn someone completely off like that from someone's life after so long. yes, you do deserve to have what you want in a relationship. but this situation doesn't seem like it's going to provide that for you because he will always do what he wants to do regarding his ex and family. he may comply for now, but over time he will resent you. it's like you're trying to force this situation to work out for you. stand up for yourself and take charge. find a man who is available. who knows what he could be telling his friends and family. all you know is what he tells YOU.

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... this guy has a LOT of history with this woman, and yes they separated, but there are still feelings, no matter what he is feeding you (i've seen this plenty of times). it's hard to just turn someone completely off like that from someone's life after so long.

 

... find a man who is available.

 

I know this is meant to help, but look at the irony in what you're saying. Why are OW always told to 'just find someone else', as if it were the easiest thing in the world?

 

Not meaning to criticise, just... ack, if 'just find someone else' really ever solved anything there would be no need for LS.

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Man, ladyCakes, I keep coming back here and finding you still in the same position, spinning your wheels.

 

This guy is jerking you OFF. I'm a man, and no man in love with a woman needs time to think about it. Or time alone to "analyze" things.

 

You've laid things on the table plenty. He's known, and knows what you want.

 

That is why you are insecure. You KNOW he KNOWS, yet you think one more conversation with him is going to bring him running. It ain't happening.

 

A man doesn't have to be talked into love, or into a relationship that HE WANTS to have.

 

Every time you have a "conversation" with this guy you're left with more questions than answers. After all this time, do you really think that is an accident????????

 

Here's a test: go have another "big talk"

 

See if you have more questions than answers after that one. Do REALLY and I mean REALLY believe after ALL these "big talks", "little talks" etc.. that he is going to suddenly give you EVERYTHING? Himself, the truth ... the love you deserve?

 

He's simply happy to listen to your "big talks", and tell you that you made good points for him to think about, all the while knowing that simply listening to you will calm you down for a few days and at the same time guarantees you don't tell his wife.

 

He's either a classic cake-eater, or he's a seriously weak man. Either way, you're screwing yourself by sticking around. I'll keep saying it: you want roses around your door? Then get away from this guy because it's the ONLY way you're ever getting them.

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Excellent post reply DH.

 

He's simply happy to listen to your "big talks", and tell you that you made good points for him to think about, all the while knowing that simply listening to you will calm you down for a few days and at the same time guarantees you don't tell his wife.

I agree 100% with this. He will listen to you, tell you what you want to hear, give you abit of hope, but infact he'll end up doing nothing. Same old, same old..

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frannie, i understand what you're saying. i've been in the same position, and learning from the same situations, it's either that or being in the same predicament forever. i'm not just going to tell her things to give her false hope. i'm going to be honest. i hate seeing people hurt. Plus, i agree with the previous poster. you shouldn't have to talk someone into loving you. Nor should he have to think about things if he really was in love. it's easier said than done, but either find someone else or continue to be jerked around.

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frannie, i understand what you're saying. i've been in the same position, and learning from the same situations, it's either that or being in the same predicament forever. i'm not just going to tell her things to give her hope. i'm going to be honest. i hate seeing people hurt.
I agree.

 

There are posters here on this forum that have no interest in helping people who are in really bad situations, and who's only interest seems to be justifying their own behaviour by using people here as a proxy.

 

After reading this whole thread I find some posts bordering on the cruel in the way they seem to like to encourage people into continuing behavior that is clearly detrimental to them, if not physically, certainly mentally.

 

JJ33 was right on with the comments made and frannie's reply was stupefying.

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I know this is meant to help, but look at the irony in what you're saying. Why are OW always told to 'just find someone else', as if it were the easiest thing in the world?

 

Not meaning to criticise, just... ack, if 'just find someone else' really ever solved anything there would be no need for LS.

 

I am guilty of telling OW this. And OM. But obviously I don't mean RIGHT AWAY, I mean take your time, heal and then find a single person who can give ALL him/herself instead of just bits and pieces on his/her time frame.

 

This man isn't "hers" and never was...She may think he is and he may have acted like he has at times, but the bottomline is, he isn't. Sorry..

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This guy is jerking you OFF. I'm a man, and no man in love with a woman needs time to think about it. Or time alone to "analyze" things.

 

I agree - that's the part that really makes no sense to me. What is it that he needed time "think" about, so MUCH so that he couldn't actually spend time WITH LC the night they were supposed to see each other.

 

She asked for two things: tell people that they're dating, including his ex, and start seeing his son at his own place, not at hers all the time.

 

What exactly needs analysis and thought to meet those two requests? It should be pretty easy to start telling friends that he's dating and has met someone. He doesn't need to make some big to-do, just mention it when they say, Hey Joe, how are you doing?

 

He's afraid of confrontation with his ex, so he'll take longer to find the "right" time to tell her he's dating, but how does that require thought? He can bring it up when he's dropping his son off. "Must get going, I have a date tonight, but I'll pick him up again on Tuesday."

 

And for his son, well, sounds like he's already taking him OUT of the house to playgroup, so what's the big deal to just continue taking him OUT of the house and over to his place?

 

NONE of this requires evenings and evenings worth of thought, googling anything on the internet, or discussions with counselors. UNLESS, he doesn't actually want to do any of it because he's still not certain that he truly wants to make his separation permanent.

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LC, this might sound harsh but... I don't see the progress here.

 

Is this guy really that thick that he hasn't understood what's making you unhappy?

 

Is he really that self-absorbed that he's unable to imagine how you might want things to be different?

 

Is he really that emotionally crippled that he's unable to draw a line in the sand with his "x"GF and step over it, and tell her that IT'S OVER gently but firmly, for her own good as well as yours but mostly HIS OWN?

 

Is he really that moronic that he thinks he's doing his kid a favour by not making the changes now while the kid is young and adaptable enough to get used to them and unquestioning enough to accept them without the kind of explanations required later when he's older?

 

Is he really unaware that he doesn't know that all over the planet, the survivors of the half of marriages that break down have forged perfectly serviceable custody and visitation schedules which don't involve pretending (to the kids, or to each other) that the parents are still together?

 

Is he really that stupid that he thinks "softly softly" works better than "clearly clearly", both in the long term and the short term?

 

Either this guy is a box of serious limitations and weaknesses - which you'll have to accept him for and be prepared to live with forever after - or he's pretending to be that, working on your sympathy because "oh shame, he's just left a long relationship and needs to be handled with care", while getting an easy ride and having it all ways so that he doesn't have to give anything up.

 

I don't see a third option. Weak, stupid and self-absorbed, or a master manipulator.

 

That's fine if you're happy with him the way he is. But expecting him to change - or things to change, even - is likely to leave you frustrated.

 

I've been through this whole separation thing - my fMM was M for more than 30 years - and I know how intense it can be. But I also know, from him and other friends I've seen through this, that they don't cling and carry on pretending to be together once they've left - IF THEY'RE SERIOUS ABOUT LEAVING. His behaviour suggests - no, screams - that he's still unsure, that he's leaving a door open for himself to slip back through (if, in fact, he's gone through it at all!) and that he wants to keep it that way.

 

When my MM moved out, he announced it to the world! When we moved in together, we made a splash! Every txt, email or call to anyone in a social context was signed from both of us. Every communication with any service person - like the guy coming to fix the phone - was flagged with "myself and my partner" to underline my status and our situation. When we went out with the kids, it was clear WE were the family. He couldn't shout it loud enough! This is typical of what escaping men do, to put the past behind them as far and fast as possible. I don't see that happening here. I see clinging to the past and some very small, slight and unhappy compromises in your direction.

 

If he knew what he wanted, he'd be doing it and getting it - not thinking about it.

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frannie, i understand what you're saying. i've been in the same position, and learning from the same situations, it's either that or being in the same predicament forever. i'm not just going to tell her things to give her false hope. i'm going to be honest. i hate seeing people hurt. Plus, i agree with the previous poster. you shouldn't have to talk someone into loving you. Nor should he have to think about things if he really was in love. it's easier said than done, but either find someone else or continue to be jerked around.

 

After reading this whole thread I find some posts bordering on the cruel in the way they seem to like to encourage people into continuing behavior that is clearly detrimental to them, if not physically, certainly mentally.

 

JJ33 was right on with the comments made and frannie's reply was stupefying.

 

I'm sorry that some people are finding my approach stupefying.

 

I simply feel that if you want to see whether someone is going to step up to the plate, you have to first tell them what it is you want. LC spent a long time hoping things would change and not telling him what she needed. That was getting her nowhere. IF you want to know if his actions are going to follow his words, you first need to tell him what it is you want.

 

That way, when he fails, it will be clear as day. You have your answer, and you can move on, knowing things were not going to work out.

 

It has taken LC a long time to get to the point of actually articulating her needs. He has now laid out what he's going to do. He's making small steps in the right direction. Now it will be easy and clear for LC to monitor his progress (or lack of it).

 

Not everyone moves out in the same way. Not everyone wants or needs to 'make a splash'. It's futile to compare situations, because everyone is different. The only thing I believe you can do is to look for actions.

 

LC should see in the coming weeks and months whether he follows through on what he's said he'll do. And then she'll have her answers. And it will be a lot easier than walking away simply because 'the man has too much baggage' or whatever.

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jj, I don't know where you are, but this 'don't worry' thing is just a manner of speaking in the UK. It's more 'rest assured', 'you have my word' or something along those lines. OK maybe you're in the UK too in which case I'm going to look like an arse :laugh:, but I'm forever saying 'don't worry', and I don't mean to imply any actual 'worrying' on the part of the person I'm talking to. So LC's b/f may be using the phrase in the same sense.

 

Thanks Frannie. I lived in the UK for many years and am very familiar with English culture/use of language and English men.

 

I think LC is being led down the garden path and there are no roses round the door. You and I simply view this differently.

 

I am typically very generous -- far too much so -- with men and giving them time to sort themselves out. But in my view, this man is bad news for LC. There is no reason he has to go 'round hers to see the child and basically live there half the time unless he wants it that way.

 

LC should walk away and let get on with her life. If he doesnt realise she is the best thing to happen to him, then that is his loss. Time passes quickly before she knows it another 6 months will have passed and nothing will have changed. She has been in this position for months. Its cruel.

 

Cheers!

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I'm sorry that some people are finding my approach stupefying.

 

I simply feel that if you want to see whether someone is going to step up to the plate, you have to first tell them what it is you want. LC spent a long time hoping things would change and not telling him what she needed. That was getting her nowhere. IF you want to know if his actions are going to follow his words, you first need to tell him what it is you want.

 

That way, when he fails, it will be clear as day. You have your answer, and you can move on, knowing things were not going to work out.

 

It has taken LC a long time to get to the point of actually articulating her needs. He has now laid out what he's going to do. He's making small steps in the right direction. Now it will be easy and clear for LC to monitor his progress (or lack of it).

 

Not everyone moves out in the same way. Not everyone wants or needs to 'make a splash'. It's futile to compare situations, because everyone is different. The only thing I believe you can do is to look for actions.

 

LC should see in the coming weeks and months whether he follows through on what he's said he'll do. And then she'll have her answers. And it will be a lot easier than walking away simply because 'the man has too much baggage' or whatever.

 

The reason we see it differently (I think) is that you think she hasnt told him. She did and he told her to "write a list" wtf?

 

He got it. He is just stalling. And he has been stalling. None of this is rocket science. And looking at the actions he is doing nothing but say oh yes darling I am listening and then doing nothing. His actions are not impressive.

 

While I agree that saying find someone else is not as easy as it is to type the words perhaps your response is telling. "if just find someone else ever solved anything there would be no need for LS"

 

Just because its not easy to find someone new is NO reason to keep herself in a bad situation. The longer she stays the longer she delays finding someone new. Life is short and precious. This man is a waste of her time.

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