Long:Thinking about opening up my marriage...

[waitingfordaddylongl]

This post is about my relationship with my husband and my reasons for considering opening up our relationship. I don't know if this is the right board, but if not, then please point me in the right direction.

 

I am in a committed relationship with a man I love, but from the very beginning he has been open to the idea of having an open marriage. I never thought that I would want this type of relationship when he first suggested it while we were still engaged.

When we first met we were wild and free with each other, and we had sex often. He satisfied me physically, and emotionally, but something changed while we were engaged and we started having sex less often, he also gained weight. And, we'd completely stopped having sex by the time we got married.

 

It was so bad that I actually had to wait a full month after we were married to consumate it, and even then I was the one who asked for it. He didn't want to talk about it then, and he still doesn't want to talk about it now.

 

He blames his low sex drive on his weight gain. He says that he doesn't feel sexy because he is fat now. Yet, he still eats fatty foods, doesn't exercise and I feel like he stopped caring about what he looks like.

However, I know that he still has a sex drive because I have looked at his computer and seen how often he goes on porn websites to look at naked pictures of other women in provocative poses, and he also watches naked women dancing or stripping in those amateurish looking videos.

 

 

Anyways, we've been married for 2 years and probably had sex less than 20 times which is not a lot for a married couple and this has caused problems for me.

When I first tried to talk to my husband about his sexual disfunction, he brought up the idea of an open marriage again. He said that he didn't want to sleep with other people, but would understand if I did.

 

wtf?

 

Rules: he asked me to discuss it with him first, he wanted to meet and approve of the person before any sexual acts take place, he told me that other women didn't count (which means that I can be with women); and that was a year and a half ago.

 

Fast forward to the present...we still have the same problems in the bedroom, and now I'm attracted to someone else. The other person is a female PhD student. We met during a lecture last spring and hit it off right away. Nothing overtly romantic has ever happened between us to date, not even a kiss. I don't even know if she is bi for sure, but I want her.

 

I was drawn to her intellegence, warmth, beauty. We both felt this instant connection right away. We even told each other that we had "girl" crushes on each other, but I kept teling mysef that it was nothing.

Then one day I finally realised that I was developing feelings for her and I gave her the cold shoulder. I went no contact for 5 months without giving an explanation. I didn't return her calls, rarely replied to her emails, and didn't hang out with her or see her for 5 months.

She kept trying to initiate contact with me. She would send me emails trying to find out what was going on. Emails telling me that she was thinking about me a lot, then she stopped emailing me for whole month, but last week she emailed me asking to meet with me for coffee.

I met with her stupidly hoping the feelings were gone. As soon as I saw her I realized that they were still there. I didn't tell her anything that night, but I haven't been able to get her out of my head since we met last week. It's worse than before. I had to know if she was just being a good friend or trying to send me a signal.

 

Possible Clues: She always used to compliment me on my looks. She would do things like tell me how phogenic I am. She would always dress provocatively when we were hanging out, even if it was just the 2 of us. She doesn't normally wear low cut blouses on a daily basis.

 

One time she jokingly asked my husband if she could take me home.

She grabbed my hand once when we were walking through a crowded club. (maybe this is something that other girls do, but I've never held hands with any of my female friends). Shecaressed my leg once to demonstrate a point while telling a story about sexual repression in the middle east.

 

She knows that I am married so she would be a consenting partner if anything were to happen, and I don't even know if she is interested, at least not yet.

After we met last week I sent her an email telling her why I had avoided her for five months. I told her that I was attracted to her and that my feelings for her haven't gone away. I suggested that we cut off all contact and quit trying to be friends because trying to stay in contact would be too hard for me.

 

In her repy, (that I wasn't expecting) she thanked me for my email said she was touched (whatever that means) and asked me if she could have my permission to respond in a longer email. She called me courageous for putting myself out there like that, and wrote that she was glad that I told her. Her calling me courageous doesn't necessarily make me think that she feels the same way, but why then does she want to send me a long response?

We talked on the phone for 5 minutes today. She called me to tell me that she would send me her long response tomorrow, and I'm a nervous wreck right now. I don't even know what I want her to say. If she says that she is not interested, I will be crushed but honestly this is what I am expecting. And, if she says that she is attracted to me to, or was attracted to me in the past, what then?

 

Can I really go to my husband and say hey...remember that open marriage thing we discussed, well, I want to start a sexual relationship with someone I think I am falling for? I know that this attraction might not have happened if thinds were going well with my husband, but it is what it is.

 

Now what?

[Owl]

No, this won't work.

 

An "open marriage" means its open sexually.

 

It doesn't mean that its open EMOTIONALLY.

 

And that's what you're asking for.

 

If you decide to ask your husband about this...asking him if he's ok with you FALLING IN LOVE with another person...dont make it sound like all you're asking his permission for is to sleep with her.

 

There is a HUGE distinction here...and he needs to clearly understand what it is you're asking for.

[Agent_99]

I agree with Owl, my ex hubby and I opened our marriage so that I could date women. Even when I found a woman who was okay with me being in another relationship, the emotional pain was to much for all three of us. If it had just been sex(which I am beginning to think I am incapable of emotionless sex) then it may have been different, but it sounds to me like you are/have been falling in love with this woman.

 

There is a community of people who believe it is possible, but the most successful relationships are between people who are extremly independent and SINGLE. Basically they have a group of lovers without a standing commitment to any one person over another. That is of course my subjective opinion from being part of that community for 7 years and talking to many many people about it.

 

~99

[waitingfordaddylongl]

I understand what you're saying and I do realise that he may have some reservations, but I'm not sure what else I can do here. I don't want to go behind his back, assuming this is even an option, but I also don't want to have to walk away from her again if she still wants to pursue an emotional relationship with me. I feel conflicted about this. When my husband stopped having sex with me he kind of pushed me away. We are not as close as we used to be, but I still love him. I don't want to leave him, and I don't want to have to sacrifice what could be a passionate relationship. I really don't know what to do here.

[Owl]

So are you willing to CHEAT on your husband if he doesn't agree to it?

 

Is that what I'm getting here?

 

If you feel that poorly about him vs her...then don't wait. File for divorce.

 

You're offering an ultimatum when you look at it this way. And that is totally and completely unfair to him as well.

 

You're falling in love with her...that's fine.

 

Your choice is her...OR...him.

 

You're ASKING for both...but you already know that he's not going to accept you being in love with someone else.

 

How would you feel if he told you he was in love with another woman, and wanted to bring her into your marriage?

 

Not really fair, is it?

 

You need to either safegaurd your marriage...or end it.

 

Its not fair for you to attempt to have both.

 

See what I'm saying here?

[Geishawhelk]

Well there you have it.

This is the classic case of wanting your cake and eating it.

 

I hate to break this to you, but it can't be done.

 

At one point, something's going to get broken, and you have to decide now what's more important to you in the long run. This marriage, and saving it, or cutting, running and heading into a different relationship.

I know, how would you know, you haven't tried it?

Well, trust me - and every other person who's been a character in the Affair scenario (in whatever role) - Life is not as sweet or easy as being able to 'try before you buy'.

 

I'm afraid you have some decisions to make.

And It will be neither easy or painless.

[waitingfordaddylongl]

Yes, I do see what you are saying...but, what do I do now? Knowing what the right thing to do is and actually doing it are 2 different things. If he told me no, then I wouldn't pursue this relationship. I probably shouldn't even be thinking about this now, except it's been all that I've been thinking of for the past few days. I am an emotional wreck. I can't eat, I can't sleep.

And, like I said...I don't even know if she's interested. Should I try to cut this off before she has a chance to tell me how she feels? Would that be fair? For all I know she could let me know that it's never going to happen, in which case this would all just be wild speculations anyway.

[Owl]

You won't like the "what do I do now" either...

 

Now...you end your relationship with her completely.

 

The cat is out of the bag. You've 'made an offer'. She knows how you feel about her.

 

As long as the two of you remain in contact...you're going to continue to feed these feelings between you.

 

Your only option is to end the whole thing...and to start considering the word "boundaries" in relationship to your marriage.

 

You have poor "boundaries"...ones that allowed you to progress this communication to a point where things became emotionally intimate with her. You need to learn what appropriate boundaries are for someone who is married...so that you don't ALLOW yourself to get to this point again.

 

See...I told you that you wouldn't like the "what next".

[waitingfordaddylongl]

I know I sounded like insensitive in last post, but you don't know what it's like to have a spouse who is not interested in sex with you, or even willing to talk to a doctor about it. I had to ask my husband to have sex with me because he never initiated sex, and even rebuffed my advances for the first 30 days of our marriage. I am always the one to initiate sex, if it happens. I've gotten to the point where I am tired of being rejected by him. Sometimes I think he wants a roommate. I mean we get along like friends with occasional benefits, and he has told me numerous times that he would be fine with an open relationship.

Do I feel bad about this? Yes, because I know that this relationship could lead me further away from him, but I can't force him to give me what I want. I can't force him to be passionate about me, and I've tried all the tricks. Should I give up now and resign myself to 6 times a year if I'm lucky?

[waitingfordaddylongl]

Just to clarify, I told her that we should cut off all contact with each other because I need to get over this. I asked her not to reply to my email, but then she did reply and asked if she could send me a long response, and she asked me if it was okay when she called me again today.

I've tried to push her away.

She might just want to remain friends, but I don't think that would work for me either.

I wanted to get over this, I still do.

As much as I care about her, I know that all 3 of us could be hurt.

I guess my 2nd mistake was telling her how I felt.

[Holding-On]

No, this won't work.

 

An "open marriage" means its open sexually.

 

It doesn't mean that its open EMOTIONALLY.

 

And that's what you're asking for.

 

If you decide to ask your husband about this...asking him if he's ok with you FALLING IN LOVE with another person...dont make it sound like all you're asking his permission for is to sleep with her.

 

There is a HUGE distinction here...and he needs to clearly understand what it is you're asking for.

 

 

Sorry. I have to respectfully disagree.

An open marriage depends on your (you and your husband's) written rules.

My (15+yr) open marriage is indeed open emotionally.

I find the idea of taking people to bed as though they were slabs of meat very offensive. Sorta like, "sure honey you can have a sexual fling just so long as you completely dehumanize/debase the person you are having sex with so that they don't mean anything to you."

I WANT my husband to be loved and to love the people he is f***ing.

 

This works for us because, except for my exceptional moral blunder that led me to this site, we have been very selective and chosen people who already have a primary and permanent partner (who they are not leaving).

So we have only been cake to them. Good friends and fun lovers but not a permanent partner that they are craving.

 

Have been very clear that we (my husband and I) are each other's primary partners, communicate very clearly and only date other people when things are going well in our relationship. Chose persons that want us to stay together (people with long term open marriages of their own) and

go very very slowly.

[InLimbo2]

I concur - there are open marriages that work - including the emotional part - if all parties are informed willing participants.

 

I have several people I know in that situation - one close friend is and has been involved in a 'alternative' situation like this for several years - and they are all very happy. Not all are whacked kinda situations like the ranches with the women in prairie dresses and the girls married off at puberty. All three are productive functioning professionals.

 

This site is geared to 1+2=2 relationships - nothing wrong with that - but sounds like you are more curious and wondering and leaning towards an alternative. I don't know all the terminology - but start with looking up 'group marriage' and 'polyfamilies'

 

Not my cup of tea, but you should be educated and informed and have relevant resources. Good luck whatever you end up doing

 

I asked my friend - she gave me this:

 

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/polyfamilies/

"PolyFamilies" is the title for the group of people who populate this list, NOT a topic indicator. We have a common ground. Some of us are in, have been in, or wish to be in a polyamorous family of three or more adults (with or without children), while others are simply interested in the idea. But ultimately, this is a community of people and the topics vary widely. There is a lot of experience and information here for those who are seeking advice about poly families. There are also great recipes and interesting conversational sidetrips. The point is to enjoy one another, to grow as people, and to benefit from the resources that a community of like-minded (or sometimes not so likeminded) individuals can provide. This group is for 18+. Welcome!

 

 

 

Sorry. I have to respectfully disagree.

An open marriage depends on your (you and your husband's) written rules.

My (15+yr) open marriage is indeed open emotionally.

I find the idea of taking people to bed as though they were slabs of meat very offensive. Sorta like, "sure honey you can have a sexual fling just so long as you completely dehumanize/debase the person you are having sex with so that they don't mean anything to you."

I WANT my husband to be loved and to love the people he is f***ing.

 

This works for us because, except for my exceptional moral blunder that led me to this site, we have been very selective and chosen people who already have a primary and permanent partner (who they are not leaving).

So we have only been cake to them. Good friends and fun lovers but not a permanent partner that they are craving.

 

Have been very clear that we (my husband and I) are each other's primary partners, communicate very clearly and only date other people when things are going well in our relationship. Chose persons that want us to stay together (people with long term open marriages of their own) and

go very very slowly.

[frannie]

If you love your husband and want to stay married to him, with or without the 'open' part, with or without this woman you're interested in, you have to talk to him. I believe you have to be open and honest about your feelings, both for him and for her. He needs to know what's going on here, what his looking at porn but rejecting you is doing, and the fact that you're drifting apart.

 

I think that even if you get the 'go ahead' from him to pursue something physical and emotional with this woman, that still stands. Otherwise it's all going to get very messy indeed. You're going to find yourself loving her and closer to her than to him, because of his inability or unwillingness to be intimate with you. And that's something you need to address before things go further, imho.

[Owl]

Thank you for the correction, HO. That was information I didn't know.

 

I'm most curious how you would feel if your H came to you with the OP's story? (sounds as though she's already "in love")

 

How do you keep safeguards in place to ensure that your partner DOES remain your priority?

[waitingfordaddylongl]

OWL,

 

I am not in love with her, at least not yet. The very reason I pulled away from the relationship is because I was afraid that I would/was falling for her.

 

I still haven't received an email from her, so, maybe inaction speaks louder than words.

I don't know what I would say if my husband was in love with someone else, but I don't think I would be angry. I know that sounds weird, but if he came to me first before acting on his feelings, then I would try to understand where he was coming from and I would ask him if he wanted a divorce. I wouldn't ask him out of anger though. If he thought that he was in love with the other person, and could get it up for her with no problems, then I would want him to be happy. I know a triangle can't be sustained long-term. However, if he told me that he wanted to make it work, and he also wanted to be intimate with me, then I'd at least give it a shot.

On the other hand, I don't know how I would respond if I was still single and a married female told me she had feelings for me. I've never been involved with another woman before. If I was single and a same sex friend (of 6 months) blew me off for 5 months, then I don't think I would still be trying to find a way to communicate with her or be around her if I didn't have feelings for her.

[waitingfordaddylongl]

Excerpts from her email to me:

There are a lot of ideas that crossed my mind after reading your email. It triggered a whole lot of thoughts, i.e. about the distinctions of the mental/ physical, of what distinguishes friendship from partnership/sexual relation, being reasonable vs. impulsive and to indulge in feelings.

She has a tendency to overthink things.

 

 

If you want to know what my spontaneous feelings were, I felt flattered by your deep affection.

 

 

Maybe we could meet and talk about all this

 

I still feel close to you. Obviously, in friendship there must be something that causes mutual attraction.

 

I still like you and I appreciated the moments we had together a lot and would regret wholeheartedly if there weren't any more to come.

 

She is obviously not interested, but I still have feelings for her.

So, I have been left with my feelings and no source of temptation.

I'm not even really upset about it because I respect her even more now. Would anyone else like to weigh in?

[2sure]

Because you are getting no sex, no physical affection, no intimacy at home....your husband assumes that everything is fine if you get your physical needs taken care of elsewhere.

 

But the intimacy we share with our partners is a part of the love. Without it, something is missing.

 

You say yourself you miss the physical contact...but what is motivating you to finally act...is emotional. It sounds to me like you miss and lack physical affection and emotional intimacy. These are each big parts of marriage. To miss both....??

[waitingfordaddylongl]

I know that something is missing.

He is completely, if not overly affectionate in public, but when we get home he's always on the computer. Most of the time he's working, and other times he is looking at pictures of naked women.

We kiss, and sometimes he even caresses my naked flesh, but I just find that annoying now. I'm sexually frustrated. Getting me excited and not doing anything about it doesn't help matters, and when we have sex it isn't great anymore.

He likes to be on top (like a lot of men), but he's gotten so heavy that he crushes me and sometimes I feel like I can't breathe with him on top of me. He doesn't like to hold himself up with his arms when he is on top, and instead lies chest to chest with me. I used to enjoy making love to him and now I dread having him on top because end up gasping for breathe because I don't want to hurt his feelings by telling him that I can't ****ing breathe beneath him. Did I mention that he has gained at least 60 pounds since we've been together? He is 6 feet tall and pushing 300 pounds. He was like 220-230 when we met.

[waitingfordaddylongl]

My crush asked me if I want to meet next week to discuss things. Is there anything left to discuss?

[Geishawhelk]

No, not in my opinion, not concerning this.... But I really do think you need to start communicating with your husband, and being a lot more frank and open with him. Things need to be voiced and aired. Too much pussyfooting and 'fear of hurting feelings', is gonna hurt a lot more down the line, if they aren't.....

 

Otherwise, I fear it will "all end in tears."

[waitingfordaddylongl]

I know I need to talk to him..but our relationship is so closed off now. It started off with not talking about sex and now there are lots of little things that we don't say to each other. He gets really upset anytime I bring uncomfortable things up, and when he gets upset he shuts me out. So, the options are: leave it be, or possibly get the cold shoulder from someone who really doesn't want to talk.

The last time we tried to talk about something I was blamed for scaring the penis. Who am I, Charlotte York? He didn't actually say I was scaring it, but he did tell me that I was taking his sexual advances too lightly. What advances? foreplay has gone out the window, and it's been at least 6 weeks.

[Geishawhelk]

Then I think you have some fundamental issues to face, that having an affair - "permitted" or otherwise - will simply mask.

Evading the issue here, is going to solve nothing.

Maybe you need to confront him in such a way as to ellicit some form of constructive response. Even if it's "I think we should separate"......

[waitingfordaddylongl]

On another note, my crush wants to meet for dinner, away from school.

She seemed to want to go somewhere quiet away from prying ears. I'm thinking that she doesn't want anyone from school to overhear our conversation.

So, I want to poll readers:

Would you be interested in meeting someone who said they had feelings for you if you weren't interested at all? I didn't ask her to meet and discuss this. If you read the excerpt from the email; then you know that she wants to talk about it.

 

Why would she want to talk about it?

Is this a purely intellectual pursuit?

Do you think she really is interested, but feeling conflicted about it?

[Owl]

On another note, my crush wants to meet for dinner, away from school.

She seemed to want to go somewhere quiet away from prying ears. I'm thinking that she doesn't want anyone from school to overhear our conversation.

So, I want to poll readers:

Would you be interested in meeting someone who said they had feelings for you if you weren't interested at all? I didn't ask her to meet and discuss this. If you read the excerpt from the email; then you know that she wants to talk about it.

 

Why would she want to talk about it?

Is this a purely intellectual pursuit?

Do you think she really is interested, but feeling conflicted about it?

 

I wouldn't meet with her at all, given the risk I'd be taking with my marriage.

 

ANY emotional communication like this is what FEEDS into your emotional affair with her.

 

Don't meet up with her. End the friendship.

 

Or...tell your husband what you're about the whole thing...and get HIS views on whether or not you should meet with her.

[Geishawhelk]

No, I think she would rather speak with you face to face than leave it to writing mails. Communication ius largely body languge, and i think she tried to be clear in her mail, but wants to compound her comments more gently F2F....

Also I think it's a good idea to discuss this away from prying ears. It safeguards your privacy and dignity, and hers too. In some circles, it's not the kind of thing you want others to overhear.....

 

That's just my take....