I am the OW - Need Input

[Sandy223]

Well, here goes ... the MM has been chasing me for two years .. finally convinced me (through actions and words) that his intention with me was explore what we had because he thinks it's real, to see if it could go anywhere .... I am giving it a shot. Without going into too much detail now, I have been very balanced about the whole thing ... continue to date others and won't let him take over my life. The times we spend together are enjoyable, and I am enjoying our time together getting to know him. We went away for a long weekend, I see him once a week, we talk almost everyday.

 

Did I really think this was going to be bliss? I knew this was a horrible situation to put myself in, and I thought I had control over it ... which I still believe I have ... but, here is "today's" problem. Now, like in every relationship, he is getting comfortable ... last week he left some of his stuff at my house, etc... (and it made me feel suffocated ... this man has not yet made any commitment to me, and is still married) ... Like every MM, they want to have their cake and eat it too ... why get divorced when they could keep their marraige and finances intact and enjoy us on the side??? Seems a lot easier to me ...

 

... I have to make him think now, and have to bring him back to his original intention -- explore getting to know me and the connection with me ... last two times we were together, he talks about his wife, what they do together, their trips, family, etc... when I talked about my ex-boyfriend he got mad ... but, I didn't say anything ...

 

... I do not want him to go into his comfort zone, trying to get me to accept the fact (peacefully) that he is married (this way, he could tell me he told me so later? i don't think so) .... so, this is what I want to say to him ... and wanted your feedback and advice ...

 

"I overstepped my boundaries with you because you told me, and I beleived, that you wanted to see if this could go anywhere. Just an obvervation - but you talk about your wife and life together with me all the time. I understand, but even if I didn't, that's not the point. Point is, it makes me question if what we are doing makes sense at all .... Why talk about her with me, when you could just be with her, working on that relationship? Only you know that, but, what I do know is that while you talk about her with me, you are not exploring your connection with me ... and that was the whole point. I am not messing around with some married guy because I have nothing better to do, nor will I compete with anyone or try to force anything. That's all"

 

So, what do you think? The truth is, I am in love with him and believe he is in love with me ... but I really don't want to force anything - I want to be with the person who wants to be with me ... and, if he really does love his wife, then he should be with her ... bottom line is this: I am not afraid of this ending because I have nothing to lose ... if I say this to him, I am breaking his pattern, or at least not letting him get away with it ... and, if he wants me, he will at least have pause now to perhpas think about what he is doing and what he wants ... I know what I want ...

 

I want to be with the man who loves me ... wheather it's him or someone else ... what I don't want is to become someone entertainment center or respite from reality ....

 

... every step of the way I am ready to let him go ... but the connection we have really is strong .. .at least strong enough for me to say something, instead of just walking away and saying goodbye with no explanation.

 

... he could be talking about her out of habit, or maybe because he is actively manipulating me ... or maybe it's his way of putting blocks up (subconsiously) from getting too into our connection because he is physcially not ready to leave .... either way, I know that I cannot continue spending time with him if he keeps talking about his home life with me ... it's not enjoyable to me, and it's not exploring our relationship together... frankly, it's a big waste of time ...

 

... even in "normal" relationhships, men seek their comfort zone ... weather it's in the form of wanting to sit home on the couch every night, go out with the boys or not picking up after themselves. As women, it is our role to recognize this and not let them get away with it ... hey, i can't roll over dead now (after this man has been chasing me for years) and let him get away with leaving his stuff at my house, and talking about his home life ... at some point he will have to make a choice (as I will too), and fish or cut bait ... but, it has to be his choice. The point is ... if I don't nip this in the bud, and don't make sure that he stays on course by spending his time with me exploring our connection (regardless of the outcome), then he will stop examining his feelings for me ... good or bad ... and we will just end up in this rut .. which is not good for anyone.

 

whew ... this is exhausitng ... I want to bring him back to the original plan ... "to spend time with me to explore OUR connection together to see if this could go anywhere" .... don't want him to fall into this comfort zone now thinking that he could have me no matter what ... he just started getting into this comfort zone, and I want to nip it in the bud .. even if it means the relationship ends ... if I don't give him pause to at least think about what he is doing, and just roll over .. then i am going to be in serious trouble.

[whichwayisup]

Why are you trying to build something with him, reconnect and get close? He's married and isn't ever going to leave his wife and kids.

 

The best way to handle this is - BREAK IT OFF WITH HIM and tell him that WHEN he divorces, you two can pick up where you left off. Until then, end it.

 

He isn't going to put in alot of effort because he's married and has a wife and a family. He sees you as the OW, someone on the side. And yes, the more he talks about his kids, his life at home with his wife, it SHOULD piss you off - Enough to break up with him because he is telling you in his own way, he isn't leaving them for you. If you want an affair, to be the OW, a secret, second fiddle, stick with him. If you want more, you won't find it with him.

 

Why put yourself through all this? Why help him cheat on his wife, betray his whole family? Put yourself in his wife's shoes. Why help yourself to another woman's husband? Forget that he chased you, you said yes and have had a willing part in this affair.

 

I hope you realize you deserve better and get the strength to finally tell him goodbye and cut him out of your life so you can heal and find someone else worthy of your love and affection.

[Sandy223]

thank you whichwayisup ... i really appreciate your advice, and is what I feel in my heart at this point ... he did say he wanted to explore us ... assuming I cannot get the strength to break this off ASAP, which is really what I SHOULD do ... I am still planning on telling him what I said in my post ... I assume that after that he will step back from me, and then I could ease my way out of it ... I have two dates next week with available men. I don't want to cut it off abruptly with the MM, I want to leave the door open ... but more than that, I want to handle it like a lady.

 

I want to tell him why, and bring it to his attention that it is because he told me that we were together to explore our feelings for each other, and that is not what is going on ... he is putting up buffers, I think, so i don't get any expectations, and to keep thing in his control... and then to leave stuff at my house? That made me feel suffocated ... like he was planning on getting as much as he could out of me, without giving me anything in return.

[norajane]

I want to bring him back to the original plan ... "to spend time with me to explore OUR connection together to see if this could go anywhere"

That's YOUR plan, not his. And that plan only works with SINGLE men, not married ones.

 

With married ones, it means he has absolutely no intention or desire or plan to leave his wife. However, he can use the "explore our connection" thing to get you to agree to an affair, which he will continue as long as you let him. And it sets up this challenge to you to PROVE to him that you are so much BETTER than his wife, or he won't leave her (not that he is going to leave her no matter what you do or what kind of connection you think you have).

 

He already has a connection with someone - his wife. And it comes with a marriage license, a home, joint finances, families, and a combined life together. You are the mistress on the side now, and he's loving every minute of it. Lucky him. Poor you. Poor wife.

 

Drop this loser unless you want years of anguish. The longer you stay with him, the more connected YOU will feel, and the harder it will be to end it.

[Married One]

Yes, YOU definitely deserve better.

 

And I will almost say, he is NOT worth it. Just reading your "report", you can tell this man hasn't "got it" yet. Either that, or he is just taking advantage of you and the situation, which from your long post, thankfully, by your taking the time to write, YOU are recognising that!

 

If you re-read your post, you know that you are basically repeating and repeating (I hope you will understand my reason for being so crude is only because I feel rather passionate about this, and just care enough to want to alert you) :

1. He neede an outlet, an escape from his own marital problems.

 

2. Lucikily, he found you! (but unfortunately, you have fallen in love with him, and if it's not too late, halt it at that for now, for your own protection! ...which you also seem to know, in your writing, but, of course, it's always easier said than done!)

 

3. He then started to take you for granted

 

4. And yest, because of that, you do SOUND like his entertainment club that he can go to anytime, store things there anytime etc.

 

5. If you do not break this pattern, nobody benefits, NOT you, not him, not his wife or family.

 

Therefore, yes, put your foot down. He has to make decisions, and take/show actions. Taking into consideration everything, perhaps it's best that two of you decide on a timeframe in which a drastic change has to happen. That is, either if things remain the same as now, you break from him. He's allowed to present his case about the time he needs, the obstacles he has etc., but YOU will have the right to say how long you would want to give him.

 

This is because you do not sound like you actually "enjoy" being the OW. Like many, we would want to see that we would be the proper "legal" partner in the end, and NOT the OW forever. All the best!

Well, here goes ... the MM has been chasing me for two years .. finally convinced me (through actions and words) that his intention with me was explore what we had because he thinks it's real, to see if it could go anywhere .... I am giving it a shot. Without going into too much detail now, I have been very balanced about the whole thing ... continue to date others and won't let him take over my life. The times we spend together are enjoyable, and I am enjoying our time together getting to know him. We went away for a long weekend, I see him once a week, we talk almost everyday.

 

Did I really think this was going to be bliss? I knew this was a horrible situation to put myself in, and I thought I had control over it ... which I still believe I have ... but, here is "today's" problem. Now, like in every relationship, he is getting comfortable ... last week he left some of his stuff at my house, etc... (and it made me feel suffocated ... this man has not yet made any commitment to me, and is still married) ... Like every MM, they want to have their cake and eat it too ... why get divorced when they could keep their marraige and finances intact and enjoy us on the side??? Seems a lot easier to me ...

 

... I have to make him think now, and have to bring him back to his original intention -- explore getting to know me and the connection with me ... last two times we were together, he talks about his wife, what they do together, their trips, family, etc... when I talked about my ex-boyfriend he got mad ... but, I didn't say anything ...

 

... I do not want him to go into his comfort zone, trying to get me to accept the fact (peacefully) that he is married (this way, he could tell me he told me so later? i don't think so) .... so, this is what I want to say to him ... and wanted your feedback and advice ...

 

"I overstepped my boundaries with you because you told me, and I beleived, that you wanted to see if this could go anywhere. Just an obvervation - but you talk about your wife and life together with me all the time. I understand, but even if I didn't, that's not the point. Point is, it makes me question if what we are doing makes sense at all .... Why talk about her with me, when you could just be with her, working on that relationship? Only you know that, but, what I do know is that while you talk about her with me, you are not exploring your connection with me ... and that was the whole point. I am not messing around with some married guy because I have nothing better to do, nor will I compete with anyone or try to force anything. That's all"

 

So, what do you think? The truth is, I am in love with him and believe he is in love with me ... but I really don't want to force anything - I want to be with the person who wants to be with me ... and, if he really does love his wife, then he should be with her ... bottom line is this: I am not afraid of this ending because I have nothing to lose ... if I say this to him, I am breaking his pattern, or at least not letting him get away with it ... and, if he wants me, he will at least have pause now to perhpas think about what he is doing and what he wants ... I know what I want ...

 

I want to be with the man who loves me ... wheather it's him or someone else ... what I don't want is to become someone entertainment center or respite from reality ....

 

... every step of the way I am ready to let him go ... but the connection we have really is strong .. .at least strong enough for me to say something, instead of just walking away and saying goodbye with no explanation.

 

... he could be talking about her out of habit, or maybe because he is actively manipulating me ... or maybe it's his way of putting blocks up (subconsiously) from getting too into our connection because he is physcially not ready to leave .... either way, I know that I cannot continue spending time with him if he keeps talking about his home life with me ... it's not enjoyable to me, and it's not exploring our relationship together... frankly, it's a big waste of time ...

 

... even in "normal" relationhships, men seek their comfort zone ... weather it's in the form of wanting to sit home on the couch every night, go out with the boys or not picking up after themselves. As women, it is our role to recognize this and not let them get away with it ... hey, i can't roll over dead now (after this man has been chasing me for years) and let him get away with leaving his stuff at my house, and talking about his home life ... at some point he will have to make a choice (as I will too), and fish or cut bait ... but, it has to be his choice. The point is ... if I don't nip this in the bud, and don't make sure that he stays on course by spending his time with me exploring our connection (regardless of the outcome), then he will stop examining his feelings for me ... good or bad ... and we will just end up in this rut .. which is not good for anyone.

 

whew ... this is exhausitng ... I want to bring him back to the original plan ... "to spend time with me to explore OUR connection together to see if this could go anywhere" .... don't want him to fall into this comfort zone now thinking that he could have me no matter what ... he just started getting into this comfort zone, and I want to nip it in the bud .. even if it means the relationship ends ... if I don't give him pause to at least think about what he is doing, and just roll over .. then i am going to be in serious trouble.

[Married One]

Yes, listen to your heart - he is taking you for granted. I've read others' post to you and your reply.

 

And after writing the first message to you, now I am even more definite that you SHOULD "dump" him, at least for as long as you like. And right, good for you, go for as many dates as you want. After months, you may even look back and have a completely different picture - a much clearer picture than you have today.

 

thank you whichwayisup ... i really appreciate your advice, and is what I feel in my heart at this point ... he did say he wanted to explore us ... assuming I cannot get the strength to break this off ASAP, which is really what I SHOULD do ... I am still planning on telling him what I said in my post ... I assume that after that he will step back from me, and then I could ease my way out of it ... I have two dates next week with available men. I don't want to cut it off abruptly with the MM, I want to leave the door open ... but more than that, I want to handle it like a lady.

 

I want to tell him why, and bring it to his attention that it is because he told me that we were together to explore our feelings for each other, and that is not what is going on ... he is putting up buffers, I think, so i don't get any expectations, and to keep thing in his control... and then to leave stuff at my house? That made me feel suffocated ... like he was planning on getting as much as he could out of me, without giving me anything in return.

[Sandy223]

Thank you both!!! I feel sick right now. My cousin just had a fit on me. He is 55 years old and has been divorced from my second cousin for over 10 years. We are still very close. He told me to dump him too - of course, he doesn't want to see me get hurt.

 

I feel like such a jerk for falling in love with him ... Married, I did like your response as well, and you were not being crude at all ... you are both trying to help me.

 

My heart is telling me that he is just starting to take the situation for granted ... it really annoyed me that he left stuff at my house! I just don't know that I am ready to completely dump him right now. But, I do know one thing: I definitely need an emotional break from this, which I intend to take. I will never, I have vowed to myself, ever see him when I am feeling off balance by this ... ever!

 

So, given the situation, what my cousin advised was to just say what I was going to say, but to shorten it a abit ... and end it with "when you do X, you are not exploring our connection, which was the whole point, so I would appreciate it if you didn't do that."

 

He thought adding that in the end would show strength, which is what I need to do in this case, along with becoming stronger on my own. My cousin also thinks he might be bringing up the W in order to have the upper hand in the situation, and like you said in your post, to put me in a position to start competing with her ... which would do nothing but make me look like an a##.

 

Which is another reason I don't want him talking about her ... it's really bad enough that i am doing this .... Perhpas he will get angry after I put my foot down, which will seal the deal for me ... but, in either event, I am not going to see him this week. This has, as you can imagine, drained the hell out of me ... right now he is home, and happy as a lark because he has his stable family home, and his cute little girlfriend too ....

 

.... I cannot talk about the wife with him ... not only is it diluting our time togeher , but frankly, it's also making me feel really guilty ... like i am invading her life ... he is the one who is cheating on her, not me... but, then again, I guuess I am too ... so when he brings her up, it's harder for me to swallow. So, I guess he is bringing her up on purpose .... to make me guilty with him, and to keep me as a buffer ... so, if we even do get closer and I give him an ultimatum (which I would never do anyway) he could then throw it in my face and say "I told you all about my wife ... I told you over and over again about my marraige. What don't you get? I am married." This way he has a chip to pull if I started voicing my desire to want more.

 

... Now I am really upset. What I plan on doing is hopefully taking the day off tomorrow from thinking about this ... it has frankly made me sick to my stomach!!! And, then when I talk to him on monday, I will just tell him what I said I would say, and then just put our next meeting on hold ... this has taken a big bite out of me and I have two dates this week!

 

Those dates are very important to me, so I need to snap out of this quickly. One promise I made to myself at the beginning was that if I decided to get involved with this MM, I would put an equal amount (if not more) effort into the rest of my dating life ... for every one night I go out with him ... I need two nights out with available men. That was the promise I made to myself. I AM NOT GOING TO LET HIM DESTROY THE REST OF MY LIFE. And, I am not going to let him takeover my life ... leaving his stuff all over my house, and then coming here and talking about his wife and family. I feel like throwing up right now!

 

I don't feel comfortable now at all ... and I really do think he is going to be surprised on monday at the pull back ... I have never told him that I loved him, but he probably sensed it (he did tell me once, over the phone, but I just pretended I didn't hear it because I wasn't ready to say it back) ... so he is not going to be expecting this, but that is not why I am doing it ...

 

I have to protect myself ... so thank you again, so much for taking the time to respond and support me ... even though I am doing soemthing which is morally wrong.

[norajane]

I need two nights out with available men

 

There's all the answer you need - you already KNOW he is not an available man. So why waste any more of your time with him?

 

If you love him, it will be really hard to open your heart to any other man...

[frannie]

Hello Sandy.

 

I tried the whole 'explore our relationship' thing too, for a year he was here two or three nights a week and we basically lived together part-time. It was great, but it wasn't exploring anything, it was having an affair.

 

Basically MM will only see this: that he can have his cake and eat it. I know you've realised this, and that's why you're feeling so annoyed. It's good that you have, and I really think that you need to put your foot down with him, as everyone else says.

 

The longer you 'explore' things with him, the cosier he'll get, but he won't be any closer to making any decision to leave home. Besides which, his leaving should be (and would be) based solely on how bad things are there, not how good they are (or could be) with you.

[LucreziaBorgia]

It sounds like he just wants to date you and not marry you. A married guy has the best excuse in the world for keeping it casual - they are already married.

 

Don't think of it as he can't be with you in the way you want. Look at it as he doensn't want to be with you in the way you want.

 

Its not any different than a single guy who wants to date and keep it casual. This guy just has an easier time keeping it casual with you, and an easier time convincing you that he 'wants more' but "just can't". His marriage is an excuse, not a roadblock.

 

Don't fall for it.

 

If he wanted more - as in, he wants a future with you and only you he would find a way to do that.

[OWoman]

Besides which, his leaving should be (and would be) based solely on how bad things are there, not how good they are (or could be) with you.

 

I'm very wary of the "comparison mode" of shopping around for Rs - it sets up the notion that the minute something better comes along (at any stage) he will simply abandon whatever he's in currently for the better one. Apart from teenagers, I don't know anyone who truly operates like that. Most people have at least a modicum of commitment when they sign up for more than a ONS.

 

And anyway, this whole "exploration" thing is a red herring. How on earth can get someone get a sense of "how good things could be" with someone under such artificial circumstances? I'm not suggesting (as some others do) that an A is all smoke and mirrors and "fantasy land" - on the contrary, I think the added stresses and strains that characterise most As (the secrecy, duplicity, guilt etc) prevent the partners from getting a sense of each other under normal relaxed conditions, integrated into a support system of friends and family, show only a partial view that precludes a fair comparison. It's like comparing living as a Jew in someone's Dutch attic during WWII with living as an American at the same time - honestly, with that kind of scenario, who'd swap?

[Sandy223]

thank you all so much for your input; I really appreciate it. i realize this early on, which is a good thing. i feel like such an idiot for falling for this ...

 

... from the beginning, I told him that i was open to "exploring" this with him, on the condition that it didn't take over my life. I do not want him leaving his stuff here, and I do not want to see him more than once a weel. I basically don't want this whole thing taking over my life. I had convinced myself that I was able to keep it seperarte ... but, when our heart gets involved, that is an entirely different story.

 

I made a promise to myself to end this by february/march at the latest, and if he wasn't ready to leave, to just end it there. i let him get comfortable on purpose .. when people are comfortable they become who they really are ...

 

... in this case, as we got into the comfort zone, he would talk about his life at home ... not in a complaining way, but as matter of fact ... I picked up on this right away. Now, that he feels he "has" me, he wants to make it clear that everything is on his terms ...

 

... I won't have any of it ... we were supposed to be exploring how we felt about each other, and then regardless of how things were going, i was going to send him on his way anyway ....

 

... but, it all got cut short ... because i don't want to hear about his life at home ... i am not enjoying this anymore ... what it signals to me is that regardless of how he may feel about me, he is not letting himself become open to really exploring a legitimate relationship with me ... if he were, he would not be mentioning his home life at all ....

 

... the question is weather he is diong this to be manipulative, or if he is subsconsiously using it as a reason not to get too close ... if he lets himself go completely, well ... then what? then he has to look at this whole thing and make a decision.

 

but, i am not going to let him get away with it ... I will not spend time with a MM only to talk about this W with me ...

 

... the next step now, is getting the strength to just let him go completely .... i will definitely not see him this week ...

 

... i will use the time productively to get over him ... one day at a time ... until this becomes a faint memory ...

 

... my girlfriend is coming over this afternoon ... she is a bright, happy and positive person ... i will keep surrounding myself with positive people, and keep counting my blessings ... i will not, and cannot get dragged into becoming someones entertainment center ...

 

.. he was attracted to me because i am positive, and upbeat and generally very happy ... while he remains bored and unappreciative of everything in his life ... and what has been the result?

 

My positive energy has been drained, and I have been sick all weekend ... it's such a waste!!!! Someone called me on Friday with a wonderful new job opportunity ... I have stable employment now, but this new thing is a really excellent opportunity ...

 

... i went shopping last weeeknd, and bought all of these beautiful new dresses ... my house is completely in order ... i have lots of friends and acquantainces and a supportive family ...

 

... i have lots of social invitations; I am in great shape and take excellent care of myself ...

 

.. these are the things I have to keep thinking about ... my life is too important to me to throw to the sharks ... too important to have someone come in and mess everything up ...

 

.. this is what I have to keep reinforcing ... this guy will take me down with him ... in one foul swoop ... and the longer this continues, the harder it will be to get away and to keep everything intact as it is now ...

 

... this is just the beginning of the downfall ... I am thankful that I caught it on time, but now I must prayer for the strength and courage to just walk away ... to just let it end ... without this big drama scene ...

 

it has already taken too much out of me ... and my life is too important ...

 

thank you all for your support, kind words, and encouragement. That is what this board is for ... none of us are perfect, and this is a bad situation that i have chosen to engage in ... and now, it is time to get out!!!

 

I am going on and on now, but I am trying to muster up the inner strength to terminate this from my life ... i cannot let it destroy me ... i need to take care of myself ... and i cannot let it destroy all of the other opporunities that life has in store for me ...

[2sure]

If a MM is comfortable talking about his wife and marriage with OW - especially a fairly new one - its is for one of two reasons:

 

1. Most MM will complain about the wife/marriage and point out that wife is crazy, frigid, mean etc...usually a lie or half truth - in an effort to "justify" the affair so he doesnt look like the creep he is being.

 

2. If MM is chatting happily about his wife and marriage...its because he truly feels you are his friend. A FWB. And thats it.

[BrotherD]

Mixed messages are part of the EMR nightmare

 

He talks about his wife with you...really,really shyte-y

 

Yes it may be true that he is "telling you" that his priorities are with his wife, yet the best way to do that is to shut his trap, dump you forever, and and "be" with his wife!

 

This is a tremendous mixed message and prime example of how crazy making this situation is...

 

Another frightening aspect of him talking about his wife and then continuing to see you...

 

Eithere he's a stoopid clod that has no idea how uncomfortable this conversation would be for you...or he's downright evil. Cause if he knows this is a touchy topic (and he does) it's meant to be provacative and demoralizing...so "you get it"

 

Problem is, he doesnt get it..... As mentioned before, if he did, he would break it off with you forever. Period. That's the way to honor the marriage, not by cheating and then giving lip service about his "vows" Gross...

 

To review, stoopid or evil...Either one doesnt work for you...

[Sandy223]

Thank you everyone again ... I appreciate the input so much, as this is a very difficult time for me ..

 

Brother D - could you expand a bit? I think he is being manipulative, actually ... in order to take control of the situation, so I don't get any big ideas of asking him to leave or anything like that.

 

Think you are right in this being demoralizing and degrading -- trying to put this affair in place so that he can better deal with it and handle it ...

 

... so, you hit the nail on the head in terms of my orginal question. No doubt, this is not going to last with me .... I am getting out of it, but want to leave in control of the situation ... in other words, to let him know, that his demoralizing behavior is what ended the affair ... I am not going to stick around and play that game ...

 

... so, what I was planning on doing was calling him on it ... by letting him know that the only reason i was doing this was because he wanted to see if it could go anywhere ... but, as an observation, "you" keep talking about your wife and life together with her ... which makes me think that this affair makes no sense ... if you are going to talk about her with me, why not be with her? only you know the answer to that, but what I know, is that you cannot be exploring your feelings with me, when you are talking about her with me - period. So, I think you need to go back and evaluate your marraige, and work on that relationship, because I am not into forcing anything, and I am certainly not competing with anyone ... Bottom Line: We have no business doing this....

 

... the reason I wanted to tell him this is for myself ... to that he does not get away with the manipulaion ... so, he wanted to manipulate me? and, what happened? It backfired on him and caused me to leave ... to leave him with his marraige and he own life to evaluate ... which is how it should have been to begin with .... he is the one who made me realize i had no reason being there!!

 

Also, Brother D is right when he says his comments are meant to be "provacative" ... which is why I didn't respond to them when he said them ... anytime someone makes me feel uncomfortable, in any situation, the first thing I do is keep my mouth shut.... I then, when I get a clear head .. and think about why/how I was so distraught, I respond in my own time when I am not in a situation where it is easy to become emotional ...

 

... which is why I am going to tell him this over the phone ... very simply, in a matter of fact, controlled manner ...

 

... yes, we all know who upset he has made me .. but HE doesn't need to know that! Nor does he need to know that I loved him ... and I really did ... the best thing for everyone in this situation is to leave him and his marraige alone ... obviously, he is in a marraige that isn't working ... so, he will spend the rest of his time there going from one affair to the next and spending his life settling ... and looking for some external gratification vs. looking at the issues head on and trying to resolve them ....

 

... i, hopefully, will have learned a valuable lesson from all of this .. will never do this again ... and keep myself out of situations where I don't belong.

[norajane]

.. so, what I was planning on doing was calling him on it ... by letting him know that the only reason i was doing this was because he wanted to see if it could go anywhere ... but, as an observation, "you" keep talking about your wife and life together with her ... which makes me think that this affair makes no sense ... if you are going to talk about her with me, why not be with her? only you know the answer to that, but what I know, is that you cannot be exploring your feelings with me, when you are talking about her with me - period. So, I think you need to go back and evaluate your marraige, and work on that relationship, because I am not into forcing anything, and I am certainly not competing with anyone ... Bottom Line: We have no business doing this....

 

... the reason I wanted to tell him this is for myself ... to that he does not get away with the manipulaion ... so, he wanted to manipulate me? and, what happened? It backfired on him and caused me to leave ... to leave him with his marraige and he own life to evaluate ... which is how it should have been to begin with .... he is the one who made me realize i had no reason being there!!

 

I think you are planning on saying far too much. Because...you really want to make him think about it SO THAT he then can start behaving the way you really want him to, deep down - you want him to show you he meant that whole exploration thing. You are wanting him to try to convince you that you're wrong and he really does want to explore your connection...

 

If you truly want to end things and let him know he can't get away with the manipulation, you just need to say, "You know, the whole point of this was to get to know each other, and I just don't like what I now know about you. Buh-bye."

[wildsoul]

I think he is being manipulative, actually ... in order to take control of the situation, so I don't get any big ideas of asking him to leave or anything like that.

That's what I'm thinking, too. He is "normalizing" the fact that he is still married, so you begin accepting it. That will also come in handy later when/if he needs to tell you, "But you know how much I still love her. I can't leave her."

 

I'm curious about the phrases, "explore" and "he thinks it's real, to see if it could go anywhere." Vague words that can be interpretted a zillion ways! Is that what you two agreed to, or is it just the words you're using for us in your post.

 

Take the word "anywhere" for example. Well, yeah, if you two date it's going to go somewhere, but where is it that you're talking about? Did he say, "If we hit it off, I'll end my marriage," or anything like that?

 

I went for the "let's meet and see if there's a connection," line. My MM told me before we met in person that he was married (but getting ready to separate.) We already had strong connection via email and phone, but then I turned him down to meet in person. My wise words (that I didn't follow) were, "Yes, but what if there IS a connection? Then it will be a good deal harder. I don't want to date a MM." And then he convinced me to meet anyways, sparks flew, and then I continued to see him.

[norajane]

If he really wanted to leave his marriage, it wouldn't matter if he found a connection with you or if you hit it off or not. If he really wanted to leave his wife, he'd already be in the process of doing so, or would have already done it because he no longer wanted to be married.

 

Are you supposed to prove to him that he's better off leaving her because of your "connection"? Is that how this is supposed to work? You're supposed to give him a good enough reason to leave otherwise he won't? If that's the case, then how unhappy could he possibly be in his marriage if the ONLY reason he'd leave his wife is because you made a good enough case to pick you! pick you!?

 

The way this is set up, it's a contest as to which woman makes him feel better (again, not that I believe he ever intends to divorce). It's all about him, do you see? Only he gets to have both because he has no intention of going anywhere, and you're allowing him to see you.

[Married One]

I took a quick glance at your more recent messages/postings here. I just wanted add, from many of yourse, it gives me the impression you have this lingering feeling of "unfinished business", even though, you oscillate between telling him, and then, not going to tell him etc.. Granted you must have to go through this healing process, which may (or may not) get you to go, but some days, cannot go, one day happy, one day not as happy, and perhaps, you may sometimes even feel you need this "closure", a word which you had yourself used in one of your earlier posts. This apparently gives me the impression that you are continuing to think about him/the situation. Yes, healing may involve anger, denial, analysis etc., but remember to try and MOVE ON as quickly as you can.

 

Well, my forever advice is DO NOT CONTACT him, or her (BS), ever again! Like it or not, the closure you need doesn't have to include THAT. The closure you need is to find your own happiness, separate from all this "rubbish", ie. things of the PAST = rubbish!

 

Sigh, of course though, it's easier for me to say than for the person having to practise it I know (from my own "problems" discussed in my own threads/posts under "What have I done?"), but, just remember, it really CAN be easy!

 

Thank you everyone again ... I appreciate the input so much, as this is a very difficult time for me ..

 

Brother D - could you expand a bit? I think he is being manipulative, actually ... in order to take control of the situation, so I don't get any big ideas of asking him to leave or anything like that.

 

Think you are right in this being demoralizing and degrading -- trying to put this affair in place so that he can better deal with it and handle it ...

 

... so, you hit the nail on the head in terms of my orginal question. No doubt, this is not going to last with me .... I am getting out of it, but want to leave in control of the situation ... in other words, to let him know, that his demoralizing behavior is what ended the affair ... I am not going to stick around and play that game ...

 

... so, what I was planning on doing was calling him on it ... by letting him know that the only reason i was doing this was because he wanted to see if it could go anywhere ... but, as an observation, "you" keep talking about your wife and life together with her ... which makes me think that this affair makes no sense ... if you are going to talk about her with me, why not be with her? only you know the answer to that, but what I know, is that you cannot be exploring your feelings with me, when you are talking about her with me - period. So, I think you need to go back and evaluate your marraige, and work on that relationship, because I am not into forcing anything, and I am certainly not competing with anyone ... Bottom Line: We have no business doing this....

 

... the reason I wanted to tell him this is for myself ... to that he does not get away with the manipulaion ... so, he wanted to manipulate me? and, what happened? It backfired on him and caused me to leave ... to leave him with his marraige and he own life to evaluate ... which is how it should have been to begin with .... he is the one who made me realize i had no reason being there!!

 

Also, Brother D is right when he says his comments are meant to be "provacative" ... which is why I didn't respond to them when he said them ... anytime someone makes me feel uncomfortable, in any situation, the first thing I do is keep my mouth shut.... I then, when I get a clear head .. and think about why/how I was so distraught, I respond in my own time when I am not in a situation where it is easy to become emotional ...

 

... which is why I am going to tell him this over the phone ... very simply, in a matter of fact, controlled manner ...

 

... yes, we all know who upset he has made me .. but HE doesn't need to know that! Nor does he need to know that I loved him ... and I really did ... the best thing for everyone in this situation is to leave him and his marraige alone ... obviously, he is in a marraige that isn't working ... so, he will spend the rest of his time there going from one affair to the next and spending his life settling ... and looking for some external gratification vs. looking at the issues head on and trying to resolve them ....

 

... i, hopefully, will have learned a valuable lesson from all of this .. will never do this again ... and keep myself out of situations where I don't belong.

[BrotherD]

Please take my advice on this one.

 

You need to disappear from this scenario...

 

I say that because I was in a similar situation and "hanging in there." to "explore possibilities.." It's is a recipe for disaster...Here's why...

 

When interacting with your MM, you will be privy to the following

 

Vacations youre not going on

Events your not going to

Him sleeping with her, not you

Hearing him bitch about his funked up marriage.

Him dropping distressing info about his "love" for his wife so "you get it"

 

All these things will cut to the bone.

 

If you just fall off the face of the earth, you strengthen your posistion immeasurably. And hes treating you badly SO YOU'RE NOT MISSING ANYTHING...Here's how..

 

There is a saying regarding any interaction with people that goes "who ever cares the least, is in control..."

 

I would wager to say that he is in control because he is not into you enough to make any changes... If you stay in this "dance" with him, the dynamic will probably remain the same, resulting in an awful lot of trouble for you...

 

That's why dissappearing is the only way to go. It's the only way to hit the reset button and eqaulize the situation.

 

By just plain dissappearing, you will let him know (and he already knows )

that you are not available to particpate in the hokey pokey thing you've been doing...

 

He will get it real fast that he IS NOT IN CONTROL ANYMORE. You've ended it on your terms and are out of the game....Nice.

 

Two more benefits of friggin NO CONTACT

 

1.) NC = No more shyte. You'll miss all the BS about his life/marriage that you dont want to hear anyway. That in itself is great news!

 

2.) If he is "into you" he will find you. When a guys into you, he'll move mountains to get close to you.. Your non-negotiable terms are as follows...

MM will be single and ready to date and "explore" the possibilitites of a relationship with you. If he doesnt find you, you have your answer.

 

PS If you dont want to just go AWOL, a few very simple sentences will work perfectly..Like this...

"I really like you, but your married. If youre free later on down the road, call me. Unitl then, I'm really really busy..."

 

Then dump the SOB and get on with your life.

 

I know it's hard. Dont waste any more time

[Sandy223]

Thank you Brother D! Thanks everyone else too ... it's all really good advice, and I am happy that I have support here ...

 

... I did do the disappearing act on him, Brother D, about a year and a half ago ... didn't respond to any of his emails, nothing! And, then this started up this past September ... when I went AWOL I was crushed because I wanted to get to know him, but knew I could not because he was married ...

 

.. .and, in reponse to everyone else ... let's "explore" was not his terminology, it is just mine in these posts .. he actually did convince me that the whole purpose of this was to see if what we had was real, because he had more than a feeling that it was ... and, if he was ... he did say that he would leave ... his youngest son is leaving for college next fall .. .then the house will be empty of children ....

 

.. .anyway ... i did end up talking to him, like I said I would ... and he got nervous ... don't think he wants to do anything to push me away now ... he knows that when I disappear it's for 1.5 years at a time ...

 

... we had our date this Wednesday, and I had a date with another man (unmarried) on Thursday ... we hit it off really well, and are going out again this Saturday. Perfect timing! My date with the other divorced guy was on Monday night, and there really was no chemistry ... so, I have a second date with the new guy this Saturday! Then, we will take it from there ....

 

... the MM is going away with his family for x-mas and won't be back until after the New Year .... so, I purposefully planned a little spa vacation for myself ... I am leaving on New Years Day, and coming back the following Sunday ... refreshed, relaxed and a new person (at least for a little bit), ready to start the new year ... .

 

 

Brother D, I agree with you in that the person who cares less has more power ... this is why I am going the extra mile to meet other people and make sure I am fully engaged in other areas of my life .... yes, this is an emotional rollercoaster for me ... yes, I do love him .. and no, I did not tell him I loved him ...

 

... I do think I put him on his toes this week though ... basically told him in a very nice way, that if he is going to talk about life with the W in front of me, then he should go home to her ... that's it .. was very matter of fact about it ... think he knows not to do it anymore ...

 

...i know, i know I should dump him, but i am really not perfect, and this is hard for me ... but, I am opening myself up to other possibiliies ...

 

.. the mentality I have now is "if not him, someone else" and then I just keep moving forward ... I never want to get into the mentaility of "waiting" ... I am just making sure that I live my life outside of this relationship to the complete fullest .. by planning trips, getting involved in charities and other organizations. ... reaching out to old friends, meeting new ones ... and staying involved in teh community ...

 

... I am sooo determined not to get trapped in this ... this is so hard; don't know what I would do without your help.

[jj33]

Its good that you are thinking about stepping back. His logic is totally flawed.

 

An A is not a normal relationship. You cant know exactly what it will be like to build a life with someone based on an A. You can have some idea but its not the same thing because the married person only has one foot in it. The rest of him is committed to his wife and family.

 

Its like saying I want to go to Cambodia for a week on vacation and then decide if I want to live there. Being there as a tourist is a lot different than living there - for you as well as for him.

 

And worse - it makes you an option. What are you supposed to be doing? Auditioning? He has been pursuing you for 5 years (not nice while he is married). You both know you have a strong bond together. That is not the issue.

 

The issue is does he want to end his marriage. And your audition however prolonged is not going to give him the answer.

 

I hate to say it but he sounds like he is trying to rope you into an A and that this is not the first time he has done this. Someone who is unhappy and wants to leave a marriage doesnt approach it from this angle. Its way too premeditated and hes taken far too much time with it. This can only end in tears. Your tears.

[Mino]

and you have EVERYTHING to lose, your heart, your soul..your life

[norajane]

ready to start the new year ...

Start it without MM. Just cut him off, no contact anymore.

 

What are you holding onto here? He's with his family for the holidays, and that's how it's going to be for as long as you are willing to be his OW - you booking spas so you have something to do while he's with his family on the holidays.

 

You don't need him!

[Sandy223]

Thanks again ... I don't know what to do!!! I am soooo upset. It's Christmas .... he's going away with the family ... that is what married people do .... clearly, if he wanted to leave .... he would ... you are right, we do have the connection ... but BFD!

 

We do have a rule now about him not talking about his W with me, even as part of what they all did over the w/e .... etc... and you are right ... this will end in my tears, which is why I am soooo determined to keep moving forward in other areas .... let him weed himself out ...

 

... i am a bright girl, I do not want to wait, and I am really ready now .... I want what I want more than I want him ....e.g, at least I know that my life is more important to me than he is to me ...

 

... and I am pray to God every night for someone good to come along ... it's not like I haven't been dating ...

 

... since last November ... I have met literally 35 new men!! Most of them only ended up being first dates ... (no chemistry; whatever) ... then I had a couple of 4 date wonders earlier this summer and fall ..... the entire time I was away from the MM (and even now), I have not stopped dating ...

 

I know we are all supposed to be strong and evolved enough to end an A before we can move forward, but I am not as strong as I would like to be ... so ... I keep praying that one of these dates I stumble upon actually has real potential ... eg, a nice guy with chemistry ...

 

... anyway, I KNOW in my heart, tht if I met someone else, the MM would really be history, and there would be no way back!!!

 

...also, just want to add that I am not "auditioning" for wife ... not at all ... i have been myself through out all of this .. thinking ... if it was meant to be, it will be ... and have just kept moving forward at the same time ....

 

... but perhaps my logic is flawed, because I am human after all ... and it is the holiday ... and he is going away with the family, and we are intimate .. of course I am hurt .... this is a nightmare.