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Communications with BS


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There have been a number of threads recently about OP "telling" BS what their CS is really like what has happened or what they feel she should know. It seems to be a misplaced sense of entitlement and control.

 

Its something I dont understand. Whether its done out of anger, a sense of betrayal. It makes no sense to me. It seems that all that anger should be placed at the feet of the CS not the BS. If and why they choose to stay together seems to me to be none of the OPs business. Or if it is its information that should be obtained from the CS if the CS chooses to disclose it.

 

Those who say they do it because they feel the BS needs to know the truth should think again - you didnt feel that need when you were in bed with the CS did you?

 

In all these case the CS chose to stay with the marriage it seems to me at that point you vote with your feet. If you dont like it you move on. You dont hurt innocent people. (and I am not talking about LF's situation where she was contacted)

 

Maybe someone can explain it.

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torranceshipman

I can explain it...simply put, some people think in a different way to you (if we all thought the same the world would be very boring, right?). Many people do NOT view it as revenge, as you do, and many DID care very mich during the A that someone might be getting lied to or hurt.

 

It can simply be honesty and a respect for the BW. Remember that in many cases the MM might have actually hid the M, or be faking a D, to get the OW into their life. The OW finds this out and bam, she extricates herself (maybe slower than she should, but a lot of MMs gaslight and use emotional blackmail to the extreme-not an excuse but it happens)...then, she's out and free and wants to warn the woman still with the sleazebag that he is, in fact, a sleazebag. You know why? Because that BW could do a whole lot better and someone needs to show her respect in the situation and tell her what happened. Then she can make her own decisions.

 

Of course theres always the mean ones with bad intentions, wanting another to suffer, but a LOT of OW would feel the way I've explained in this post. As for me...I am 100% for honesty so I am in favour of people being told the truth as long as it is done in a sensitive way.

 

And a final point - A's only thrive because of secrecy. Bring it out in the open and people instantly become accountable: let people know sleazy thinga like A's wont be tolerated in a culture of silence and I guarantee there's be a lot less lying cake eaters and A's in the world, and a lot less miserable people on this board!!:laugh:

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I understand your point TS - and I think most people in As dont want anyone to get hurt. I know I didnt. But the more recent posts seem to involve people who are acting out of revenge.

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I think there is actually manipulation going on. I have some experience here. I am OW. I have sometimes been tempted to let BW in on what is going on- when I am having a bad day and getting frustrated at delay in D.

In my case we have been together 4 years. When we met I was separated and was sold the line " I am unhappy in my marriage. Have been for some time, but because I work away it has not really impacted on me- we each do our own thing, but when I am next in the states - where BW lives- I will tell her."

In meantime I have divorced. He has prevaricated- says he will pay less alimony if he waits til the children have left home; wife draws pension etc. ( he is 62; she 61)

He tells me his D has nothing to do with me- that his marriage was over before we met and he will not be hurried. so sometimes I reckon if she knew, then she would commence D.

But I don't tell. I think I would push him away. And if she wanted to find out, it would not be hard- we have spent the last 3 Xmases together- she has never once visited him in the 2.5 years he has been working in greece. so I guess she does not want to know

And as we are not in a postiion to live together until my children have left home it does not really affect anything except my confidence in his promises. I feel annoyed that he puts finances first but he is also worried about losing his good relationship with his sons aged 26 and 28 and i respect him for that.

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I think there is actually manipulation going on. I have some experience here. I am OW. I have sometimes been tempted to let BW in on what is going on- when I am having a bad day and getting frustrated at delay in D.

In my case we have been together 4 years. When we met I was separated and was sold the line " I am unhappy in my marriage. Have been for some time, but because I work away it has not really impacted on me- we each do our own thing, but when I am next in the states - where BW lives- I will tell her."

In meantime I have divorced. He has prevaricated- says he will pay less alimony if he waits til the children have left home; wife draws pension etc. ( he is 62; she 61)

He tells me his D has nothing to do with me- that his marriage was over before we met and he will not be hurried. so sometimes I reckon if she knew, then she would commence D.

But I don't tell. I think I would push him away. And if she wanted to find out, it would not be hard- we have spent the last 3 Xmases together- she has never once visited him in the 2.5 years he has been working in greece. so I guess she does not want to know

And as we are not in a postiion to live together until my children have left home it does not really affect anything except my confidence in his promises. I feel annoyed that he puts finances first but he is also worried about losing his good relationship with his sons aged 26 and 28 and i respect him for that.

 

 

I was the OW also. Your situation is far different than others who spill the beans to the BS in anger and hurt when they dont get their way. How awful it must be to be the BS and to hear it from the OW.

 

In your situation her knowing could actually hurt his divorce make it nastier etc but if he is not rushed that is not a great sign. Tough call. She is nearing pension age so he would only have to pay more for a few years. And then he will have the argument that if he waits unti 70 and a half he pays less.... Much different situation.

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As the OW I think you have the least right to make that decision. You werent tricked into the A you knew he was married. So in my view you dont have the right to then decide to end it by telling his wife. Its not your marriage. Youre no girl scout Dylanatlanta no matter how you try to reframe it

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SOme people wouldnt want to know. They may have a suspicion but they dont want to know. Or in some cases the Hs cheat but the marriage is working for them as a couple. People who are happy in their marriages dont cheat. But that doesnt mean either spouse is ready to end it.

 

You dont know her. You dont know what her concerns are or what her feelings are about this. She probably knows something was up and is happy when he is being attentive. To be told by the OW adds insult to injury. If W is happy enough continuing along in the M bad as it may seem to the OW thats the W's decision. You may feel you want to know but you dont leave the W an out when you make that decision for them. Some people might feel they have to leave if there is an A and would prefer to be an ostrich.

 

It just seems odd to me to characterize yourself as doing a good deed when you were the one who participated in the betrayal in the first place - it takes 2 to have an A. The W is not your priest. She seems like the wrong person to confess to. You want to end it? Dont take his calls. Block his emails. Dont hurt someone else.

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thanks for that input. Yes that is precisely what I am afraid of. That it will be years.

at present it makes no difference- I am committed to be here with my sons for another year at least. I think the pension starts in March.

Once I am able, my plan is to take a sabbatical year, as a trial - not to give up my job in the UK initially. I would rethink this if he has not started proceedings by then.

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I didn't make a decision for her, I made a decision for me, she asked the questions as she has done before & on all 3 occasions I have answered her honestly, my sister asked her if she wanted to know & she said yes & thank you for telling her the truth. If she didn't want to know then she wouldn't have asked.

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there is an element of truth in that.- in other threads it is very clear that people would rather hang on to an imperfect marriage than not be married- either for their self esteem; the sake of the children or whatever.

 

The point is that we as OWs do not have the right to make that decision.

What ever we might tell ourselves, telling BW is selfish on our parts.

 

In your case the outcome might have been for the best, but that does not mean the motive was pure.

In my case MM says he is sure that W "knows" but does not want to ask the q. He does go to the US a couple of times a year- and is there for thanksgiving, but that is the only pretense he makes that they have a relationship. I know he does not acknowledge her birthday- he did not even go see her when she was in hospital last year for an op. So she has every grounds for D even without knowing about the A. So my guess is she really does not want to know and it would be wrong of me to tell her.

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Cyber if you want him to move more quickly I think you are best off discussing it with him much as you probably want to just sit down with her and say look what do we need to do to move this forward.

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So I have to get this straight - what you are saying is what you don't know can't hurt you!!!!

 

 

What she doesn't know can hurt her. If he was cheating with you, he could have easily been with someone else. That means exposure to whatever anyone else has. Condoms don't always work, if they are used at all.

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It just seems odd to me to characterize yourself as doing a good deed when you were the one who participated in the betrayal in the first place - it takes 2 to have an A.

Amen.

 

Reading various examples here, most of the stories of OW's telling seem to fall under one or more of these motives:

  • Competiveness, such as when the OW points out how she gets more from the MJ. More truth, more sex, more romance (that horribly cruel comment about the hot chocolate in the bathtub comes to mind.)
  • Revenge, either to get the MM in trouble or to punish her for taking him back.
  • Guilt, wanting to come clean in a selfish way, not out of wanting to help the W or marriage heal.

I haven't been confronted by my MM's STBXW, but if she came to me wanting info, I would tell her what she wants to know. No more, and no less. But I can't think of one unselfish reason to go to her, unless MM was doing something life threatening.

 

It's not all black and white, and the truth can be healing. But I agree with you jj, that much of the time the OW's seem to have a dirty motivation that they try to hide under a banner of "truth," when they aren't acting virtuous at all.

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There have been a number of threads recently about OP "telling" BS what their CS is really like what has happened or what they feel she should know. It seems to be a misplaced sense of entitlement and control.

 

 

I think there are many different motivations for wanting to tell the BW. Torrance cited one; I think the issue of "control" is another.

 

While for me, a A allowed me far more control and agency than any other R, I get the sense from many of these threads that that's not how it is for many OW. Many OW feel disempowered and helpless in As, as if the agency rests entirely with the MM and they're utterly dependent on him for what happens, if anything, and when it happens. This can't be a good place to be, and certainly is not sustainable in the long term if one wishes to retain one's sense of selfworth.

 

For these kinds of situations, leaving the A may be the only exercising of agency open to the OW. She can't control the A, she can't control the MM, but she can control her participation in it. For OW in that situation, the consideration that she could perhaps influence - or even determine - the outcome by leveraging a different dynamic, could become very appealing. For someone who finds themself - or feels themself - completely lacking in power, then the power to influence matters by bringing in the BW could be a powerful antidote to the depression and dispair that such chronic disempowerment leads to. Yes, it may be long-term destructive or manipulative or any of a myriad negatives one could hurl at it - but short term, it offers a way of impacting a situation in which previously the OW felt powerless. And, for the mental health of the OW in short-term, immediate terms, that's perhaps psychologically "necessary". She's getting out of the pit of dispair by doing something.

 

So yes, perhaps it is about control, in some cases. It might not be pretty, and it might not be wise longer term, but taking the action at the time might be the kick-start an OW in that position needs to help her get things back on track and take control of her life once more.

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thank you, Owoman- I think that is a fair and accurate summation of the debate- and personally helpful.

I also agree that your point about powerlessness is spot on. Though I think that some people reclaim their power in more postive ways, while others try to do it destructively.

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I also agree that your point about powerlessness is spot on. Though I think that some people reclaim their power in more postive ways, while others try to do it destructively.

 

And Amen to that. My point exactly.

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What she doesn't know can hurt her. If he was cheating with you, he could have easily been with someone else. That means exposure to whatever anyone else has. Condoms don't always work, if they are used at all.

 

BNB you have a point but if she was concerned about Ws risk of STDs she wouldnt have slept with her husband, she would have told the wife right away.

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I think there's the standard confusion here on what the REAL source of the "hurt" is.

 

Its NOT being told.

 

Its the affair ITSELF that's the source of the pain. Once the affair started...'hurting' the BS was inevitable...unavoidable. That "hurt" has already occurred....the only difference is, the BS who hasn't been told just doesn't know its coming yet.

 

You're not "sparing her pain" by not telling her. If that was your goal...you shouldn't have slept with her husband.

 

Telling her doesn't "hurt" her...it makes her aware of the affair...which is the REAL source of pain.

 

Not telling because you don't want to hurt her is an emotional copout. The damage is DONE. The damage was done by the affair...its just a matter of WHEN she'll find out at this point.

 

See the difference?

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Owl there are ways of telling including romantic details that can only hurt is a long way away from apologizing for hurt caused and telling of the fact that there was an A.

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I would agree that the INTENT behind telling is important...

 

If your goal is just to inflict pain, or if your goal is to tell the BS in the hopes that they'll leave their spouse so that you "win" them...obviously there's some malicious (from the BS's perspective at least) intent.

 

As far as the details...give details to the degree that the BS asks for...if they want to know all those details, there's nothing wrong with answering their questions honestly and openly.

 

Remember...the greatest hurt to them is the DECEPTION that was carried on behind their back. Most of the time...getting the truth, while painful, is what they crave the most.

 

If they don't want those details, but you INSIST on telling them, that goes back into the "intent" issue above...WHY do you insist they know?

 

Again...its not the "telling" that's the source of the pain...its the affair itself. HOW you deliver the news can add or detract to some degree to that pain....but at the end of the day, they'll be more angry at you for sleeping with their spouse than they will be for you telling them the truth.

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Well I am growing to throw myself to the wolves :) please bite gently.

 

I told MW's partner this last spring about the A. I actually tried once, and failed, then did it the second time two weeks later. I was under extreme emotional stress. I have quit a job, failed a class, tried to date someone esle, which made MW very jealous, and so all of a sudden she was around all the time. I was miserable with the affair and very depressed. I was drinking constantly, almost daily ( I no longer drink at all BTW)

I also hadn't seen my son in 2 months due to job that I quit. I felt trapped. MW and I had discussed what would happen if I ever betrayed her trust, I was under the impression that I would NEVER hear from her again if I did so. So to end the affair, because I felt so helpless, I had tried to end it soooooo many times, and she would always come to me crying and distaught, and I would be hurting badly too, so we would reconcile.

 

I called MW's partner and told her. I tried to tell myself that it was because I would want to know if I were in her position, but that was only part of it. Mostly it was because I had allowed myself to reach a very horrible place mentally and emotionally and it was the only way I could see out.

 

I have to agree that some BS dont' want to know. The one in my situation sure doesn't. She basically transfered all of her anger at the what happened to me, smeared me all over town. Not as a mistress, but as a psycho stalker, despite the fact that MW told her everything.

Since I moved back, most people have come to me and asked me what happened, I just say that it is personal business.

 

Due to MW not hating me for what I did, we have continued the affair, although it was long distance phone affair for several months.

NOW someone else has writtten BS a letter saying that they have seen MW and I together. BS came home, confronted MW and basically thinks that I wrote the letter to try and break them up, she doesn't think A continued.

 

BS, to me, doesn't want to know. All she would have had to do was hide the letter for one day and seeus together the next.

 

So after writing a friggin book again. . .

 

I think the the trouble with 'telling' is that it rarely comes from a healthy place. And some BS's don't want to know.

I know that when I was the BS years ago, I wanted to know everything. OW and I had long discussions, and actually evenually became friends who are still in touch today.

 

just to add my 99 cents ;)

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