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I wonder about BS


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As I get through my days of NC (24 and counting!) and talk to counselors, doctors, ministers, friends, and family, I feel like I am finally gaining some clarity. I really believe that in many cases, the W has as little self-esteem as the OW. I know that I have no confidence right now-it was shredded by the fact that he made me promises and packed up one day while I was gone out of the blue. And yet strangely enough, I feel like his W is probably struggling with her own esteem issues. She is educated, very intelligent, attractive, and outgoing. She could easily make a life for herself without this man. Instead, she allowed him to come back knowing that he cheated on her for over 2 years (with someone she knew). Knowing that he lived with this woman for 4 months. Knowing that he took this woman on a beautiful beach vacation while she was at home with questions and tears. And she may or may not know that he cheated on her upwards of 10 times throughout their 20 year marriage. Sometimes I feel like both of us feel like we are nothing without this man and it is amazing that someone could make 2 reasonable people feel that way and accept what they have accepted from him. I feel bad not only for what I have done but I feel bad for her. I have gotten off the roller coaster and though it is hard, someone had to stop the ride. He acts like it was him, but if I called him right now, he would talk to me. He would act like he was put out, but his ego would be smiling. I know that he won't change. He's doing what he's done every time in the past-waiting for her to give an inch so he can take a mile. I hope she gets herself off the roller coaster too. I really believe she deserves better.

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She could easily make a life for herself without this man.

 

But she is his wife, he is her husband. She has every right to decide to forgive him and try to save their marriage. Like it or not, this IS something that married couples do.

 

She may not want to start her life over again, 20 years of marriage, 20+ years of being with him...Again, that's her choice. Not everybody is quick about wanting to change their life. Sadly maybe she is settling for her kids sake, or she doesn't want to be alone . Right or wrong, it's still her choice and obviously he wants to stay married to her because he's still there.

 

Best to not worry or concern let alone think about her and their marriage anymore. Focus on healing and letting go..

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torranceshipman

You're right...poor woman. Although I bet he has hidden a LOT from her and she probably doesnt know anywhere near the complete truth...I am sure he has backtracked and lied through his teeth to protect his own ass and what she knows is probably the tip of the iceberg. You know as well as anyone how much of a liar he can be! But dont think about them anyway, look after yourself right now.

 

Good on you for getting out. And the thing is, the guy is pretty worthless. What a loser for lying like this - only 18yr old fratboys think it's cool to act like a 'player' and most people would just see him for what he is-an immature loser who is a bit pathetic/bit of a laughing stock/can't get a girl the normal way (i.e. dating, being honest, fixing a flawed marriage).

 

Maybe you've completely put him on a pedestal in order to be able to put up with all the crap - take him off the pedestal and realise he's a normal guy, then you might startng thinking...'ewwww' :D:D Think about it....have you ever stuck by MMs side through so much crap, in a bid to show him how strong your feelings are and how loyal you are? That's 'put on a pedestal' behaviour...the moment you start treating your partner exactly in the way they deserve, then you'll have an easier life. Plus if you can topple him off that pedestal, you'll get over him a WHOLE lot quicker too!

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They have no kids so I know that's not the reason. It's weird to think this, but sometimes it's like the only one who could really understand my feelings of hurt and betrayal by the MM is his W. I don't mean that in a disrespectful way. I do not take for granted the fact that they have been married for so long. I just know that she understands the back and forth and wondering and worrying and not trusting like I did. That's why I feel bad. She told him she would take him back to work on the marriage because he told her he slept with me once or twice in December. After he moved back in, he waited a few days and then told her the 2 years...living together...vacation part of things. I can't imagine what a spot that put her in. Now he says that he won't ever leave her again and that the only way there will be a divorce is if she initiates it. He passes the buck-never wants to look like the bad guy or take any blame. I used to think that I "lost" but part of me might be starting to see that I kind of "won" by not having to deal with his games and immaturity (at 46!). Torrance, you are absolutely right about me needing to knock him off his pedestal. I held him in such high regard and I see now that he didn't deserve it. i honestly thought for a period that he could do no wrong!:p

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Agree with Torrance to the t.

 

As a former BS, I can tell you that my xWH's OW thought she knew more about me yet so little. Much in the same way you are describing your MM's W.

 

She told him she would take him back to work on the marriage because he told her he slept with me once or twice in December

That's right. No matter how many times you've slept with her H, she still loves him for better or worse. Shows her level of commitment to the M. No different than when Hilary Clinton stuck by her cheating presidential of a H. I also forgave xWH. But, finally kicked him out for good eight months later. OW couldn't have been happier and celebratory. Never mind he kept promising her he'd D me, but never did. Even when I kicked him out, he never moved in with her. She got him by "default". You could say she "won" on technicality. :laugh: Last I heard, he's not happy. He's been asking about me from our former neighbors. Oh well....:rolleyes:

I can't imagine what a spot that put her in. Now he says that he won't ever leave her again and that the only way there will be a divorce is if she initiates it.

Perhaps the A made him realize what wonderful, loving W he has and what an ass he's been for taking her for granted. Perhaps a sign of his renewed faith and commitment to the M and W.

He passes the buck-never wants to look like the bad guy or take any blame.

How do you know? He probably already knows he's been an azhole. His W knows he's been an azhole.

I used to think that I "lost" but part of me might be starting to see that I kind of "won" by not having to deal with his games and immaturity (at 46!).

That's probably why so many OPs hang around long enough to see if they can "win" over the MP until they realize they're fighting a losing battle? Isn't that what an A is in some ways? A game of whose better at sex, loving, cuddling, the best provider of needs at first? But then the game changes when OP starts making demands, expects and wants more in return. Some As turn into a bloody game of who will finish last or who gives up first.

 

Question is how many rounds are you willing to stick around for?

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I used to think that I "lost" but part of me might be starting to see that I kind of "won" by not having to deal with his games and immaturity (at 46!). Torrance, you are absolutely right about me needing to knock him off his pedestal. I held him in such high regard and I see now that he didn't deserve it. i honestly thought for a period that he could do no wrong!:p

 

This is what I wish I could convey to the OW who come here looking for advice. MM is not the man you have built him up to be in your mind!

 

And the truth stares at every OW/OM in the face - MW/MM is lying, sneaking around, omitting truth, manipulating the truth, misrepresenting themselves and their intentions, deliberately misleading and deceiving their partner (and their children, if they have them) on a daily basis. Clearly, they are capable of doing wrong, and doing it without blinking, really, so stop holding them so high on a pedestal! Stop giving them the benefit of the doubt, enormous doubt!

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You know, truth be told, I have been both a BS and an OW, and I feel like I can say now that the OW position is worse, at least to me. I feel like a lot of people feel like I am bashing the MM because he didn't "pick" me. That's not the truth. I have put in a ton of hard work and done a lot of soul searching. I have seen ministers, doctors, and counselors. I have read books like they're going out of style. I tend to bash the MM because it has been through all of this soul-searching that I have seen the manipulation that occurred. I had (and still have) zero self-esteem, and I would often tell the xMM that I was so lucky to have him! Can you imagine that?!? I was lucky to be second best in someone's life when they were first in mine? So if to build my self-esteem back up, I need to remember the bad things about him, I will do so.

 

I know he passes the buck and never wants to look like the bad guy because HE TOLD ME THAT! He hoped and wished his W would leave him so he wouldn't look like the problem. And I guarantee you now, with that huge ego of his, that if she left him tomorrow, he would feel like it was her decision and he really wasn't to blame in the end.

 

10+ affairs. Horrible things said about his W to anyone who would listen. He doesn't know what he has or had-he just knows that the comfortable, miserable, known is less frightening than the unknown. She has my sympathy and he has my scorn.

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Smile,

 

I had (and still have) zero self-esteem,

What brought you to this point? And when did notice you had low self-esteem? Don't mean to pry. Just curious.

 

So if to build my self-esteem back up, I need to remember the bad things about him, I will do so.

Smile, this isn't the way to build self-esteem. No different than knocking someone down just to make you feel better. It's not a boxing match.

 

You build self-esteem by:

  • accepting that you are human and not perfect
  • identify your strengths/skills
  • do things that gives you pleasure and joy (painting, gardening, volunteering, etc)
  • identify your weakness and challenge each one
  • do things you would not normally do like going out dinner alone.
  • try new things.
  • new pair of shoes or a bag:)
  • get a pedicure/manicure
  • treat yourself to a spa and facials
  • update your wardrobe
  • refine your skills or add another
  • join a professional/social network in your field
  • set goals for yourself

He hoped and wished his W would leave him so he wouldn't look like the problem.

Next time he says this, ask "and then what?"

 

Horrible things said about his W to anyone who would listen. He doesn't know what he has or had-he just knows that the comfortable, miserable, known is less frightening than the unknown.

And tell us exactly why you are/were attracted to him?

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I will never understand how a woman who has been through the pain of being a bs can knowingly inflict that pain on another woman by becoming the ow. Especially to someone that was a "friend".

Cold, heartless, selfish.

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I will never understand how a woman who has been through the pain of being a bs can knowingly inflict that pain on another woman by becoming the ow. Especially to someone that was a "friend".

Cold, heartless, selfish.

Some people are void of empathy and conscience. It's all about them. Psychologists call it Narcisstic Personality Disorder.

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and I feel like I can say now that the OW position is worse, at least to me.

Both suffer alot of pain, but the difference is, one position was a choice, the other wasn't. A BS doesn't choose to be a BS - it's forced upon him/her. Being an OW/OM IS a choice and with that, it's like poking your finger into the fire..

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noforgiveness, thanks for nothing! I never said I was proud of what I did and in fact, if you read any of my previous threads, you will see that I am ashamed and embarrassed by what I did. I post on here for a way to vent, not for criticism and opinions on my personality. NewSunrise, I am not "void of empathy and conscience". I am human. I SCREW UP! It must be nice for you all to live in your little world where mistakes and consequences don't happen. I am trying to work through every day not beating myself up, and while I am doing a better job at that, I guess I can leave it to the people on this site to beat me up plenty. WWIU, I absolutely agree with you. Being the OW was my choice. I became the OW when I found out I was a BS. Doesn't make any sense, I know, but sometimes we make decisions based on anger, not reason. Thanks for stating your opinion without trying your best to make me feel like a piece of s**t.

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Smile it was my "best friend" and my husband who I found this website because of. "We", ha what a joke, were helping her through a horrible, horrible time because she was a bs going through a horrible divorce. I watched her cry. I saw day after day after day in the beginning where she could not get out of bed because of the pain of being the bs.

 

I will never, never understand how this same person who I picked up off the floor could turn around and try for my husband while he was playing the knight in shining armour for her.

 

As she is out of our lives for good, wh&*re sent her son to live with grandmom while she moved in with a new boyfriend (what a stellar parent), I sincerely hope that she does not go around thinking that my self esteem has issues as you put it. Personally I think it would be easier to skip out of a 20 year marriage than be confident enough in yourself and your husbands love to save those twenty years and work on keeping the marriage. It takes a lot of self esteem to take a man who has cheated back. It takes a lot of self esteem to say to family and friends after this nightmare I am worth it, he is worth it, and our marriage is worth it, not to let a fling with something new and different ruin it. I know my self worth and it is no less for saving my marriage it is more.

 

I can not imagine the level of self esteem it must take to be with someones husband though. To be with a man who you know for a fact goes home to another woman every night. Maybe that is why many bs's become ow. They didn't have the self esteem to fight for their marriage and didn't believe their self worth and believed they were only worth some man's crumbs.

 

I took your post that bs's who take the husbands back have low self esteem as an extreme insult and I believe you meant it that way. I hope each and every day the ow in my case is in 100x more pain than you are in. She knew the pain, she went in with her eyes wide open. She deserves the pain.

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Furthermore it takes a hell of a lot of self esteem to understand that the affair was not about you and what was lacking but about him and what he was lacking in himself.

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Both suffer alot of pain, but the difference is, one position was a choice, the other wasn't. A BS doesn't choose to be a BS - it's forced upon him/her. Being an OW/OM IS a choice and with that, it's like poking your finger into the fire..

Amen!!!:bunny:

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First of all, not that it matters, but we were not "friends". I knew who she was and she knew who I was. A silly point to make, but one I feel is valid. I didn't want to fight for my emotionally abusive, loveless marriage. Getting a divorce was the best decision I ever made and I don't regret for one minute.

 

I know that I have low self-esteem. I've said it about 100 times on here. I am working on that issue. Yes, I was at the point where I believed that I was only worth some married man's crumbs of attention.

 

My post was NOT about insulting the BS. If I wanted to insult her, I would try to continue the A. I wouldn't be 27 days of NC with her H, who works down the hall from me. I avoid him at all costs-the one thing that keeps me NC EVERY DAY is the thought that I do not want to spend one more second as a damaging factor in her marriage. What I meant was that it took me going NC and really seeing our R for what it was to realize that the xMM doesn't treat anyone well-I have seen that with my own eyes with co-workers, friends, and his W. I don't know why I thought I would be different-maybe I didn't care if I was. I wanted someone, anyone, to pay attention to me. And that's how it went. As someone who was a BS, I KNOW there is a period (however brief) where your self-esteem takes a hit.

 

I hope they do whatever is necessary to fix their marriage. But I hope that during the process, his W realizes her own self-worth because that is the best thing that can happen to anyone. I am sorry about your situation, noforgiveness, but I really believe at the end of the day that most A's are about what is lacking in the WS, not what is lacking in the BS or the OW. I don't know that I will be posting on here for awhile-I don't mind hearing people's opinions but I'm getting to the point where I feel like I'm being attacked and taking the brunt for other people's sins. I won't take responsibility for anyone else's actions but my own-other OW, you are on your own. It takes too much of my time to defend myself on here. I will find support and insight elsewhere.

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Smile,

 

Keep in mind you are on a public forum, and a very sensitive topic. Expect you'll get hit from all sides. You take the good with the bad. That's life. For most, it's not what you want to hear. But there are also a lot of valuable lessons in them. How you take each one is entirely up to you. And part of obtaining self-esteem is learning to take critcisms with a grain of salt and apply them constructively.

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Smile, it would be a shame for you to leave just because afew posters are upsetting you. Focus on the helpful and supportive advice..And if certain posters still get to you, put them on ignore. there's a function to do that in your profile.

 

SR is right, LS is an open forum with all sorts of people with opinions..

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It's weird to think this, but sometimes it's like the only one who could really understand my feelings of hurt and betrayal by the MM is his W. I don't mean that in a disrespectful way.

 

 

A natural feeling. You have a common bond with this woman (obviously).

You want to use her as your kind of mirror. You want to converse with her about him. Because lets face it, she knows him well - maybe (probably) better than you.

 

I can understand that - but obviously you know that it's not an option. She doesn't want to sit there with a cup of tea listing to your tales of hurt and betrayal.

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at the end of the day that most A's are about what is lacking in the WS, not what is lacking in the BS or the OW. .

 

HERE HERE (applause) :) That sounds exactly right to me!!

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I will never understand how a woman who has been through the pain of being a bs can knowingly inflict that pain on another woman by becoming the ow. Especially to someone that was a "friend".

Cold, heartless, selfish.

 

 

Back up the love bus a little! Have you been on both sides?

 

I was a Betrayed Spouse. During the total of 4 years we were married, he had been with her for 2 - and beat the hell out of me regularly.

 

After I left in Feb this year - I find myself having an affair with a work colleague who is engaged.

 

I think the reason why it happened (in hindsight) was because I was so damaged by my failed marriage and his cheating and abuse that I subconsciously got involved with someone who was, for the most part, un-obtainable. I had the short term self satisfaction for myself (ie; the sex which made me feel great, beautiful, wanted) without all that "scary stuff" - the home life, the fact that I was somehow tied to this man. It was a sub-conscious defense. He couldn't hurt me because all we had were stolen moments. Not long enough to forge any danger.

 

It was a knee jerk reaction to a series of situations that are all connected. Does that make it right? Absolutely not. But here it is - an explanation for you to try and wrap your head around.

 

In short: Don't pass judgement, it's not becoming.

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You know, truth be told, I have been both a BS and an OW, and I feel like I can say now that the OW position is worse, at least to me.

 

 

Wow, I feel the opposite. When I found out about my xH's OW, I was mortified. It immediately put this massive microscope on me - what's wrong with me, am I not slim enough, pretty enough, clever enough, smart enough, sexy enough?? Absolute mental torture. The fact he would be home at night meant very little to me at the time. I was too busy concentrating on what was wrong with me.

 

Now, as an OW (who is trying to give it up), I would feel sexier, smarter, funnier - and all the things he desires. You have this extra bond because its all conducted under a cloak and dagger environment....smoke and mirrors.....your dirty, special, little secret. Its like being part of an exclusive club; membership = you & him. Except its safer for you.

 

I'm only 6 months in mind, hence the heady notion of what *it* was. If it were to go on for a few years, I probably would feel different. More involved. More in love. And therefore more in pain when he never left the marriage. Afterall - they rarely do.

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were helping her through a horrible, horrible time because she was a bs going through a horrible divorce. I watched her cry. I saw day after day after day in the beginning where she could not get out of bed because of the pain of being the bs.

 

I will never, never understand how this same person who I picked up off the floor could turn around and try for my husband while he was playing the knight in shining armour for her.

 

 

You said it right there.

 

I am not condoning what she did, because it was downright deplorable.

 

HOWEVER - you do need to come to grips with the fact that she is obviously out of her skull right now. Her faith and trust in men has been shattered through, what you say, was a "horrible horrible time".

 

Somewhere, deep down inside, she has got it into her subconscious mind that "man+affection=love". Your husband showed her compassion and caring and she has, in her turmultuous state, turned it into something else.

 

I think in this case, she can plead insanity. I hope that she will regret it for the rest of her life, no doubt she will - but do try and understand it for what it is.

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